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This is the Civic Media Spotlight.
Hello and welcome to the first hour of the Civic Media Spotlight.
In the first hour, we have Daybreak with Brian and Jamie.
Speaking at the Wisconsin GOP Convention, Senator Ron Johnson had some advice for Republicans when Brian and Jamie heard about it.
they thought that the Democrats could also use that same advice.
Now back some more of Daybreak with Brian and Jamie.
Thank you so much for joining us this morning.
We always appreciate it.
Hopefully you are having a great Friday.
My name is Jamie Martinson.
And good morning.
I'm Brian Noonan.
According to a recent report from the Public Religion Research Institute, one third of Americans believe that the United States should be a Christian nation.
Women are just as likely to hold that belief in Christian nationalism as men.
Joining us to talk about that phenomenon and what it means for the future of our country is Andrew Whitehead.
Andrew is a professor of sociology and executive director of the Association of Religion Data Archives at the Center for the Study of Religion and American Culture at Indiana University, Indianapolis.
Andrew, a long title.
Thank you for being here.
We appreciate your time today.
For purposes of clarity, define for us Christian nationalism and when did it start to grab hold in this country?
Yeah, that's a great question and it's good to be with you both this morning.
So Christian nationalism, the definition that we use that is empirically supported using data, is a desire to see a very particular expression of Christianity fused with American civic life and wanting the government at all levels to defend and preserve that close fusion of, again, this very particular type of Christianity as central to understanding who we are and what we're all about as a nation.
And as we look back over the course of the history of this nation and even before, this particular expression of Christianity has been influential and bound up in how the founding fathers, those in the 18th and 19th century saw themselves as Americans, and then especially through the 20th century.
And what we see today really is kind of an outgrowth of the rise of the moral majority, which was happening in the 1970s.
And so it's been with us for a very long time.
Now, you describe this as an ideology that's tied to power and identity.
And is this a practice of Christianity?
Is this loving, just a pure love of your country?
And how is this playing out right now in what we're seeing every day?
Yeah, that's a really good question.
So first of all, with Christian nationalism, when we're talking about that Christianity of Christian nationalism,
Again, it's a very particular expression of Christianity.
So the folks that embrace it, they do adhere to those kind of orthodox historic beliefs that we kind of associate with that religion.
But it also brings with it what I like to call extra cultural baggage.
So when they hear Christian, they're not only thinking about, let's say, the divinity of Jesus, but that this country is made by and for a very particular type of people like white Protestant Christian men who founded this country.
And that narrative is key.
but also they want this country to look a particular way.
And so a lot of the work that we do in social science is kind of highlighting that extra cultural baggage that comes with it.
So it is a slice of Christianity, but there are a lot of different expressions of Christianity in this country.
And this is only really one type that wants to see itself at the center.
And so that is key to kind of understanding what we're talking about with Christian nationalism.
We're talking to Andrew Whitehead.
He's a professor of sociology and director of the Association of Religion Data Archives at Indiana University, Indianapolis.
So based on this report that I referenced earlier, Andrew says a majority of Republicans, 56% in fact, were either Christian nationalism adherents or sympathizers.
What have you found to be the correlation between the Republican Party and Christian nationalism?
Yeah, so this is a very key point, a great question.
So when we look at what's called the rise of the moral majority in the 1970s, these are people like Jerry Falwell, who some might have heard of.
They were really influential in tying together what they saw as a lot of evangelical Protestants, very conservative kind of white religious people who weren't really involved in politics.
They wanted to bring them in to the fold of the Republican Party.
And so they really worked to say that, hey, if you're
Christian like us, the Republican Party is where you should be.
And so that tightened especially in 1980 with the election of Ronald Reagan as they were supporting him instead of Jimmy Carter, who actually was an evangelical and was known as the first evangelical president.
And so that's where you really see this tight
tied together.
And since then, we've seen that continue to grow to where if we look at data over time, you'll see a greater and greater percentage.
of evangelical Protestants, conservative Christians, making up a larger majority of the Republican Party.
