Civic Media Spotlight: Tapping Into Wisconsin’s Sweet Tradition (Hour 1)

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the Civic Media Spotlight.

Hello and welcome to the first hour of the Civic Media Spotlight.

We begin with Daybreak with Brian and Jamie.

Brian and Jamie are joined by Teresa Barrett from the Wisconsin Maple Syrup Producers Association.

She tells us some of the ins and outs of collecting and making maple syrup.

Wisconsin is one of the nation's leaders in its production.

Despite the great interest in it, there is a threat to the future of the industry in Wisconsin due to climate

change.

And I'm Brian Noonan, remember it is April Fool's Day, so be skeptical, even more skeptical than you normally are of everything that comes your way today, except for this.

This is a true statement, and I know that's a red flag whenever anybody says that.

That's when you go, hey,

why is he saying that if it's not?

But listen, let's be honest, who doesn't love delicious maple syrup poured over some pancakes, waffles, French toast?

If your buddy the elf, you put it on spaghetti.

Everybody loves fresh maple syrup.

Real maple syrup has become a staple in Wisconsin, but there are fears that climate change could bring an end to it in the next generation, at least in the southern part of the state.

So what can be done?

slow that prediction?

How does one make maple syrup?

And can Jamie finally start her own sugar camp?

The answer to all of those questions and more hopefully will come from our guest.

We are joined now by Teresa Barone.

She's from the Wisconsin Maple Syrup Producers Association.

Teresa, thank you for being here.

This is music to Jamie's ears to have you with

us.

I love maple syrup.

I think it's really cool.

I think the tapping process is neat, so I'm excited to learn more this morning.

And

we will.

We will definitely

learn more but let's start with let's start with this before we even get to climate concerns how much maple syrup is actually produced in Wisconsin and where in the state does it come from predominantly

well per nest stats last year Wisconsin made about five hundred and fifty six thousand gallons of maple syrup valued at nearly fifteen million dollars but if every producer that made maple syrup throughout the state

reported to NASA that they made maple syrup, we'd be above and beyond.

We actually beat out Maine in production last year.

So now Wisconsin has become third in the nation in maple syrup production.

Wow.

That's amazing.

I had no idea.

So what is, I mean, obviously there's economic impacts to maple syrup, but culturally and historically, what is Wisconsin's ties to the maple syrup industry?

Well really maple syrup the industry has always been kind of family tradition.

It's brought families together so people from you know generation to generation have continued that that great process of making the maple syrup it started out you know many years

ago with indigenous people, and then people kind of followed on that tradition to take that sap from a maple tree and boil it out to a maple syrup.

You see a lot more small hobbyists coming in.

People are tapping one to two trees in their yard.

On average, a taphole could give you about 10 gallons of sap and make about a quart of syrup.

Oh, so.

See, Jamie, see, all you need is a couple little trees.

I do, I do.

To get

things going.

Wait, say that last part again, Theresa.

How much to get one quart of syrup that sounded like a lot of sap to make one quart of syrup?

To make one quart of syrup, of course, depending on your sugar content, but it's about 10 gallons of sap.

Wow.

Wow.

And it comes, like, from what I've seen, and I've only seen some videos I've never seen before, the sap comes out in little drips, right?

Yeah, it's not like a fossil where you open it up and oh all the sap just comes flowing out and you'll get

your

10 gallons in five minutes

No, it slowly drips a lot depends on the weather.

We need freezing nights above freezing during the day It's crazy with this storm we had that week I've never seen sap run so fast and continuous run after that

once we had

the storm on

um Sunday Monday by Wednesday Thursday our trees were constantly running they they usually shut off with their freeze thought cycle they did not shut they ran overnight for a day which is crazy we had pills running over and a real constant drip

We're talking with Teresa Barrow, and she's the executive director of the Wisconsin Maple Syrup Producers Association, wismaple.org, if you want to check out some of the information they have.

So let's start there with what you were saying, because we're hearing that the season for maple syrup is starting earlier than it has in years past.

So what's happening exactly on the ground, and how different does it look now than it did even 10, 20 years ago, Teresa?

You know, it seems would, of course, with the climate change, yes, it's starting earlier.

Usually Southern Wisconsin starts before Northern Wisconsin.

Southern Wisconsin, most of our producers were done about a week ago.

They usually start tapping, you know, about two weeks.

