The Power Of Cheese

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Now live from the civic media studios in Madison, Wisconsin, where the political party is just

beginning, welcome to the devil's advocates radio show.

Friends proving it's never personal, only politics.

Now here's your host, Dom and Crout.

Welcome to the devil's advocates radio show happy Monday to us all, especially to Aaron

he's helping today, lightly screening the phone calls this hour for us.

And I'm declaring this, the Wisconsin Power Hour.

We're going to lead Wisconsin each and every day here, the expansion of the three hours,

so there's always time for my favorite state.

You know, I'm a badger at heart.

And this hour will be powered today by cheese, the power of cheese.

Do you remember back up?

It was like the dairy council, they had those ads, they ran them, the power of cheese.

And it's ironic that today's show is 17 years or longer in the making, because I've asked

Aaron to go to the archives, he's done the work, and we're going to play it for you.

Here is the, the first power of cheese, politically speaking, it's powerful stuff, play it, please.

That's why I want to be your president.

No, thank you, you don't like cheese.

Bays campaigns stumble today, they don't like cheese.

What a douchebag.

This cheese thing is really just a non-issue.

Hi there, I'm John Hayes, and I'm-

Hey, John Hayes, run it for president.

What if we say he chewed, but he never swallowed?

Oh, I like it.

I think that we're still very strong in the farm belts.

And on the farm, we don't like eggs.

E-I-I-O!

What does Bob Dolton think?

Bob Dolton thinks he's a douchebag.

No, you're support under victory.

Cheese, that, Bays Dolton.

I want to live in the White House.

Unlike my opponent, I love cheese.

What a douchebag.

I have not the douchebag.

Ah, the power of cheese.

The power of cheese.

This was got some power hour.

Powered by the power of cheese, I got to tell you folks.

I don't like the cheese.

The cheese, bro.

And the cheese, bro, leads the headlines today.

And Molly Pack, at the Ibnilwaki Journal Sentinel,

who's got the coverage I'm gonna lead with.

And I would point out I turned to inferior,

whitey, righty talk radio.

And they were called this law fair, law fair against cheese, bro.

Kenneth Cheese, bro.

The Wisconsin architect of the fake electoral scheme

and his co-conspirator in this,

what I would allege criminal action.

Jim Troopers, former judge from the great state of Wisconsin.

He was Trump's counsel for about the last three months.

You know, the contentious last three months.

After Trump lost the election here in the state of Wisconsin,

yet would not concede and the January six.

You know, you know how it turned out,

or at least most of it.

But there's new reporting because court records

from Trump's attorneys Troopers and cheese, bro.

Revealed depth of the fake electoral scheme.

Now they've been out doing sort of a,

well, Troopers has been going on Vicky McKenna show constantly,

righty, whitey talk radio.

Can't, can't represent today.

Apparently he sent his lawyer, mega,

making attorneys get attorneys.

I love it.

Two attorneys with deep ties to Wisconsin.

I read Molly Beck's reporting here,

worked together to carry out a scheme to keep Donald Trump

in power after he lost reelection,

a new court record show, former Trump attorneys,

Jim Troopers.

I heard a colleague in broadcast.

Now over at the TMJ, say once upon a time,

whose Jim Troopers, I guess we'll never know.

Former Trump attorneys, Jim Troopers and Kenneth

Cheesebroke made public this week.

Troves have previously hidden emails, text messages,

and other documents is part of an agreement

to settle a lawsuit filed against them.

Over a plan to have 10 Wisconsin Republicans

signed and submit paperwork claiming to be electors

for Trump, according to the plaintiff's attorney,

I would call it a criminal conspiracy.

That's crudey's representation, just my opinion.

I read on this quote, Jeff Mandel from the Stafford

Rosenbaum and the law forward.

Troopers and Cheesebroke orchestrated in a grigis,

an unprecedented scheme to undermine the will of the voters

in Wisconsin and beyond.

The case has, again, law forward represented the plaintiffs

in this matter, and this is their statement.

This case was the first to seek accountability

for those individuals who tried to overturn the will

of Wisconsin voters.

Through this litigation, we have been able to reveal

the details of the scheme and those who were responsible

to ensure this never happens again.

We'll see.

But Troopers and Cheesebroke, too not admit wrong doing,

of course, that is part of the agreement

with plaintiffs to resolve the matter.