And so Christian nationalism is a key part of that.
Because again, it's this desire to fuse together their brand of Christianity with American civic life and to say that this country is ours.
It's always been ours and should maintain itself as ours.
And so they have a particular view of where we should go as a nation.
Now, in some of your writings, because I went through your sub-stack, and because this is a topic that has always been very interesting to me, because it sometimes seems like Christian nationalists are also voting against their own best interests.
And
so this
is always fascinating to me, but you've pointed out that race has played a major role in shaping the modern Christian right.
And why is that history so important for people to understand, especially when we look at this administration's
uh... war against immigration
yeah so race uh... since christianity first came to the shores before the founding of the u s race and and and racism has been intimately intertwined with that meaning that those people that were bringing christianity here had to make sense of why this land should be theirs
and what that meant for the indigenous populations that were already here.
And also as they brought slaves from Africa, why they should continue to enslave those people on this land.
And so when we look at that history, we see that was really when it
Christianity equaling white and a citizen got tied up with race.
And so that kind of gave them, they felt as though this was God's plan for this nation.
And so that's been with us forever.
It's not saying that folks now necessarily believe that.
But the repercussions of that belief and with race are key.
And so as slavery was in this land, and we see the separation of who can be Christian or not based on that.
And then slavery ends, Jim Crow begins.
Race has always been a part of religion in the US.
And so with Christian nationalism, this ideology, race is a very key part of that.
And so one thing that I like to point out with this is as we survey the American public,
When we ask questions to help us know, do they embrace Christian nationalism or not?
None of those questions mention race at all, just as if they think this country should be Christian.
But what we find over and over is that when they imagine that Christian and we ask them questions about race, we see that Christian nationalism is one of these strong predictors.
of believing that this country is for and should be for white Americans.
And so again, when they imagine Christian, race is tied up in that as a key part of that.
So as we try to understand this current administration and Project 2025, this is kind of a keyhole through which we can understand why race and as they call it DEI is something that we should be afraid of rather than trying to embrace a pluralistic democratic society where people
of all races, and immigrants too should have the opportunity to become true citizens and to participate in democracy.
Andrew, earlier you mentioned that the old idea of Christian was the white Protestant male.
So now we're seeing that as many women as men are embracing Christian nationalism, which seems to go contrary to, as Jamie pointed out, their own self-interest.
So a lot of these tenants
are completely anti-female there, whether it's the head of Christian nationalism saying the 19th amendment was one of the worst mistakes we've ever made or taking away reproductive rights.
What then is the draw of Christian nationalism for women who really are going to be subjugated under that belief system?
Yeah, I think there's a couple of ways that we can try to understand this and make sense of it.
One is that with Christian nationalism, that cultural baggage that I mentioned earlier that gets brought along with it, they legitimate the goodness and reality of that cultural baggage, like the fact that men should be the leaders, women should submit and follow.
They legitimate it in the will of the Christian God.
And so if God has commanded this, then who are we to say any different?
And if God has said, for your nation to flourish, it needs to be ordered in this way where men lead and women submit and follow.
And so that is a lot to ask of people to say, well, you know, even though if God commanded it, you should do something different.
And so in that sense, it is a very strong pull.
But then too, what we see as well is that for women who embrace Christian nationalism, they see the way that they protect their status and
what they are in the movement as being connected to a man.
And if the man is doing what he should do, then they'll be taken care of and that their families in this order will be blessed by God and that they'll be able to do what they need to in this country and have access to the civil benefits and civil rights.
And so they're not really worried about
those things that you mentioned right access to reproductive rights or voting because again they're connected to in this family unit to men who will make sure that all of all of their desires and needs will be taken care of and so that's that's the way that it's talked about as they view it.
So if those trends continue Andrew I mean if we're talking about voting rights if we're talking about reproductive rights representation inclusion
then what are the risks that come to democracy as we go forward?
Yeah, so this is something that I've written on quite a bit and I really, it's a really good question.