I'm from the Green Bay area before we start tapping.

Basically, it's just changed the way, you know, with everything has changed throughout everywhere.

So the the focus of this with the climate screwing things up for tapping season is the southern part if if down the road The maple trees in the southern part of the state kind of fade away Get to because correct me if I'm wrong the trees have to be under a certain height They it's the the bigger the trees get the more the tree itself uses the sugar So if those trees fade away are there other kind of trees?

in the state that that could be tapped and utilized for some sort of syrup?

You can tap birch, you can tap, but you also can do a lot more planting, replanting your trees.

A tree takes about 25 years to grow before it can be tapped.

It needs to be between 10 and 12 inches in diameter.

So replanting tree growth I think will help in cleaning your forest or cleaning your sugar bush also helps with that.

So those trees aren't fighting against other trees.

I can't foresee that it'll ever completely go away.

I mean, it's something that continues and more southern states are starting to tap.

You got Indiana, you got Kentucky, you got Western states.

Portland has a different kind of maple and they started tapping out there called the big leaf maple.

Each are producing a sap and what happens as the warmer climate

Comes or as it gets warmed through the season people just have to really cook that sap faster and really Listen to mother nature that when the buds start coming out.

It's time for us to be done taking the sap from those trees so it can go into making the leaves The tree we're never we're not hurting the trees.

It's kind of like a bait our veins in our body where we give blood Yeah, and regenerates that save as a sap on the maple trees

I'm going to go there for just a second, because you mentioned the storms last week, made the sap flow constantly.

So for people who don't understand the process, what are you hoping for for a good maple syrup season?

What conditions are ideal?

Well, you hope this maple season, there was a lot of frost in the ground.

So we had ideal conditions.

When I say ideal conditions, it'd be 20s at night, 35 to 40, more like 38 to 40, 42 during the day.

And those are more of your ideal.

What happened is we had a great week where we should have surf running, both the frost was so far on the ground, the sap didn't, I should say sap running, the sap didn't run.

We had that warm weather.

If we didn't have the frost on the ground where we had those 70 degree days,

that would cause your trees to of course go into thinking it was spring in the budding.

So when we got that second set of snow it kind of insulated that ground and then we had those warm temperatures again saving the season a little bit.

So if it hits a period of a week of warm temperatures or even 80

high temperatures, it'll shut the trees off.

In 2012, many producers throughout the state of Wisconsin had a three-day season.

On average, a season is between 30 and 45 days.

Wow.

So, for people like Jamie who want to do this at home, and we're talking to Teresa Barone, she's from the Wisconsin Maple Syrup Producers Association, wismaple.org is their website.

How many trees would you need to plant to get, and again, you said the trees took

20 years to grow before they were able to be tapped.

How many trees do you need to get those 10 gallons of sap that you said will give me one quart of syrup?

So how much land is Jamie going to have to buy to start Jamie's syrup farm, her sugar camp?

Honestly, you can tap your tree in your yard.

You have a maple in your yard.

You can tap that tree.

One tree will give you that 10 gallons of sap on an average year.

So you see more and more people if you go through many towns or Anywhere you see bags on the trees people are just tapping that one tap boiling it down on a propane Some people use a turkey fryer hence no turkey oil has could be used in it because it'll take on The taste of that that the bigger surface area the faster your sap will cook down The big thing is cooking it in something that will not take on a taste

Maple sap and maple syrup anything you put that in takes on the taste of that container yes one person and The Wisconsin maple syrup producer association has an amazing beginners book that we give for free that talks about Getting us, you know how to start up from you know one tap to ten taps Interesting so

if like now it's almost too late right even if because the season the tapping season is about over but

If you start planning, you could theoretically, Jamie, you could do this next year.

You could tap one of your trees and just have it.

How long, how long a process does it take them to boil it down, Teresa?

Depends on the sugar content.

Oh,

so science.

So it could take, yeah, it could take, ah, you know, I can't say how long, 10, 12 hours depends on how your surface area is.

It can take 24 hours.

Usually, so like a lawn tree.

or

a tree not fighting other trees, and if it's a sugar maple, we'll have higher sugar content.

So hence it'll take less sap to boil down.

You probably hear a lot, 40 to 140 gallons, so a gallon of syrup.

Yeah, the higher the sugar content, the less sap you need to boil that down into syrup.

