DNC, Day #4…Scot Ross…Ben Wikler…Bill Clinton…Ken Weber…Rick Smith

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Now live from the civic media studios in Madison, Wisconsin

where the political party is just beginning,

welcome to the devil's advocates radio show.

Friends proving it's never personal, only politics.

These allow me to introduce myself.

And now here's your host, Dom and Crout.

Welcome to the devil's advocates radio show

DNC Day 4 Thursday, Kamala Harris' Day.

Devil's advocates day, welcome, Dom.

Crouty, good to be with you once again

in Chicago, beautiful day down here

in a wonderful, wonderful event last night.

The party went on all night

and it's gonna be another big one tonight.

And we got one of our party and buddies, Scott Ross,

right from the top, Wisconsin's own trash,

tweeting, Jim and I, Fred Vars.

Mr. Ethics, the boy you love to hate.

Stay for, where's our fourth horseman?

I don't know what's happened, you know?

Who's it gonna be?

Where's the fourth horseman for here, for us?

Oh, you know, I'm going old school wrestling,

but that's okay.

I guess I'm enjoying the day.

So far, so good, but we're just getting started.

Scott Ross, last night, we were promised.

A tremendous, really big surprise guest.

And she came in the Oprah Winfrey package man.

We promised she on the air and we delivered.

But Scott Ross, we're promised a bigger guest

than Oprah Winfrey at the DNC today.

Who's bigger than Oprah?

Who's gonna be the big special guest?

I mean, a lot of people are speculating, right?

We've got, you know, pink performing,

the Dixie Chicks performing, you know,

the two biggest ones I heard are Taylor Swift and Beyoncé.

But I'm here to tell you guests

who I think the surprise guest is tonight at the RNC.

You ready?

Is it, are at DNC?

Melania Trump.

That, that would bring the whole story.

I think if anybody can deliver Melania Trump

to the DNC, it's Ben Wickliffe, the dem party chair.

For sure.

Make it happen, make it.

I heard it was gonna be the late great doctor,

Hannibal Lecter.

There you go, you know.

You know, will they roll him out on a dolly with the mask on?

You know, that would be good.

You know, just, yes, that would be very good.

It would be the perfect place where he could say,

and Senator, love the suit.

And there'd be like, you know, 51 senators.

Our friend Scott Ross here at the DNC table

at the United Center, Scott, how's the party been for you so far?

I have had an extraordinarily good time.

Got to catch up with some people I know from Wisconsin,

but also around the country.

I've got to talk to fine people like yourselves

about, you know, how I see things going.

So it's been terrific.

Without a doubt, I've had a great time.

And we, you know, I know that I, you don't have a lot of time

for me, but I'm glad that I was able to stop by

and say, hey, I've got a couple other things to do.

So, you know, glad to tell your listeners,

your loyal listeners, who's gonna be the,

the special guest tonight?

It's a Lania Trump.

It's gonna bring the house down.

I love that.

Scott Ross, love you brother and now we got to say goodbye

because we were looking for the Tully Blanchard

and he is shown.

So see you guys later.

Scott, thank you so much, man.

We welcome another fine guest right here at the DNC table.

Ben Wickler, the fine democratic party chairman

of the great state of Wisconsin will let him

recombobulate for just a moment.

Ben, the recombobulation is complete.

Good to see you, man.

Welcome back, man.

Good to see you, man.

He is on his horse, is Bill Clinton right now.

You know, a democratic convention is not a place

to conserve your voice.

It's a place to use your voice.

It's like Tim Walz's theory of government.

You build political capital to use it

to make people's lives better.

Amen, brother.

I thought you were gonna say you're gonna sleep

when you're dead.

Well, that's the other thing.

Yeah, that's my other piece of advice.

But I just heard some misinformation on the air.

Lania Trump, as a special guest,

I think it's actually the ghost of Fred Trump,

who's gonna come down and then look directly

in the camera and tell Donald Trump

that he'll never be good enough.

And that he needs to be even more mean

to the people around him in order to prove to his dad

that he can be as mean as his dad was to him.

