Coach Chuck Smith on NIL, Wisconsin recruiting classes and working with NBA players

All right, welcome in We're joined today by coach extraordinaire Chuck Smith Many in Milwaukee might know him.

We're here at the home of WNLV in the Milwaukee Courier.

How you doing today Chuck?

I'm doing amazing man.

Thank you for having me on

yeah You know you've done a lot in coaching you played as well I saw you recently on

basketball immersion program.

You were talking about how Mark Pope was obviously a Kentucky legend, won a championship there in the 90s, played for the Bucks for a little bit, so people in Milwaukee are pretty familiar.

You said it was an inspiration for you for some of your schemes.

Can you kind of talk about how Pope inspired you and any other coaching inspirations you have?

Yeah, so first I'll start with...

How I came about with the whole Mark Pope situation, so I worked for an organization an AAU organization by the name of Chapman basketball Academy Ran by a coaching mentor of mine Joe Chapman And Joe's a really brilliant offensive mind and Mark Pope basically has this continuous

pick and roll motion offense that he runs.

And I think it's an offense that is something that I wanted to do early on in my coaching career.

I just didn't have the background knowledge or the exposure to high level offenses or.

to other great coaches out there.

And Joe Chapman kind of exposed me to this Mark Pope offense.

He doesn't really run in much now at Kentucky.

But when he was at BYU with guys who were less athletic, guys that couldn't get off the ground as much, but really high IQ thinkers, this was an offense that really helped those type of guys be able to get downhill, be able to get open shots and so on and so

forth.

Yeah.

Is there anyone else?

You know, in the coaching ranks, whether college or MBA that you kind of draw inspiration from?

Yes.

Oh, man.

Joe Missoula from the Celtics.

Tiago Splitter from the Portland Trail Blazers.

Steve Kerr, of course.

Billy Donovan is one of my favorites.

Man, there's so many great coaches in the MBA.

Mike Brown.

I mean, guys, even in the NBA G League, Cody Topper, that he's the head coach of the Capital City Go-Go, Field Pressy, who coaches the main Celtics.

Coach Mark over at OKC, of course, really great coach.

I'll say a couple of Milwaukee guys as well.

That inspires me.

My guy, Damonte Bynum, who's over at Martin Luther High School, he's a really, really great coach, coach that heritage Christian a couple years back, got them to a sectional final.

one game away from state, which has never been done in their history.

He's a really good coach.

My God, Ben Haley over at Milwaukee Mesmer.

He's a really good coach.

Somebody I talk exes and those with.

So, yeah, I'll say those two refer for

right now.

Let's get into Missoula a little bit.

What about Missoula, you know?

He's kind of a villain in

these

parts.

But you know, what about Missoula is appealing?

So I think Joe Missoula goes outside of basketball to help with his on court performance as a coach.

So he'll go he'll go and study coaches in the Champions League for football or soccer that we say in America.

He'll go study those guys and learn from them.

He'll go do some UFC stuff.

He's big in UFC.

He'll go watch some baseball coaches, but he also so quick interjection I'm a teacher by trade taught for 11 years and Joe Missoula works with this Education juggernaut by the name of Doug Lamar and Doug Lamar created these books called teach like a champion So he has like a thousand teaching strategies for up-and-coming teachers to improve their teaching and Joe Missoula actually takes like

the framework of a teacher and he applies that same type of environment within the basketball realm.

So he understands that not one player thinks the same.

He tries to integrate all different types of learning within his philosophies, within his practice plans, within his lesson plans and so on and so forth that he does on a court.

Is that something you do as well drawn from other sports?

Yes.

So I watch a lot of football, American football.

specifically cornerbacks and specifically wide receivers, right?

Seeing how the receiver tries to get off the line when a cornerback jams him, it's kind of like when a point guard has the ball and he has a pesky defender, you know, guarding them, how can he still be physical but break that contact and get that aggressive defender off of him so that he can get us into our offense.

Things like

that.

Let's get into your background a little bit.

