Transcript
Is it socialist to oppose corporal punishment in schools? (Hour 2)
Civic Media · Wed Feb 26, 2025
Thank you for tuning in and listening.
You could be a big part 855-752-484-2855-75CIVIC.
Got lots to get to this hour, but I know we have some
kind of lingering conversation with regards to choice slash voucher slash charter.
Call it what you want schools here in the state of Wisconsin.
Half a billion dollars going towards that effort.
We do have the election coming up April 1st for a new DPI secretary, right?
Dr. Jill Underly right now is the superintendent.
She'll be on the ballot against the what the person who makes money.
Consulting to the voucher schools.
Well, is Susan M or Susan B Crawford?
Who knows?
a little baseball on that, but we'll just say the Cubs.
So we'll put that one on the back burner as well.
Some of the court cases going against Donald Trump and Doge and more as well.
We'll get to it all.
We promise eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, but to put a, put a bowl on the, the education conversation for now, for now, for this very moment from the raw story, Republican state senator in Oklahoma, fruitlessly raged as his colleagues passed a bill
passed a bill to outlaw corporal punishment of disabled students in schools.
SB 364 introduced earlier this month by fellow Republican Senator David Raider Revives a long controversial issue that it has been frequently debated in the state legislature
As the bill was debated, Senator Shane Jett, one of the most outspoken opponents of the bill, told Raider that, here's his grievance, the Bible sanctions corporal punishment and demanded to know how his legislation conforms with Scripture.
The Bible sanctions corporal punishment and demanded to know how his legislation conforms with Scripture.
I mean does the Bible say some all sorts of things that probably are I think are illegal like if God tells you
must stone so hit them with rocks until they die that's all right now can use this sing rock rig lock over and over or you have to like throw it
You got, there's a, there's a, I'm not sure.
See, I think there's a legit, like a, there's a rule of stone.
You got to dig a hole.
They got to put a minute and you got like, throw stuff at him.
I, I, I'm not up on my stoning.
I mean, these days it means something different for me.
It's like I'm going to Illinois or Detroit or something.
But no, no, this, this is literally Republican Senator, St.
Shane, Jett.
Hey man, the Bible sages, corporal punishment.
How does this legislation conform with scripture?
Raider replied by quoting the Bible himself, leading to a lengthy religious argument on the floor of the Senate, according to the Oklahoma political observer, Tyler Talley.
Not all discipline needs to be one way, Raider said.
Special needs students need special discipline.
This says it won't be physical.
But Jett, again, this is the hard, hard, hard writing.
who has repeatedly made the argument in the past whenever the subject has come up for debate wasn't convinced.
He continued to call the bill a violation of scripture.
Accused it of singling out schools that allowed parental consent for corporal punishment and contained the measure and complained.
The measure was
Tasty, tasty bugs.
Let's see what else here.
A little bit more.
In the end, Judd's opposition was pushed aside and the bill passed the bill outlawing corporal punishment of special needs children.
Pass 31 to 16.
He's 16.
Damn.
Jet has a previously attracted attention for other peculiar policy positions.
He endorsed far right state superintendent Ryan Walters plan to put Trump indoors.
God bless a merit USA Bibles in the classroom and introduced legislation this year that would deregulate the production and sale of donkey milk without clarifying why he considered this.
Donkey milk.
Oklahoma, yo, what's happening down there?
Yo, okay.
So, I mean, but, okay, so here's, and this is what a religious argument on the debate on what's in scripture and what that means.
And to my position, it could mean whatever the hell you want it to me, because it's all about interpretation, right?
Two people can read the same fricking thing and come out with their own religious belief to justify whatever act they want to take.
You know what, Dom?
Come on, man.
And I appreciate that from a cultural perspective.
Sure, I get that.
But my problem with that is, what's the limiting factor?
You know, because it...
Can it be taught as mythology?
I mean, I remember taking like those kinds of classes.
I don't have a problem with that at all, right?
So if you're gonna lump it all in with
That kind of thing and as world
as worldly certainly and those are you know culturally people Can and should be away a well rounded individual should at least know that those things are out there I'm okay with that again It depends on the context if you're talking about world culture you're talking about history those kinds of things sure if you're talking about a matter of a practice of belief a belief structure that that
they are going to try to get you to conform to, then that's certainly a different, a different ask.
There will be no corporal punishment on this show.
Unless you ask nicely 8-5-5-7-5-CIVIC.
