The Devils Go To Michigan

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Now live from the civic media studios

in Madison, Wisconsin, where the political party

is just beginning, welcome to the devil's advocates radio show.

Friends proving it's never personal, only politics.

And now here's your host, Dom and Crout.

Welcome to the devil's advocates radio show live

on the road.

Dom, it's a pure Michigan Monday edition.

Crouty, great to be with you in Michigan once again.

Thank you, Aaron, stepping up on the board

of course our fair audience.

And our earlier joining us, we appreciate all of you as well.

It's been a long time since we did a three hour show.

I know it's almost like work now.

It feels like the first time.

You know, it was so long ago that we were three hour

virgins, but here we are again, down that road again.

Here we are again, and we are on the road again,

down the freedom.

Pardon me, I keep wanting to just lead with freedom.

Freedom.

Freedom.

For the love of democracy to our 2024, thank you.

Darryl, fine sponsor, partner, chance design build.

Thanks, Chad.

It puts us on the road again, Dom.

And you came with, here we both are, and we're in Michigan.

And there are stories that connect our two states.

And it's not just the horse race,

because the horse race ain't much of a horse race.

No.

And we'll tell you more about that in the four o'clock hour, Dom.

But the connection between Wisconsin and Michigan,

it's not just that both states look like, you know,

Russ fine gold's hands, or maybe birdie's bitten,

so I'm not clear.

But, you know, we share this fake electoral plan.

Oh, not like Michigan, not, you know, Midwest states,

not a affinity for fine beer, both big 10 states.

Right.

We have, we've got NFC North football.

We have a lot in common.

We do, we do.

And a fake electoral plan.

And the involvement of Kenneth Cheesebrole,

we've said this name a lot, Dom.

And today there's new news, no, no, no, news.

Regarding Mr. Cheesebrole, and perhaps, Dom, perhaps,

he has perjured himself in his involvement

with the, what, the attorney general of state of Michigan,

the Michigan prosecutors testimony that he has given.

And a lot of this has been leaked to apparently CNN.

We've, we've had tapes of him giving the testimony.

But he made representations that may or may not have been

true, Dom.

Maybe, maybe, maybe.

This is how it's being reported.

I'm going to start with the Ross story.

Always a great show when you can lead with the Ross story, Dom.

More indictments await legal expert experts positive plural.

Respond to Kenneth Cheesebrole's secret Twitter account.

Uh-oh.

He had a clandestine Twitter account, Dom.

I wonder if his wife knew he had a secret Twitter account.

Donald Trump, L.I., in election denying lawyer Kenneth

Cheesebrole, has lied to Michigan prosecutors.

When he claimed he never used one of his social media accounts,

a new report suggests.

But he had a burner account, Dom.

A burner Twitter account.

But you got a burner Twitter account.

I do.

It's called the devil's advocates.

You can find it at double radio.

Which contradicts what he told prosecutors.

Oh, now if you're contradicting what you tell prosecutors,

don't they have a word for that?

Yeah, I think it's called perjury.

Harvard Constitutional Law Professor

Lawrence Tribe explained the revelation.

Means Cheesebrole's legal troubles have just begun.

And it will likely mean more charges.

Here's a quote, Dom.

When couldn't Cheesebrole surfaced in this mess?

Mess.

At first, I felt a bit of pity for the guy.

No more trade growth, no pity.

Not only did he plot to overturn the constitutional transfer

of power to the newly elected president,

but he's been lying to pretty much everyone about his role.

More indictments await.

A little bit more from the quote, Dom.

Tribe.

Cheesebrole's secret Twitter account

could lead to serious felony charges in Michigan.

And will augment his eventual federal indictment

by Jack Smith.

This guy is in a huge heap of trouble

that his guilty plea in Georgia barely touches.

Barely touches, Dom.

Cody Cheesebrole's been described

as an architect of Trump's fake electric scheme

after the 2020 election.

He was charged as a co-conspirator

in the Fulton County racketeering case alongside Trump.

But he made a plea deal.

Wonder if he was honest on that plea deal.

CNN reported Monday that Cheesebrole had sent a secret head,

a secret Twitter account called Badger Pundit.

No, me, Badger Pundit.

Badger Pundit spelled right here.

That's a typo.

Typo, Badger Pundit.

On which he made dozens of posts

involving the Trump election claims.