I mean, I don't want to go over your whole resume, but You played college ball in Arizona for a little bit and then you went to MATC Shortly after that you went to Kingdom Prep, correct?

Correct.

So And you built that program from the ground

up from the

ground up.

So let's get into that.

How did that all come about?

Yeah, so who all right, so the Kingdom Prep

You know, I'm a believer bro.

So it was all God, right?

So I'll start with how I ended up in Arizona So out of high school, I was originally supposed to go to a junior college in Mississippi and play basketball, right?

So my dad drove me down down there 13 hours and long story short the school had my financial aid package miss mixed up dorm situation housing situation wasn't the best

Um, and it just the whole situation just blew up.

So basically we drove 13 hours down there for nothing.

Um, so back to square one, I decided not to go to school there.

Now school starts in about.

Two weeks, so I'm trying to I'm scrambling trying to figure out where can I go?

I got family in Phoenix, Arizona So I hit them up ask can I come out there?

It's some junior colleges around now try to go there I'll try to walk on so I end up moving out the Phoenix for about a year and a half and I have family out there as I said before so they pinpointed me to a school Mesa Community College, so I go out the Mesa Community College

I walk on their red shirt there for a year, get bigger, get stronger, get faster.

And then I decided to come back home just to be around family.

My dad had ended up getting sick.

I had a grandfather that was sick and I had an uncle who had just got out of prison who had prostate cancer.

Right.

So and my mom is kind of like the caretaker person in our family.

So she took my grandfather and she took my uncle in and she needed a little more help.

So.

I came back home, attended MATC and I played there for a year under a guy by the name of Randy Casey, kind of who I model my coaching style after he's a tenacious, crazy, maniacal, results driven coach.

And he does not allow you to be average.

And I learned so much just and I'm going to be honest, like.

The way he coached, it wasn't for me.

You know what I mean?

It kind of took my confidence away, but that's because I wasn't used to tough coaching, right?

So.

Mind you, in the midst of it, in the midst of all of this stuff happening, I'm taking care of my uncle, taking care of my grandfather.

You know, I'm just a I'm a little lost, right?

So grades are slipping.

I'm not doing what I need to do in the classroom and long story short.

I get kicked off the team.

So I get kicked off the team that semester of my second year of college.

And from there, I start trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life, right?

So I was always good with kids, grew up in the Boys and Girls Club, helped out my senior year working with six to eight year olds and.

I'm like, OK, maybe I'll go into teaching or something like that.

Right.

So.

This is how all of this came about a guy that I met while I was out in Arizona.

He was from Racine.

He ends up moving back to Milwaukee.

And I just happened to connect with him on Facebook one day.

hearing that he was back wanting to see what was up and all of that good stuff.

And he told me he was with the program called the Center for Urban Teaching.

OK, and the Center for Urban Teaching basically is a nonprofit.

They run a six week summer school program every summer and they try to help grow young teachers or people that are interested in seeing if this is the field for them.

So basically, I connect with him.

I get involved with the Center for Urban Teaching and through the Center for I do the Center for Urban Teaching for I did.

five internships for five straight summers.

And through this internship, it's where I met the founding principal for Kingdom Prep.

So basically the way I got to Kingdom Prep is because of a situation that went wrong in Mississippi.

I got redirected to Arizona, redirected to Milwaukee, reconnect with the guy from Racine in Milwaukee.

And I get through the center for urban teaching.

And that's where I met the founding principal, Kevin Fashion, who brought me in.

It's the recruitment director at Kingdom Prep.

And also it's the head founding basketball coach, where I did that from 2018 to 2022.

Wow.

Small world.

You mentioned your inspiration, the MATC coach.

I forget his name, but

Randy Casey,

Randy Casey.

There's a lot of talk about coaches that are somewhat aggressive for, you know,

Kind of pushing players too much and kind of the it's kind of a sign in the times that we live in that that was more acceptable in the 80s in the 90s What do you make of guys kind of like the Dan Hurley types that you know are aggressive and in Hold no prisoners, you

know.

Yeah, I think there's not one cookie cutter solution to coaching I think I Think when you find what's best for you.