Now here is a statement from Troopers.

The settlement was made to avoid endless litigation

and nothing in today's settlement constitutes

an admission of fault, nor should it.

Again, this is Troopers' statement.

It is the duty of lawyers to vigorously represent

their clients, regardless of the popularity,

the popularity of what the constitution

within the bounds of the law.

See, that's where you lose me Troopers.

Our representation was vigorous and ethically appropriate.

So he claims that's Troopers' take, that's his statement.

Attorney Matthew Furnholz, who rappres in a Troopers

in the lawsuit and his client said his client,

and I suspect he's the guest over on Vicki Show today,

did not deserve to be put through this politically driven

civil lawsuit.

Porgym Troopers, question mark.

I am glad he can now put this matter behind him

and resume his public life that has benefited so many.

So many, this Jim Troopers, just a little reminder,

Jim Troopers was the guy that wanted to throw out

the absentee ballots from Dana Milwaukee County

to effectively overturn the outcome of the election

in the state of Wisconsin.

And he would do so at the disenfranchisement

of his own vote and his wife's.

And he was willing to martyr his own vote

in such a fashion, his absentee vote,

if that's what it took to install Trump.

Now, he lost this, he lost the recount Milwaukee County

and no small part because RPEL Meg Don,

who was then Milwaukee County Corporation Council,

she was tasked with standing on that wall

and fighting back the challenge of every freaking ballot

by Troopers and the attorneys for the Trump team.

And she created a process to expeditiously count

all the ballots or put them in the sorted piles

of different sort of challenges, let's just say.

And it allowed the vote count to go forward

and the recount to reestablish that Joe Biden had won

overwhelmingly here in the state of Wisconsin.

The litigation, I would remind those

that might feel some, you know, sorrow for Troopers

or Andrew head as he goes on the self-aggrandizement tour,

the save his own ass tour on the 60 minutes,

that this very loss who'd had been settled

by the Wisconsin Supreme Court,

the conservative backed Wisconsin Supreme Court,

this is pre-prote say what's his impairment on the court.

They had already stopped short of trying

to throw out the Wisconsin absentee ballots.

How do we know that lawsuit came down December 14th

before the real electors here in the state of Wisconsin

were cast for Joe Biden.

And the false electors were clandestinely

in the Wisconsin Capitol, and oh, by the way,

guess who was there with him?

Cheesebro, the architect of this, he was in the room.

And we hear Andrew head, oh, I didn't know who he was.

Well, why'd you let him in?

He had armed security, didn't know the man?

That doesn't seem plausible somehow.

So this lawsuit has exposed more of the underlying

communications between Troopers and Cheesebro.

In the settlement agreements signed by Cheesebro in Troopers,

the attorneys agreed to not help any future presidential campaign,

prepare slates of let's call them alternative electoral votes

without stipulating the documents are not being cast

by true electors.

There was no such caveat.

Despite the fact Andrew hit the former Republican Party chair,

one of the fake electors here,

the guy that went on the 60 minutes and said,

no, they, they do me, I'm so dumb.

Question mark.

There was no caveat saying, well, this is a just in case,

just in case there are some successful appeal

to the US Supreme Court.

That's not how it's worth it.

Now, if I were an attorney or just someone trying to cover

my own ass and not commit a criminal act, let's say,

I might have made sure that caveat was part of the,

the documentation I signed off on.

Now, Troopers also agreed to pay an undisclosed amount

as part of the settlement.

So Troopers wrote the check, right?

And I grant you civil, judgment, civil agreements,

settlements, they often come without any admission of guilt,

right? That's part of the deal.

That's why you settle.

So you don't have to say I was wrong.

I was guilty, but who wrote the check?

Who wrote the check?

Jim Troopers wrote the check.

Now, Fernhold said Troopers also agreed to cover plaintiffs,

attorney's fees accrued in the future lawsuits.

If he violated this agreement,

as part of the resolution of lawsuit,

cheesebrow and Troopers released hundreds of pages

of emails, text messages and other documents showing the pair

designed the plan days after the November 3, 2020 election

and shared the plan with Trump campaign officials

at the national level.

They were the architects.

Troopers was in the room making the plans,

not just for Wisconsin, but this was a coordinated conspiracy

all across the nation.

Couple of states they have caveats,

Pennsylvania being one of them.

