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Now live from the Civic Media Studios in Madison, Wisconsin, where the political party is just
beginning, welcome to the Devil's Advocates Radio Show.
Friends proving it's never personal, only politics.
And now, here's your host, Dom and Crout.
Welcome to the Devil's Advocates Radio Show.
Freaky Friday edition, welcome to it, my little buddy.
Hey, pretty good to see you, Nate, as well, our fair audience, happy, happy Friday to us all.
You know, the weather here, at least where I'm at.
glorious.
Oh, man, beautiful out there.
Topstown?
Topstown, dude, I got, I got the 76ldo out today because I haven't put the top up yet.
So I'm like, well, today's the day, but I had to take it out for a little run before I put the
top up and put it away for the winter.
You think it's the last nice day we'll get?
I mean, like this, I literally, you know, I got it.
It's a very fancy Cadillac.
And so it's got a thermometer on it on the side driver side mirror.
And it was pushing 60, man.
It was getting real close to 60.
So yeah, it was fantastic.
What a beautiful day.
glorious day.
Welcome to the big show.
You know, it's only better here on the radio, Dom.
We've got a big show.
Ellen Robinson, our friend and fine sponsor from herbal aspect.
Gonna bring us some 420 facts in the short run, Dom.
And also a late, but fine booking by yours, Julie.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Democratic Party Wisconsin chairman, Ben Wickler.
How much work on today?
How about Friday, even 430?
Barely working.
I've told you, man, outside recess kind of day.
Yeah, right.
So we got a couple of fine guests.
A few more, maybe secret super secret guests.
Maybe we'll see, but Dom, the headline of the day,
a couple of them important ones.
What's your buddy cheese, bro, do?
Oh, what do you do?
I mean, cheese bros trying to stay out of prison.
Cheese, bro, apparently, you know, talking with other states
and their attorney generals.
And apparently, perhaps according to CNN,
right here in the great state of Wisconsin.
Does cheese, bro?
Not no snitches get stitches.
No, man, I mean, he's making deals all around town.
Absolutely.
He should, man.
He's got the young wife of the place in the islands, man.
He doesn't want to blow it.
You know, for what?
For Trump, come on.
Play ball in.
Play ball here in the state of Wisconsin.
Attorney Josh called maybe, maybe not.
We don't know.
No comment on whether or not there is or is not
an ongoing or no investigation.
But the reporting seems to imply just that.
Should we jump in just for a little bit CNN?
Let's lead here, the pro Trump lawyer who helped devise the 2020 fake
electors plot and already pled guilty to the conspiracy in Georgia is now
cooperating with Michigan and Wisconsin state investigators.
That's the closest thing we've had to a confirmation that there might
actually be investigations going on here in the great state of Wisconsin.
So new news to us here.
But apparently the cheese bro cooperating with Wisconsin state
investigators in hopes of avoiding more criminal charges.
Multiple sources told CNN and a dramatic turn around from 2020 when the lawyer
kidded cheese, bro.
Some say cheese, bro.
Was at a center of the efforts by former president Donald Trump to
subvert the electoral college and overturn his defeat.
Cheese, bro, is now helping investigators in at least four states.
One, two, three, four states.
It's a lot of states to be cooperating and who are looking into the scheme.
They call it dumb cheese bro's cooperation in Wisconsin is the first
indication the state attorney's general office has launched its own investigation
into the false slate approach from electors.
Wisconsin attend a attorney general.
Josh call a Democrat has not publicly announced the investigation is underway.
Last time I asked our pal Josh call on this very topic.
Feel like I've done this every summer.
Usually I see him at the DPW interview them.
And he gave me some multi jurisdictional stuff.
And this year I talked to issues in and he's the D.A.
of Dane County where I live, Madison, where the crimes
at the Capitol were committed.
Yes.
And ish gave me the impression that because of some weird quirk of Wisconsin state
law that this might actually fall to the local D.A.'s.
But dumb.
If cheese bros cooperating with the Wisconsin D.O.J.,
that's probably going to make it a good weekend for me.
Oh man, I cannot wait to celebrate Josh call day.
CNN continues.
Cheese bros also recently testified to a grand journey in Nevada where indictments
against six fake electors were announced Wednesday by state prosecutors.
Additionally, cheese bros has been in contact with prosecutors in Arizona where he plants
to sit for an interview as part of the state's ongoing investigation into fake electors.