I think you

Should do it to the the fullest or the highest capacity that you can right Dan Hurley comes from a coaching background his dad was an amazing coach with all of those great teams at st.

Anthony in Jersey and Like that's the background he comes from so I say if you're gonna be aggressive do it to the highest capability that you can and he's currently doing that now for me I was kind of the same way but

I've kind of like pulled back a little more.

And I say that because for me, I just, I didn't have an identity.

Now, if that's you, okay, be you.

But for a lot of young coaches, and I still consider myself a young coach, I'm only 35.

I think a lot of us, we look at the Dan Hurleys, we look at the Bobby Knights, we look at coaches that coached us in the 90s and the 2000s, and we try to emulate what they were doing.

all the while never having an identity or finding a niche for ourselves.

So for me, I kind of took my teacher approach, right?

If a kid doesn't, I taught English.

If a kid doesn't know how to write a five sentence paragraph, it's not my job to yell at them to figure it out.

It's my job to teach them how to do that.

So now how I see it, I want to be more of a teacher.

And when I yell or I scream or I get aggressive,

I want that aggressiveness to mean something to them.

I want them to be like, oh, like, OK, coach is yelling.

We must have did something wrong or we must not be doing the best that we can to maximize our potential.

Right.

So yeah.

So I just say like everybody has their own niche for me.

It's more teacher.

sit back, give them a framework that they can build on and trust the framework and trust the schemes that I've put into play that these young guys can find solutions to take ownership of anything and everything that we're doing on the

court.

After Kingdom Prep, you've made a few stops, but...

You went over to Mequon and coached Chapman Homestead.

Are you still at Homestead?

No, so I'm now at DME Academy, a national prep school in Delphi,

Wisconsin.

But you coached Brian and Stratton as well.

And while there, registered historic wins, 29 wins.

But most importantly, you had the highest GPA, is it in the league?

In our school's history.

Team GPA, yeah, in our

school's history.

You'd say you're a teacher by background.

So

why is it you know important for these young student athletes to not just be good athletes but also have academic

skills?

So I'll say this I'll say I don't think Higher education is for everybody but being a lifelong learner is And I say that because

Some guys just don't like the classroom setting Some teachers don't they don't make the teaching relatable enough But but some guys also just don't have that grit to to fight through that mental Toughness that's required within the classroom, but I think I think They go hand in hand because like I just said

Once you solve a once you figure out that you can solve a problem on your own it gives you It gives you a little more confidence To be resilient And I think at Brian is striking that's important because again, it's a junior college and Junior college shouldn't be your last pit stop if you want to play at a high level, right?

So we're trying to encourage our guys to get good grades because on paper

due to the transfer portal and coaches seeking out these older players and so on and so forth.

You really have to, you have to stand out as a junior college transfer in the first thing these coaches that I found that four year institutions are asking, well, what's his GPA?

Because let's say we can't offer him a full ride.

We potentially can find academic money for him or grant money through his academics that can help supplement

what they what they be able to give them through a full ride scholarship.

So that was a big point.

But also, I think.

Just pushing our guys to be great in every area of their life.

Sometimes we're competitive as basketball players, but we're not competitive as people, right?

So for me, I don't say player development, right?

I say people development.

So I want to develop young men and young women holistically.

And I think a part of that is.

How can I say this?

Jamal Crawford had a quote.

He said, if all I'm remembered for is being a good basketball player, then I fail with the rest of my life.

Right?

So for me, I want our young people to be competitive basketball players, but I also want them to be competitive in their work field.

I want them to be

Competitive is future husbands, right?

To be the best that they can be.

Competitive sons, competitive grandsons and so on and so forth.

So I think I want them to take that competitive nature that they have on a court and I want them to find ways to use that same competitive nature and apply it holistically to every area of their lives.

Yeah.

So you found some of the top players.

You've coached a lot of top players, right?

Some players that went on to play college basketball, maybe even NBA.

Yeah, five first

round draft picks.

OK, yeah.

