Coming at ya. Who? Busted pencils. That's who fully-ledged education talk, educated educators,
talking education. Dr. Johnny Lupinaji Jacob chairman of the board. Me, Dr. Tim Slecker, we are here.
Yes, it is one of our favorites. I mean, we like recording all of the podcasts all week long,
home room, classes and session. Jacob chairman of the board, producers choice on Friday, but
Saturday always love recording the Saturday show. Yes, we record this as a show for all of the
civic media listeners that are out there. People you're driving right now. Yeah, it's 3 p.m.
on your clock somewhere unless you don't know how to set your clock. But, you know, we love that
you're listening right now. And yes, all of you downloaders who get it later in the afternoon,
later in the week, we appreciate it too. But the whole idea of coming a full hour to really,
you know, talk about things that matter. And, you know, sometimes, sometimes some people might go,
I don't know that that really mattered in my life, but Tim Johnny and Jacob surely seem to make it
seem like it should. And that's what we like to do. Sometimes this goes, I didn't know that this
is something I should be thinking about. Hey, that's what we're doing here. Education,
why does it matter to you? Well, not bulletin boards. We're talking about, we're talking about
issues, democracy, things your neighbor needs to be concerned about, things that maybe should be
that aren't. How can we address common mistakes or the way people continue sometimes to put forth
arguments that might seem, wow, that makes sense. But when you give it to Johnny Jacob and Tim,
all of a sudden, they have a way of pointing out that the world sometimes doesn't make sense when
it sounds like it makes sense. We definitely make things sound like they don't make sense a lot
on the show. It's a hallmark of our communication style. Okay, well then, breaking right into this,
lots of stories have been coming out, you know, 2025. Here we are into 2026. K-12 dive hits us up,
you know, right away, increasing rates of student loneliness present challenge for schools.
In other words, let me translate that title. Lonely kids make for pains in the butts when they're
in school because they're not paying attention. They're distracted. We're worried about them. Loneliness.
Man, actually that makes me think of when Sid Vicious left the sex pistols and did some solo work,
he had a song called Lonely Boy. Just bringing that up for FYI in case anybody wanted to know about
Sid Vicious on his solo career. Lonely. Johnny, all right, I'm going to put this out right there.
Why is it the school's job to worry and think about kids who are lonely, you know,
get, tell the kid to go outside and make some friends.
Well, yeah, I think Tim, you're being a little bit sarcastic here. And then also,
although you're touching on something of like we are in a culture right now where we are really,
you know, apt to find problems to then place schools responsible for solving it. And so there's
an element to that that you don't want to put a caveat here is like, oh boy, here's another thing
yet that we find as researchers is occurring in our culture, you know, an increased, you know,
rate of loneliness amongst both men and women or, you know, students identifying as male and female,
amidst other research that's recently picked up some momentum saying like we really have problems
as people identifying as men with connecting to community with building friendships. And so
like most things in our community and our democracy, Tim, I think you'd agree with me.
We take the stance that public schools are a place where we not only learn reading, writing,
and math and those kinds of things, we also learn to socialize with one another to, you know,
you know, to function in a group to feel part of, to feel like we're part of and to contribute to
a community. So on one hand, I'm with you, Tim, I'm like, oh, you know, yes, I see this problem occurring.
I'm glad that it's being researched and and that we're naming it and we're beginning to allocate
some attention and funding to it. But at the same time, it's like another thing like, well,
schools, that's your job. What are you doing wrong? That's creating all these lonely kids. And
and on the other hand, though, I think that's really important. Schools as an institution
are not benevolent in the things happening on our societies. I mean, we spend a lot of time in
schools as young people and they influence who we become, how we learn to relate to one another.
And so, you know, this piqued my interest, Tim, this week, not only because I'm, you know,
quite concerned about these reports coming out, especially about young men. I work with a lot of
young hockey players, those, you know, those groups. I have a lot of students, both male and female.
And I see this. And I think anecdotally, we've talked a lot about, you know, generationally,
there is a lot less socializing in person or freedom sort of time to be a kid together with
other kids in our schools and our communities and just in general. And so I hate to sound like
that old guy who blames technology because I'm not blaming it. But, you know, I think we,
we see there's a lot of isolation. Some of that, I don't want to say self-imposed, but like,
you know, in your family life and at home and then in school, you know, we're spending a pretty
large amount if you just kind of carve up the day into hours and minutes. We're spending an
overwhelming amount of time in isolation. Maybe it's connected to others through
some medium. Maybe it's through, you know, a chat or through some sort of group discussion. But,
but not people to people, right? And it's, you know, it's technologically mediated. And, you know,
it doesn't take, you know, a researcher, although we are researchers, not our area of research,
but doesn't take our peers who research this to kind of make this connection.