Here in the state of Wisconsin, no disclaimers.

Nothing but a clear, fraudulent statement.

And it helps to power the Wisconsin power hour.

Also, by the way,

the boy cheesebrow might have perjured himself.

I got new coverage of that.

Come back.

Devil's Advocates got Chuck Kuala in studio at 3.30.

Dom joins it for him.

Ah, the power of cheese.

The Devil's Advocates may not agree on much,

but funny is funny.

Look back to the Devil's.

The Monday edition.

So new news of the great state of Wisconsin cheesebrow

in Troopers as part of their civil settlement

with law forward and the real Biden electors

that sued the fake Trump electors.

They had to release some documents.

Lots of documents.

Lots of correspondence.

The underlying, I would say, implicating documents.

And guess who was given legal advice

to the aforementioned Jim Troopers

and the cheesebroke, the architect

of this fake electors plot.

And it started right here in our backyard,

right here in Wisconsin.

And part, the conspiracy was executed

at the Wisconsin State Capitol,

one block from where I'm broadcasting from right now.

And legal counsel was offered by two-time loser Dan Kelly.

I mean, if you're gonna get legal counsel,

get it from former Walker appointee

to the Wisconsin Supreme Court

who could not hold serve and then lost again, Dan Kelly.

What a guy.

The pair received legal advice

from former Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Dan Kelly

about their efforts during which he urged them

not to file an appeal of the counting ballots collected

by the election workers in Madison City Parks

because of a lack of legal grounds to do so.

There's very little legal merit here.

The sink your teeth into, is there, Kelly?

Kelly, who was working for the State GOP

at the time as legal counsel, told attorneys

if their goal is to get their arguments

before the State Supreme Court,

including problematic legal arguments

will likely result in a rejection.

So you better have good arguments.

I'm not clear that they ever did.

And they were dismissed as predicted

by the Wisconsin Supreme Court about an hour

before the false electors cast their ballots

here in the state of Wisconsin.

And cheesebro was in the room literally taking video tape.

Now, there is new reporting.

I found it at the raw story.

That's my favorite aggregator.

Do you want to know what I'm talking about today?

You know, I've at least touched the raw story,

at least once today.

But anyways, new perjury problem for ex-Trump lawyer

Ken Cheesebroh, flagged by law professor

Brad Reed reports at the raw story.

Former Trump lawyer Kenneth Cheesebroh.

This guy, he's all over the news,

is already facing questions about whether he potentially

perjured himself in testimony to Michigan prosecutors.

And now New York University law professor

Ryan Goodman has flagged testimony in another state

that could prove problematic.

Another one, specifically Goodman points

to a statement Cheesebroh made to a grand jury in Nevada

about the alternative elector plan.

He devised in which a group of Trump supporters

falsely asserted themselves to be the

legitimate electoral college representatives

in states that voted for presidential Biden in 2020.

As we pointed out, folks, it wasn't just Wisconsin.

It was like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Nevada.

Lots of states saw a similar action with documents

prepared perhaps by some of the very same legal counsel

because this was like very boilerplate.

And after Cheesebroh was asked whether he saw

pending litigation as critical to the planned success,

he affirmed that he did the whole point

of the alternative elector plan

that we arrived at in Wisconsin.

Now, this is the testimony Cheesebroh's giving.

Started here in Wisconsin is the idea is we make sure

that we have the extra three weeks to try to win the lawsuit.

If there isn't any lawsuit, then there's no need

for this to be done because there's no lawsuit

that we that would be won before the January 6th.

So he's claiming that the Wisconsin plan is,

you know, it's just in case, gotta have it there,

just in case, however, an email sent by Cheesebroh

on December 8, 2020 shows the attorney did not believe

that litigation was critical to the planned success.

I think having the elector send in alternative slates

of votes on December 14th can pay huge dividends,

even if there's no litigation pending on January 6th,

he argued.

Well, that's a contradiction to what you told the Nevada

investigators Cheesebroh.

Now, the email went on to say there is no barrier

to Congress there.

We're taking this Senate, assuming it's still controlled

by Republicans, deliberating on which electoral slate

account, even if one electoral slate is endorsed

by the governor, after all litigation is final,

indeed, even if the slate met December 8th,

safe harbor deadline.