Interesting.

We've got one of our listeners chiming in saying that a sister of hers has land in northern Minnesota and a neighbor in that area taps her trees, does all the work, and then pays her a dozen quarts for a dozen quarts of syrup.

So you're right.

Anybody could do this with even just a little amount of tree and land.

Now, you personally, Teresa, you and your husband have been doing this since the 1990s.

You were Maple producer of the year in 2024.

So how is your operation personally?

changed over time from when you first started till what you do today.

So we started when I was little.

We had a few taps.

We cooked out in the woods on an open pan.

So in a few, three years ago, we bought a new evaporator, a little more efficient.

We're all on wood.

fired.

This year we put in an RO, which has helped with efficiency, something new to us.

We have forced vacuum systems.

We use a solar vacuum system, an electric vacuum system.

And then we also have a gravity vacuum system, which is that we have three vacuum systems.

So our little sugarbush of 1,200

TAPS has grown to about 2,000.

We buy SAP from other neighbors.

We work a lot around one of our neighbors and we also really value education.

So we bring in lots of tours.

four ages, school groups, we do a big open house to help educate people about Maple.

That

sounds great.

Teresa Barone is with the Wisconsin Maple Syrup Producers Association.

If you want to get in on those tours, if you want to get a beginner book, if you want any information about all things Maple Syrup, wismaple.org is the website.

Teresa, this was fascinating.

I could talk to you about the process all day.

Thank you so much for being here.

That was a lot of fun.

Thank you guys for having me.

I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Have a great day.

You too.

It

is

so strange.

Oh,

yeah.

Oh, no, no, no.

We got to go.

We do.

Parker, are you going to give us a wrap up?

I was just going to say, when you taste real maple syrup, you can say

so.

Over the, you know, Mrs. Butterworth.

Oh, yeah.

No comparison.

No

comparison.

No comparison.

All right.

We're

going to talk a little sporty sports after this.

We are.

748 right now on the Civic Media Network.

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Visit civicmedia.us slash email to get started.

Welcome back to the Civic Media Spotlight.

We stay right here with Daybreak with Brian and Jamie.

NASA is heading to the moon for the first time in decades with its Artemis II mission that already launched this week.

They talk about how cool it is to see return to space.

Brian also mentions the nostalgia of it for his generation as well as rallying around the fact that everyone can support this even in today's divided world.

622 right now.

We hope that your morning is off to a great start.

Hopefully you're staying dry.

Take an umbrella with you if you're in parts of the state today because

you're going to

need a chance that you're going to be super wet.

I want to make sure if you haven't, because I hadn't looked outside when I left the house today.

I had no idea how hard it was raining until my garage door went up.

So, you know, if you're, don't be like me, essentially, is what I'm trying to tell you this morning.

Be more aware of your surroundings before you walk outside.

I always leave an umbrella in the car.

There's an umbrella in my car all the time, just

in case.

Yes.

But that's me.

I'm an old boy scout.

Hey, did you watch the Artemis II launch yesterday?

How did it make you feel?

We want to share your experiences.

855-75 Civic.

Parker, I'm going to give you all the numbers.

855-752-4842.

That's how you get ahold of us.

The launch went off without a hitch.

It sounded like this.

Cut one, Parker.

Four.

Three, two, one.

Booster ignition.

And lift off.

The crew of Artemis 2 now bound for the moon.

Wow.

It

was, did you, I watched.

I did, I

did.

Here's, can I, can I throw, can I air a grievance?

Sure.

I had been watching for about 40 minutes prior to the T-minus 10-minute countdown.

So I was almost an hour invested as we got to 32 seconds and CNN's feed went dead.

Oh no!

Yes.

So by the

time I got back, I don't know.

By the time I got back, it came back.

It was, uh, and they had to run their two minutes of commercials before

the feed

would start again.

I was a minute and a half or two minutes into the flight.

So I missed the actual, the actual takeoff.

I had been watching this whole time.

I saw them pull back the walkway.

I saw the engines fire up.

I was like, here we go.

This is so I watched the woman in, uh,

Command say Godspeed Artemis 2, let's go.

I saw that they were going to travel 10,000 miles an hour.

I was ready.

Oh.

I still, it's still, you know, they weren't that far away when it came back, but I was

like.

Still.

That's a huge miss on their CNN's part.