I think that that's what we're,

we're likely to see.

Perhaps Fred will rise up from hell.

From the lower, the lower, yes, the lower chamber.

More, more personal insults.

Trump's new campaign reset.

Ben, last night, the rollout of the vice presidential nominee,

Tim Walls, this guy, I mean, he is a very midwestern guy.

He seemingly, isn't every man sort of character.

And this is not what we typically,

typically get at the highest level of the ticket.

Ben, how have you liked this selection so far?

I have been blown away.

Tim Walls makes you want to be a better person.

Yeah.

He as a dad, he makes you want to be a better dad.

He makes you want to be a better neighbor.

That like having someone likes him Walls,

the kind of person that as a person,

everyone says, I wish people like that would run for office.

Why can't we put that guy into high office?

And here he is running.

He's going to be our vice president.

It's just amazing.

And I think it speaks to Kamala Harris and her judgment,

because there was a huge amount of press coverage about,

you know, she should pick this person to that person,

strategically, dad, dad, dad, dad.

And she went with a choice that speaks to America's heart and soul.

You know, somebody who just inspires everyone

to be the best sales has this huge reserve of energy.

There's a kind of person that, just about everyone

in Wisconsin knows and loves someone like that.

Yeah.

And I think it speaks to who she is as well.

She's somebody who has a deep understanding

of what actually makes communities tick,

what helps people to thrive.

And it does, it does involve joy.

It involves care.

It involves the kind of combination of toughness and fairness

and love that makes a coach great.

And it makes a leader great.

And I think it makes this take it great.

Ben Wickler, our fine guest, democratic party of Wisconsin

shared before we look ahead to this evening's event.

Let's talk about the Wisconsin roll call, the entire roll call.

And we were doing the broadcast for WCPT

and we were simul casting the walls comments in Milwaukee.

And then we took the roll call along with everybody else at the DNC.

And it was a hell of an event.

Tony had a little moment.

But I think it almost added to the charm of the event.

Don't you think we love Tony and we love Tony and he's great.

We have a governor who is a real human being.

And he had a wave of happiness and excitement.

And you know, who wouldn't have that in that moment?

This was not, this was not slick.

This was human.

And that is part of what makes this whole convention great,

in my view.

It was so much fun.

You know, I was right there next to him

with the whole crowd of all the Wisconsin delegates.

The interviewees has done cheering and shouting

is so fired up and excited.

We went through our sports teams.

Jump around with the white team.

Oh my god, what a party.

What a party.

And that energy, I think, is fueling this wave of people

signing up here at 42.

Since the hairs became the nominee, 42,000 people

signed up to volunteer for this ticket

in the state of Wisconsin.

That's amazing.

That's more than just in Wisconsin.

Yeah, just in Wisconsin.

That's one of the twice-pinds of margin of victory.

Just in volunteers.

It's just unreal.

And that's the kind of enthusiasm that you can see

in that roll call.

We'll also never forget that moment with Georgia

when little John came out and just turned over.

Yeah.

And everyone just lost their minds.

I mean, politics is supposed to be fun.

Let's let it be fun for once.

Good god.

I cannot imagine how they were possibly going to top Tuesday.

It was the biggest political spectacle

I've seen in my lifetime, Ben, of the speakers

you've seen so far.

Who has been most inspiring to you?

I mean, Tim Walls and Michelle Obama.

Those are the two the most.

But so many have been so good.

I keep coming back to those two moments.

And I think for both of them, there

were kind of moments that transcended politics.

They actually spoke to this basic questions

of who we want to be as people, as a country in our communities.

The way that they kind of reached out to voters,

people who are cynical about politics,

people who don't want to think about politics,

find the whole thing stressful, and ask them to really

like listen to their best selves about how

they want to show up in the world and what kind of country

we should build.

That was an invitation to go beyond just partisan

bickering and partisan bickering is part of life.

But there's something deeper than that at work here.

And I think you could really hear it.

And those two speeches, especially,

you also heard that in Oprah's.

You heard that in Barack Obama's.