In other words, argues Cheesebroh,

there didn't need to be any pending litigation

to justify the alternative electors as Republican centers

could simply vote to count their votes

instead of the ones who voted for Biden.

You think Ron Johnson would go along with that?

I think he might.

This leads Goodman to conclude that Kenneth Cheesebroh

has a new perjury problem.

I suspect that he might.

So, the power of cheese, the Monday edition,

it's a big Monday.

We've got a big gas coming up very, very soon.

First time ever, we've had Chuck Kuala on the show.

Now, Chuck was an insider here in the state politics

and I've got to ask his opinion on so many

of these recent headlines, but also want to do

a little bit of insight baseball.

We've got new electoral maps, and I'm very, very curious

how these maps reset the table for democratic success.

Where are the pickups?

Where should we be looking to?

Where could we support candidates?

Where could the devil's advocates?

Where could our audience?

Where could we help people get across the finish line?

Where could we find, let's just say,

fair representation, more democratic representation

in the state of Wisconsin with the new legislative maps?

And we'll find out if Chuck thinks this is,

last word on these maps, I'm hoping so.

It would seem as if Republicans are now starting,

starting to look at, you know,

where they've been doubled up in different districts

and start to kind of make their calls,

than Canotal, rather than holding serve,

rather than running against Dewey Strobel

for the Senate seat he now now has through special election.

The Canotal has opted to say he's going to go run

against Janelle Branchin.

And Branchin, of course, is the alleged felon

who helped the Adam steam campaign allegedly funnel money

illegally throughout party GOP campaigns.

I mean, the corruption is rampant.

And the schemes, well, there's new evidence on the table.

And I would question, what's the attorney general

of the great state of Wisconsin going to do about it?

Want those crimes?

Don't they originate here?

Wasn't this scheme all about the state of Wisconsin

isn't that what we learn over and over again

from the cheese, bro?

It started in Wisconsin, but really, they took a national,

kind of like the Devil's Evocates Radio Show,

going worldwide soon.

844-967-2789, you can always be a part.

But Chuck Walla joining me in the WMDX 92.7 FM Studios

next, going to get his take.

Dom's going to join at four o'clock.

You can always join.

It's toll-free round here.

Doesn't cost you nothing.

844-96 party.

There goes my hero, watching as he goes.

There goes my hero, such as Mary.

The Devil's Evocates, the fix for political junkies everywhere.

Welcome back to the Devil's Evocates Radio Show, the Monday edition.

And in fine addition, he joins right now in the WMDX 92.7 FM Studios, Chuck Walla.

He's a Democrat.

I'm going to call you one of the ultimate insiders, Chuck.

I think it's the first time we ever met in person.

So very nice to meet you, sir.

Thanks for coming down.

And we're going to hold you until Dom joins the party at four o'clock.

But Chuck, before we get into the inside of the baseball,

I'm looking forward to talk about the new legislative maps.

I'm very curious because I haven't really done the homework.

So I hope you have.

But I got to ask you about some of the headlines of the day.

Now, Chuck, we all know your history.

But the accusations being leveled by the Wisconsin Ethics Committee against Janelle branch

and a sitting state lawmaker in the campaign of Adam Steen.

And really the Trump campaign, illegally funneling money to benefit Adam Steen against speaker

who is the Republican leader in the state and nearly lost his primary against Adam Steen

after Trump came to town.

Dom and I were at that rally.

But Chuck, what's your impression against the the felonious allegations against the sitting state lawmaker?

Well, it does.

It is good to live in interesting times.

And I'll tell you, it is remarkable.

The branch in Robin Boisstein.

I mean, the dynamics here are really remarkable.

And what you're seeing is the meltdown of a party.

And the transformation of that party into basically an authoritarian support network.

And it is hard to believe that as far to the right as Robin Bois is, he is in this scenario.

And in this story, the moderate, you know, Trump wants to take him out.

And they go through any avenue available.

And branch in gets in and says, I'll do whatever.

And really it looks like overstep the bounds.

My understanding is that she's going to get a primary from the Republicans.

And that's probably going to take care of that issue.

I don't think it has much to say about the future of our state or even of who controls the legislature,

which is really important or more importantly, whether Donald Trump is elected.

But I think it says a lot about the meltdown of the Republican party.

And, you know, the reality is here that Robin Bois has steered the Republican party.

He has ruled with an iron fist and he has delivered really everything they want.