If you're spending a lot of time disconnected from people, even if there's some sort of connection,
like hey, we're also, we're playing this game together, right? It's going to change the sort of
fabric of our social community. It's going to change how often we relate to one another and
what our behaviors are like when we are together. So I'm pretty interested in this. Not to say,
like, hey, we got a band technology and everything, but I have seen over the years increased
surveillance in schools. What I mean by that is, you know, like security cameras and all kinds of
things that I get, they're important for safety and everything, but, but also kids need space to
be kids. They also need space to be trusted. They also, like, and we've, we've enclosed those
spaces to the point of sending a message of, hey, kids, we don't trust you when you're together
with one another. So there is a large sentiment around that. And I get it. The fear is real. I'm not
trying to, you know, erase that, like we're afraid for kids safety in most places. That's
increased. I disagree. I disagree. The fear is real. I, you use the word real. The fear
is a result of media statistically. The fear. We should throw you on Fox News, man.
No, I guess this is one of those things. But I mean, it's real. It's like school shootings are real
and clear of parents sending their kids to school. The number of incidents where we have technology
to kind of figure out and ensure safety. We believe that, like, if we have a camera on kids at all
time, then they're safe for. And I don't mess. I think like the, the fear to me, I think is real.
I want to validate it out there. There's increased number of parents for good reason. We're saying
it's scarier than ever to send your kids to school. Okay. I mean, on that, I will agree with you
on that issue, a sense of fear and that fear is real about sending your kids to school regarding
the potential of school shootings. Well, on that, we know more about bullying and we know that
the answer isn't like, don't pay attention. But what I'm saying, Tim, and this is like in the
event of responding to that fear that I think is valid and real has always been there. And
you think it's not real and it's media induced. We can disagree on that. But what I want to say is
in the, in the response, the underlying message I think young people get is that we don't trust
them together or that they're not safe if they're together without supervision. And so we have
less play. We have less kind of, you know, you got to test things out. How can you swim if you've
never been in the water? And so kids being together, playing without an adult there, they may make a
mistake. Right. We learn how to socialize together, how to make friends and parents and adults have
the back away. What's wrong with the virtual swim play date? I mean, there's
no, no, look, I, oh, man, all right. Before anybody goes, oh, my God, Tim's lot, right? I mean,
I've already lost it. So nothing new here. But I think part of the part of the issue here is that
we need to be what are the causes of loneliness? Because Johnny, I want to go back to what you
had pointed out. I mean, schools are quote, you know, identifying that more kids are reporting some
form of being lonely. Okay. And then, but I want, you know, the, the conundrum or whatever you want to
and yet there's something implied in that message that you said that therefore the rest of you
schools are aware, don't worry about it. It's one more problem. They'll fix. And I'm going to point
out though too that I think and you, I'm, I know you're not going to disagree with me. You're
going to ask to make more sense of it. But um, schooling itself has more and more and more,
particularly over the last 30 years has created the conditions that foster that that push loneliness
because we, we have the, the idea of, you know, mandated curriculum, you know, kids can't read.
There's a, the governor of Utah Cox Spencer now is out, you know, pushing the 50% of kids can't read.
You know, so schools and all of that, if you look at what has happened of what it means to be a child
in a classroom over the last 30 years, that opportunity for freedom to talk to, you know, catch a
cigarette in the boys room with everybody out. I mean, no, because the surveillance, all of that,
we have put kids under a control oppression. I think it's funny to think now that schools are
somehow going to be responsible for fixing something they themselves may have actually contributed to.
That's all I'm saying. It's busted pencils. Only let it. I'm sure Johnny's going to come back and
take me apart. Hold on. We'll see.
Thank God we're back. I'm sitting here all by myself. I'm just getting lonely. You know,
it's busted pencils though. You don't have to be lonely because you're listening to Tim
Johnny and Jacob. I thought you were going to say farmersonly.com.
Jacob? No, I try not to point out that I have a, I don't have a farming background. Never mind.
Johnny, the loneliness, a whole bunch of things. Jacob, farmers, what are the, I think though to,
you know, this is now coming up. It's a big issue. K-12 points out more and more kids in schools
are reporting or and teachers are seeing evidence that that kids are lonely.