You heard that in a number of different moments.

But those two speeches, I think those

will stand the test of time as the way

that you can communicate at a higher and deeper level

at the same time.

Folks, you're listening to the Devil's Advocates Radio Show

Ben Wickler, chair of the Democratic Party,

the great state of Wisconsin at the table

where there's been always a pleasure,

great job in Wisconsin, and we really

appreciate having you in our state.

The values and character, these kinds of concepts

that we keep hearing about of freedom,

taking back, I think some of the mantles

that the Republicans have stolen

and Democrats have not fought for.

I think it's a great contrast.

And one thing that's really stuck out to me, Ben,

is the strength of the bench.

I mean, somebody's speaking to you.

It is, and I'm comparing to obviously the mega

and what happened in Milwaukee with the RNC,

but the bench just seems so strong to me, Ben.

There's so many great Democrats leading in states

across the country and in the US House and the US Senate.

I mean, it is just awe-inspiring.

And I think it represents the fruition of this idea

that President Biden once referred to almost casually

about being a bridge to the next generation.

We see that generation on display here.

It's gotta be tough to be trumped

because he was casting about, and it was like,

do I go with Doug Burgham?

Where do I go with JD Vance?

I guess I go with JD Vance.

So it's like, who cares?

Don't look for the white president.

Any way since his attitude, but it's also a luck shot.

Oh my God, the future looks really bright right now.

I think people have a sense of letting themselves hope,

let them themselves dream about what's possible.

And if you think about what happens,

if we win these House and Senate races

and the presidency this spring,

in the course of this spring, we could pass the pro-act

and write to work laws and restore the right

to organize for unions in every corner of the country.

We could pass the freedom to vote

and John Lewis Voting Rights Act

and partisan gerrymandering and voter suppression,

nationwide override all these terrible laws of Wisconsin,

and we could pass Tammy Baldwin's Women's Health Protection Act

and end the abortion vans that cover a third of the women

in this country, and for 451 days took away rights

from all the women in Wisconsin.

All those things could happen in less than a year.

We could be next August looking back

at the most productive first six months

of an administration in American history.

And it's also like coming off this Biden administration

who got a lot of things down.

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, it's just, it is so wild to think about

the way that we've set the table as a party

to really deliver change.

No, Ben, when you talk about those sounds

like very specific issues and things

that we want to try to get done,

the criticism from the Meg is,

oh, we're almost talking policy,

we're almost talking issues.

They're all just being mean to Donald Trump.

What's your response to that attitude?

That is whining, complaining, preposterous nonsense.

It was what Oprah said.

Where there's a choice between common sense and nonsense.

Right.

These Republicans, I mean,

Trump is still blathering about how he's gonna unveil

his big health plan one day.

Two weeks, the guy tried to overturn the Affordable Care Act

with no alternative,

and how many years later, seven years later,

still hasn't shown us one ayoda of an idea

of a figment of his imagination

about how you'd actually get coverage back

to the tens of millions of people

that he wanted to take it away from.

These guys, Trump's idea of an economic policy

is to wave at box of Cheeros and say,

no one thought about Cheeros for years.

I mean, give me a break.

They're like $100 a pound, no.

No.

Kamala Harris has the biggest speech

in her political career.

Last 30 seconds, Ben Wickler,

what do you think we can expect tonight?

I think the most important thing,

is to reach the voters who are just tuning in

for the first time, tell her story.

Be herself.

Show us who she is, who she's for, why she's doing this,

and when she does that, that makes the case.

You better save some of that voice

for the screaming tonight.

The celebrating Ben Wickler Democratic Party Chair

great city, Wisconsin.

We are the devil's advocates,

live at the DNC day four, it's Kamala's day.

Come on back more at the table.

Thanks, Ben.

Thanks, Emorski.

I ate his liver with some father beans and a nice candy.

When they go low, we get high.

The devil's advocates.

And we are back from the four 20 break.

Thank you for listening to the devil's advocates.

Radio show on the road in Chicago DNC,

the final night we're taking you with us.

You can also join on the lines at 844-967-2789.