I was

furious.

That

feels like somebody didn't do their due diligence through the entire event.

And that's very disappointing because one of the things I was going to actually say is that

For me, yesterday watching it, right?

I had instant chills.

I mean, from the countdown until I watched them lift off, there was instant chills because there was this feeling of nostalgia, there's this feeling of pride.

And one of the things that I think is most fascinating about the timeframe that we live in is our capability of cameras and streaming.

Because then I started thinking, this is where my mind goes, perhaps if we would have had this sort of technology,

years ago people wouldn't say oh that moonwalk was fake nobody ever did that because you get I mean right now you get to be right there you get to see the entire process it's so cool.

I love being able to see it but did anybody else panic when there was this shot from inside or outside the rocket and it showed panels like flying away

which they're

supposed to do but I see something fly off and I'm like oh my god what happened?

Oh, that's just okay.

That's the stage of the rocket.

Yes, leaving.

Let's calm down because I said yesterday I I remember watching the challenge.

Yep.

I was in court and sitting outside and it was on the TV.

It was horrible.

Yes.

So I didn't I didn't want to see that but man, it couldn't have been a more glorious

day.

It was

gorgeous.

So many people in Florida watching this.

And your your point about nostalgia, Jamie and pride is apt because

I'll be out for me only.

I only speak for me.

There's not a lot to be proud of in this country right now.

I was proud to see all the people turn out for the protests the other day.

That made me proud to be an American.

This made me proud because it brought me back to the nostalgia part of it.

Being a kid and being in grades through drawing pictures of

the

Rockets and drawing pictures of the Apollo missions and just watching this and remembering, you know, the when

Neil Armstrong did walk on the moon.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

But just the whole thing was great.

32 story rocket that bless

I

was so cool to watch.

And thankfully, everything went well.

So

now,

now they're out there going to orbit the earth.

And then they're going to hang

Head out to the moon.

They said they could just imagine like hearing the astronauts say, oh, we have a beautiful moon rising.

We're heading right toward it.

We could say I'm like, it's incredible.

Dude, that is so cool.

And what I love about all of this is if you are one of those people who wants to follow this journey, there's going to be a NASA is going to be streaming so much of this from inside the actual rocket.

The Kennedy Space Center is going to be streaming so much of this.

You're going to be able to listen to the astronauts, see how they're living.

until obviously they lose contact because they have to make that loop back around.

But it is, it is, I just think it's, it's awesome what technology, technology scares me in certain ways, but when it's used for the right purposes, it is so cool because like you, I remember the challenger, I was in fourth grade, right?

So I remember watching that live on the TVs and,

you know,

our teachers just being like, having to answer all of these questions from all of these kids and they didn't understand what was happening.

But I,

I just, I love that we get to experience that.

And there's even some Wisconsin ties.

I was reading this morning that one of the women who works in the command center is actually from the great state of Wisconsin.

So

she's going to be a

major part of this.

So, I mean, there, there is this feeling of, when we live in this time that we live in, there is this feeling of, Hey, you know what, we can actually do some really cool stuff yet.

And science is awesome.

It was a moment where everybody, not only in America, but I'm sure other places around the world was

cheering for the same thing.

Like

everybody was on the

same page.

And it also humbles me because I realize how many really, really smart people there are who can, again, going back to the first time, looking up at space and going, yeah, we're going to go there.

How are you?

And they do.

They figure it out and they go.

Did you feel smarter because we had gone through the terminology?

I did.

I was like, ooh, now I know what that term means.

I know what that term

means.

Oh yeah, I'm Mr. Astronaut.

I'm Johnny Space.

That'll be fun.

Uh, did you watch the president's address last night?

I would love to hear your thoughts because I know Jamie has thoughts.

I know I have thoughts.

So what are your thoughts?

8-5-5-7-5-7-5-5-7-5-2-4-8-4-2.

We will talk about that next.

I'm Brian Noonan.

This is Daybreak.

I'm Jamie Martinson.

Turns out the president doesn't have many thoughts.

You are listening to the Civic Media Network.

Moving on from Daybreak, we have Nightlight with Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach.

The guys talk to best-selling author and podcaster Don Martin to talk about the recent national book ban proposed in the bill HR7661.

Don gives his thoughts on why this bill is harmful to all children and deprives much-needed language and education.