He had told investigators that he did not use X Twitter

and dozens of the posts that he had made

on it contradict statements.

He made about his role in the election subversion scheme,

the report stated.

Former federal and state prosecutor, Eric Leeson,

agreed with tribe saying Cheesebrole

will likely face further charges.

His quote, this should line up Cheesebrole

for prosecution in Michigan under their false statement

statute, which although seemingly less broad

than his federal counterpart could still cover this.

Cheesebrole was directly asked about this and denied

other accounts as a part of his Michigan debriefing.

Those statements also contradict his exculpatory assertions.

The failure to disclose also violates

his cooperation agreement there.

Cheesebrole seems utterly discredited.

You know, I had wondered, it almost struck me

that this Kenneth Cheesebrole, the architect of the plan,

was somehow gonna get away with it

simply by being the first rat,

the first rat off the ship.

And of course, when we've heard his testimony

and we've heard it because there's tapes,

we've heard apparently recordings

that I've always conjectured that they were recordings made

by Cheesebrole, self-serving recordings, right?

Of course, he wants to play what he told the prosecutors.

But what if during the course of all these pleadings

and these pre-offers, damn, what if he was lying

about just how involved and how supportive

of these actions he was?

Because the Twitter account, the Badger Pundit account term,

it was out there saying really positive things

about this plan, this cool plan, right?

Molly Beck also reports on this very topic

in local Milwaukee Journal Sentinel of the account,

this Badger Pundit account, tweeted more than 50 times

that Pence could count the false Trump electors

in the final tale, according to CNN.

Cheesebrole, and we affectionately call him Cheesebrole.

We know it's Chesbrole, but we don't care,

we're disrespecting him.

Cheesebrole, don't be a cheesebrole.

Cheesebrole initially told Michigan prosecutors

he felt misled by the Trump campaign

about the fake-elector plan.

Does that stop familiar?

Andrew had said something similar in 60 minutes recently.

That he felt misled by the Trump campaign

about the fake-elector plan.

But, but, Rudy, the Badger Pundit account

also defended the plot.

The blog associated with the social media account

dates back to 2011, inspired by the Act 10 legislation

that spun Wisconsin politics into turmoil.

Turnings for Cheesebrole told CNN,

there's clearly a conflict between what

Cheesebrole told investigators and what he tweeted.

A conflict, a purgerous conflict, right?

When you lied to the prosecutors,

that's going to have some consequence I suspect them.

It just keeps getting worse.

More is coming to light, that's good.

Why is it taking so long?

But this is obviously good news.

If you care about transparency,

and you want to see some justice done in this case,

and I just don't understand.

I guess I do understand that self-preservation

are thinking you're going to get away with it,

but if you're someone like Cheesebrole,

and you specifically tell investigators,

no, no, never on Twitter, wasn't me.

Wasn't me.

Well, I mean, you think that's not going to get found out.

I mean, the fingerprints on the internet these days,

well, you know, if you strongly deny it.

If you say it with conviction, it must be true.

Folks, you're listening to the Devil's Evacates radio show.

Cody Dyer, I'm the road.

Oh, we've got to mention our fine host here,

the Rochester corner bar.

Thank you, Chris, for allowing us to hang out here

last night at a great dinner, had some drinks.

Had to figure out where we're going to walk us.

Figure out where we're going to broadcast from today.

We reached out.

He kindly allowed us to sit in the corner over here

like we normally do.

Sit in the corner by your own business.

Be quiet.

So we appreciate that.

Perhaps we'll talk to Chris later today,

but you can also join us on the road on the phones at 844-967-2789.

Amazing, Cody.

We're in Michigan.

And now we're talking about a guy from Wisconsin

who lied to investigators in Michigan.

And he was part of the larger underlying plot,

the architect one might say.

And I thought he was going to get away with the dime

simply by being the first and greatest sell-off.

The first canary to sing.

But he couldn't just tell the truth and nothing but the truth.

He had a pain in himself as a little less complicit.

Well, but if you have these guys using the same excuse,

I felt misled by the Trump campaign,

or the lawyers said we could do.

All this, it's hard for me to believe

that these very well-educated, highly-paid political operatives

just didn't know what they were doing.

And it's one thing for that 80-year-old Michigan guy.

I almost believe that guy.

Guys like Andrew Hitt, guys like Kenneth Chiesbrole,

no, man, hard to believe.

Maybe it's the law degrees.