Stayed up front. That's not good. Loneliness. If we're talking about truly like constantly,
let's say that actually sometimes loneliness, but they heard somebody point out that, you know,
sometimes having the opportunity to be bored, that's a good thing and that's not what we're talking
about here. Having time to sit and loneliness really is that sense of not feeling connected
part of something, an ability to reach out freely and ask for advice to feel connected to, you know,
whether, you know, if you're, you know, an incredible high school athletes like the three of us,
you know, you're on a sports team. Absolutely. Yeah, you know, if you were in the chorus and things
like that, you know, what is it that is loneliness? And that's what we're talking about, that feeling
of, and in fact, believing that you have no connections, that there are no places to create that.
And I'm saying, what are the causes of this? Because I'm worried that if it turns into schools,
you need to fix this. I think, well, the first part is is that well, then schools need to go back
to the 1970s when I was in school when somebody wasn't up my butt trying to make me sit in a corner,
try to memorize how to say my letters and how to say my words so that my test score would indicate
that my teacher is not horrible and that my school is not horrible. The hyper individualized
focus of school on academic proficiency, academic proficiency of the individual
has created that sense that school maybe isn't the place where a lot of those social connections
that maybe people, you know, back in the day or even, you know, say it's, it's not really set up
to create social connections. And so, you know, yeah, what are the causes of loneliness?
I believe that the hyper-focused education reform movement of the past 30 years is a contributor
to the loneliness factor, not the only one, because Johnny, I think, you know,
and we'll get into it, I think, because, you know, social media, AI, electronics,
parents who actually are not truly understanding the data about child safety,
all of that, I think, are contributing factors.
Johnny, or Jacob? Well, we didn't just didn't know whether you ended or what's going on
on that tip. You know, I agree with you about the hyper individualized part. And I want to just
put a, like, little clarification out there that for me, contribution isn't causation. So,
when you say what causes loneliness, right, and that school's cause loneliness, they can contribute
to it, but causation is, you know, a thing, like, you know, like, okay, why am I bleeding because,
like, I'm caught, like, I get what you're saying, I just want to clarify, like,
because you set it up that, like, you hope schools aren't responsible for fixing it, but,
but then you're saying they're responsible for causing it. So, it's sort of like this,
well, then what are you asking for? I just want to move away from the causation piece,
and I like what you think, contributing, and I'm absolutely right there locked step with you,
because I for years have called the standardization machine is isolating.
And that's the idea that, like, we are learning together in our culture often, but especially
in schools that are successes measured by this false notion of being an autonomous individual,
like that you show independence, that you are, your score matters, and everything is individualized.
And I think that there's some value to individuality. We can have, like, personalize, like,
I learn different than the kids sitting next to me, you know, and throughout the classroom,
I think that's not mixed that in. But when we're talking about individualism as a dominant sort of,
like mindset, we're thinking about that hyper individualized that, that truly your thought,
and that you learn, and that you experience being successful, only based on yourself.
Right. And so there has been, you know, Tim, you've noted decades of a standardization movement,
be a test, be a curriculum, and things that are hyper individualized, where your score is you.
Right? And so, you know, the methods around that, and then we have COVID, we have a lot of,
you know, like real disconnection and isolation experience broadly during COVID,
and young people are coming out of that, you know, that era. They're in that moment where
formative year is making friendships, you know, going through developmental stages together,
you know, didn't happen. And so we, like, I'm not shocked by these findings. But I do want to say
too, I think schools are uniquely positioned to address them and to support what kids need,
so that we don't grow into a, by and large, lonely culture.
Hmm. Wow. How about that, Johnny made sense of all the crap I was talking about.
Let's see what happens when we come back though.
Welcome back. You know, sponsored pencils fully-ledged education talk, educated educators talking
education, your solution to your loneliness crisis. That's what we are, Tim, Johnny, and Jacob.
You know, you guys didn't know that, Johnny. Okay.
Well, that's true too. I want to add on to that, Tim, because we're talking about some stuff that's,
you know, back and forth all over the place, but relates to all your lives out there listeners. So
more than just battling loneliness by being able to listen to us, you know, chop it up with
each other, because, you know, we're a bunch of knuckleheads here. What do we know? We know some
things, but we also give you things to take and talk about with your neighbors, with your friends,
say, and I listen to these guys. Oh, let me tell you. So that's where the magic happens when
you actually talk to another person. I would say this is like, this is a medium or mech mechanism
to get you out there and connect with people in your community, even if it's to, you know, tease us
a little bit because we're less lonely because of you. So I love that to Tim, though, come bring
us back to this because we were on something you were talking about. What schools can do? I was saying
schools sure can do more. Right. You were saying they're responsible. And I'm saying, I think you're
right. They are responsible, but with responsibility comes action. And so what should they do?