CNN previously identified cheese bros and under the co-conspirators co-conspirator
and special counsel Jack Smith's federal indictment against Trump where the former president
has charged with organizing the fake director scheme to disenfranchise millions of voters
and unlawfully remain in power.
There's no one to case in cheese bros cooperating in the federal probe or that Smith has ruled out
charges against him.
And they go, I was kind of an attorney general office declined to comment as did cheese bros lawyer.
I'm still taking a little hard out of this story.
Oh man, it raises my optimism.
The glass is half full today, half full I tell you.
It's certainly encouraging and I hope this is the case.
There's a lot there.
They basically said it now.
They didn't have been any guilt, right?
They all we won't do it again.
You're talking about the civil case that was just decided.
We had Jeff Mandel from law forward on just what two days ago down.
And if you miss that fine interview, it's going to make a fine best of this weekend.
Two then.
I think we played out at five o'clock on both Saturday and Sunday afternoons.
Law forward, man, they're very busy people these days.
But in that case, as you mentioned, Crudy,
they said, yeah, we did it.
We did it to overturn the election and we won't do it again.
But they didn't pay any civil.
There's no money being exchanged.
They did what?
With law, the fraudulent documents, that's good.
I guess first time that's happened.
So, Josh, call a man.
You know, I've always been critical,
but try not to be too too critical,
because just in case something like this came up, maybe.
Just maybe there's something going on behind the scenes.
And apparently, that might be the case, at least in investigation.
So, yeah, how about some, some,
what's some indictments?
That'd be good.
That'd be good.
Some subpoenas, perhaps.
That's fine.
We're going to start.
Let's celebrate.
Josh, call day up in here, round here.
Damn soon.
To be continued.
Let's hope.
Now, I want to get to a differing piece.
Part of the reason why we've invited Ben Wickler,
the Democratic Party Chair of Wisconsin on.
You know, this might come as a shocker to you,
but Wisconsin will be a pivotal one of the few pivotal swing states
in the next, the next year, the next election year.
And for those of us that make our living in this crazy field of politics,
guys like you and I and Ben Wickler,
well, you know, it's going to be a fun and crazy year,
damn, a little bit from the body of the work here at the Washington Post.
Here's what I found interesting down just a few of us get to decide.
The Washington Post analysis found that just one in four Americans lived in such areas in 2021
and for living areas that actually matter during a presidential election.
Your vote actually could affect the electoral college outcome.
Just one in four voters.
That was in 2020 down from roughly three and four in an earlier period.
If the major parties do not contest Florida in 2024,
it's as widely expected, only 18% of Americans live in a battleground.
Lucky us.
The largest part, pardon me, the targeted voters in the decisive states should expect
a barrage of communications on their phone in the mail from their friends, family,
and colleagues over radio from the Washington Post lips to God's ears.
Television streaming services and social media networks,
the rest of the country's citizens will find themselves on the sidelines watching the news or
the occasional live candidate event with a diminished voice in their own futures.
Their phone will still count, but it's unlikely to decide anything.
It's now getting to the point where you're probably talking about 400,000 people in three or
four states. That's what it's getting down to said Joe Trippie, a democratic strategist,
who's worked at presidential campaigns since time was just a wee lad.
It does mean that more and more people feel they don't have a say.
They don't have a say down.
The geographic sort of of Americans along partisan lines helps explain why most of the country
resides in a red or a blue state where the outcome of the two party races not in doubt.
If a candidate wins California by one vote or a million votes, the electoral college outcome
is the same giving candidates no incentive to campaign in places where the outcome can be
predicted. 33 states, including giants such as California, New York, and Texas,
have voted for the same party in each presidential election dating back to 2000.
So, Dom, that means there's only certain states that really matter in Wisconsin is one of those states.
Let's jump forward to some of the battleground states.
States like the state of Wisconsin, Dom, you got some of the quotes here?
Yeah, Ben Wechler, our guest at 430, he's quoted in the Washington policies,
the democratic party chair in Wisconsin said he begins with the assumption that both major parties
in his state will get 48% of the vote, though the identity of those voters changes from cycle
to cycle, depending on turnout. Here's his quote, we look for inconsistent voters who will
probably vote for a Democrat if they vote, and then we look at ticket splitter or swing voters.
At the Biden campaign, the early betting is that the outcome of next year's election will
again be very close with the margin. Once again, hinge in on tens of thousands of votes in a few states.
Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton won 2016 popular vote by 2.9 million votes or 2%,
could have won the electoral college if, if, about 80,000 people in Michigan, Pennsylvania,
and Wisconsin voted differently. In 2020, about 45,000 votes in Georgia, Arizona,
and Wisconsin could have changed the outcome of the race, even though Joe Biden won the popular
vote by more than 7 million. Let's see, a little states are very familiar, the better than the news
lately, right? Georgia, Arizona, Wisconsin, fraudulent electors, right? Here I'm saying I'm seeing
a throughput here, man, this seems very familiar to me. If you could just find me 11,780 votes,
one more than I need, right? Earlier this week, we saw the false electors, I would say the
criminally false electors here in the state of Wisconsin, settle a civil lawsuit,
where they accepted the fact that Joe Biden won the election in 2020. Don, I thought it was a
nice step forward for history sake. Are you freaking kidding me? You know, it is coming crashing
down soon, but as I do the electoral math, Donald Trump will still probably be the Republican
nominee before any conviction comes in trial. I don't see any math that's going to keep him
from being the Republican nominee. Come back, we got to find sponsor, a friend of gas,
he is Ellen Robinson from herbal aspect, and Ben Wickler, Democratic Party Chair, coming very soon.
The Devil's Advocates Making Radio Great Again
And we're back from the before 20 break. Thank you for listening to the Devil's Advocates
Radio Show. If you missed any of this fine program, go, please go to civicmedia.us.
Click on the shows tabs unless it's with Devil's Advocates.
Dominic, I've got a fine guest, a paid sponsor. He's our friend, Ellen Robinson from herbal
aspect. He's in the Mad Radio 92.7 FM studios in Alan. First of all, welcome back.
Hey, thanks for having me. I understand tomorrow. What's up, Tom? Mark's an enormous
occasion in your cannabis educating of the people. Yeah, man. Tomorrow was graduation day.
Who's graduating from what? First off, I'm super excited about it. I'll tell you what. So
quick here, shout out to Brandy Grayson and Urban Triage for their amazing partnership in
getting us this cannabis agriculture and business development class. And if you're unaware, she does
the show black convergence right here in WMD accent Thursday nights. I listened to some of it last
night in the car. Yeah, Brandy has a lot to say. That said, tomorrow we're going to be graduating six
incredible students. These folks have been growing their own cannabis plants over the last
90 days, some outdoor. Then we transferred them to indoor. We got about seven pounds of cannabis out
of this class for their first little crop. I feel pretty proud of them for that. And they also have
business plans and have developed products. So tomorrow as their graduation, they're going to give
us their pitches. You know, we have a group that is going to select whether or not decide whether
or not we're going to be able to invest in these products and potentially put them even on
herbal aspect shelves. So, effectively, you're graduating entrepreneurs of sorts and they've learned
the art of cannabis cultivation in a legal and safe way. Absolutely. Not only they learn
cannabis cultivation, but we talked them about the ethics of the cannabis space. We talked
them about the history of the cannabis space. I knew this guy in college had no cannabis ethics,
man. What does that look like? Briefly, I'm starting to interrupt. Yeah, man, safe, responsible
ethical sales, educating your customers, ensuring that your products are safe, tested, and
that they have the efficacy that you say that they will, right? And then also there's the
the brand building. There's so much that goes into running a business that most people just don't
understand, right? So setting up your LLC or how you're going to operate your business,
picking a name, deciding on your branding, figuring out how much your acquisition costs are,
and then your conversion costs. And finally, you're in retail product. There's just so much
that goes into it. It's starting to sound like math on the radio, man. It sounds like work, man.
Yeah, Dom, I've had a lot less cannabis today. Talk to you. We are talking with our friend
in fine sponsor. He is Ellen Robinson with herbal aspect. They give us some 420 facts each Friday
afternoon. They're graduating their first class young entrepreneurs learning this cannabis culture
from the inside, from the expert. And Ellen, you're your cannabis entrepreneur, man, herbal aspect.
You guys still doing the the expert treatment. You know, teaching the people about the cannabis,
because first and foremost, we should say this is the legal FDA approved state law approved federal
law approved cannabis. It's all safe and legal here. But it's not all the same and people need
to learn if they want to know what they're consuming. And you're the guy. Yeah, man, I'm the guy.
I'll tell you what, real quick here, we were just featured in blueprint 365,
shout out to Rob Chappelle, you know, the Madison 365 guys.