Maybe it's the fact that they were at the very highest levels

of leadership in Chesbro's case.

It was he was the architect of the Kuwait belt.

In the case of Andrew Hitt, he still is a,

but highly-paid legal counsel offering political representation

in the state of Wisconsin, yet somehow he was booze-swagged.

And scared.

At the advice of Trump's counsel, which my understanding was

Rudy Giuliani.

And if I understand correctly, from his bankruptcy

filings, I'm talking about Rudy Giuliani, yeah.

He got stiffed on the coupwork.

The legal work that Rudy performed to undertake a coup

is still outstanding from the Trump campaign.

If he didn't get paid for it, is he not complicit?

Hey, man, that's an outstanding bill.

You can't blame me for that.

You know, if you can't even say I was their counsel,

I mean, I've never paid me this.

It's over 120 days old, man.

It's going to collect it.

They only paid some, some of Rudy's expenses.

That's been all of Rudy's expenses.

Because you know, there are probably some excess bar expenses

that Rudy's down.

I think I suspect we might have a few here at the moment.

Just for the night's over, we are in Michigan.

Pure Michigan, broadcast in live.

Down we're on the for the love of democracy

to work 2024, and you can come with.

Join us on the phones in a three-hour edition.

Aaron helping us screen in your calls lightly.

Well, this feels like the first time I'll over a good.

Go, go, gentle on us.

844-967-2789 back from Michigan.

Stick around, I know you will.

I'm occupied and start on Wall Street.

It started on our street, the Devil's Advocates.

I think you for listening to the Devil's Advocates.

Radio show down the road for the love of democracy to our 2024

bringing us to the Rochester corner bar

in the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan.

Love it here in Michigan.

Primer going on tomorrow.

That's why the Devil's are here today.

You can join us on the lines 844-967-2789.

And Tom, you dragged me down to Detroit,

down to Cadillac Square today.

We met some folks.

We'll share a little of the man on the street Monday

stuff a little bit later in the big show.

But let's look back across the pond late Michigan

and we'll let the great state of Wisconsin down.

Because we've talked about the big lie has sort of lived on.

The big lie, of course, being that he was rigged

and somehow Donald Trump lost this election.

Hell, it was stolen from him.

That's the big lie to my perceptions.

And it undermines so much of the politicking going on, right?

And one of the big issues here in the state of Wisconsin,

we sit in Michigan, but we turn our attention to Wisconsin,

is the absentee ballots that always get counted

on election day at the end of the night.

And then we see this ballot dump as it sometimes called.

And Tom, I remember finally sitting with you

at the Roman coin on election night in November 2018

when the late ballots came in.

And they turned against Scott Walker.

And the wanker went in the rear view mirror

and it was glorious night.

And it went far too late in the evening,

but we were celebratory.

And what were we waiting for?

We knew waiting for the Milwaukee County absentee ballots

to come in and shirt up when they did.

It was numerically significant enough

to flip quote unquote from Walker to Evers.

Even in the terms of just say flip implies something.

You say a ballot dump implies something.

These, there's no flipping that the score is the score.

It may change, but there's no flipping.

No ballot dump.

These ballots are there.

They're just not allowed to be counted beforehand.

Well, not under current laws.

So it seems like we should have some bipartisan support

because of course, counting these ballots late at night

and then having the specter of a recount

or whatever the case may be.

And for otherwise, just people that are dedicated

to elections officials, but we have so many of them

in the state of Wisconsin.

We have like 1,835 decentralized elections locations.

And there's a lot of ballots to count, right?

And then you add on the absentee ballots,

you can't start counting them until the polls

close under current law.

And it gets to be a really late night

then like 1.32 o'clock in the morning,

Milwaukee County comes in, Dane County comes in,

and the math seemingly turns from red to blue

because all the reds, at least especially

have late during the pandemic years,

well, they were only voted in person.

They didn't like these absentee ballots.

Plies, you're weak somehow.

I mean, if you don't want to go out to the polls

or leave them for a present,

they literally says that there's fraud.

There's fraud.

Absolutely, ballots cause fraud

or if it's involved, it's fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud.

Well, okay, so that brings us to today

and a resolution, a proposed piece of legislation

that would solve the problem,

let them count the ballots earlier.

Well, wait, I mean, this is good governance.