And thank you to a couple of fine guests.

Thank you, Democratic Party Wisconsin Chair Ben Wickler.

He has definitely been a man on a mission here in Chicago.

So we'll get, so we'll get Ben to last.

Also, Scott Ross, our buddy, got the short shift.

Sorry, sorry, we love Scott, man.

That's just the way it goes here on the radio.

You know, you know how the media thing works, man.

In and out comes and goes, things, you set them up.

When you come down these kinds of things,

you get lots of politicians and lots of friends

walking around doing the thing.

You make plans, the best late plans,

and sometimes they don't work out, but you roll with it, man.

The good news is, man, everyone's in a good mood.

Crudy, everybody is in a good mood.

Did you see how helpful I've been?

And you know, I'm really a helpful guy, not ever.

Okay, most people are in a good mood.

You know, some of the people that I'm producing this thing

is they've been working some long hours,

but I still seem smiling.

Joe Weinbergs, we all know her.

She's summing up a legal ego.

She's way back here by us looking for the other location

we actually produce, and we will be at later WCBT's location.

A little closer to the bowl, and I said, no problem.

She's like, I gotta be on the air at four,

and I'm thinking, so do I.

But I walked you all the way through

back to the WCBT.

And very grace, gracious woman.

She said, well, if you guys are here all night,

maybe I could help you.

So I've got her contact.

We'll see if Joe Weinbergs can join us for the evening coverage,

because we're gonna take you all the way through

right here on Civic Media.

You can listen on your local station,

but the coverage continues with us at seven o'clock,

all the way until the end of Kamala Harris' speech,

maybe a little wrap up at the end, not too long though,

because this place is like a zoo when these events are done.

There's 20,000 inside the room,

and like 30,000 outside the room.

It's kind of a big deal this DNC.

So anyways, we're enjoying ourselves.

We've got our buddy in labor, Rick Smith,

joining us a little bit later in the show.

We've got someone coming over from the human rights campaign

at the five o'clock happier, happy hour.

Let me just make sure I'm getting everyone acknowledged here,

Don, but last night, let's talk about last night

for just a minute, as I find my bookings list here.

Good thing I don't take notes.

This is what he had one time.

It's in my phone, it's in my phone.

Elizabeth Warren at the Wisconsin delegation,

breakfast this morning.

And how was it?

Did you go?

I did not.

Yeah, one's gritty.

I made it to one breakfast this week.

I'm not a breakfast guy.

You know, I usually don't eat till lunch, damn.

We've been eating breakfast food for lunch.

Yeah, but usually it's like two o'clock in the afternoon.

Folks, you're listening to The Devil's Advocates.

Let's get to some of the sound-riched

doing the hard work for us.

Let's start at the bottom, Bill Clinton.

He had, although certainly not the most energetic speech,

and the guy's getting older, some very good burns

on the former guy.

This was one of my favorites.

If you would please, let's start with cut number 15,

the former president.

The personal vanity I want to assort is I am still younger

than Donald Trump.

Don't put in now 78.

He had a birthday three days ago.

Happy birthday, Bill still, younger than Donald Trump.

Rough, the voice sounded pretty rough,

but he stepped up, and apparently,

I heard that he was kind of stopping on his own speech,

kind of went off script a little bit.

He tore up his speech and started over during the convention.

Apparently, he wanted to recast the speech,

because he was so inspired by some of the earlier speakers.

That was my understanding.

Bill didn't consult with me.

Let's keep going on.

Bill Clinton cut number 16.

She said that it, and this meant a lot to me,

that she would protect everybody's right to vote.

Whether or not they voted for her.

They were a citizen, and they deserve the right to vote.

Well, there's a fun concept.

Everyone, as citizens, has the right to vote.

More people did.

Maybe we wouldn't have a guy like Donald Trump.

You know, they talk about the president.

The lack of policy, at least that's what they're talking about

on the Foxy news, of course.

No policy, just happy people.

Well, my understanding the Harris Walls policy,

one of the first things they want to do

is what Bill Clinton was just talking about.