But then the majority of your players are obviously just going to go on to have a career and something outside of basketball more than likely or the coach or something.

Can you kind of talk about, A, your top players that you've ever had?

Yeah.

But

then B, the players that went on just to start a business or do something a little bit more mundane than basketball?

Yeah, so.

I'll talk about guys.

I like to say collaborate.

For the record, all of these guys were like good before I started working with them.

I think I just had a small part in their history as basketball players, right?

So I've had the opportunity to work and collaborate with Jalen Johnson from Atlanta Hawks.

Brandon Pozinski, who plays for the Golden State Warriors.

Anthony Black, who plays for the Orlando Magic.

His dad is Terry Black, who's from Milwaukee.

So I worked with Anthony Black when he was like 15 or 16 years old.

A.J.

Johnson, who was with the Milwaukee Bucks, he was the first round draft pick not too long ago, currently with the Washington Wizards.

I've worked with Kiefer Sykes, who was in the NBA for a while with the Indiana Pacers.

And he's somebody who I really looked to as far as

being more than an athlete.

But I'll talk about our very own, like the first pro client that I've ever had, Mike Taylor, who's from Milwaukee, who was the first player ever drafted from the D League at the time, the G League to the NBA.

Right.

So I think Mike has done a really good job of.

Not allowing basketball to define who he is and really talk like entrepreneurship and all of that good stuff.

Mike is somebody who has started his own.

a nonprofit right where he works with kids after school, through arts, through sports, and so on and so forth.

Mike also is a guy through his foundation.

I helped him do like basketball pop-ups.

So during COVID, when gyms weren't open, Mike had the idea to, hey, let's do some pop-ups at various parks and let's just work kids out and train kids for free, right?

So he does stuff like that.

He also...

Being in a big three, he started his own big three youth basketball league at McGovern Park.

So just seeing somebody like that being a client of mine, somebody that trusts me with his career and his livelihood, seeing him implement all of those things outside of being an athlete.

Man, it's been phenomenal.

But I also got a guy by the name of Aaron on Nemesis who played for me at Bryan and Stratton.

Brian and Stratton two years ago.

He was actually working businesses while being a player, right?

So he would do day trading.

He also had like a cleaning company that was really profitable.

And now he's doing like door to door sales.

with like an insurance company, his own business, and he's doing really well for himself, man.

So for me, I think it's when you have a really high level basketball player.

These guys put all of their eggs in one basket.

So like basketball is literally the only thing that they do.

And once they retire or once their careers cut short, they really don't have any other avenues, right?

So I think it's important.

that we get their mind, like even if they don't partake in anything early on in their career, I think the earlier, the better.

So if we're talking to talking to these guys 14, 15, 16 years old about that type of stuff, the seeds will be planted in.

Hopefully they take heed and they start diversifying their portfolios and look beyond just being a on court basketball player because I mean, that career typically only lasts four to five years for some guys.

Yeah, it's getting to you a little bit.

Gotcha.

You work for Caban

Lune's team

right now.

Yeah.

So, um, so I started with Chapman basketball academy for about three years.

Then last year I had a really great year with a team hero, a 16 U team.

We went 21, made it to a final four at Nike Peach Jam, had the number one offense in the country.

the number one offense in the country for the last five years.

The only team that had a better offense was the Boozer twins, whenever playing for Florida Night Riders on the EYBL circuit in 2022 for their 16-U team.

So had great success there, but I've since moved on to keep on Looney's Power 5 with the 17-U team over here.

And you know, I just kind of want to...

give back to the city a little bit more.

You know, I'm here, a really great organization, amazing young man.

But now I have an opportunity to help a lot of inner city young guys and Power Five is more of a Milwaukee based AAU organization on a Dita circuit.

And I think I'm at a point where I just want to help Milwaukee.

be catapulted on a global scale through this organization.

You know, that's where my conviction and my heart lies at the moment.

Yeah.

Both

Looney and Hero, Hero, Hero's become a pretty good player.

He averages 20 last five seasons, I believe.

What has it been like to work with?

Hero and Looney in their foundation specifically and things they're doing in the city.