That was more decisive that time, Don.

I like that.

That was a serious point.

Hey, welcome back to Nightlight.

I'm Pete Schwabba, sitting upstate from Mr. Greg Bach, who is...

live in Kenosha and Dom Lee working the board.

I am in Racine.

But you live in Kenosha.

Yes.

Okay.

I'm in Radio Park.

You know how you make me say Christmas USAville?

Would you ever get right by the way?

It's fine.

It's holiday fest.

Maybe if you gave a little more

effort.

I want to believe in you giving yourself a nickname, but I really can't do that right now.

All I'm saying is I'm in Racine.

Respect Racine.

I don't think...

It's that big of a difference, really.

I'm scared you guys are

fighting.

Oh, man.

Let's keep that tension, Greg, for our next guest.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, our next guest is the New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of books like Verity, Fox, and The Curse of Foxfire, and Where Did Everybody Go?

It's my pleasure to welcome our next guest here at Night Light, Don Martin.

Hi, Don.

Hi, Pete.

Hi, Greg.

Thanks

so much for having me.

Hi, Don.

Hi,

also, Don.

Hello.

Hi, everybody.

This is the Yatterhey Triangle, one of our listeners called it, because we're sort of in different spaces.

But it's great to have you here, Don.

How are you tonight?

I am doing really well.

I very much appreciate the invitation getting to chat with you all.

I also appreciate, Pete, the specificity with which you were trying to call out Greg's home address.

It's like, oh, you're not, you're not a Racine.

You're, you're next to that Duncan donut.

You know the one on the corner.

It's like, it's like he's trying to dox you live

on here.

I appreciate it.

His address certainly isn't 3842 happy street.

I'm just putting that out there.

That would be funny if there actually was someone at that particular.

No, not trying to dox anyone.

We're all friends here and now you're our new friend Don.

Do you have, before we jump into some of your amazing work here, do you have a preferred prom date?

Could be a celebrity or a real life person or someone you absolutely would not want to go to prom with?

Oh yeah, well absolutely.

I graduated high school in 2004.

So like everybody with a pulse, I wanted to go to prom with Tom Welling.

Superman.

From Smallville.

Early 2000s, Tom Welling.

I feel like I'm some kind of missionary in the church of early 2000s, Tom Welling.

I enter

a room.

St.

Thomas.

Yeah, just St.

Thomas of Abbs.

You'd probably have a better chance now.

I'm guessing back then his dance card was pretty

hot.

So, and I don't know that any prom is going to invite me.

But if I do ever get a chance to go to a prom and Tom Welling is down, my husband said it was okay.

So.

Oh, nice hall pass.

Yeah.

Nice.

Yeah.

Nice.

Yeah.

That's a great answer.

Let's talk about, boy, I don't even know where to start here.

Let's talk book banning because this is something that is being you know people are using ruses and there's all these kinds of did you see the movie the librarians?

Sure sure

and I've

seen Footloose and I've read 1984 and I've read you know all of them you know you read all of them and it's

and

it's something that you feel like well that's isn't that awful that we did that in the past and that's

Isn't that awful that those crazy people, 80 years, those weird people with their tiny brains?

Of course, those people were into book banning, not like us evolved people now.

It's not a ban, it's a challenge.

We're doing it something different.

We're not the bad guys.

It's because of...

The kids.

Oh my gosh.

Man alive.

The Simpsons had it right.

Well, somebody think of the children.

Yes.

There is nothing that people love more than using children as a shield.

But right now, I mean, it just seems like.

Because of everything, when we're talking about the Epstein files, Iran, we're talking about the bill, the budget that passed last year, everything that's happening compounds upon each other.

And something like HR 7661, which is introducing this book ban, it flies into the radar.

People don't know about it.

And not because they're bad people or because...

There's just so much news happening.

So much going on.

And the problem is, you know, meta just lost a lawsuit.

And so now there's a bunch of words that if you say your video, your content gets, you can't be seen.

So talking about a bill like this that is specifically going to target trans and queer stories.

But if you think it's going to stop there, I have a bridge in a fictional town I would love to sell you.

Trying to talk about that at all automatically gets your content suppressed so it's it's far less likely that people Know about it, but the thing is to me this isn't a question like it won

It's the first time we've ever had a nationwide book ban, the potential to have a nationwide book ban.