We're gonna, we have a problem counting the ballots,

maybe start them a little earlier

and then they won't have to worry about doing it

so late at night and it won't have the specter of impropriety.

Well, that'd be a wonderful thing.

Yeah, but here's the problem.

The Senate author of the bill,

your buddy Devin Le Maneu has killed the bill

or at least he's not advancing it forward

and apparently it's because of the concerns

of your senator, Dan Canodal,

who expressed it was really about the concerns

and I want to make sure I get this properly.

Don't let me check my notes here.

The concerns of the, what, the alleged

Philoneus election rigor, Chenelle Branchon.

Rep, Chenelle Branchon.

Rep, Chenelle Branchon.

It's her concerns that underlighten Canodal's concerns,

which are the reason that Le Maneu

won't bring the bill he authored to the floor

that would actually solve the problem

because the woman that would rig elections

in the state of Wisconsin, at least financially

had no qualms, breaking campaign finance rules.

According to the Wisconsin Ethics Commission last week.

And she's the same one that thought

what we should have overturned

the certified outcomes of Wisconsin's last election

in the 2020, you know, because she didn't like the outcome.

I felt like it was a jam job for her guy

because he said it a lot and she's seemingly quite gullible.

Oh, dude, does her credibility, depending on the point of view?

Maybe both.

Can it be both?

I think it can be.

Does the credibility of Rep Branjan be called into question

if she's going to so obviously,

Philoneus Lee circumvent campaign finance limits?

To what?

To get their mega candidate, Adam Steen, in this case,

in in order to satisfy Donald Trump

because what, Assembly Speaker Robin Boston

do exactly what Donald Trump wanted to do?

Well, I think you're starting to catch on.

No, I'm seeing this.

I'm seeing it.

I think you'd have to question her credibility.

I think you'd have to question her motives.

You certainly have to question whether or not

you would hold up a perhaps bipartisan bill,

which I think it would be if people want to solve this problem.

Maybe, maybe you shouldn't be concerned

about what General Branjan is concerned about.

Well, here's a little of the coverage from the journal

sentinel.

Senator Majority Leader, Devin Matthew,

is signaling he won't seek a vote on a bill

that would allow election clerks to start processing

absentee ballots the day before election day,

despite once authoring the proposal himself.

I am so against this bill, I won't.

Down by refusing to bring the bill to the floor

before lawmakers in a journey for the year,

Senate Republicans are leaving open the door

for more false claims by former president, Donald Trump,

about the integrity of Wisconsin.

Oh, there we go.

There's the motivation.

Flosible rigging.

We want to be able to make the accusation

because you know he's not going to win.

And just after losing reelection in 2020,

Trump claimed late night ballot dumps in Milwaukee

where to blame for his loss,

falsely implying illegal votes were cast,

election workers, including a Milwaukee,

may not count absentee ballots until election day.

In Milwaukee, that means processing

at times 100,000 ballots will also administering the polls.

Very uncomplicated, right?

Why would we seek this pressure, this bottleneck?

Well, of course, so Trump can claim it's rigged again.

The absentee ballots in Milwaukee in several other Wisconsin cities

are counted at a central facility

and the ballots results are posted all at once.

During large elections like the presidential in 2020,

results are often not ready until let's call it late at night.

Yeah, I remember a few of those late nights,

damn, and Trump used this practice to falsely claim

that large postings of results were instead a fraudulent dump,

much like he doesn't as depends allegedly dump a ballots

to doom his reelection.

And clerks and bipartisan lawmakers have pushed lawmakers

to allow them to start processing absentee ballots,

the Monday before election day,

to prevent voter confusion and conspiracies

that result from large amounts of ballots being processed late

and added to total sometimes changing,

which candidate is in the lead.

As one would predict, if one looked at the simple number

of outstanding absentee ballots that had not yet been counted,

let's say.

And how does Milwaukee County, Milwaukee County,

Dane County, how do they traditionally vote

and can you extrapolate what a predictive number would be?

Probably.

Come back with us, pure Michigan.

Diamond Crude on the road again for the love of democracy

to her 2024.

Thanks, Jetsons.

I'm Bill.

Thanks.

Rochester Corner Bar for hosting us.

We'll come back here.

You can always be a part eight, four, four, nine, six, seven,

two, seven, eight, nine.

We like a party.

We're going to have a political one right now.

The devil's advocates.

A political commentary from the back of the class.