Oh, real quick, before we get to the colors.
This reminded me of a time when I was young.
And it wasn't for me specifically, although I had, oh, you know, you know, I was always kind of a sass and that'll happen.
Uh, but, you know, and I kind of got away with a lot of it.
So like, you know, it didn't discourage the behavior, but I was a young used to three.
And I recall as a child, so I was five years behind my sister, who was the first, obviously, to go attend the private school at Xavier.
And at that time, there were nuns, there were brothers, there were obviously priests, and they literally had like a dean of discipline.
This was a role that somebody had.
This was one, you know, keeping all the kids in line.
Well...
Apparently at one point, and you know, again, I was a child and this is a long time ago and I'm going off of memory here.
My sister, who was also a little like me as well.
My brother, I don't know where he came from, but my sister and I were the hell raisers.
My brother, much, much less so, although he did it in his own way.
She got into trouble when she was at school and the Dean of Discipline smacked her across the face.
Um, and I've always had the attitude, you know, my kids can be, if they're sass, that's fine.
You know, discipline them, put them in a corner to give them the time out, you know, that kind of thing.
Don't ever lay hands on my kid.
ever.
Don't lay hands on anybody.
Don't lay hands on me.
Don't
That's not okay.
I'll give a damn what the circumstances and what they said, what they do.
If, if, if, if for some reason my child attacked you and you defend yourself, I, I can understand that perhaps.
I mean, we all got the right to defend ourselves.
But as a matter of discipline in an academic setting to think that in some way, shape or form that hitting my kid would ever be okay.
That's just not the world that I live in.
And there would be some serious repercussions, as I'm sure there weren't.
To my understanding, nothing got physical when my father took exception to my sister getting literally slapped across the face at school.
To some degree, absolutely.
I think she did.
I think she enjoyed the experience.
I enjoyed the experience.
And by the time I got there, that position was eliminated.
There was no longer a dean of discipline.
And most of the brothers were on there.
Just a few nuns left.
You know, it was a little bit more, you know, teacher and academic-y versus religion.
Although obviously there were religion classes.
So that did not, to my...
interpretation and understanding really impact how she viewed the rest of her school career, let's call it.
But that was not acceptable and she certainly didn't appreciate that and my family certainly didn't appreciate that and so when you folks down in Oklahoma think that that's okay and that you think not only is corporal punishment okay, but corporal punishment with special needs children is okay Wow, maybe you should read that Bible you have eight five five seven five two four eight four two I thought there was something about love and effect and forgiveness in there
to the dom salvia show eight five five seven five two four eight four two eight five five seven five so we're gonna get to the lines the textures and youtubers guys are going nuts out there man appreciate
the passion.
Let's put it that way.
We
We grew up in the same time, but I went to Appleton public school and I remember my second grade teacher handcuffing my quote unquote out of control classmate to his desk.
I don't know that.
That's so I don't think that's okay.
That's okay.
Right.
Can't do that.
Right.
Can't do that?
No.
Okay.
I just want to make sure that's not okay.
We're not gonna do that.
We're not gonna do that.
You know, what about, you know, the ruler across the hand, right?
No.
If you're right with your left hand.
Right.
Oh, I can't do that.
Swack with the ruler.
It's the all-time motivation.
Well, think about this format.
This world with this, again, it kind of goes back to what is the point, right?
life liberty in the pursuit of happiness.
What is liberty if you can be assaulted at will because some ancient book says it's okay to do so or because perhaps a teacher thinks it's okay to do so or a cop thinks it's okay to do so.
You know what I'm saying?
Those are the things that go against your liberty.
with a child yeah beat beat the children beat the children of this and special needs children because you know special needs children these special needs discipline which apparently this guy wants it to be corporal punishment you think special needs child going to hell hell even a normal child let a non-special needs child is going to comprehend
that hey you did something so now you're gonna get beat what's the lesson there we're gonna teach
And therefore, why if that's the case then, if someone doesn't do what I want, I should be able- Then I do the same.
I can assault them.
Right, that is the lesson.
That's the lesson.
And that's where we're getting away from.
Listen, the history of the world, right, is written by the wealthy and the powerful and the oppression of the minorities and the minorities being whatever it means.
And as the atheists, we talk about religion sometimes on the show.
The majority religion often subjugates the minority religion.
Even historically speaking, happens now.
So when you're the minority in that, and it doesn't matter if you're a belief, if you're a minority belief, you think the majority belief gives a damn?