And also, there's what this proposal

to reduce the cost of housing.

I mean, there are several protecting the right to vote.

Is the priority of the Harris administration,

their first legislative priority.

That's what they would roll out first.

And there's a reason why Bill Clinton's referencing it.

The freedom to actually be able to exercise

your constitutional rights, what a quaint notion.

Come on.

How naive, Crudy.

Let's keep going.

Again, another big rip on the former guy

by the other former guy, Bill Clinton

talking about Donald Trump, count the lies.

Cut seven.

The next time you hear him, don't count the lies.

Count the eyes.

How the eye is indebted, is vengeance, is complaints,

is conspiracies.

Count the eyes, of course, again, very, very simple,

but a great focus on how self centered

and self serving Trump is.

And Clinton did contrast that she said he, pardon me,

said, Kamala Harris is going to be about you, you, you.

Bill Clinton, the last night, be the little self

deprecating talk about the McDonald's cut number 18,

please, right?

This was a good one.

Be so happy when she actually enters the White House

as president, because she will break my record

as the president spent the most time at McDonald's.

And then at the end of here, Bill Clinton made a statement.

He said he tripled checked it.

And the fact checkers have come out.

So listen closely.

What a record he's described in the contrast

between Democratic policies and Republican policies.

Play Bill Clinton.

You're going to have a hard time believing this,

but so help me believe it.

Triple checked it.

Since the end of the Cold War in 1989,

America has created about 51 million new jobs.

I swear, I checked this three times.

Even I couldn't believe it.

What's the score?

Democrats 50 Republicans won.

Wow.

What?

What is the job created under Democratic administrations?

One million net jobs created since the Cold War,

since 1989, by all combined Republican administrations.

50 to one.

Oh no, Trump's the guy that's going to be.

When they go low, we get high.

The devil's advocates.

Book back to the devil's advocates.

Radio show live on the road.

The occasion, the DNC Chicago, Illinois,

we're at the United Center.

We've had another fine guest who's joined us here at the table.

He is Ken Weber, author of a book, Branding Democrats,

atop the bottom, reimagining of campaign strategies.

Ken, very nice to meet you.

Hey, it's great to be here, sir.

Good.

Thank you very much for allowing me to sit in with you.

Well, we appreciate mutual friend,

Congressman Mark Polkin introduced us.

Mark Polkin is one of my best friends.

He's the one who actually got me the passes for every day.

Nice.

I'm a New Yorker.

He's not, but he knows I'm active in Democratic politics

and helping Democrats do better.

Well, Ken, let me ask you.

Didn't the Democratic Party turn their messaging

on its ear about a month ago?

They, yes, yes, but the reason the book

is called Branding Democrats is

because the first thing we do in the first chapters

differentiate between marketing and branding,

just the generic terms.

So marketing is kind of what you're talking about.

What's happening now?

This is our candidate.

The Rolex watches are on sale.

Chevy's freeing a gala or something.

Branding is for five years, 10 years.

What the Democrats stand for?

That doesn't change, but with the seasons,

it doesn't change with the candidate.

And the push of the book is to say,

stop making every candidate present themselves

as if they're different.

90% of Democrats represent the same 90% issues.

We should focus on getting the brand out

about who Democrats are.

A lot of people out there in the world don't know.

Don't know what we stand for.

Ken Weber, Branding Democrats, his book,

Ken, generational, there has also been a generational change

here.

Do you think the branding is different

for different generations?

Well, that's a great question.

It is because in my generation,

you're younger than me.

Both are younger than me.

I still read the New York Times paper.

I like the paper paper as well.

Because you see everything.

You know, turn the page and think she didn't think

you're going to read.

You read the captions.

So I get seven days a week at times.

I read lots of newspapers and magazines.

Most people either, if they read the Times at all,

it's online.

And then the youngest, the Gen X,

I don't even know anymore.

Where's the Gen X?

There's way you'll get it.

I'm so sorry.

I don't know.

No, that's fine.

That's all I care about.

OK, Boomer.

Exactly.

Exactly.