Look back to the devil's evidence video show live

on the road again in Michigan, pure Michigan.

That's what we're bringing to here.

We are at the Rochester Corner Bar Rochester.

That's just outside Detroit.

This is your old stomping grounds.

Yeah, right there.

We've drove up the road from here for many years.

It was very interesting when we arrived at Cousin Joe

as he's affectionately called on the radio.

When we arrived at his beautiful home,

and he's got a bit of a McMansion him and Nancy.

He is what a Chrysler executive or something related

to the auto industry.

High-falutin parts of the auto industry.

And he actually got me a green sheet.

Thank you, Cousin Joe.

And we're not even Cousin, so he must be a big shot.

But I got to his house last night and he said,

welcome to my home.

I said, for the third time.

Hey, no, can you believe it, though?

It's the third presidential cycle

that we've come to Michigan.

And, Dom, I don't think there's the same amount of excitement.

Some of the luster of these primary have worn off here.

And I think, probably, because they're not competitive.

Last couple of times around, when we came to Michigan,

Michigan meant something.

Unless you're holding out hope for a Nikki Haley,

you know, Hale Mary pass.

I don't think there's going to be a lot of doubt

about what happens here in the state of Michigan.

But I want to talk about your cousin, Joe's wife, Nancy.

And I was quite impressed to learn.

Nancy is the mayor pro temp of Rochester, Michigan.

She's very involved in the local politics.

The mayor pro temp means effectively should the mayor

have some health consequence, something.

It's like being the vice mayor, right?

She's the vice president mayor.

She's the spare, but his fate would have it today.

She is the acting mayor of Rochester, Michigan.

Apparently, the number one guy is a little under the weather

who's got something of a stomach fling.

And there's a council meeting tonight.

So she's in charge.

And she is very active in the local politics.

And it's clear to me that she really likes this.

And she brought us over here, this Rochester quarterback

and Chris, the proprietor here,

was bragging about his experience

with the community of Rochester.

And what a positive interaction.

It's a small business owner.

And he's like, man, you should have seen some of the messes.

We had a clean up.

And he meant remodeling this restaurant.

And it's turned into a very nice space.

A very old building, a lot of work to do here.

A lot of remodeling, a lot of interactions

with the administration, the bureaucracy, the inspectors,

and all that.

And all that.

And Chris had very nice things to say

about the way Rochester worked.

And he was less complimentary

of some of the surrounding communities

who he had also interacted with and said they have a,

let's just say a differing attitude

to a small business.

So he loves it here.

And this is a nice community, man.

This is just a beautiful town, yeah.

And all the restaurants are nice.

And the downtown area is beautiful.

And Nancy is so clearly involved in her local politics.

But I teased her a little bit.

We saw her before we came to do the big show today.

And I said, Nancy, you know, some of the people here

in Michigan have been a little coy about their politics.

What is your politics?

If I may ask.

And she said, my politics are local, local, local.

Yes.

And that was it.

I would say that I would say this.

Very involved in local governance.

I think stays away from some of the politics.

That's, you know what I mean?

Governance, you mean the actual getting of stuff done?

Yes, absolutely.

As opposed to the comparing ideologies

and fighting from our respective blue and red corners.

Yes, I would agree.

She is in the business of getting things done

for her constituents.

And it was so obvious to me.

And she clearly takes some pride in the fact.

The fact that while we were here,

she was the acting mayor.

Today she is.

Yes.

Almost wonder if she slipped a mimic here.

So like, hey, I have a couple of extra cocktails

with Sunday night dinner.

I know.

I got family in town.

I want to be a big shot for a day.

So congratulations.

Cousin Nancy, the acting mayor of Rochester, Michigan,

and a very politically involved local person.

And when we went into Detroit today,

normally I make a drive, drive me straight to a diner, right?

Gotta go get the local eggs.

Yep.

See what's at the diner?

I usually can get some fresh fruit,

some crepes or something.

Went with some very patriotic French toast today.

Red, white, and blue, I had the blueberries

and the white cream and some red sauce.

It looked about 1200 calories, yes.

Oh, it looks very patriotic.

Real Americans, you patriotic French toast.

See what I did there with the French toast.

I see that.

But USA toast.

Some of the neighbors sitting next to us,

three gentlemen joining each other

and they had clearly finished their meal.

So I didn't mind approaching them.

You know, I'm not panhandling.

I just wanted to talk to the people.