Yes, I think it's it's been phenomenal and I think it also goes back to what when we were talking about

players and not just letting basketball define them.

I think I've had the opportunity to have a hands-on approach, seeing exactly what that looks like in real time, especially for a guy like Tyler Hero, who's worth close to $200 million, right?

Being around high level, multi-million organization like that was life-changing, right?

Seeing all of the golf outings that he has, all of the camps that he puts together for kids.

And all of the stuff that his family does to try to better the community not just in Milwaukee, but in Wisconsin as well I think it's been really transformative transformative seeing that And just having the opportunity to serve in capacities for guys like hero and guys like Loni It's just been it's been phenomenal, especially like with Loni being an NPS grad Just seeing the hope

that he gives young people, especially like during his camps.

It's really been a joy in having a hand in that and knowing that the work, the work is changing lives in our community.

Are you originally from Milwaukee?

Yes, I'm a Milwaukee.

Northside?

Northside.

Yes, sir.

23rd and Brown in 49th and Garfield.

OK.

Yes, sir.

What has it been like transitioning to Looney and dealing with?

Predominantly black kids.

I'm guessing That live on the north side as opposed to hero who's from Greenfield.

Yeah, so here's what's interesting.

So a lot of our younger teams are Milwaukee based right now with the group that I coach we're on the Adidas circuit and

on these circuits, you kind of got to go out and get nationally ranked kids.

So this year has been in a kind of mimics.

Everything mimics mimics the highest level, right?

So the highest level of college basketball is to transfer a quarter when teams you're not really retaining guys like that.

And you got to go out and get the top guys because.

You have to win in order to keep these sponsorships and these deals available.

So the coach that I currently got, we have a mix of players, right?

So we got four players from Michigan.

We got a player from Minnesota.

We got a kid from Cameroon who plays for me at DME Academy.

We got a kid from the Green Bay area.

And then we got a Milwaukee kid and we got a Madison kid, right?

So our group is.

Very diverse as far as statewide, but it's really like once you get in a thick of it You start to notice like it's kind of the same type of dynamics, right?

So my mission in kids are from Detroit, right?

My Minnesota guy, he's from Minneapolis and you start to realize Milwaukee Detroit Minneapolis

We're like these inner city kids are they all have the same struggle.

They all have the same background and they're all trying to figure it out.

So although it's not like Milwaukee kids, per se, we're still dealing with the same situations.

And that's how can we get these young guys scholarships when college coaches are prioritizing these older guys in the transfer portal?

Interesting.

And you've managed a few camps.

Have you done some in Milwaukee?

Yes.

You've done some for Hero?

Have you donated for Looney?

Not yet.

Looney will be in June.

This will be my first year working with him.

Are they doing it at Washington?

They're doing it at Milwaukee Lutheran High School.

And then also for the Bucks and Marquette.

So what kind of goes into building a camp?

I think...

Having the right people to delegate and the right people around you to keep everything organized And to keep things competitive.

I think sometimes with camps a lot of parents Unfortunately see camps is like daycare, right?

So you're telling me for a whole week

I can send my kid to you from 8 a.m.

to 4 p.m.

And you'll take care of them and so on and so forth.

So it's really like the language that you use making sure that hey, this isn't daycare.

We're really trying to get kids better.

I think having the right coaches around that want to help kids get better.

But I would say camps first and foremost are it's an experience based type of thing, right?

So.

Imagine walking in the mall or walking in the store, walking in like a target or something.

What's the what's the feeling that you want people to take away with when they first walk in?

Right.

So doing.

So the Marquette camp, I didn't run that camp, but I did get to learn a lot from Shaka Smart.

Right.

So when kids first walk into a Marquette basketball camp, there's a red carpet laid out.

And they have about 10 to 12 coaches outside, clapping really loud and cheering kids on as they walk into the camp.

Right.

And a kid sees that at seven thirty, seven forty five a.m.

in the morning, they light up because you're for one, you're affirming them to you're letting them know that expectations won't drop, although it's seven forty five in the morning.