I mean, so much so that something that is adopted in 41 out of the 50 states,

Medicaid, the federal health care money is not taken in Wisconsin.

How can this guy who is so extreme, you know, what is it, 48 or 50 states adopt some kind of marijuana approval?

Robin Bois has held that up.

How do you get somebody who's that far the right and yet Donald Trump wants to take him out?

And I'll tell you what it is.

It is that this is not a democratic movement with Donald Trump.

This is an authoritarian movement in the country.

And the question is whether we can stop it.

And you can see they will stop it nothing.

And to me, the branch in operation here is just, it shows there are no bounds on what they will do in order to achieve their objective.

You know, it's interesting to me that Robin Bois went down to Alabama.

I believe on a private plane with Trump and, you know, kissed the ring.

And then he brought the Gabelman investigation at the taxpayer's great expense, Chuck Walla,

and was embarrassed ultimately.

Of course, it was always an embarrassment to put a corrupted former Supreme Court justice,

would already declared his politics and already declared his conclusions before he started his investigations.

So, I mean, we all knew that this was a joke.

Those of us that care.

But Robin Bois has been trying to walk this untenable line.

And he's trying to please the mega base.

And yet somehow still be the powerful, you know, caucus driver.

Chuck is the game over for Robin Bois.

I mean, at some point, we got new maps coming.

Is Robin Bois going to be under minded by the loss of the caucus?

Or is Robin Bois just going to get fed up and say, I'm done with this.

I'm moving on to sell popcorn full time.

I think you hit the nail on the head with what you've said.

I think that at the most, Robin Bois will run for election here, try to operate the assembly

because he believes, and I think there's a reason to believe this, that they will be able to maintain the majority,

at least for another term, because you have incumbency and you have other advantages

having been in control, so that being able to work the lobby court, etc.,

that he will be able to maintain that.

But what he's going to find very quickly is with the reduced margins.

His margin could be as little as one vote or a couple of votes.

What he'll find is it'll be much harder to manage that caucus.

And because there is a mega base, not just branching, but a whole bunch of other people,

he's going to be undermined.

If Donald Trump were to win, for example, he wants Robin Bois out.

I wouldn't be surprised that somebody would take him on, even for a leadership election.

What is really what you're finding is that it's no longer conservative versus liberal.

Again, it's an authoritarian operation that is going to take out even a Robin Bois

who is doing all the policy things that they want and then some.

And I think that you're seeing probably, this will be the last two years for Robin Bois,

but even if he's around, I'm not sure if he'll be able to be.

He certainly won't be as effective as he has been.

He may not even be able to run the show, because the margins will be that close

and Trump will undermine him if he's in.

And if he isn't, then it'll be an open question as to what happens.

Folks, you're listening to the Devils.

F.Kitt's Radio Show got to find guests in studio in the WMDX 92.7 FM studios.

He's Chuck Kwala, former majority leader, assembly, right?

Oh, my bad, Chuck, I'm sorry, Senator.

Let me, let me ask you about the, the Trump.

This state was a never Trump state.

Obviously it was the birthplace of Scott Walker or at least he moved here

and ran for president while he was the governor here.

And you know, as Walker faded rapidly, didn't even make it to Iowa.

Others took his place.

Be it Marco Rubio and eventually Ted Cruz became the chosen one of the never Trump movement

here in the state of Wisconsin.

But these Republicans seemingly didn't have a lot of affinity for Trump in 16 until he became the nominee.

And they all rolled over right wing talk radio Chuck.

They rolled over everybody rolled over and and bowed down and kissed the ring.

And they wanted the Supreme court seat.

And you know, they, they wanted Trump ultimately.

And then we've seen them sort of fade away.

We saw Paul Ryan, you know, first they merged their agendas.

And then he, you know, cashed out and left.

And we now see who is it?

Mike Gallagher from Green Bay.

Otherwise a up and coming in the Republicans, you know, one might say he's,

he's the old school sort of Jack Kim kind of Republican that we would admire.

But you know, doesn't have an appetite for the game anymore.

Not when Trump is the top of the ticket.

Chuck, how does the Wisconsin Republican party?

And if I understand the reporting, Brian Schemming, this old radio dog now heading the party was complicit in some way,

shape or form in the J6.

But let's assume he's, he's not charged and he goes forward.