One of the things that we strive for is educating our customer. Rob was able to highlight that
really well in the article. And of course, that's why I'm here on your show,
crudey to invite the people to get a free cannabis consultation, your customer, or I'm sorry,
your listeners, excuse me, log on. I like to think of them as as friends and CJ. Oh, word and
CJ. If he took some cannabis, he might chill out. You know, he might be the ideal candidate
CJ. You should go to herbal aspect dot com. You should sign up for a cannabis consultation.
Use the code word devil radio will get you that consultation at no cost. And then we can find
the right cannabinoid profile to help to Mellow you out.
Folks, you're listening to the devil's advocates radio show. That's our friend and sponsor,
Alan Robinson from herbal aspects. Alan, really interesting to hear about this graduating
community is class. This is really cool stuff. And I wish I'd known this 30 years ago.
But one of the things I'm curious about in the manufacturer and distribution and selling
of the product is the testing portion. One of the things I love about going to Illinois,
all the many states in Michigan, soon to be what Minnesota, you walk in, you get something off
the shelf, it's got to stick around and it tells you everything that's in it. It's got to check
mark. Does it have mold? Do they test these things? So when when when the product is ready,
where do you set? Where do you test it? Send it out somewhere. How do how do all that work out?
Yeah. So there's DEA certified labs that you can partner with to send a sample to, right?
Now, I was actually just talking with an advocate earlier this week, Bob from Let's Legalize
Wisconsin, I think is his name, Bob Hickey. And you know, he's got a program right now where he's
going into different shops and selecting samples to be sent off for testing to ensure that those tests
that they are putting forward are actually those same results. So what you got to do is you got
to go to a DEA certified lab and send them samples, right? And of course your manufacturing
partners or ours do also have those partnerships and we have then validated those partnerships so we
can get the heavy metal remediation, which we have like a new round of those coming up. We do them
annually. I'm sorry, semi annually and with different batches. You know, we have a question
from the audience, humbly speaking. I think you, Eleanor, missing a huge part of the market,
those of us who have dogs, what's your, your thought, the canine consumption of the cannabis?
I will tell you right now, Coco's cannabis gets are on the way. Many of you, some of you don't know,
but I will tell you this, you've got the greatest coolest dog of all time. Oh, man, I love this dog.
It's cannabis the secret. So Coco is super mellow, especially for a Frenchie. She does a lot of
the sleeping. That is because we do supplement her diet with a little bit of CBD. I will tell you
this. Our full line is coming. We do have pet CBD currently available. I am not a vet. And so
part of the reason that we've been waiting on rolling that line out is so that we can have
actual veterinarians collaborate with us in regards to building that out.
Well, one of the humans in the audience, Cindy from Wasa, shout out. He, Ellen,
the cannabis helps my CRPS and fiber of my algebra pain. Thank you again. Keep it up.
She said, you keep up the great work. And thank you for the continued education.
Oh, blessings. The 420 facts, man. Yeah, man. It's going down.
He's Ellen Robinson. He is with the herbal aspect, one of our fine sponsors, one of our partners
here at Devil Radio. And what's that graduation party going to look like tomorrow?
It's going to be stoning. No, it's going to be cool. We've got some or derves. We've got some,
we got some guest speakers. Senator A guard is going to be giving a graduating address.
It's going to be a good time, man. I'm excited. No, will the, will the diplomas be printed on
hemp paper? No, no, no, not getting hemp card stock. That's just a little bit, you know,
but they will be green. So that's cool. They will be green. Always this up in here.
Appreciate it. Ellen Robinson, our friend and sponsor partner over at the herbal aspect, herbal
aspect.com. Learned it up. Feel free to just use the code Devil Radio. Thank you, Ellen.
Coming next, we got Ben Wickler, Democratic Party of Wisconsin chair. You're going to want to
stick around. Thank you.
The Devil's advocates so relevant, they have one foot in tomorrow.
Welcome back to the Devil's Advocates video show. The Freaky Friday edition,
getting better right now. First and foremost, thank you to our friend and sponsor,
Ellen Robinson, herbal aspect for the 420 facts. And down we welcome back the Democratic Party
of Wisconsin chair. Right now he has been Wickler. I can think you're a friend as well. Ben,
thanks for answering the call. We got a little bit of a, um, echo feedback.