They don't, not historically speaking.
They certainly don't.
If you're an atheist, if you're one like me, man, not so long ago, you'd be murdered.
The church would kill you.
Thank you very much.
I took a shower today.
I'm not totally filthy.
I do get a little sweaty and, you know, my forehead greases up a bit when I get excited on this show.
Yeah, yeah, filthy heathen and what doesn't does not negate my right to exist on this earth.
I didn't ask I didn't ask to be here.
I don't know where I'm going when I'm dead.
So in the ground in the ground as far as I'm gonna go right back where it came from I don't know, but I do know at 53 years old They got a few miles on me that nobody else has a better beat on it than I do Certainly for me.
No, don't tell me you know for me You don't know for yourself because I've been around I read the books.
I know I got the miles You know, you got you got some insight.
Don't give me that and don't bring that trash to the classroom Don't bring that trash to government
That's not how it's supposed to be you got you at your faith.
You got your belief knock yourself out How much of that faith and belief?
Goes against the pursuit of life the life liberty and the pursuit of happiness if that's if you have a belief in that well And how how can you call yourself?
patriotic American?
Mmm kind of goes against that doesn't it 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 let's get some of the collars any from Watertown you are up welcome any what do you
got for us?
just like to do.
This whole thing is, is a bit traumatic when I think of what I put my son through by thinking I was doing a good thing by sending him to a community Lutheran school, which ended up, I mean, like he was bullied.
To begin with I mean not an easy child, but they did him know and it's like well That's what all the kids do to each other when I approached about bullying.
I was like, okay Yes, I like to make the comparison of I guess Democrats think people are smarter than they are and maybe Jesus thought we were smarter than we are a lot of stuff in the Bible Expects us to be smarter than we are like the eye of the needle is not a solely needle and
And also she, I mean, you didn't mention, I know if he mentioned why the, where the Bible says he can beat your kids, but if he's using the rod.
that.
Yeah.
They were, they were shepherd.
They were shepherd.
They didn't use the rod to beat the sheep.
They used the rod to guide
Well, guide him to do what we tell him to do, Annie.
Otherwise, he'd get an ass beating.
Thank you.
That is exactly the point she wasn't making down.
OK, OK, OK.
To guide them, not to beat them, not to do that.
Right.
There's a representative from the great state of Wisconsin.
His name is Shay Sortwell.
He is up in the Green Bay area.
And I remember this, Kat, because when we were down.
you know, protesting during COVID, putting up the Christmas tree right next to the Republicans.
They came over and stole our garland and got in trouble, got a ticket mailed to us.
And anyway, he was, I got in a little conversation with him.
Hey, you guys are out here doing COVID, singing your songs.
And what do you, what do you, I give him a dose.
Like, what'd you do last week?
And it came out in the news that he had apparently disciplined his children and had the similar assembly.
you know, you know, you know, you got the news and some charges were apparently never dropped or whatever the case.
Well, there was there was a news situation with that, and that was the spare the ride spoil the child defense.
If I recall correctly, you can Google it.
Come back was also folks end of the day.
Tell us something good.
8557524842.
Welcome back to the Dom salvia show eight by five seven five two four eight four two eight five five seven five seven bouncing all around here and I got lots of topics to get to I swear swear but I want to I want to just throw this out this corporal punishment issue we talked about these state legislatures in Oklahoma really
The beatings won't stop until morale improves.
I brought up a Wisconsin state rep Shay sort.
Well, he is currently, uh, in the Wisconsin legislature.
He's from the second assembly district.
And I remember this cat because, uh, we got a job on at each other a little bit when COVID was on and they closed the Capitol down and
a
And he said, his remark to me was this is for the Wisconsin, my constituents, because he was going to be singing songs.
But to that point, uh, and we talked about corporal punishment and I found my my resource my article here from the Green Bay Press Gazette and we'll move on the topic so I won't throw this out there.
So, so, you know, this isn't coming out of my mouth was constant legislator Shay sort.
Well was referred for felony child abuse in 2013 before elected was never charged.
Lawmaker said he used an object to punish his child as the Bible instructed.
He now sits on the assembly's criminal justice and public
Oh, let's see here.
Not a great look.