Up until this point, the Supreme Court has ruled multiple times in multiple different cases, and it's been upheld repeatedly in courts that children don't leave their civil liberties at the schoolhouse door.

They carry them with them into the classroom.

They have a right to read.

They have a right to learn.

So barring the fact that this is the first of its kind nationwide book band, the other thing that this is doing that I really want to stress to parents, to educators, to librarians, to anybody who might be hearing about this for the first time is that this is the federal government telling you what your children can and cannot read.

And that is what I think the most important talking point is here because here's the thing.

Let's say you don't want to read books like mine.

Let's say that you think books like mine shouldn't be in front of kids.

Let's say that you think any trans or queer author, any authors of any kind who are in any part of the rainbow spectrum, those books shouldn't be available to kids for whatever reasons you're going to make up and tell yourself to help you sleep better at night.

When eventually we've got a Democrat in the White House?

When eventually we have a Democratic majority in the House and or the Senate which could happen this year.

I mean, hey, you know in terms Do you want if you are on the opposite side of the aisle for me if you are ideologically opposed to me?

Do you want the Democrats telling you in your?

You know deep red household what your children can and cannot read because that's the precedent

we are about to set.

And that's the president Republicans, for some reason, seem to be endorsing.

It's not, hey, let's take a look on a case by case basis as to whether or not this particular book is actually age appropriate.

Let's not take off the table.

Oh, I'm not going to let school boards decide.

I'm not going to let states decide.

We, the federal government,

are paternalistic we know better than you what your child should and should not read so we are going to make that decision for you and once that precedent is set it is very very difficult to roll it back and it's very easy for it to become

overgeneralized, hyperbolic, and start having a lot of other kinds of books, a lot of other kinds of voices, a lot of other kinds of stories shoved into it.

What I think a lot of people don't understand, Greg, you brought up a very good point.

There's a lot of stuff happening right now, the Epstein files.

People are very concerned about the predators that are in office, the predators that are in the White House, all of that kind of thing.

This bill passes, you are making easier prey for predators because it doesn't just

ban books regarding transgender and queer stories, it also would ban books with sexual content.

Sexual content includes sex ed.

Sexual content includes books that teach kids what good touch and bad touch is, what it means to consent, what the proper names are for their bodies, and if children are robbed of that language,

They are robbed of the ability to advocate for themselves.

They are robbed of the ability to go to a trusted adult and say, hey, I was touched by so-and-so.

I didn't want that.

I didn't like it.

This is where they touched me.

This is how they touched me.

and you are making a predator's job much easier.

That's not something the left is looking for.

That's not something the left wants.

We want to make predators jobs a lot harder.

We don't want predators to have easy prey.

We want kids to have language.

We want kids to be able to advocate for themselves.

That's a great point.

It's a fantastic point.

And really quick, I just want to say this really quick out loud, HR 7661 is named very, you know, very moderate.

This stops sexual, stop the sexualization of children act, which they love to throw those words out there to make people go, Oh, well, and this is, and this is the thing.

This is the thing, Don.

And we see this right now in Wisconsin.

We have an amendment for a constitution that will get rid of DEI, essentially, for the most part.

And what they do is they couch it in language and a concern that, well, don't you want your children to be safe?

Sure.

Pete, Dom, everyone out there, don't you want your children to be safe?

And folks out there who are good folks, just, well, of course they do.

I want that, of course, but they don't read the fine print.

They don't read what it's about.

And then before they know it, like you said, things are taken away.

They don't read the fine print and they don't like, in that HR 7661, it was Mary Miller from Illinois in the 15th congressional district who tried to-

My state gets to own that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They try to

job Illinois.

Tried to

ban.

That's another thing.

Yeah.

People that live in blue states like to pat themselves on the back

and say

stuff like, well, you know, those red states, they got what they voted for.

Baby, doll, sugar, honey, bumpkin on a log.

This book banning legislation came from a deep blue state.

You go 15 minutes south of Chicago.

It's Alabama, honey.

It can come

from

anywhere.

None of your blue states are as blue as you think they are.

And the inverse is true as well.

None of your red states are as red as you think they are.

Texas

has

been purple for decades.

It's just been gerrymandered

all the

hell.

There's so many states out there that people think are safe.

It's not.

We've seen this.

We saw in the last election, the Rust Belt can go.