You know, they're bringing their party to Wisconsin for the RNC this summer.

They need this state desperately.

They need Wisconsin, Michigan and a couple of others for Trump to become the president.

But this party seems to disarray Chuck.

They're in deep disarray and Trump is taking every dollar that they have,

and either spending it on his campaign or on his legal fees.

The move by Trump to put his daughter-in-law in as a co-chair of the Republican party nationally.

You heard about the dysfunction in Michigan where they actually had two competing chairs of the Republican party.

Yeah, we had fun with that topic.

We were in Michigan recently.

So there you go.

So the problem is, as you can see that,

and if you were able to have Brian Schemming actually have to give him a true serum and have him speak,

he would tell you that they're in disarray.

Who is going to give money to that party?

Now, why will they be able to be competitive?

For one, Trump has his own appeal.

That there's just no denying that.

But the second thing is there are all sorts of multi-billionaire groups,

the Koch brothers, you know, club for growth.

You know, there's just a number of them.

For you lions, the Widow Hendrix, they'll all fund these candidates.

Exactly. But you know, here's the problem.

And this is why I know a lot of people are pessimistic with the polls and with everything out there.

I'm optimistic for this reason, and you just stated it.

When you lose Mike Gallagher, when you lose Paul Ryan, you just lost the suburbs.

And guess what?

It's not as big a topic now, but wait until September and October.

We're going to have another conversation with women about Donald Trump who appointed three justices,

who had one of their justices, not his appointee, but another Republican appointee.

Clarence Thomas saying, you know, we ought to go after birth control, too.

How do you think women are going to feel about that?

Women in the suburbs, the people on the Republican side, women in the Republican suburbs of Milwaukee.

Charlie Sykes abandoned them.

He's not one of them.

He's an ever-trunker.

The women in those suburbs, they are not walking.

They are running to the Democratic side of the aisle.

When you have this whole thing where Robin Vos is not far enough to the right,

or he's not loyal enough to Donald Trump, people don't want to see that.

They want to make their own decisions and they expect that everybody else should do.

I think that we are going to be in good shape because those people are no longer there.

You had to see Mike Gallagher as a rising star, and now he's gone.

Chuck Walla got a little, I got a little, me and Dom and Sage Wilde, the managing partner over at Civic Media.

Civic Media got a little national press from David Cider at the political.

I told David that night as we went out for a few cocktails and a steak on his publisher

that I didn't see a Republican winning another statewide election in Wisconsin.

As long as abortion was still a driving issue, as long as abortion was effectively illegal in the state.

Chuck, I've never seen an issue like this that galvanized the electorate in the same way

as it did in the protosaywoods race.

And I think she was a fine candidate, but it wasn't that she was all over the media.

They had plenty of ads for her, but this race was really driven by the grassroots, by women,

and the electoral victory margin, surprising.

And I pay close attention, but 11 seems like a lot to me.

It is a lot, and I'll tell you, I think protosaywoods ran a great race,

but you're absolutely right. Abortion drove the race.

And you're right, whether it's at a state supreme court level, any other statewide race,

there will not be a Republican who can win the state of Wisconsin going forward.

And now the question is, can Trump overcome that in this year with all of the different troubles that Biden has?

Again, I'm an optimist. I don't think that Trump will overcome it.

And he's out on the campaign stump. Trump is taking credit for the three justices that overturned Rolfie Wade.

He wants credit for that shot.

And you know what? He doesn't see it.

You know, he doesn't wait until he sees the 32nd ads that are going to be produced against him on abortion.

His own words, bragging about appointing these three guys.

And then there's going to be the stories.

You know, even I feel like it almost brings you to tears to hear about the story of the nine-year-old

who had to go across state lines to parents in order to get an abortion.

The woman in Texas who was married had a couple of kids.

Something came up late. The pregnancy. The child is not going to live, you know, other than maybe a month or something like that.

And if she doesn't have an abortion, she will not be able to have more children.

And she wants to have more children as men hear more about this.

Women already are outraged and rightfully so.

And my line that I say for this campaign and I think it will be the driving line is stand up for women.

Women themselves and men are going to stand up for women because this is outrageous.

Why is government getting involved?

And by the way, even my colleague on the insider's program, Scott Jensen, recognized the Republicans have a deep, deep problem with abortion.