Uh-huh, uh-huh.
police investigation took place in january of 2013 before sortwell's elected the assembly but he was by uh he was then active in state and national politics served on the green bay city council police were made aware of the alleged abuse after a relative discovered five bruises while giving the child a bath relative took the child to a hospital in two rivers according to a 35 pages of documents obtained by the press gives that through an open records request with the green bay police department sortwell told police the bible was quote very specific about corporal punishment and loosely quoted a
from Proverbs, whoever spares the rod hates their child.
Now, of course, now a member of the assembly's criminal justice and public safety committee told police he and his wife disciplined the child with an object rather than their hands because hands are for loving.
And he said if they were not using corporal punishment, they were not loving their child because they're not teaching what needs to be taught, the police report said.
Sortwell explained to investigators that he or his wife typically struck the child twice, whenever the child was being defiant, then would hug the child and sometimes give the child a Rice Krispies treat.
After striking the child, now their parent made the practice of checking for injuries, the police report said.
Think about that for a minute.
After a four-day investigation involving four police officers, two social workers, a child forensics officer, a trained agent to interview child victims of physical and sexual abuse, a child advocacy member, and a nurse practitioner, police recommended a felony child abuse charge against SORTWELL and a felony charge of failure to act to prevent bodily harm against his wife.
Both charges carry a maximum penalty of six years in prison.
Now, the deputy DA, Dana Johnson, wrote in a September 15 letter to the Green Bay Police Department that he was unable to prove Sortwell's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and then he had to take into consideration, quote, the defense of parent using reasonable force to discipline the child.
Johnson also declined to charge Sortwell's wife.
Now, they avoided criminal prosecution while the Brown County Prosecutor's Office was finally charged against other defendants in similar cases around the same time, with all of those cases leading to convictions.
So put that one in, in, in the show notes.
Uh, yeah.
Uh, statement from sort role released by the police department blames the incident on a disgruntled family member.
Yeah.
Maybe people don't like it when you're beating the kid, you know, three days later still has marks
on their
body and, and the discipline hitting twice with an object and then giving a hug and then maybe a rice crispy treat.
Yeah.
Uh, public safety elected in Wisconsin state.
Yeah, the best of the best of the best, but you know the Bible So, you know, it's totally fine 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 mark from the sack you are up.
Welcome.
What do you got for us?
You just blew me out of the way with that with that one right there Oh,
maybe I forgot maybe I heard of one just kind of put it in my memory hole, but it's just just horror Yeah, that he gets away with it
Because he had connections and other people, you know, actually got convictions for that kind of, that kind of thing.
Again, getting back to the education thing, part of it, it makes me think of this whole thing for, you know, for the segregation of schools and all that links, links back to the whole and the anti-bellum self was actually illegal to teach, teach slaves and, you know, black people read.
And, you know, the whole secondary, you know, separate be equal.
The schools were never equal.
The schools still are not equal.
I mean, we have the money, resources available to make all our schools a hell of a lot better, and we should be doing that rather than funneling money off to the religious schools, which some of our founders would have vetoed that kind of legislation.
I mean, James Madison repeatedly vetoed bills when they were talking about providing funding for religious institutions.
I think I posted, I don't know where I posted the, actually posted some of his veto messages on that, that why he said it shouldn't be happening because he said it was a violation of the,
It
all of a
sudden another judge or a Supreme Court, someone comes in and rolls that thing over and upends what we would consider to be quote unquote normal.
And I think, you know, what's, what's, how do we interpret?
What's our, what's our baseline?
What is the baseline?
Again, it's gotta go back to our founding documents.
What is the point of our existence?
I mean, we all come from different places.
And I don't care what you say, none of us has to be here.
And I don't care what you say, none of y'all know where you're going when you close your eyes and take that last breath.
None of you.
I know you got, that's why they call it faith.
You're hoping, you're
hoping beyond
I know you're thinking that, but you don't know.
That's why they call it faith.
That's not knowledge.
It's faith.
And that's okay.
But what are our least common factors that bind us together?
Well, it is certainly our existence on this rock hurling through space, right?
Here we are all together.
Whether we like it or not, here we are.
And then what do we respect for individuals?
Do we have that sense of liberty, right?
Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness.
How, who's against that?
Who's against a person's right to live, to exist?
Is anybody?
Who's against a person having their liberty, exercising, their liberty, their freedoms?
Who is against that?
Who is against the pursuit of happiness?
Oh my God!
I've got a sadist, are you?
Who's against pursuing happiness?
These, this is, these are, are, are base most common factor, or least common factors that unite us all.