Not today.

Not today.

So I did, I asked this group.

And the first one that responded said,

I didn't know there was a primary tomorrow.

And the second gentleman that responded

said, I am aware and I early absentee voted.

But you know, I believe it's alone.

We're enjoying each other's company or whatever.

He was nice, but you know, he didn't want to be interviewed.

He didn't want to be interviewed about his politics.

And that kind of became a theme of some of our day

and Detroit today, a lot of people,

you know, they said they had some political opinions,

but they were less interested in expressing them.

Well, perhaps not sure in them,

but some strains are off the street.

But we've never had that problem before.

Very rare.

I mean, I throw my dimples at people.

You give them the charming crew.

Well, you got to keep asking, right?

I smile and you usually get them.

And I usually get them.

But here's why I tell the story.

And we'll get to you on the phones.

Just a moment, be patient.

Tatar Billy, you're first in the QSOF.

You better be patient at 844-967-2789.

Here's the point.

Immediately after I said, yeah, thanks, gentlemen.

You know, don't mean to bother you and set back down.

But now I'm like three feet away from him, right?

I can still hear these guys talking.

And I was proud of nothing else.

The one guy that had voted early absentee said that,

you know, there were some local issues on the ballot.

And he wanted his friends to be considerate.

And you know, you can get a democratic primary ballot

or you can get a Republican primary ballot.

Literally educating them how it worked.

Yeah.

And myself, and this term they use locally,

millage, the schools have a millage,

which is similar to the referendum in Wisconsin.

Only my impression, only because Mayor Pro Temnancy

was explaining this, they must have one in Rochester

as well.

Part of the millage is to continue the funding mechanism,

make it an ongoing thing.

At least that's my takeaway as Nancy explained it to me.

I heard this gentleman explain to his neighbors

and he talked about voting in Camden.

He said in Camden, we've got a millage, it's on the ballot.

I think you should vote for it.

You know, that is obviously support the public schools.

And you know, I pointed out in the state of Wisconsin

for so often down, because of the gerrymandering.

And this is the way I tried to explain our politics

to the Michiganders, who maybe look and say,

well, you know, you're blue at the top of the ticket.

You got Tony Evers, you got Chash Kall,

hell, you got Tammy Baldwin.

How'd you end up with Ron Chash?

He said that's a long, longer story.

But then you look at our congressional delegation.

It's six Republicans and two Democrats.

Well, that's gerrymandering at least in part.

And you look at the state legislature

and it's two thirds Republican,

yet they rarely win a state wide election.

Republicans do.

You know, they get 45% of the vote

and they get 63%, 66%.

Doesn't seem right.

Well, that's because it's the most partisan gerrymander

in America.

And the will of Wisconsin Nights

doesn't often come through the legislative actions

of these Republicans.

Even what Republicans express is their will

isn't reflected in the legislation

coming through these houses.

And I'm looking at you, Robin Voss.

But the kicker in the state of Wisconsin,

and this was the old trick all the way back

to Scott Fitzgerald Dayson,

I had a friend who was a school administrator

and he got up there in front of these Republican leadership

and they said it allowed.

We're never gonna raise your revenue.

We'll make you raise your own taxes.

You can go raise your own taxes through referendum

and we're never the bad guys.

Well, in the state of Michigan, I was encouraged.

If nothing else, when they talked about local politics

and just being civically minded,

everyone thought it was a good idea

to vote for the millage for their local schools

to continue to fund through the local mechanisms.

Yes, that's the rate on their taxes.

Millage rate is the rate that they pay for property taxes.

So if that rate goes up,

then they're funding more towards the schools.

844-967-2789.

Tatar billy, still there.

No, we lost.

Oh, man, Tatar.

Now you got me disillusioned

for all other callers for a while.

844-967-2789.

But we came to this nice restaurant last night

and I ate my share and I had some cocktails.

And then we went back to cousin Joe and Nancy's house

and dumbed their basement.

The 80s basement.

Heads of vol.

I mean, I've been to the house three times.

Last time was four years ago during the presidential cycle.

First time around, we went to Flint, Michigan for a debate.

We stayed by Joe and Nancy's house.

That was the Bernie Sanders Hillary Clinton debate.

I got to ask Bernie Sanders that day.

Bernie, you got to win Michigan.

Ask me on Tuesday night.