Right.

And finally, this camp is going to be one of the most high energized whale ran camps that you'll ever attend in your life.

Right.

So I think that's one thing that I can take away.

Probably my biggest takeaway.

Camps should be organized.

They should be high energy and you should have the right people in those camps that are in this for the right reason.

You're pretty.

Active on Twitter with watching NBA and yeah, what did you make of?

the Heat Hornets game the matchup between hero who went to Winnell High

and

and kind right kind knuckle who went to Wisconsin.

Yeah,

Wisconsin Luther.

So Those are two that those are two really good coaches for one You got Eric Sposter and you got Charles Lee who was here in Milwaukee for a while

with Coach Budd.

But it's like the play in is a I know a lot of people don't like it, but for me, it's a heavy weight bout.

It's like it kind of has a March madness feel to it.

And I think people will slowly start to catch on.

We're just not familiar with it because it's it's a Euro League and a Euro Cup concept from Europe.

But they love it out there.

And I think this year is going to put the stamp on it because I mean.

All four games have been phenomenal, right?

But I think the the coach in the schemes, the the sense of urgency that everybody plays with the the defense that everybody's looking for within those 82 games.

I think we get to see that on display.

The referees are a little looser with their whistle and not calling everything.

I think the playoffs really the play and really get gives you a preview of.

the NBA finals in a sense, right?

I think the last two minutes, we saw some of the most amazing after-time outplays that you could see, not only from the Hornets, but from the Heat as well.

Coaches are really locked in.

And I think when you are playing a one-game scenario, people don't see the behind-the-scenes work that all of these coaches are preparing for, for this one opportunity, right?

So we see a game when in play,

But it probably took a coach.

A hundred, two hundred, three hundred clips on synergy, right?

A software that NBA coaches use a second spectrum.

They were probably on these sites for hours on hours, trying to craft out the perfect play to get the mellow ball downhill, right?

To get that game winning layup that he did, right?

But also.

working on your transition defense, which was really important because Miles Bridges got the game save and block, right?

So I think people see like they see those plays, but they don't necessarily see all the preparation that it took to survive in advance per se hero

was he really couldn't hit his shot in the fourth quarter, but then he came in clutch at the end and made it again.

But then obviously the Hornets answered.

Uh, your company skills over politics.

Yes, sir.

What is that about?

Yeah.

So, um, when I first started the job at kingdom prep Lutheran high school, that was 2018.

Um, and I was the head varsity coach.

I was trying to find a way to draw traffic into the school, right?

It's a brand new school choice school.

So, uh, basically, but

Butts have to be put in seats in order for all of the staff to eat.

Now, mind you, I'm 27, 28 years old at the time.

So I'm relatively young, right?

With this really big task at hand.

So I believe athletics drives.

Every school's like population it'll drive it up and make it better right if you got your athletics You can get some really good kids to come there.

So Started the program.

We didn't have a varsity program at the time.

So 2018 I just had a freshman team 2019 I had a freshman in the JV then 2020 I had a varsity team So I had a three-year plan to try to figure out how can I build this program but also how can I

help give Kingdom Prep a big name in the city.

So I started Skills Over Politics, SOP, basketball LLC.

And I just said, hey, for the whole summer of 2018, I'm going to train whoever wants to come in this building for free.

Right.

So I did that from 2000.

And I did that from April of 2018 to August in 2018.

And I trained over 150 clients, right?

35 of those guys were playing Division One basketball.

10 of those guys were playing professionally, right?

So I just wanted to create a product that could have some buzz and have some life around it, right?

So I carried that over into 2019.

And then thankfully, 2020 COVID hit.

Gems were shut down all across America, right?

But guess who had a gym open this guy here, right?

We didn't close school down because we wanted guys to if the world is shut down, but we don't want you just sitting at home, right?

So our goal was to get guys in the building or you could chime in through Zoom.

So we had Zoom school.

We had in person and so on and so forth.

But a lot of guys didn't have gyms.

So

I had the opportunity now to take advantage of that.

Right.