It's something we really need to be aware of is that Christian nationalism at its root we find over and over is anti-democratic in the sense that they have a particular vision for what this country should be.
And to the extent that democracy allows them to achieve that vision, it's fine.
But if it begins to impede them in achieving that vision, they're willing to do away with it again because they feel as though this country in order to survive has to be blessed by God and God has commanded that this country should look again the way that they believe it should look.
And so they'll set it aside.
And so we see with Americans who embrace Christian nationalism, who are even just sympathetic with it, as Brian mentioned at the top here, about a third of Americans, we see they're much more likely to embrace authoritarian leadership, that we want somebody to come in and take control and enforce order.
They're much more likely, it's small numbers, but they're more likely than other Americans to embrace political violence.
And so, yeah, when we look at all of these kind of aspects of what it means to live in a democracy where everybody has access to voting, to civil rights, and that we compromise, Christian nationalism over and over really pushes Americans in a direction where they're not willing to compromise, and they really don't want to work with others.
They want to achieve that particular vision.
Andrew Whitehead is our guest.
He's a professor of sociology at Indiana University, Indianapolis.
We've just got a little bit over a minute, Andrew.
What you just described seems to be what's happening now.
There is a small number of people embracing a potentially authoritarian regime.
Is there a way to reverse this trend or are we on a path now that we're going to have to see just how it ends?
Yeah, I absolutely believe that there is a way forward for those that do believe in a pluralistic democratic society.
There are a lot of things pushing back against that, but working together in our communities
accessing voting, making sure others have access to vote.
And we've seen these social movements come together.
And so the more that we do that and recognize that we do have power together and trying to open that up to those that maybe are on the margins and making sure that they have access to it as well, will be the way forward for us all so that everyone, right, can have access to liberty and justice and not just a few.
Well, Andrew, thank you.
It's very enlightening, very interesting.
Andrew Whitehead has been our guest.
He's a professor of sociology and the executive director of the Association of Religion Data Archives at the Center for the Study of Religion and American Culture at Indiana University, Indianapolis.
Andrew, thanks again.
That was really interesting and a little bit alarming.
But we appreciate your time today.
Thank you.
Thank you.
All right, when we come back, there's a whole lot more.
This is Daybreak.
I'm Brian Noonan.
I'm Jamie Martinson, and you are listening to the Civic Media
Network.
Across the state of Wisconsin, they bring with Brian and Jamie is back.
752 right now.
Thank you for joining us today on the Civic Media Network.
A few clouds.
It's a little mix of sun in there every now and then too.
Looks like we're going to dry things out though over the next few days across the state with some cooler temperatures.
So if you are somebody who's been impacted by the floods, hopefully you get some reprieve.
Hopefully you can get some relief here and maybe dry the basement out or dry the business out.
I know there's been a lot of businesses over in the state that have been
impacted
by the floodwaters.
So yeah, dry weather though this week, Brian,
Very, very much appreciated in this theme.
That is
very good.
Parker, I gotta ask,
you're
thinking on that.
Now, I know the band is Three Dog Night, but do you think the song is Jeremiah was a bulldog?
Why did you go with that song for this particular story?
I am told
this is Joy to the
World.
It is Joy to the World.
Yes.
It is Joy to the World.
Okay,
yeah.
Seems joyful.
I don't know.
I don't know the song.
It would be a little bit more Parker's time.
I understand.
I
just there were two there were two ways it could have gone a dog Be joy.
Yeah, there you go.
Well, it's the band and then joy.
Okay good
enough
Yeah, oh
no it is it is I just it caught me off-guard and made me laugh Trying to figure out Parker's mindset.
I wasn't
gonna use who let the dogs out again
No, thank goodness.
No.
Because they can't get out there.
No, they can't.
This is a great story, though.
It is a very good story.
It was in the Wisconsin Examiner and they wrote this feature on the PAWS program in Wisconsin prisons.
Now, the PAWS program refers to prisoners assisting with service dogs program.