And that is they like to claim they're the party of freedom.

How do you do that when you take these restrictions on abortion, taking the decision away from women?

And then you've even got a justice on the Supreme Court saying, let's take away contraception as well.

How about that for another one? How about IVF? It's just outrageous.

And I think that is going to drive the election. And we're not there yet, but watch for it in September and October.

Chuck, Ron Johnson won reelection in that very same political environment.

And a, he was filthy on right wing talk radio, 325 hours.

I believe the New York Times reported free radio, 325 hours.

That's like eight working weeks where the guys on radio just giving interviews instead of legislating.

Not that we want Ryan legislating too much.

But between that and the really racially toned ads targeting Mandela Barnes.

They were effective in that he won.

Seemingly there were votes suppressed in Milwaukee as Bob Spindell bragged.

But you know, they used to keep that park quiet, didn't they Chuck?

Yeah. And they now they've said it out loud.

And I think the racism of, I mean, anybody who looks at Trump and wonders why.

Any of this phenomenon is there remember 80% of it is the, is the race thing.

But on top of that, I do think Ron Johnson want the extra mile, but it's a sad thing that we still have Ron Johnson in there.

But I think this is his last term.

And in fact, I would, I would bet $1,000 to somebody else is $100.

I'd be curious what you think of this Laguna Beach guy, Eric Hodeby.

With the porn stage, you know, I think the only race that Tammy Baldwin has is can she beat the margin that she won?

The margin that she won with last time. And that's a high bar.

That's 11%, but I think with Eric Hodeby, she has a chance to exceed that.

And that's hard to do.

Well, he's got to be more likeable than Nurse Ratchet was.

Come back. He is Chuck Kwala.

First time I've ever had him in studio looking forward to keeping him around.

We're going to talk some inside baseball on the maps and wait till Dom joins it for.

We'll go statewide. We'll pick the races that you can help us overcome.

More Double Sapkets, more Chuck Kwala.

I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those meddling Devils advocates.

Welcome back to the Devils.

Evidence Radio Show, the power of cheese Monday edition. That's a different story.

I've got nothing to do with this fine guest. I've got here in the WM DX 92.7 FM studios.

He is Chuck Kwala.

Chuck, I wanted to talk some inside baseball. I want to talk about these legislative maps.

And I have to ask you, I was advocating on the error that Tony veto these maps.

And I had gotten a little bit of insight that, you know, maybe it was a bad idea.

And maybe the Republicans would go running off to the seven circuit court.

That is not happened. And most of the reporting I've seen is actually saying Republicans are starting to pick districts and, you know, starting to triangulate and strategize, if you will, sir.

So let's assume these are the maps, Chuck. Do we, do we feel comfortable? Do you think these are the maps? Are we using these maps?

I think the best signal, and you know, if you're an insider, you're watching all these things.

The big signal that this, these are the maps was when the will organization stated publicly that they weren't going to appeal and that they felt these were the maps.

So you think there's probably not something else. Could there be a last minute move there? There could be. It's possible.

But it looks like they've decided to try and live with it.

I think the reason for that is that you were right about the maps. These are not the maps that would do the best job of having the fairest maps and the best opportunity for an opportunity for Democrats and Republicans to have an equal shot at getting a majority in legislature.

In fact, as Robin Vos himself said, these are the best maps available on the Democratic side. Now, in spite of that.

I just didn't believe him, Chuck. I just didn't believe that he would ever just concede this and legislatively bring a solution to the table.

Like, and the Van Wongard was protesting way too much. Oh, you know, they could curb stop us or stab us and we took the stabbing. Come on, Van. I just, I don't believe them, Chuck.

No, and I think that the only thing that what was the word. I think the court was probably ready to go ahead and choose probably the right maps spelled W R I G H T that was proposed one of the plaintiffs.

One of the plaintiffs maps. And those maps would have given Democrats an opportunity to win the state Senate this time. So let's be clear of this.

Despite the fact only half the Senate seats are in contention this fall. Correct.

For the prior ruling on the Supreme Court. But what they were doing was re-numbering some of the districts. And, you know, re-numbering is kind of a vague term because whenever you do redistricting by definition, some people are going to be in a re-numbered area.

But those maps and probably the law forward maps gave a better opportunity for Democrats and the other thing on the right maps and this is around the maps that the governor adopted.