So even colleges couldn't use their gym.

So like the guys at Wisconsin, the guys at Marquette, they were hitting me up.

Hey, Chuck, can we get in the gym with you and so on and so forth?

Next thing you know, I'm running open gym sessions and practice sessions for Marquette University at the time.

I'm working out all of UW Milwaukee's players.

UW Green Bay guys are coming down.

Got all of this traction a youtuber by the name of trish and jazz came by and he Recorded one of the the open gym sessions that I have that I had and next thing you know He uploads it and it does a million hits in a day right changes my life forever And that's how the whole situation with Jalen Johnson came about so Jalen Johnson saw the video

Um, and he hit somebody up close to me and say, Hey, can we come down and work out and get in the gym and so on and so forth?

So I had the opportunity to work with Jalen, uh, all the way up until he left for Duke, right?

Um, and working with these guys, my network just grew.

Um, and I helped, you know, start directing.

I went from just training guys to now helping navigate them with their agency deals and, uh,

What schools they want to go to like guys are trusting me with their livelihoods and their decision making, right?

So the whole SOP thing came about, though.

Because of, like, you know, just the underdog mentality we have here in Milwaukee.

I think we got some of the best basketball players in the world.

The world just hasn't seen it yet or caught up yet because the exposure hasn't been there, right?

So for me, it's just.

Sometimes the the political.

The political agendas that people have that gets in the way sometimes of how skilled people are and due to the political agendas, you don't really get to see how masterful a lot of people are at their crafts and that's across the board, not just sports.

So I wanted to create a lifestyle slogan or brand that could translate holistically to any and everything.

And my whole saying is.

uh you know become so skilled that the politics you know don't matter

um you kind of just touched on this but navigating uh where does where does where decide where to play next how do you um

What do you tell your players about navigating the NIL space?

Obviously, it's pretty new in recent years.

Even when you played it didn't exist So how does that change things for you?

Yeah, so I mean, it's a it's a cash cow out here now, right?

You're telling a kid that he can get four to five million for a year just playing Collegiate basketball, right?

Some guys are making more money than rookies are making on the rookie deal in the NBA, right?

so

For me, it's all about fit and opportunity, right?

The money will always be there.

But like the goal should always remain the goal.

Like if your goal is to play professional basketball, OK, well, let's find a school and let's find a fit that'll get you there, right?

If your goal is to just, you know, make a lot of money, right?

Now you can do that.

depending on how good you are, you can leave college making a couple of million dollars, right?

When NIL first started back in like 20, 21, 22, you know, I helped a guy by the name of Jose Perez.

I helped him navigate and he ended up at West Virginia making a lot of money.

But yeah, I'll say like for me, it's about fit and opportunity and think long term, depending on.

what you want your finished product to be.

In general,

do you support the changes or do you think it's kind of hurt the game in a way?

I supported 100 percent.

I think looking back at all of the people who didn't get to benefit off their name, image and likeness, I think it's important that guys now are able to do that, especially with the rise of social media.

And schools being able to use different outlets to brand players I think it's important that people are able to make money off their names now I do think there eventually should be a cap put on it or a Union started right like something has to take place that Puts a cap on how much a guy can make because recent study came out like the money just keeps

I know when NIL first started guys were only making like I know I talked to a friend of mine awake forest the first year they did NIL a guy the most he made was $75,000 right now guys are making upwards to 1.5 or 2.5 million and this is just and it's spiked like that in a span of two years

Right.

So what's going to happen in the next two years?

Is it going to keep going up to seven or eight million?

Like at what point are these donors going to scale back a little bit and say, all right, we got to come up with a strategic plan.

I know we want to win, but like we're giving out a lot of money and at some point it got to be kept because.

Yeah.

If a kid is making four million dollars, head coach is only making a million.

It's kind of hard to coach guys that are making more money than you, you know.

So I just think a cap needs to put on it, but I'm all for guys making money off their name, image and likeness for sure.

Yeah, it's interesting.

I think I don't see a cap coming anytime soon, just the climate.