We all bleed red, you know, we all breathe oxygen.
We're all, we're all born, we're all going to die.
So how do we, how do we make this thing work?
And in recent times, yes, historically recent times, given the, the time of humankind on this earth, we've decided, Hey, this is, this is what's important to us.
This is what we reject in absolute monarchy.
We reject an absolute religion.
We do.
We reject those.
And
I mean, the authoritarian, I mean, if you, you know, the biggest sword, the biggest gun, the biggest person, you know, whatever the case was, you know, I mean, what was the, the Colt 45 was a great equalizer.
You know, little guys like me all of a sudden can defend yourself.
Um,
It is it that this is this is our least common factor and I think we when we when we talk about these very difficult Situations politically worldwide all these things I think it go put yourself in this in the position of how does this impact life liberty in the pursuit of happiness I Mean where else do we go if not to that because everyone's got different faith everyone's got different ideas
But do do we do we do you when you are out there and you're spousing your your your your mega ism Are you are you reflecting?
Life liberty in the pursuit of happiness are you trying to subjugate people to your ideas?
I'm an atheist.
I don't buy any of that stuff, but you know what I'm not doing.
I'm not trying to I'm not making you believe that That's up to you.
I'm not I'm not I'm not gay.
I'm not black.
I'm not trans
But everyone has the right to exist to do them for their life and their liberty and their pursuit of happiness.
Doesn't have to conform to whatever you were brought up in.
Expand your mind, man.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
If you are not pursuing those goals, if your politics, if your belief structure, if your culture does not embrace,
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, I question, then what is your motivation?
What are you doing?
To what point to what end?
To make people believe how you want to believe?
To force that upon people?
To subjugate people to your will?
Well that goes against everything that we have been trying to do in relatively recent history on this earth as we
hurl through space.
And the good news is I saw a headline that asteroid that had a 3% chance that apparently it's not going to happen now.
Maybe it's our way out, baby.
Finally, finally.
8-5-5, 7-5-2, 4-8, 4-2.
Put it in that context.
I mean, that's really what it comes down to, and I know you Megas, I know you Republicans.
I know, you gotta believe that.
You gotta believe that.
Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
How do you not?
Then go from there.
The freedom of religion.
Freedom from religion.
You know, pick your term.
You gotta write to it.
Knock yourself out.
But you don't have the right to force it on us.
You don't have to write to take text.
pay your dollars out of the till for your indoctrination.
You don't, you want to do that pay for it on your own, right?
Like everybody else did until this little concept came up until the blacks and the whites had to start going to school together.
Come on.
855-752-4842.
Let's go, Paul.
You are up.
Welcome, Paul.
What do you got for us today?
Hey, how are you doing down there?
Awesome.
I went to program school and I had one, uh, one teacher.
You better sit up straight in class.
And I, there was a paddle up there and, uh, yeah.
Nobody messed around in his class.
That was a program school.
And, uh, it didn't help me.
No doubt.
Oh, one quick thing.
If the Republicans mess with Medicaid, I know a little bit about it because they drive people around.
They'll be the last thing they'll do because even the jury manager districts are going to lose.
And I got two good things about Trump that I like about Trump today very quickly.
One, he wants to get rid of the penny.
I hate the penny down.
I hate it.
Man, a penny for your thoughts.
Man, what's wrong with the penny?
I hate them.
That's why you charge card.
And the other thing is he wants to.
Do away with turning the clock back.
That's another thing.
So I'm good with both I like
Uh, folks, this is Adam salvage show eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, eight, five, five, seven, five, seven.
We're going to come back.
Tell us something good.
We love something good.
We got a little toast from Harvey K to Thomas Paine.
And we're going to get to it.
We're going to start with that.
And the corporal punishment, Paulie didn't work for me either.
You know, I pairs tried that didn't work.
So why even bother eight, five, five, seven, five, six, civic.
Come back with us.
Something good coming up next.
We are running in the same race Ain't nobody winning We only here for a minute So everybody slow
Life is beautiful, especially when you join us and tell us something good to wrap the day up 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2 8 5 5 7 5.
So we got just PS on the board.
You folks are on the lines and on the Twitter line 8 5 5 7 5 2 4 8 4 2.
Let's see.
We got a couple here that just pointed out.
Thank you.
Just a Troy from Mount Horrib said enough with the religion bashing.
I'm going to music.
See you tomorrow.
And then Jennifer followed up directly after that.