You know, they don't even do what I just said.

They just get TikTok news or something.

Yes, I'm on TikTok.

And yes, I have 41,000 followers.

Why?

Why does that smirk off your face?

Well, political stuff, too.

Ken Weber, our fine guest here at the table

at the DNC United Center in Chicago,

he's got a new book out, at least due to us,

branding Democrats.

Ken, maybe I'm not differentiating properly

between the marketing and the branding,

but some of the marketing as I would interpret it

based on your definition has changed.

Literally, the term freedom is now front and center.

And I think, you know, call it a marketing ploy,

call it a brand, but I think this is a great thing.

I think it was time the Democrats took the word freedom back.

Yes, freedom and patriotism, you know,

so it says a top to bottom reimagining

of campaign strategies.

So for example, if you go out and you see a home

with an American flag painted on the front door or something,

what do you think?

Maga.

Or at least Republican.

Well, that's ridiculous.

They're no more patriotic than Democrats,

but we allowed them to take that over.

So for example, when we say top to bottom

reimagining of campaign strategies,

one of the small things at the bottom of the list

of big things to do, you know, things to do,

yard signs, every yard sign for a Democrat

should say their name, proud American, proud Democrat.

Proud to be a Democrat.

Don't back off, no matter who's in office,

proud Democrat because we stand for the things

most people out there

I'm pointing out in the parking lot.

Yeah, most people out there,

there's people on most,

most people agree with us on most issues.

And most Democrats agree on the same

like 10 or 15 core issues.

Well, the kids who get their news from TikTok

or no news from anywhere,

they don't understand what Democrats are.

That's where the branding comes in.

You know, the other side has done a great job

of branding, you know, guns,

free, second amendment,

and border policy, tough border policy,

and of course abortion, you know, tightening down on that.

But you know, people don't understand

what the Democrats stand for.

We know those of us in the arena,

they don't know.

And we only need one or two or three percent

in many, many elections to turn.

So by the way, I'm just going to keep talking for a moment.

Here in the convention,

everybody's talking about Kamala, Kamala and Tim.

Kamala, Kamala and Tim.

What about the down ballot people?

You got, if Kamala gets in, hopefully,

she needs this House and Senate.

Yeah.

And we need the legislators in all the states.

And it's just frustrating for me,

wrote the book to say,

how I synthesized the book in five words,

the party, not the person.

Focus on the party, not the person.

The persons, the people, the candidates come and go.

The party stays.

But can you know, the Democrats got to fall in love.

We got to fall in love.

And I would see this is playing out

in the difference in enthusiasm

for Kamala Harris relative to Joe Biden.

Suddenly we've found a new love.

We're in puppy love as a party.

Can people don't fall in love with concepts?

Do they?

Don't they?

Great question.

Great question, okay.

And the marketing for today is we have a dynamic,

joyous, brilliant candidate.

That's the current marketing.

And that's good for the next, what is it, 75 days?

75 days, the right.

Yeah, so that's actually the marketing.

The reason we wrote the book,

I wrote it with my son,

who's actually a branding executive

for Fortune 500 companies.

The reason we wrote the book is again,

past the 75 days, five years, 10 years.

Long-term branding.

Again, the Republicans have done this much better.

That they're the, you know, crime in the streets,

fighting against crime in the streets.

And the law and order party.

The law and order party.

I'll have a whole list of all the phrases

that they have taken over.

And then I have named the phrases

that adhere to Democrats, it's blank.

It's a blank list because we don't have any.

And that's our fault.

It's our fault.

Folks, you're listening to the devil's advocates,

Radio Show author Ken Weber of the book,

Branding Democrats.

Ken, what about if you leave that hole there,

if that page is blank?

Well, the other side, the Republicans,

they'll determine, they'll tell what the brand is

for the Democrats.

And they did, you know, I do TikToks.

And the other side responds.

And they say, well, you guys are all baby killers.

You guys want to just get free things

away to illegal immigrants.

So that's their issue.

They literally think they're Democrat neighbors.

Democratic neighbors are that.