So basically prisoners are training service dogs and it is
being used not only for the training of these very crucial dogs, but to help rehabilitate some prisoners, which is supposedly what we're supposed to be putting people in prison for, right?
To rehabilitate people, not just punishment or warehousing, but we're supposed to be prepping
them.
That's the hope anyway.
That's the hope.
Terrific.
so can do canines matches service dogs with clients to help with mobility issues and all that everything you'd need a service dog from uh the organization partners with five minnesota prisons and four wisconsin prisons to train these dogs from the
Person who is the executive director Jeff Johnson.
He said I all I frequently hear from inmates that this is I don't know if redemption is the right word But this is a way to give back that they haven't really had before in their lives They also get the unconditional love of a dog and some of them haven't had unconditional love from anything or anyone before this So it really
that's
amazing.
It's a great.
I think this is the kind of program
that you go, well, for all the problems, and there are a myriad of problems in the prison system here in Wisconsin, and we've talked about a lot of them, and I'm sure we'll continue to have to talk about them.
But this is the kind of thing that you go, all right, I can see this, maybe, maybe dealing with a dog for a few months, training it to help other people, maybe that breaks through some of these guys' tough exteriors and makes them rethink their choices.
Maybe I'm being you for a minute Jamie and being two rose colored glasses on this.
I don't know dogs have this unique ability and I know not everybody's a dog lover but even if you are a cat lover right there's a reason why you're attracted to that animal.
They have this way of breaking through that sometimes humans can't.
and sometimes it's just because I think they don't talk back.
But they listen, dogs are great listeners on some of my worst days, aspen knows all sorts of things that nobody else
is gonna
know, right?
Because they have that ability and animals in general, especially dogs, cause I'm a dog lover, they have this ability to know
when it's a really bad or hard day, right?
Like if I'm having a really tough day, Aspen is glued to me.
She is absolutely glued to me.
She will not leave my site and she does everything she can to get my attention and refocus me.
And that is what dogs do.
And that's why I love programs like this because, you know, there are literally people who...
who have talked about this program that haven't had any sort of contact other than the prisoners or haven't seen a dog in over 20 years of their life.
And now they are housed in a separate facility of the prison for the dog program.
Each dog has two handlers.
They live together in the cell with this dog and there's a purpose to getting up every day.
because this dog needs you.
This dog is depending on you,
right?
And they teach them everything.
They're sitting, staying, retrieving, cleaning up, putting them in, cleaning things up and putting them away.
So they are really involved in this because in the story, if you read it on the Wisconsin Examiner, they talked to a woman who was a recipient of one of these dogs.
These dogs, this is not just a time filler for these inmates.
They're doing real work.
for real people and these dogs are, you've seen people with service dogs.
They're amazing.
And
then I go home, my dogs are lazy.
They're just, you know, they lay downstairs and howl because they want me to come feed them.
They're not, the only service they do is for them.
I have to tell you, Aspen will never be a service dog, not in any way, shape or form.
However, since we adopted her almost three and a half years ago now, she has been in puppy training because one of the things that we are working with Aspen- For three and a half years?
She's been in puppy training for three and a half years because one of the things that we are working on with her, and when I say puppy training, she's gone through, she's advanced through her courses.
Oh, okay, I was gonna say- No, no, she's-
No, she's very, she's very well, she can be very well trained.
depends and if there's food involved.
But at the same time, one of the goals that we're working towards over the next couple of years is getting her to be a, I don't even want to say therapy dog, a companion dog.
I want her to be able to go into schools because she loves kids.
She absolutely loves kids and kids absolutely love her.
And I would love for her to be able to go into schools, to libraries, to be that dog that sits with them where they read out loud.
Because she's just that type of dog and she's just got that
disposition with them and she is so loving and she is so sweet.
She's still a little wiggly because she's only about three yet.
So we still got some work to do probably in the next couple of years that's our goal but I've even seen what what she does for kids right in that aspect so.