I'm from West Virginia.

My book, Verity Box and the Curse of Fox Fires, about its fictional town in West Virginia, that was a diehard blue state for decades.

Decades and decades.

Why?

Because of the labor movement, because of unions, because we used to advocate for people to have labor rights and equity.

And then we forgot about those people.

And then coal stopped being a thing.

And then there wasn't any industry to replace it.

And a lot of people said, hey, I bet that's an easy target.

We can go in there and we can make them think that we value them instead.

And it's easy to turn things.

There's no such thing as a, you know, it's an always blue, always red.

Yeah.

So I think that there's so many people out there who rest on their laurels and just kind of assume

Well, my state will always be blue.

My state will always be red.

There's no sense in voting.

There's no sense in getting involved.

Your involvement, your vote absolutely matters.

If we've seen nothing else in the last 15, 20 years, it's that any state can flip.

Any state can flip, and legislation like this can also come from any state.

That is Don Martin best-selling author.

He's our guest right now on nightlight and we are talking about book banning and Here's what I love about that is she she said it called for a strip Mary this Mary Miller called for a ban that strippers can't strip in schools now

Okay, I think she puts that in there to make it sound like okay This is happening and people want to believe that but to clarify they can still serve hot lunch and be hall monitors I'm just saying America keep their clothes.

Yeah, we do love a straw man argument We love you love inventing something that you know kids are pooping in litter boxes All those all those furry children are pooping in litter boxes

But

that's not, but that's not true.

But that's not true.

It doesn't matter if it's true.

I said it.

So therefore it's, it's, I get to say a thing because I always

love when people bring stuff up like that.

Oh, all this stuff is happening in schools.

Aren't you terrified?

I'm like,

Every kid has a whole recording studio.

They record themselves walking to and from everywhere.

They record every thought that is in their head.

You think that if there was a kid wearing cat ears, pooping in a litter box in the middle of a classroom of 35 children, that that wouldn't be on TikTok within the millisecond?

Where is the content?

Where is the proof?

Where is the video?

These kids die to go viral.

You're telling me that they're going to miss that opportunity?

Absolutely not.

That's fake.

It's fake news.

It's made

up.

Well said.

Let's pick up there.

We've got to do a very quick break.

Best selling author Don Martin is here.

We'll have him for another segment after this really quick break.

Don't go anywhere, folks.

This is Pete Schwabba and Greg Bach and Nightlight on the Civic Media Network.

You're listening to Civic Media.

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We stick right here with Pete and Greg on Nightlight on the Civic Media Spotlight.

The guys talk to Louis Smith, executive director of the Chad Smith Foundation, about bringing the foundation's mission to Milwaukee.

He shares the origin behind Chad Smith's vision, why his music matters so much, and how local partnerships are helping expand access for young musicians.

Enjoy up there in Christmastown, USA and Marinette, Wisconsin is Peach Waba over in Madison is Mr. Dominic Lee.

We are the Yatterhay Triangle and we are talking to Don Martin, who is a New York Times USA today and independent bestseller author of Verity Vox and the Curse of the Fox fire as well as where did everybody go?

We're talking about a

book band legislation that has been, has been passed, HR 7661.

If you want to listen to that part of the, if you're just joining us and you want to listen to that entire conversation, go to civicmedia.us slash shows, look for nightlight, download today's episode and go back and listen to it as a podcast.

Love to have you catch up with this interview because this is a great discussion.

Don, something I wanted to bring up because some, you know, we had been, we had been discussing this book, Verity Vox and the curse of the Fox fire.

for some time now as an alternate to Harry Potter.

And today is International Transgender Day of Visibility.

And I think it's important to have this conversation now and every day.

I'm someone who watched and read Harry Potter.

I love the books.

I love everything about it.

I love the conversations I've had with people.

There's a TV show coming out in December, but I despise everything JK Rowling stands for.

And I don't want to give her my money.

And I along with other folks,

Struggle with this thing of like do I watch don't I watch am I a bad person if I do I mean it's it kind of sounds like a first world problem But it's something people struggle with because it's for a lot of individuals.

This is big portions of their childhood and What do you say to people in a way that makes you know like I don't want to say to them like you're terrible if you watch it But I also understand the struggle.

What do you say to the conversations that happen when it comes to things like this?

I was 11 years old when that first book came out.