Well, unfortunately, by Tuesday night,

Bernie was down in Florida with some seaweed in his teeth.

But he was on the TV expressing his victory

in the state of Michigan.

And that was an unexpected victory

during the Democratic presidential primary.

And of course, in 2020, Joe Biden was here.

We saw this happen later in the presidential cycle.

Did we not?

I forget precisely.

I believe we were here.

And Biden and many of the others were debating.

And it was at the Red Wing Stadium.

I actually think that we were down in town.

Yeah.

We saw Ben Wickler, the Wisconsin Democratic Party chair.

We introduced him to a few friends.

He was still newer at that time in that role.

But I think that was probably late early fall of 2019.

It was nice out.

Yeah, it wasn't like cold like Flint.

No, and we did have an opportunity at that trip.

Did you interview Dana Nassel through a little napatism

on your side?

Thanks, Tommy.

Yeah, so call Tommy.

See if we can get Dana Nassel on the show tomorrow

before we roll out of Michigan.

But we're here for the primary.

And I got to tell you, Dom, I didn't

feel that same energy on the streets,

but it's not a competitive primary here in the state of Michigan.

And in fact, some of the action and some of the questions

I did ask of people on the street,

there's a movement underway to undermine

the president in his basically unchallenged Democratic

primary, right?

Send a message.

Send a message.

And the message was much like Nikki Haley had to deal with.

And I believe that was in the primary in Nevada,

where none of the above or none of these candidates

was a choice and actually beat Nikki Haley.

There are many young progressives here

in the state of Michigan and those

that would be a little disillusioned by US foreign policy

currently in regards to Gaza, those

that are Palestinian supportive.

There's a movement of foot to vote non-committed.

Uncommitted?

Uncommitted to effectively say none of the above

in the Democratic primary to send a message of sorts.

And we'll see what sort of numbers,

how impactful this movement has been.

But when I asked people about it,

people seemed a little sour on the whole movement.

They didn't like this idea.

And most of the people we spoke to were older.

We met many African-Americans in Cadillac Square

and Detroit.

This was at least demographically probably

a better sample of Americans than we're often able to find.

Certainly at a Trump rally or Iowa or Iowa.

Yes, demographically, a lot more people

and a lot more African-Americans

and a lot more Biden supportive.

But no one seemed too keen on this idea.

And maybe it's because we didn't find

any young progressives to talk to us on the street today,

damn, but I didn't see a lot of support

for sticking it to Biden.

The campaign, according to the Time Magazine,

called Listen to Michigan, encouraging voters

to vote uncommitted, quote unquote, uncommitted

in the state's primaries.

Tomorrow, the Democratic primary election

is an opportunity to question whether

the incumbent genuinely holds a support

of his own party's base.

It's gotten significant support,

according to the Time Magazine, endorsed by Detroit's Metro Times

and the Democratic Socialists of America's

local and national chapters.

Folks, where are the double-sapkets road tripping?

Purely Michigan style primaries tomorrow in the state.

I'm not sure if many of them have heard.

Maybe it's the lack of TV advertising.

Now, some of the other primary states I've been to,

like Nevada, Iowa, it's in the ads.

I haven't seen too many political ads.

More double-sapkets.

We'll be back.

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wrapping up our first of three hours, 844-967-2789.

You know, our friend, John Nichols, at the cap times,

writes on this very topic, Michigan Democrats

want to send Biden a message about Gaza.

I'm going to read a little from John's column, again,

at the cap times.

Former Michigan US rep, Andy Levin,

is a veteran union organizer who

comes from one of Michigan's most prominent Democratic families.

He knows Joe Biden, and he supported the president in the past.

He wants very much to see Donald Trump defeated in November.

But Levin is not urging Michigan Democrats

to vote for Biden in the state's primary tomorrow,

Democratic presidential primary.

Instead, he's arguing they should cast an uncommitted vote

in order to signal to the president

that he must end US support for Israel's assault on Gaza,

which has left almost 30,000 Palestinians dead.

Levin, who during his time as a member of the House,

emerged as one of Congress's most ardent advocates

for peace and justice in the Middle East,

is one of many Michigan Democrats who

worried that Biden could lose the battleground state

this fall and within the White House

because of the president's refusal

to demand a ceasefire in Gaza and his ongoing support

for US military aid to Israel.

Here's a quote from Levin, his father, a former senator,

as a Michigander, unconcerned about the impact

that Biden's funding of Israel's war

will have on our fight against Trump and for democracy.