That what Fox News or Newsmax down the hall

has told them we are.

But we're not.

That is our fault.

We have to go after the media and say, stop allowing them

to say that.

Why didn't you push back?

Let's present the other side because we don't want,

we're not pro-abortion.

We're pro-women's rights, healthcare rights.

Primate.

Primate proper.

It's different.

Ken, what about the rural areas?

Is, I know we talked about the marketing versus,

to different generations.

What about the rural areas, the regional marketing?

Is that also coming to effect?

It does somewhat.

It does somewhat.

But, you know, as I think I said,

and I've talked to so many people, you know,

I talked to, you know, for many elections,

it's just one or two or three percent we don't need.

So even rural people, they care about healthcare.

They care about fair taxation.

You know, the billionaire shouldn't be paying less

than the secretaries.

You know, they care about LGBTQ rights

because even in the rural areas, they got them, right?

You know, everybody knows somebody.

Democrats care about minority rights.

We know workers rights, protecting workers rights,

union rights.

So even in the rural areas, and by the way,

my friend, Congressman Mark Pocan,

he's represents rural people.

They love him.

Because he explains, no, what you think Democrats stand for

is a mistake.

That here's what we really stand for.

Folks, you're listening to The Devils,

Advocates Radio Show.

We are live at the DNC right here, beautiful Chicago, Illinois.

We got to find author, any guest, Ken Weber.

He authored the book, Branding Democrats,

a top two bottom reimagining of campaign strategies.

Let me ask you, Donald Trump's been running

for president for like nine years.

Continuously, he never really stopped.

The Democrats, and Joe Biden, obviously, he was the incumbent.

So we all expected he'd be the top the ticket.

But all of a sudden, we've got this fresh face candidate.

We have the vice president at the top of the ticket.

And this very abbreviated cycle.

Yeah.

Maybe should we be considering abbreviating the cycle

or is this more of a perpetual branding cycle?

We still have to write the book two years ago

before this whole thing.

Sure.

The debate.

And you can't put something into print

based on what's happened in the last 30 days.

Exactly my point.

But as long as you brought up the orange Mussolini.

Yes, sir.

I'd prefer not to say his name.

Yes.

He gets branding.

People don't vote for a convicted felon.

They don't vote for a womanizer.

All the negatives about Donald Trump,

they vote for the brand.

Here in Chicago, I'm in the Sheridan.

I opened my window.

I see the Chicago River.

It's a beautiful sight.

But at night, when I opened my window,

I see the 20-foot T-R-O-R.

From time.

I won't spell.

I won't say it.

T-R-E-W-N-P.

Yeah.

Branding branding.

They think he created that from scratch.

He's a genius.

No, he didn't.

He's hundreds of millions in debt.

He screws up Atlantic City casinos where he houses always wins.

He's got a whole list of failures.

And America's the latest.

But yeah, so he's a genius of branding and little else.

How would you rate the current branding efforts

of the Democratic Party?

And where would you like to see them focus?

Do you think I wrote the book or said no problem?

I mean, obviously, different campaigns, different candidates.

Things don't change over time in our current situation

right now.

Honestly, from the time I wrote the book,

there's fourth day of the convention.

No, the branding has not changed.

And I love the party.

I'm having the time of my life.

But I still see, as I said, all the talk, all the speeches

about, we're going to elect Kamala.

She's joyous and she's smart.

So more focus on the down ticket.

What happens to the Senate and the House?

We got to get the Senate and the House.

If we don't, she's just in the White House.

Thank God.

But we need the Senate and the House.

And if they're not branding, who Democrats are

top to bottom in all these 435 congressional seats.

And the hundred, they're not all up.

Now, of course, the Senate seats.

She's powerless.

So I am frustrated.

I am frustrated that that book is not a best seller here.

Of course, the people who know it love the book.

I mean, I'm going to give you a quick.

Can I break for just a moment?

Just a moment.

This is not that we've ever done that.

Greatest radio show ever.

You're appearing on right now.

You're listening to the devil's episode.

This is, I've heard that.

We self-describe.