Hi, Dom and Jess, something good?
Dom's spirited discussion of organized religion.
It was cathartic to just listen to.
We do welcome y'all.
And those of faith as well.
Listen, Troy, I think your religious privilege might be shining through.
I've said it over and over again.
It's up to you.
Knock yourself out.
You have your right.
I got my right.
A couple of things I don't want.
I don't want anybody, no matter what religion it is, to be trying to force that upon me or my children.
I certainly don't want us using our tax dollars in doing so.
Now that being said, you have the right to worship whatever the hell you want.
That's the whole point.
That's part of that.
Life liberty and pursuit of happiness part man.
And that's what you do.
Yeah.
And that's fine.
And I encourage that.
If that's what you're into, do it.
Knock yourself out, Troy.
Jess, whatever.
But here's the thing.
just don't use our tax dollars to do it.
You know what I'm saying?
And oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And don't use that to justify like, you know, beating people.
Right.
Right.
All right.
Harvey K, our pal, Harvey K, you know, he loves himself some Thomas Paine while he was down in Florida.
He'll be back next week.
He's filling in.
He's joining Jess here while I'm going to be in Florida.
We're going to miss Harvey by one day.
He's down with the Florida veterans for common sense.
Tom Paine's 280th, 88th, 288th birthday.
party and Harvey gave the toast and he has shared that with us and we want to share it with you because we love us some Harvey and we love us some Tom Payne.
So let's hear it, Jess.
In fact, I've been down here for quite a few days, fortunately escaping the worst of the weather in Wisconsin.
I'm here to deliver the toast tonight at the Thomas Payne party sponsored every year by Florida Veterans for Common Sense, a progressive veterans group
originally made up of World War II veterans all the way through to Iraq, Afghanistan veterans, mostly lead, was originally founded, in fact, by Vietnam-era veterans.
So tonight is the big night, and they expect usually a good crowd of 100 to 150 people, so it'll be all the more exciting.
Here's my toast for those of you who obviously are not down here and able to hear it directly.
In December 1776, during the darkest days of the revolution, Thomas Payne wrote the first of his American crisis papers.
Following devastating defeats by British forces in Brooklyn and Manhattan, George Washington and the Continental Army were retreating across New Jersey to the Delaware River and Pennsylvania.
Payne wrote with them, determined to continue the fight and defiantly reaffirming his disgust for Great Britain's King George III.
This is what he wrote, let them call me rebel.
I feel no concern from it, but I should suffer the misery of devils right to make a whore of my soul by swearing allegiance to one whose character is that of a soddish, stupid, stubborn, worthless, brutish man.
The greatest writer of the revolution knew how to call out the enemy.
Only 11 months earlier, Pain had published Common Sense, a pamphlet of just 50 pages that would turn the world upside down, calling on Americans to recognize that they were Americans, not
and that they were fighting not for British rights, but for human rights, pain through words such as, the sun never shined on a cause of greater worth, and, we have it in our power to begin the world over again, emboldened his fellow citizens to be, to turn their colonial rebellion into a revolutionary war, for not only independence, but also the making of a democratic republic.
Now, however, it seemed America's cause would collapse on the frozen fields of Tory-dominated New Jersey.
but encouraged by General Washington.
Himself, pain began to write again, and on a drumhead by campfire light, he penned words that would reinvigorate the struggle and resound through the generations.
These are the times that try men's souls.
The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will in this crisis shrink from the service of their country, but he that stands by it now deserves the love and thanks of men and women.
Tyranny like hell is not easily conquered, yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.
So here we are today, just 17 months away from the 250th anniversary of the United States of America, and now we face our own times that try men's and women's souls.
Sadly, we do not yet have our own Thomas Paine, but we do have his words to inspire and encourage us.
Indeed,
Let them call us rebels, for we are all the heirs of pain.
And in that spirit, let us raise our glasses and drink both to the greatest revolutionary of a revolutionary age, Thomas Paine, and to those who are neither summer soldiers nor sunshine patriots, the men and women of Florida veterans for common sense.
Hey, um, so yeah, I've been I made a new friend by walking around out in the woods and I was I was expecting to go and hang out with them after work a couple days ago Sorry, I'm talking quiet.
I have to whisper where she'll hear me but the new friend he he was expected to show up for one of the visits and
Instead, I fell into a trap that this older lady put set up and she ended up bringing me to her home.
And usually I would want to escape, but she's been making me some pretty good