All right, let's try again. Ben, welcome to the show. First and foremost, I believe
the perhaps unbeatable Tammy Baldwin might have an opponent and Eric Hodeby. Tell us about
Laguna Eric. You know, when someone is voted one of Orange County, California's most
influential citizens, not once, but two years in a row. You know, they are all set to run for
United States Senate from the state of Wisconsin because Michael's kind of experience. This is
someone who runs a big bank, you know, how Wisconsin voters are just really excited about that
as, as what they're looking for in California. He lost a Senate primary to Tommy Thompson in 2012
to the guy who lost a Tammy Baldwin in 2012. Now he wants to run because I think he,
I guess he thinks that his message of eliminating the Affordable Care Act and banning abortion
and cutting social security is going to be a big hit with Wisconsin voters in 2024, which,
you know, it's amusing to think that that's a selling proposition. But the other side of the point
is he has a lot of money from that bank and all those other businesses. And we've seen this
playbook work out with people like Ron Johnson, who announced late. And then buy a bazillion ads
trying to paint a picture of themselves that's misleading. And if the Democratic candidates don't
have the resources to punch back fully and define what the race is about, it can get really hairy.
So we don't want to sleep on this race. And I want everyone to know that Tammy Baldwin,
landslide Tammy, who won by so much in 2018, she will need our help to ensure that she can put
this race to bed. And her election is necessary to the Senate majority. If we win, then her women's
health protection act, putting the protections of Roe versus Wade in the law, that could actually
have a shot at passing, especially if we win the house. If she loses, Republicans have been talking
about a national abortion man, Mike Johnson, the Republican speaker of the house, that's what he wants.
So the stakes are really high for things that affect people really directly, even if you've never
heard of Eric Hubby, get ready to go out and organize your reddit of feeding him.
Ben Wickler, the only reason I knew Eric Hubby was running for US Senate is because somebody got
in front of the candidate. He's got a very pretty logo sign that's been on the highway in
Washera County for about three months now. And that's not like a farmer side of the barn thing.
So I knew the candidate, or at least I knew this guy was going to run for US Senate. But I didn't
know the policies and, and Ben, this guy has got to lit me a bad policy. He's on the wrong side
of every aspect of history, at least historically with his efficacies. You're right, man, anti-abortion,
anti-social security. What is this guy for exactly that we would stand for? That we could say,
well, there's a moderate stance. I don't see many in his, in his resume.
I don't know either, man. I mean, this is a, this is a far right Republican. He's really kind of
from the, the plutocratic wing of the Republican Party. He's, seems like someone who,
let me give you an example, what I mean, Tammy Baldwin famously wrote this proposal in the
Affordable Care Act, that ensures that young people can stay in their parents' health insurance
until age 26. This is like incredibly popular, like 80-something percent support. Even Republicans
recognize this is the kind of thing you should keep in the law. When Hubby ran for Senate last
time, he was asked about that specific provision. And his answer was to start talking about how,
in his day, young people stood on their own two feet. I mean, come on, man. Like it jobs for,
you know, young people aren't offering health insurance. Why not let them stay in their parents'
insurance? But he wants the independence, pull them up by their own boots. Perhaps the
things are falling in my office. I'm so in sense about this. He's like, those kids should own a
bank so they can afford their own health insurance. And it's not going to fly here.
You know, it's strange. It's strange. I watched the undercard presidential debate. And we,
saw a few of the excerpts of the Trump Town Hall earlier this week with Hannity. You know,
when he declared himself a dictator on day one, but even the undercard debate, man, there was no
moderates on the stage. When I look at the contenders, the top five Trump plus the four also ran,
I wouldn't want to see any of them in the Oval Office. What was your impression of the debates in
the Trumpian Town Hall? I think you're really speaking to it exactly. It's like the whole Republican
party watch Trump in 2016. And then tuned out of the fact that he and this party lost in 18,
20, 2022, 20, 23, they're all just drinking Maga Kool-Aid. And they're just running in this kind of like
frenzied competition to see who can be even more extreme than the other ones. The people spouting
conspiracy theories and just outright lies. And this stuff, you know, that cheese card don't squeak,
as I like to say. Like this is just, it's just not what people are asking for in this state of
Wisconsin, maybe in maybe in South Carolina or Republican presidential primary. But if they want
to win the general election, this stuff is so out of right field. And I wish more people could
tune in to see these Republicans laying out their agenda. Because once you see it, it's hard to unsee.
Folks, you're listening to The Devils, advocates radio show. That's Ben Wickler. He is the chair of
the Democratic Party of Wisconsin. Ben, interesting article today in the Washington poll,
if kind of breaking down really how many, how few people will really end up deciding what happens
in the 2024 presidential race. Wisconsin, a very important state Ben, here we are, here we go again.