Please continue, Kamala.

A little further in my cap.

This is about three, four weeks ago.

I'm a New Yorker.

And Jay Jacobs is the chairman of the Democratic Party

in New York State.

He liked the book, Branding Democrats.

So much.

He uses his own money.

He bought 30 copies to give out to all the congressional

candidates in the state.

So at least one party chief got it.

But man, we got to get it out to others.

Because they're the ones who make the decisions about who

does what and who says what?

Ken, let me ask you, we've been doing a low radio show

for about 13 years.

And we called it the devil's advocates.

How do you think we did with our branding, sir?

I'm going to ask, why did you do that?

Why would you do that?

Dominic and I like to argue.

We were college roommates.

And he is a contrarian.

And we knew of nothing else.

We like to have political arguments.

And it's all in good fun.

It's never personal, only politics for us.

So our attitude personally was, we're going to fight.

And whatever I like, ironically, he always finds a way

to not like.

So he was the devil's advocate when we started.

But we've grown into the brand.

But he's way back and forth.

Who's the devil on a getting day?

Generally.

Depends on the day.

Well, and topically, too.

Usually there's opinions on the other side, right?

And whether or not you actually believe it or not,

someone usually, and sometimes it's you, Kurty,

sometimes it's me, I take the mantle of the other side

just to have the argument.

Just to have the discussion.

Gotcha.

Makes sense.

And I guess, ultimately, too, Ken, when you know each other,

when you have relationships, if you don't

each other over 30 years, it gives you a lot of room.

To be critical on that.

And to poke fun a little bit and not take it personally.

I think one of the things I really liked about this

and the only thing that you, as we wrap up here,

Ken, what do you think about the joy theme?

What's the actually the joy?

I mean, Democrats too often, or we're just on the defensive.

We just, well, they say something, well, that's not true.

Here's the truth.

But to grasp something like joy and put it front and center.

I started doing it on my TikToks, mentioning it early on,

right from the beginning, because I said, that's a theme.

But we hopefully will carry it through for a while.

Hope so.

Yeah.

Ken, you've never responded to my question

about the branding, obviously, you're...

Which one?

Well, the devil's advocate.

Oh, yeah, it is.

My wife and kids are not big fans.

I'll just put it that way.

I'll put the name, no.

It's fine.

Okay.

Very diplomatic, please.

Ken Weber, he's got a fine book I hear.

I cracked up to stats.

That's all I care about.

I don't know if he was listening to it.

Branding Gremmi Gratz, a top to bottom,

reimagining of campaign strategies.

Ken Weber, the fine author.

Thanks, Ken.

We'll be friends still.

Oh, yeah.

All right, man.

Come on back, more devil's advocates.

Live on the road at the DNC.

Shout it, stop for you to see what your life can do.

Let me...

The devil's advocates.

Radio for the nasty women.

Every women.

Look back to the devil's advocates.

Radio show live from the DNC in Chicago.

Check us out on the socials on Twitter at devil radio.

And the fine is branded on Facebook,

the devil's advocates radio.

Branding Democrats, Ken Weber, the author there.

I'll thank you, Ken, for joining us.

We got another fine guest here at the table.

Working class hero, Rick Smith, our buddy and union labor

and also broadcast.

Welcome back, Rick.

How you been, man?

Rudy, Dom, good to see you guys.

Good to see you, man.

You've got the best seat in the house

as far as radio productions.

You live in right right in front of the doors, man.

That's living right.

We're right in front of the back door.

I mean, yeah, I was just there for you.

Yeah, yeah, I think there is.

It's very consistent over time, Rick.

Rick, I've been watching you.

We've been broadcasting the evenings around the corner

over at WCPT and you have had lots of big guests, man.

We're hanging up with them.

We're some of the big gamers you've had.

Well, look, I'm a labor guy.

So for me talking to all the labor leaders

that are around the country, that's where my focus is.

I want to know what they're doing,

how they're mobilizing their members.

And look, I've said for years

that if you want a labor party in this country,

the only way you get there

is you take one of the two major parties over.