One of my friends who was first grade teacher started that last year.
She got this dog that it was trained for that.
And now the dog comes in and it'll
go to
classrooms for a little bit and just kids can calm and pet and it just, it
really does
help.
So
good for this, good for the pause program.
Up next on the Civic Media Spotlight.
We have Night Light with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.
Pete and Greg talked to Bill Bertram, board member of the Wausau and Marathon County Parks Foundation, to talk about the granite belt system that's currently being developed in North Central Wisconsin.
Welcome back.
This is Night Light with Pete Schwabba
and Greg Bach.
Coming to you live from various parts of our beautiful state of Wisconsin, and we are going to turn our attention to another very beautiful part of the state too, Central Wisconsin.
As we welcome our first guest of the night,
He is a board member with Wausau and Marathon County Parks Foundation.
I believe President will clarify that in just a moment.
He joins us tonight to discuss potentially Central Wisconsin becoming the biking capital of the world.
Maybe I'm aiming too high there, but we'll get the low down.
Bill Bertram joins us now on Nightlight over the stream.
How are you tonight, Bill?
I'm doing great, guys.
How about yourself?
Doing well doing very
well.
Thank
you.
It's great
to have
you
here.
I have to I have to correct you Pete.
It's the biking capital of the universe.
Oh, yeah, so we're
thinking big
God, I
blew it.
All right.
I can't believe, I can't believe we were thinking so small there.
My goodness.
I know
it, I know it.
I thought, you know, start with Marathon County and see where it happens after that.
But Bill's already got the universe, so that's good.
We got big ideas.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Aim high.
Tell us, Bill, why is red granite so good for cycling?
Yeah, so we're really blessed in a five county area that we have, the red gran here goes back 1.8 billion years to pre-cambion times.
And it is a faceted stone and it interlocks on itself and it compacts about 95% of the value of asphalt.
So
For bikers that ride gravel, this is kind of one of the epicenters for riding because of that red granite.
And we get people from all over the U.S.
come here just to ride our gravel.
Well, and that was going to be part of my next question.
It sounds like, you know, what you're trying to do now is letting the world know on what could be the best kept secret for cyclists.
Is that something, you know, how long you've been working on trying to get the word out there as far as like this project right now with regard to the granite belt?
Yeah.
So we, uh, we actually have a couple of local guys that write about 1200 miles every summer on, on the granite in this five county area centered around Warsaw.
and Marathon County.
And so we pitched it to the state just about a year ago and branded it around what we call Wisconsin gravel.
And they were incredibly enthusiastic about it for a couple of reasons.
One is gravel bike riding is one of the fastest segments of biking and the other is e-bikes.
And so both of them lend to our type of gravel here.
So we created almost 900 miles of gravel trails or routes using existing dairy roads, logging roads, fire roads.
rails to trails and rustic roads in that five county area.
So we tied them all together, looped them into a trail system.
So, and then created eight trail communities where you can start and stop your adventures in that five county area.
Amazing.
So I want to go back a little bit to the geology of this, if we could, because I'm not a cyclist.
You're saying gravel and then red granite.
The granite belt, as I understand it, relies on existing rural infrastructure like dairy roads, at least in the article I read, and then logging routes and gravel quarters.
Like I said, I'm not a cyclist.
I do have a slick Schwinn varsity.
I'd love to show you some time,
but I don't blame you.
I'd show it off.
I just wouldn't write it.
I got a I got a huffy vortex when I was it has the hubcaps on the white wheels.
So some sweet jumps, you know, if it didn't weigh 200 pounds, I could do some sweet jumps.
Yeah, that could be with some money.
Can you explain what dairy roads and logging routes are and how they're good for cycling?
It all sounds very dangerous, Bill.
I'm not going to lie to you.
Well, there's nothing dangerous about it.
When you look at this part of the state, it was the logging roads were first cut into
cut the white pine and the red pine in the northern forest.
And as the white pine was cut down, Marathon County, Taylor County, parts of Lincoln County became the Dairyland, the heartland of Wisconsin for dairy farms.