But recruiting classes, these upcoming Wisconsin recruiting classes are pretty good, right?

Yes.

Yes.

Um, 2027, this class with.

Doonie Johnson, Donovan Davis, Deuce McDuffie, Jack Conan, Kaja Kinnipple, all of those guys.

I would say this class, Zeke Jones, Treff Roddermaker, Jalen Brown, man, I can go on and on.

It's about, I would say, for sure, 15 to 20 of those guys that can play Division One basketball, right?

I think that class is generational.

2028 classes is good.

a few hidden misses there, no disrespect to any of those kids.

2029 is good, but this class of 2030s incoming freshmen that are coming in, this group of kids is really, really good.

They're really good.

I think they'll be on that cusp of what this 2027 group did, or even like that 2007 group all the way back with Deontay Garrett, who played in the NBA, Dwight Bikes.

Who played in the NBA like that class?

I think this 2030 class can mimic that 2007 class for sure

What do you think happened or?

Changed that made it so that these players in 2030 are gonna be so good.

It like is it there are you upcoming or

no, so I just think it's it's Like with generational stuff.

It's just something in a water, right?

Like with so I'll take this 2027 class, right?

Just team hero alone.

All right.

So Donnie Johnson's is the point guard.

He's six six.

Right.

Jack Conan is the two guard.

Right.

He's six six six seven.

Deuce McDuffie six seven.

Right.

Donovan Davis six eight.

Cajun Kanipple six ten.

Like that batch of kids just had like some generational size in their group.

Right.

So I just think it's something in the water like.

The athleticism is different with that group.

The energy is different with that group, or even my Power 5 group, right?

My point guard, 6-4.

My shooting guard is 6-9.

My small 4 to 6-3.

My power 4 to 6-10.

My center 7-1, right?

So it's just something about this 2027 group.

It's just a generational group in this.

You know, Wisconsin people are big.

Yeah, right.

So in these classes come around once, maybe every 10 years or so.

So yeah, man, I can't pinpoint exactly what it is.

I think the AAU and the skills training and constantly playing and stuff.

I think that does have a part in it.

But I also just think, man, generationally, they just got some guy giving gifts that a lot of other kids don't have.

Coach Smith final question.

What's next for basketball in Wisconsin?

Oh man Well, I'll tell you where my heart is I think it's we got to grow coaches There aren't that many young hungry coaches eager to coach at a high level

Right.

And what I mean, a high level, I mean, being like, hey, varsity coaches or coaching in college or even coaching in the NBA, which is where I want to be one day, you know, head coach, eventually.

I just don't think a lot of guys want to do that at a high level.

Some say they want to do it, but I don't think they understand the professionalism.

But I also don't think they understand the work that it takes to coach at a high level.

Right.

Even high school 24 games your preparation is super important your scouting is super important how you recruit and go get kids is important like all of that stuff is important so for me it for me it's I think we need to grow coaches and we need to get better with our schemes and Predict and trends and you know what?

How are the next generation of kids going to benefit from certain offensive schemes and defensive schemes and so on and so forth?

So I think that's one thing I also think it's educating parents more on this whole NIL landscape and Helping them under because I think

You know, the agents are going to start coming even younger now, right?

Maybe six or seven grade.

You might see kids signing with agents.

So just educating and empowering parents on that forefront.

But yeah, again, for me, my conviction is to help grow coaches holistically.

How do we do that?

How

do we

find more coaches?

That's a really great question.

Former players.

I was maybe.

think that's a start but I think you got a lot of you got a lot of people that understand the game but I think it's a it's a hard thing where you got to want to give that game to the next generation right so I don't necessarily have the answers right I'm just one person that's willing to try to find solutions to make that happen you know what I mean

Yeah, I'm I don't know how we go about doing it.

I just know that it has to happen And I want to find ways to make it happen

Well, one thing for sure is we need more Chuck Smiths Thank you for coming to the WNOV today and the Milwaukee Courier and Yeah, it's nice to have you in the studio

now.

Thanks for having me man.

I greatly appreciate it.

Appreciate it Chuck