I was 11.

Harry was 11.

Every single year a book came out.

Harry grew up.

I grew up.

I grew up right along with Harry.

And they formed a big part of my worldview.

They formed a big part of why I loved fantasy, the idea of an escape.

But they also, of course, formed an idea of community.

We're all searching for community.

We're searching to connect with other people like us, other little weirdo kids who felt like they were the kid under the stairs, right?

The thing about it is, though, I'm not 11 years old anymore.

I understand that my comfort and nostalgia shouldn't come at the safety of other people.

We know that every single penny that is put into JK Rowling's pocket is turned around and put directly into organizations that are specifically intended to harm trans people, not just trans people, like all women.

I think people forget that, that legislation that harms trans people harms everyone, like the IOC, the International Olympic Committee, just put in a rule that says that all women are going to have to be genetically tested to ensure that they have XX chromosomes.

That's supposed to be like a

Like an anti-trans thing, right?

Well, we're trying to root out the trend.

But now every single female athlete in the world has to undergo this extra testing and prove themselves.

Anti-trans legislation harms everyone.

I don't want to be a part of harm.

Here's the thing.

Those books, those worlds have been around for decades.

For decades.

probably already own the movies.

Nobody's coming into your house and saying, you can't watch a movie that came out 20 years ago.

Nobody's coming into your house and saying, you can't reread the books that came out in 1997.

Go reread your old books, go watch your old movies.

Nobody's saying that.

People are just saying, hey, maybe don't put new money in that woman's pocket.

Maybe don't use your public platform to say, hey, nah.

Harry Potter is my life.

The other thing that people don't seem to understand is there are so many other worlds out there.

Worlds like mine, Verdi Vox and the Curse of Foxfire is the first of a trilogy.

You want a magical book for magical kids.

You want to reignite that spark of nostalgia, that spark of magic, that spark of whimsy and wonder.

In a world that's a little bit more inclusive, a little bit more welcoming, that has more modern sensibilities, my world is there for you.

But there's so many other worlds as well for kids and kids at heart, kids of all ages.

There's The Marvelers by Daniel Clayton.

There's Witchlings by Clara Bell A. Ortega.

There's The Sunbearer Trials by Aidan Thomas.

There are so many other books, so many other authors, so many other worlds.

And the great thing is they're all series.

They all have merch.

They all have communities.

They all have fandoms you can be a part of.

And that's what I think people are missing.

You know, I did also write a book called Where Did Everybody Go about the Loneliness Epidemic and a big.

part of why people feel so disconnected is we lack that sense of community.

There's a lot fewer places to bond with other people.

So fandom feels like a place, even though it's not a place, where we can bond with others.

Occasionally, we can go to fan conventions.

Occasionally, we can go do all those kinds of things.

And the thing about

fandom is that it is a connective tissue.

It can bind us to other people.

If I haven't met you before, but I see, you know, that little mocking J pin or something, I have a connection with

you.

I feel less alone in the world, but people are so afraid to give up that connection.

I promise those other worlds, Verity Vox is here for you.

Other worlds are out there for you.

Yeah.

And if you have to,

Rent Harry Potter go to the library.

Hey, we just know the

library Give libraries a reason to continue existing and receiving funding.

We love libraries.

I want to say something really quick to the whole discussion about JK Rowling is the fact that if you if you go on YouTube and you just type in JK Rowling and Shane is his name Sean SHA you and he does a great long breakdown of her her politics and the fact that the people that she's supporting these women's groups that she's supporting are actually

sidling up to groups that are white supremacists, essentially.

I did

just want to say one quick thing, Greg.

You

said that HR 7661 has passed.

The good news is it came out of committee, but it hasn't passed the health.

Oh, my apologize.

We are

expecting a vote all the way as early as April 13th.

So it is important for everybody listening now that cares about this, no matter which side of the aisle you're on, call your representative today.

And people do seem to be rallying around libraries, which is good.

So hopefully there's hope there.

But thank you so much, Don.

This has been great getting to know you.

Thanks guys for having me.

We'll get you back soon.

Yeah, great conversation.

All right, we are coming back after the news folks.

We're going to read some of your texts.

And then Ben Reiser is here to talk about the Outstanding Wisconsin Film Festival.

That's an hour number two.

This is Beach Wamba and Greg Bach and Nightlight on the.

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