I'm hearing from so many, especially young people,

the thousands of innocents dying under US bombs

and warplanes makes them feel ashamed.

A little bit more here, Dom.

Levin's not alone in worrying that the Biden Administration

support for Israel's prime minister,

Beton Benjamin Netanyahu's government

and the war at launch in Gaza following the October 7th

mass terrorist attack, and Israelis,

the Israelis' kibbutz and musical festival

will prove so unpopular in Michigan,

a state with a large and politically influential

Arab-American population that Biden could lose

in November to Trump, US Rep. Rashida Talib,

a Palestinian-American Democrat who represents communities

with some of the largest Muslim populations

in the United States has warned.

American Muslims, in Arab-Americans,

do not feel represented by our government right now.

And Levin, who's a Jewish-American,

who has clashed with the Netanyahu-aligned political groups,

such as the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee,

Talib, as a Palestinian-American,

was one of the first two Muslim women elected to the US House.

They're trying to send Biden a message

about the moral urgency of supporting a cease-fire in Gaza

and about the political urgency

of addressing the concerns in Michigan,

the concerns of Michigan voters regarding

the assault on Palestinians.

Both of them are supporting the listen to Michigan campaign

that urges voters in the state's Democratic primary

to skip over Biden's name

and support the uncommitted option on the ballot.

This is the way you could raise our voices to leave,

said in a video.

Right now, we feel completely neglected

and just unseen by our government.

Talib, who actively campaigned for Biden

in the fall of 2020, says she backs an uncommitted vote

in the primary because it's also important

to create a voting block.

Something that is a bullhorn to say enough is enough.

And we don't want a country that supports war

and bombs and destruction.

We want to support life.

We want to stand up for every single life killed

in Gaza, down the listen to Michigan campaign

is gained significant traction as the primary approaches.

It is backed by more than 30 Democratic elected officials,

including Dearborn Mayor Abdullah Hamad,

who leads a city with one of the largest

Arab-American populations in the U.S.

and state-reb Abraham Al-Asha.

I'm not sure that I got that right.

The party's majority leader

and the state house of representatives

and the listen to Michigan effort.

It has also been endorsed widely by the circulated

Metro Times newspaper and Detroit

and it got the backing of Detroit's well-established

Democratic Socialist of America local

and the National Progressive Group, our revolution.

In a letter to 87,000 our revolution supporters

of Michigan 11 wrote,

we need to send President Biden a message.

We are outraged by a U.S. complicity

in the destruction of Gaza,

the killing of thousands of civilians,

including more than 10,000 children

and it must all caps, stop.

While the letter expressed opposition to Biden's policies,

it was not an anti-Biden mischief.

In fact, Levitt wrote,

our revered, our rev supporters can push Biden to change.

Coruscant Gaza now increases chances

of winning Michigan in November

because we must defeat the right wing Trump agenda.

It's hard to see how Biden can be Trump without Michigan.

That's because the state is part of the blue wall,

you know, along with Wisconsin and Pennsylvania,

that is proven to be critical

for Democratic presidential prospects

in recent years.

In 16, Hillary Clinton lost the blue wall states

to Republicans and Trump became president.

In 2020, Trump lost the states to Democrats

and Biden became president.

This year, Biden is holding his own in Wisconsin

and Pennsylvania, but he's trailing in Michigan.

And every poll published since November,

Trump held the lead sometimes by as much as eight to 10 points.

Biden's weakness with Arab American voters,

young voters, and others who are concerned about Gaza

as seen as a key explanation

for why he's having trouble in Michigan.

A state where he carried in 2020

by more than 150,000 votes,

but he rebinded Wisconsinites.

That was not the margin in our state.

And a state where Democrats controlled the governorship,

other statewide posts, and the legislature,

that suggests Levitt is why Michigan Democrats

are trying to get a message to Biden

with the uncommitted campaign.

I feel this is existential for Joe Biden's political survival.

I don't see how he wins reelection

without winning Michigan.

And I don't see how he wins Michigan

without changing course.

So says our friend John Nichols, of course,

at the cap times in the nation, nationally.

Crudy, on this very topic,

apparently Time Magazine reported that Dearborn alone

has seen 6,000 requests for absentee ballots

compared to 2,200 in 2020.

Perhaps some increase in the uncommitted voters.