And at the 1890s, early 1900s, they used this red granite.
Sometimes they'd call it rotten granite up here to pave the roads.
And
And so that as the dairy farms have decreased in number, it's left these roads mostly abandoned for bikers.
And so a lot of them go through the national forest.
They go through state forest areas.
And so there's incredible scenery, iconic red barns.
Along two national scenic trails, one's a water trail and the other one is the ice age trail that parallel it.
So the scenery is just sort of incredible.
And typically the bikers that ride today, the road biking is in decline and a lot of particularly women want to move over to gravel and for family biking.
And so the speed limits on these gravel roads are about 35 miles an hour.
but it really lends itself to biking and very few cars.
Then you might run into an occasional move from a cow or a tractor, but not much else.
Okay.
And I guess I'm in the same boat as Pete too is like, you know, when I hear gravel or granite, I think, well, that sounds dangerous because when I think about riding a bike, I'm like, I want to ride on like concrete.
I know it's smooth, it's flat.
And to me, I think of like,
falling over a lot because I'm not very coordinated and stopped buying a bike since I was 10.
But as far as like, you know, you talked about the, you know, folks come from all over the country and all over the world to, to ride on this, on this system.
What is the like going forward with this new plan?
What, what does the economic impact for the community, for the area as far as like getting it out to the wider world and actually like really, really trying to market what you have up there.
Yeah, you know, great question.
So, you know, it's really folks like you getting the word out.
And when we launched the, the granite belt, we have the state of Wisconsin came in as one of our partners to create a, a master marketing plan to blow this out across the U S, but particularly in the Chicago and Northern with or Northern Illinois corridor.
But so we're just at the front end of that today.
And a lot of it is in magazines and people word of mouth come here.
And then in the fall, we have an epic race here called the Red Granite Grinder in the community of Athens.
And that draws about 600 bikers from all over the US to ride that gravel.
And, you know, there's all kinds of types of gravel.
I grew up in Iowa.
And down there, they call it white rock or limestone.
And the granite can be the, or they're not the granite, but the rock can be the size of a golf ball.
Up here, the granite is really fine.
And probably the size of, I'd say maybe
uh a third the size of a pea and because it's a faceted stone like a diamond it interlocks on itself and it creates a really hard pack to ride on and then that's really the uniqueness of granite and then we're just blessed with a lot of red granite up here.
and it makes for a great surface to ride on.
And we don't have too many people fall, but they're not driving a... Challenge accepted, Bill.
Yeah, come on up.
You don't have many people fall on a bike with a banana seat.
That's what I'm here for.
Oh yeah, there you go.
The banana seat and the high handlebars might be a challenge for you.
But as an example, we just had the governor up here two weeks ago.
And the first time he's ever ridden on granted, he's a street rider and he can't
came up to ride the Granite and he was like, Hey, I'm not sure I can do this, but you can ride Granite up here with any type of bike and for the most part any tire size, but most of the bikes today are gravel or e-bikes, but you can use mountain bikes on them and you can use street bikes if the tires wide enough.
So yeah, it's perfect.
Good to know.
Bill Bertram is on the, he's a board member with the Wausau and Marathon County Parks Foundation.
They're doing some great things in Central Wisconsin to make it the biking capital of the universe, folks.
You might, don't be surprised if you see some green little aliens riding bikes through Central Wisconsin.
It could, could happen.
Or if you believe in the
multiverse.
Another you.
That's right.
Exactly.
Wouldn't that be something?
I read an article too about what you guys are offering like in terms of the trails.
And you mentioned there were eight to 12 points of interest where cyclists could stop and read about the history of this area of our state.
What are some of those points of interest?
Yeah, you know it's there's 13 types of barns for example and our trail system has all 13 types from round barns to Dutch barns to English barns to Gable barns and what we found in looking at the data is that bicyclists like to stop and what we call point of interest signs and learn about the either the area of the state so
you know, one of the signs is how did Wisconsin earn the Dairy State title or, you know, what's unique about red granite?