Robin Velas feels that he has an opportunity there to keep a majority for two more years at least and maybe longer than that. But I think the two years will be the end of it.

I think that you were right about the maps that these are not the best maps for Democrats to get into the majority now. But they are maps that are much better. And I think Robin Velas was told by his attorneys.

One thing that the attorneys who came in as plaintiffs did a really good job of law forward boardman and the others who were there.

They chose a way of approaching this. That was very hard. And this is where being an attorney helps a little bit in addition to the political side. And I know it's kind of inside baseball.

But they chose a way of getting into this with the non-contaguity of districts that really gave them a legal basis that the US Supreme Court couldn't overturn.

So I think the only reason Robin Velas did this is he knows he's outside of his world. He's in the legal world. And his attorneys told him, hey, you're not going to succeed on this.

Your best deal is to cut a deal. Can you get the bet? What's the best map available? And that's what he did. And by the way, any thing that Robin Velas wants, you know, is not great for Democrats.

But give it all, Jeremy, I did everything was these are good maps that Democrats can build on.

Excellent. Our fine guys, Chuck Wallam, Chuck, let's talk about my backyard, Dean County.

We're going to see some pitting. We've got some very newly elected, but very powerful women in my backyard.

We've got one who Melissa Agard is now declared that she's going to go run for Dean County executive, try to follow Joe Parisi into that seat.

We got Keldor Royce. We've got, I'm going to miss some San Hasselbein.

Yes, Diane, who is my senator. Don't want to miss her.

So what's going to happen with this Senate here in my backyard, Dean County, we're not going to need this many Democratic senators.

Are we, sir? Oh, yeah. And more because one of the things that you didn't mention, but this is the insider stuff you brought me on for the one to watch this year is the 14th Senate district.

What the 14th, where is that? That's not around here. It is right on the edge of Dean County. And John Ballwig is going to move into this district and run. That's the word.

By the way, it's, I think that Howard Marklein might even be in that district, but I think he's going to represent the 17th, which is south of that.

By the way, that's a Democratic seat that we will pick up in two years, whether Howard Marklein runs or not.

But the 14th Senate district has a lot, has almost all, maybe all of Richland County, Sauc County, Columbia County, a little bit north of Sauc County.

And then it dips down into Dane County and even picks up a little bit of the north side of Madison.

The bottom line is that that's a district that I expect Democrats will win. And, and the other one, the other, the one that's probably more not people are more aware of.

That's the Melissa Agar Senate seat. And here's the deal with Melissa Agar. She's leaving. She is the, she's like the slam dunk odds on person to win Dane County executive.

I think so. Yeah, she's going to be the Dane County exec. What's happening underneath? Well, all three of her state representatives, Samba Balda, Melissa, Radcliffe and Jimmy Anderson are all running for her state Senate seat.

And by the way, each one of those people has a very good claim on the, on the district and why they might be able to win that seat.

Well, that means that there are three open assembly districts. And right now, you know, we don't know, except I do know that there's very likely one of the seats, the 48th, which includes really about two thirds of it is Sun Prairie.

A guy who lives in Sun Prairie and ran two years ago, Andrew high cell is running for that seat. He's already been endorsed by Melissa Agar.

And I think game over on that one, but there are two open seats. So you're going to see some new people in those two other seats.

But you're also going to see new people up in this new 14th Senate district. And that 14th Senate district. Actually, you know, if you look at, if you look at that, there are going to be some new people are going to come in.

For example, Dave Constantine is out. So that seat will be open. Dave was the assemblyman from Baraboo. Very good. Exactly. In Sauc County. And you're, so you're going to see some new people out there.

So you're going to see some very new names. But I think there are people like Andrew who are going to almost immediately make a difference out there. Why did Melissa Agar support this guy?

He was active even on redistricting issues. He was very active with her on legalization of marijuana. And he went around statewide and helped raise money for people out there.

And people on the inside appreciate people who are doing the things that help you get a majority. So you're going to have some really interesting stuff around Dave County, including one new Senate district this year for Democrats.

And two years from now, the 17th district held by Howard Marklin.

That makes me very excited. He is culture of the joint finance committee currently. Chuck Walla former Senate majority leader. Sorry about that before.

Come back with us. Dom joins now. You can join as well. 844-967-2789. Take a look around the state and see what other districts could be pickups.