What's your sense on how concentrated this is? These elections are likely to be incredibly
close. And you know, it's easy to think back and we beat Trump by 7 million votes nationally
in 2020. But almost all those votes could have been thrown out and it wouldn't have mattered.
It came down in fact to 43,000 votes or 45,000 votes, excuse me, across Wisconsin, Arizona and
Georgia. And with 45,000 votes, that means if 23,000 votes had switched sides, then Trump would have
won in those three states, in our state and then in two other states. And just 0 and even more,
we lose Arizona and Georgia. Then Wisconsin by itself can determine the presidential election.
We had the same thing in 2016. We were the tipping point state. You threw out the two states that
were closer Michigan and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin again was the tipping point that put Biden over
the top and about 12,000 people switching sides in Wisconsin in either of those years would have
given Trump the presidency. And this is what we think about as we go into 2024. Like we are the
state of nail biders. We were probably the one of the three types of states in 2024 again.
The Republicans know it. They put their national convention here. Trump hired Ron Johnson's campaign
manager, who just won by 1 percentage point last year in Ron Johnson's reelection campaign.
He is like laser focused on our state. And the Biden and Harris campaigns know it too.
It's going to be this giant epic clash. And that means that every voter, everyone listening right
now, you and your friends and family, you have more power to shape the, whether American democracy
survives in 2024 than almost anyone has ever had an American history. It is, it's a ridiculous
way to run a democracy, but it's the way it is. And we've got to act accordingly.
Ben, if you read the headline and don't get into it and crunch the numbers and not in perhaps one
of those states like the state of Wisconsin, it will have an oversized influence on who becomes
the next president. What would you say the folks say, well, it may count, but it doesn't matter.
How do you, how do you get people motivated to vote in a state where, hell, you know, California,
you know, probably going to go down Florida, probably going to go Republican. How do you keep
people motivated to engage in the self-governance in some of those other kinds of states?
Let's say a couple things. First thing is in New York and California, big blue states,
house races flipped Republican in 2022 that gave Republicans control the house.
And now with George Santos out and probably Democrat about to win the election there,
you wind up with a four-seat Republican house majority, which means any place there's a competitive
house district, your vote matters, an enormous amount to the entire country. There's two pretty
red states, Montana and Ohio, where they have Senate elections in 2024. Those will be absolutely
defining for the U.S. Senate majority. So that takes a few voters off the table. But across the
rest of the country, you know, you can affect local offices, those things really matter,
primaries can really matter, but you actually don't have much of a voice, and that is bad.
I think that's a bad way to run a national election or national democracy. There's an idea
called the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which is basically a law that all these states pass
where they all agree that if enough states pass it in order to define who wins the presidential election,
then all the states will agree to give their electoral college votes to whoever wins the national
popular vote, which is kind of a long way of saying, if this bill passes in enough states,
then whoever actually wins the election by getting the most votes for president will win the election
and become president. That bill has passed in enough states, if once Michigan passes it,
which is happening pretty soon, it'll have passed in enough states for 220 electoral college votes,
which means it only has 50 left, about five states, five states, the size of Wisconsin,
fewer if you get a bigger state, to actually become the law, and that could happen before 2028.
So it is possible that this is the last election like this, where the electoral college is the
central story of a national presidential election. I hope so, because as much as I love Wisconsin
being at the center of the action, and I think I trust Wisconsin voters to get this dev right,
I also think it is a total disgrace that voters in the rest of the country don't have as much
voice as people here. We're supposed to be one person in one vote in this country.
Ben Wickler, Democratic Party of Wisconsin chair, I only care about one state bin, Wisconsin man.
So I would give in. Let's talk about the 4848 math, effectively, if I understood some of the
quotes, I guess they weren't direct votes, but you were referenced in the Washington posting,
effectively, it starts at about 48% Dems, 48% Republicans. So are we to believe there's only
about 4% persuadable here in the state of Wisconsin, or is it really more about
getting out those on our team that might be lower propensity voters?
So I spent a while talking to the reporter and the idea kind of came through in this Washington
post story, but what I said was look, you know, elections regularly come down to one
percentage point or less, and you sort of assume each side starts at 48%, but who those 48%
are changes enormously, overall turnout changes enormously. And if you look at, you know,
2016 compared to 2020, we had 300,000 more people vote in the presidential election.