You know, I had some buddies up from Chicago a couple years ago and they were, we were out riding and they said, what are all those tubes on the trees?
And I said, well, they're tapping and sapping maple.
And so we have signing to talks about
what that process is.
And so we have actually created a library, I think of 84 unique signs that we have on the different trails that talk about one room schoolhouses or, you know, kind of the history of barn raisings and life on the farm.
or the Dairy Farm, and why a cow goes moo and not hee-haw.
So yeah, some of the signs are funny and kind of amusing and others are more serious content.
But it really, we wanted to create an emotional connection to the bike riders so they come back and back.
And then we took this project and we said, hey, there's an opportunity to scale this across the state.
So now we're working with other groups in, uh, up in the superior area, for example, that's called the RIF geologically by the Geological Society of Wisconsin, because it was the original, uh, you can look at the bedrock and see that that was the, the coast of Pangea some billion, you know, years ago.
And we're up in Iron County and Ash and that becomes the iron belt and south of us.
around Stevens Point, Wisconsin Rapids becomes the central sands.
That was the bottom.
of Lake Wisconsin in the last glacial age.
And
so we've used the geological society has brought out a map to me when I was down there six months ago.
And I said, we were trying to figure out how to name these regions.
And they said, this is really easy.
Just look at our geology.
We have some of the most unique geology in the United States and the state of Wisconsin.
And so that's how we've come up with different areas to focus on after the granite belt.
Wow, that's
a...
We just have like a minute before we have to do a break, Bill, and then we'll get back into it again.
But just real quick, is it safe?
Are there cars, are cyclists in any danger of, I know the rural roads, but what are the dangers, if any?
You know, I think the dangers occasionally might be...
You know, you'd come across maybe a tractor or maybe a deer on the road or a porky pine or something.
These are pretty rural roads.
And they go through, the trailheads are all in rural communities.
And so it also helps strengthen these rural communities to get bikers into them.
And the communities are like 100% behind this.
This has been a home run for them in terms of creating what we call trail towns.
Well, it's good that we have, or that that area of our state has an actual trailblazer like yourself, and we'll talk a little bit more with our guest, Bill Bertram.
And we're going to talk about a really cool award he's won as well.
We are coming right back.
This is a Tuesday night version of Nightlight, perfect for some rock-dome.
I would agree with that.
So don't go anywhere, folks.
We are coming right back, and I'll remind you of what our really cool question of the night is to.
This is Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach on the Civic Media Network.
You're listening to Civic Media.
Find the latest news, information and archives of all your favorite shows on the Civic Media website, civicmedia.us.
Welcome back.
I'm Pete Schwabba, sitting just upstate from Greg Bach, and a little bit east and north of our pal, Dom Lee, who is holding down the fort in Madison.
We are the Yatterhey Triangle, and it is great to have you with us on this Tuesday night for a Tuesday edition of Nightlight, folks.
Our question of the night is, name a show, or what is a show would be more questionable for him, that you just couldn't get over the cancellation of.
Share that show.
I've actually got two.
We'll read your texts after the news early in hour number two, but be part of the show.
We have a few more minutes with our guest, Bill Bertram.
He is a cycling enthusiast and the board member, a board member of the Wausau and Marathon County Parks Foundation.
And the recent recipient of a Partner in Excellence Award from the RTCA, which is the Rivers Trails and Conservation Assistance Program, Midwest Region.
Bill, that's really exciting to be recognized like that.
And as much as you do for the outdoors and making it more feasible and more of a focus in Central Wisconsin, do you ever just get tired of it and say, I just want to sit inside and watch TV for a while?
Absolutely not.
I wish I could say that.
But, you know, this is going to sound crazy.
I actually lived in the Netherlands.
worked for a corporation and took early retirement to get involved in Civics.
And when I told the company I worked for, they go, you know, you could probably have any job in the world.
for what you've done, what are you gonna, you know, we'll bring you back to the US or you could stay in Europe.