This huge number, even though the margin only changed by, you know, it went from 23,000,
one way to 20,000 the other way, so it's 43,000 swing, there were hundreds of thousands more voters.
And that means you both have to focus on people who probably would vote Democrat if they voted,
but they might not vote and make sure that they vote and they vote for Democrats, and you need to
talk to people who are ticket splitters, which is one in 10 voters in our state in 2018.
And, you know, the swing voters who are, I think, maybe less numerous and make sure you're making
the case to them and the most powerful arguments, like the arguments around abortion and reproductive
freedom and democracy and, you know, these basic ideas of freedom, those are actually persuasive
both the people who need an argument for why it's worth voting and for people that might vote either
way or split their ticket. So those are the, we look for the big uniting arguments that bring
people together and push back against Republican extremism. And you don't write anyone off and you
don't take anyone off the table. That's the only way to win in Wisconsin. I'd like to take Derek
Van Orden off the table. Could we work on the third CD, Ben Wickler, the Democratic Party chair,
Van Orden is a Republican, something of a carbon pagger in his own regard to my opinion,
but he's serving and he's playing moderate, but, you know, the truth keeps outing. This,
this man is anything but a moderate and Brian style might be a little more entrusted or encrusted
down in the first, but that is still a competitive race. We could turn the balance of the Congress
here in the state of Wisconsin with a few strong electoral outcomes in the third and the first.
Ben, how do we make that happen? As absolutely right. So the first thing is we have, we have a primary
strong field in the third. We have one candidate. I know there's other people thinking about running
in the first congressional district. We need to make sure there's great candidates in the field.
You can you can pick your lane as far as the primary goes. The Democratic Party will be neutral
in the primary, but we are working already to organize voters in the first and third congressional
districts to fire these mega Republicans. Brian style doesn't make a lot of headlines,
but he votes with Donald Trump every step of the way, including against January 6th investigation,
including against impeachment. He's a apologist for Donald Trump at Trumpism.
Derek Van Orden is all that plus screaming at teenagers, whether they're in the capital or the
pre-dushy in the library. He just does not represent our state. So look, help us flip the house,
help us flip the second Senate, help us flip the White House, and let's take a crack at the state
legislature in 2024. There's a lot to do. I want folks to go to Whist Dems.org and sign up to volunteer.
Well, that's excellent, Ben, because I don't have to ask you the website address then. Happy
how to cut a year family. Ben, thank you for making a little time on this freaky Friday for the
Devil's Advocates. My pleasure. Thanks for having me, guys. I'm sure we'll talk again soon.
It's almost like Wisconsin's an important state. Thank you, Ben. More Devil's Advocates.
Phone lines open. 844-967-2789.
The Devil's Advocates. The fix for political junkies everywhere.
The Devil's Advocates radio show. Phone lines are open. Join us. Happy Friday to us all.
844-967-2789. Dominic, want to thank our most recent guest,
a fine one. Friend of ours, Ben Wickler, Democratic Party of Wisconsin chair. I understand
him. He's something of a rainmaker up in here. That man can raise some capital, some investment
in the Democratic Party causes the great state of Wisconsin, and we will need the resources here.
There's only a handful of states that really, really matter, and we absolutely are one of those
states. And sometimes the bamps change. But you know what? Wisconsin is never excluded from the
battleground states, seemingly, near as I can tell. So I look forward to it, Tom. I am excited about
what is to come here, because I think we're going to uphold small-dead democracy. And I think,
I think it could be a little bit of a blue wave, Tom, and with new legislative maps, you know,
I know it's wishful thinking at this point, but at least there's a plan and a lawsuit in place
with new legislative maps, man, that could change democracy in the state of Wisconsin for the first
time in 12 years. So that's what I'm looking forward to in 2024. That's a new year's resolution I
could live with. Change democracy. Hell actually have an output that is reflective of the will of the
people. Yes, that's that's that would be nice. But I mean, Ben makes a point. You know, certainly
tell me Baldwin. I know you she's undefeated and all this. You talk like that. It gets me a little
concerned. You know, hopefully he's going to come in with some money. You know, the mega's are
going to be out there supporting. They're going to try to drive drive him home. And we know that
there's going to be a lot a lot a lot of money spent. Yeah. And I see supporting already helped
he hasn't even spoke yet. He has a return calls for comments. Now with the press, but I bet he's
talking to the rich guys. But he talked to the U lines. All the rich people, right? Just like
Scott Mayer, he's a businessman from Franklin. He apparently is also going to be running. But we'll
see what happens if there's actually a primary. But if this is as important as we as we assume as
a post talks about and as Ben Wickler talks about, there's going to be a crap ton of money spent
in the state. And the dams and Baldwin, they're going to have to be able to serve and match and
spend more. It's going to be it's going to be a very expensive race. I I less clear that it's
purely about the expenditure of money. I think that there are differing ways to take an approach.
I think that Republicans and you know, I might see a lot of the world through the prison of
talk radio because it's what I do for a living and it's all I care about and read about and think
about because this is what I do. But I have known and we have known and we've talked about many times
the 81 right wing talk radio outlets that were here in the state of Wisconsin in 2016.
In unbeknownst to many of our liberal and progressive and democratic and moderate friends that
maybe don't live on the talk radio dial. Donald Trump does. And Ron Johnson did. And most Republicans
do and they benefit from all this free press. You know, we talked about what was the what was the
secret sauce? Thank you and I so much. Other than the racism they threw at Mandela Barnes. But
what was the secret sauce when a completely unacceptable unstate's been like guy like Ron
Johnson wins reelection in the state of Wisconsin. How did that happen? Well,
accordingly, he wasn't governing as much as going on every single right wing talk radio show
that would have him. We know he takes all colors. And it's free. And it's free and read Epstein
at the New York Times reported running up to the election 350 hours. I think he was up to 350 hours
worth of right wing talk radio interviews for free. That's in addition to the ongoing ads.
The ads right wing talk radio doesn't wait till three weeks before the election to start making
their point. They know the point of radio in those that are politically active people like you
but people on the right as well that pay attention and they care about their issues and they're
looking for guidance and they're looking. They want to hear these messages and the Republicans
started about a year out. And over the course of time, these repetitive radio messages and you
don't even hear them. You you don't even listen to traditional radio most of the time. And a lot of
our friends don't hear them because they're on country sticks and they're out there on rural AMs.
And you don't even know that this messaging campaign is kicking our ass over and over and over
again. And this is not billions being invested relative to the cost of TV flights down the down the
dial down the end last three weeks of the elective campaign. This is cheap. They're doing it on the
cheap. Radio is a very inexpensive medium. Don't have to transfer these beautiful pictures of guys
like us down. I mean, it changed the whole dynamic if they did, but I mean, oh, they utilize
radio. They use the host. They use the ads. They use the platforms. Well, here's what's changed.
You're listening to it. This radio network did not exist prior. And I don't think this will go
without impact in the next elective campaign. You know, in the third week, we tease ITs, ITs air quotes,
Ben Wickler, the third. I care a lot about the third. I went to college in the third. Me and you,
we were roommates. We became buddies in the third. That's LaCrosse. That's Southwestern Wisconsin.
And Ron Kine, former DAF LaCrosse, although he wasn't the guy that put me away,
Ron Kine served admirably, sort of moderately, sort of a blue dog guy. But now we've got Derek
van Orden in the third. Oh, man. But you know, civic media made a commitment, sage Wilde,
owner of civic media, made a commitment to the third CD. I could point, but he bought him.
And there are five civic media talk radio stations played in the third CD right now. We got two
playing in the first right now, covered Brian style's district as best we can.
So you got the tools time to use them. Somebody built a warm fuzzy blanket of coverage them.
Others might call it a death star, but I like to call it a warm fuzzy blanket. Are you calling
yourself a cold? Are you a tool? Oh, just like you are. Absolutely. I'm a tool. I am a hammer and talk
radio is is my passion as you well know. And this is what we do. And we have fun here and we enjoy
ourselves and we get to know people. I mean, we're flyover country for everybody else, but we live
here. We go out there and we meet the people we talk to them every day on the radio. I love this
state. Man, I wear this red Badger hat proudly. It's not a bag of hat. Don't don't misinterpret those
looking on the street. Lengthen well at the Trump rallies, Rudy. I wore this red Badger hat
all across the nation, man. People love the state of Wisconsin. A, we know how to party. B,
we got great sports teams. My badgers are going to beat number one Arizona tomorrow in two
side. You heard it here first. I made the Marquette prediction last weekend. I'm making the
Arizona win prediction money line. And I'm just saying, man, Badgers are bust. This is the only
state that matters to me. Shout out WCPT Chicago, KT Adop and theapolis. And all our friends all across
Wisconsin, listening on the civic media, warm fuzzy blanket of coverage.