And I said, and I want to, I want to retire and I want to, this sounds the nutty part.
I want to devote the rest of my life to doing good by my community and giving back for what I had had received.
And so that's, I don't get into the coffee club type thing at breakfast with,
other retirees and I just felt that I could make a difference in our larger community.
And that's what I
focus on.
I mean, that is absolutely wonderful.
And I hope more people hear this because I feel like we need more folks like yourself.
That is, that's great.
That's wonderful.
And congratulations on the award too.
Question I have for you is someone who's such an enthusiast of the granite belt of everything going on.
What is your favorite part of it?
Like when you're riding something, if you're riding with a friend, you want to stop it.
All right, stop.
We got point this out.
I want to get this to you.
I want to put this information in your head.
What's like your, what's your favorite part or parts of the trail?
Yeah, so since there's 13 distinct trails and they all offer a little bit something different, I think when I had people come up and ride, a lot of it is the trails just north of us where it parallels the Wisconsin River up in Lincoln County.
Some of those sites and vistas are just short of incredible, but I still get
really turned on when, you know, I come past an iconic red barn and a farm and see in cows.
And I think it's that idea of, you know, introducing the rest of the country to what we have in Wisconsin and then what we have here.
And so I do a lot of recreational bike riding.
I also, when I retired, I started an outdoor rec business called Iron Bull.
that we use that to bring people to Central Wisconsin to do our races.
So as an example, this coming Saturday, we have the largest adventure race in the United States being held here.
And so we typically use that to get people to come up here and experience our trail systems and the biking.
So there's some just, again, incredible vistas here and the scenery.
But I think the trails are kind of, I didn't design them, but they're enjoyable to ride because they offer you a little bit of everything.
That's awesome.
That is great.
Bill, we have a couple more minutes.
I love that something I read in one of these articles when I was doing some research on you, you guys are trying to determine the economic impact of the gravel trails.
But for an example, last year in Vilas County, you had 160,000 bikers come.
The economic impact was like 23 million bucks.
That's incredible.
And will that only grow?
Is the word getting out?
Yeah, yeah.
You know, in today's world, at least with foundations and sponsors, it's not just enough anymore to say, hey, you're going to feel good.
This is a great experience and gives you a warm fuzzy.
We want to know what the return on investment is.
put our money into your organization or what you work on.
Economic impact is critically important to see if we're winning or losing.
Wisconsin is an exit state for young people.
Marathon County is an exit county.
There's just a couple of counties in the state that are growing.
So that economic impact, the ability to draw people here to wanna live and experience what we all experience is today,
critically important to us.
And so we use that economic impact with local businesses as well as foundations and then ways to attract people here.
That's a great answer.
Yeah.
I was just going to ask, are these only bike trails?
Can people hike or can they camp along the trails at all?
Yeah, so
we have our longest trail is 357 miles loop trail.
And we have camping all along it.
And it's, we believe the first branded bike packing trail in the state.
And that's another fast growing segment of biking is people that want to bike and camp.
And they call it adventuratory.
So we created that to draw people here from around the country that want that experience.
That's great stuff, Bill.
If you're out on the trail and you hear someone
and a little ringer bell.
And I say, on your left, that's just me.
I just want to let you know in case I'll be very courteous.
Those little things that are hanging off the handlebar
that are blowing in the wind.
I'll have a baseball card in the spokes and Greg and I will be on a selfie together to look really weird.
It's a tandem bike.
It's actually a tandem bike.
Oh, that's even better.
Bill Bertram, keep up the great work, sir.
Win many more awards and draw more people to your area.
It's a beautiful area.
Thanks so much for your time
tonight.
Thank you guys a ton.
So you've got it.
All
right.
We are coming right back after the news to read your text.
have a few more laughs and a lot of fun.
It's great to be happy here with us on Nightlight.
I'm Pete Schwab.
He's Greg Bach.
We're coming right back on the Civic
Media
Network.
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