Well, you know, what should they do is is that first, break free, as you pointed out, Johnny,
of that hyper individualized success merit-based categorization, classifying, you know, moving
kids into into things because even that, right, you think about so early on then because of that
hyper individualized assessment of where are they? Who's not doing what? Kids automatically
understand how they are, quote, not like that kid, not like that kid, you know, you're not succeeding.
And so some of that, you know, I'm not going to say, but some of that hyper, you know,
categorization creates those boxes of loneliness that some kids feel. But if school really was
actually empowered to address this issue, and I believe this whole heartily, you ask teachers
and administrators to say, Hey, look, this is a problem. We need you guys to address this.
What do you need from us so that you could be successful in this? That's the part that never happens.
What do you need to be successful? Because instead, it will be one more thing to do under
and all these back for I guarantee you that teachers and administrators would first of all look
at the school day and go, well, then are we really free to redesign a school day? I bet they would
come up with all kinds of ways to create a situation in which not that it would, quote, fix loneliness,
but would encourage more connection. Yeah, regarding that hyper individualized sort of culture of
school, Tim, I think I want to clarify, it's important to have individual feedback. And I'm going
to go on a state, go make a bold statement here. Democracy is a team sport. Whoa, whoa, like
democracy is a team sport. And so less competition in the classroom as individual versus everybody.
And more, hey, together, how are we learning? How are we collectively engaged in our learning,
getting individual feedback as we go, just like in team sports, right? You know, I coach hockey,
so I'll break it down for hockey. I got to make sure that all my skaters are good skaters,
right? They get feedback on their skating, on their forward skating, backwards skating,
on their shooting, right? That my goal tenders get specific instruction about improving,
you know, their goal tending, the skills they have, individual feedback is really important,
but the collectiveness, they practice together. Sure, they get someone on one time here or there,
but they spend a lot of time together playing, practicing, working on skills together at the same
time, right? That's essentially to me a classroom. And that's also democracy. We need to be able to work
together in democracy. Democracy is a team sport. Even if you're on different teams in the democracy,
you ultimately are part of a country that one big nation working together. So when we say hyper
individualized, Tim, you talk about it and I'm right there with you. I wanted to clarify for listeners.
Also, I want to add that it's just thinking about the relationships in the classroom. More time
having to talk to one another, more time having to listen to one another, right?
More time, not just the teacher saying things to the student, but the students saying things to
each other. Also, more time just being themselves around one another. And when does that happen,
Johnny? Most of it. We'll get there. We'll get there. I'm ready. I'm going to start sending you a
detailed script saying follow it, bro. I'm checking the clock because I know what's coming and I
want to get out there, man. You know, guys, come on. We're big times serious radio professionals.
I think he's referring to the fact. No, he's got it. Like, I know, I lose track of things I get
lost in the moment. And Tim's referring to the fact that I'm here in Cal spell, Montana, right?
For outdoor game that we're having later on, that's probably why I'm talking about democracy,
being a team team sport. But no, Tim, also, that's what's getting to is in general. What can
schools do rather than think of this as a problem that needs to fix? Think about it as a result.
I think that's what you were saying earlier in the so a result of us forgetting how important it is
to just be around one another to learn together collectively. But also to have some
unstructured, it's not anything goes, but some unstructured time where we socialize with other
people around our age, a little bit up, a little bit down. Jacob, Tim, Tim, you were already asking
this. But one of my favorite parts of the day, even as a teacher, I'm here and I went to these
spaces. I went out to recess sometimes, just kind of hung out. I went out to lunch, I went to
the lunch room and just kind of, you know, buzzed through and gave some high fives and, you know,
usually grab that love nacho day. So I'd love to get some nachos in the cafeteria, but recess,
right? And we've seen it, folks. We've seen a concerted effort to increase time and seat
at a screen. Worst of all, like that's me being the old guy picking on the devices. Notice, I'm not
going after social media here. I'm not going after phones. I'm saying in general, before they were
even a matter of issue in schools, we were already tending towards more time in front of a screen,
less time interacting with our peers. And where would we pull that time from often? What people
would call extracurriculars and we call essentials or from the best part of the day on most days.
And I had to say that as a teacher recess and lunch.
Yeah, I'm thinking, you know, especially when they were going to serve Hamburg gravy,
one of my favorite school lunches, not. He didn't like it. I was a school lunch guy,
though. I love, I love school lunch, too. I did not bring my lunch very often, but on the,
on the ham, you know, Hamburg gravy day, I was just, oh, man,
Goulash. That's a big Goulash guy. I don't, I still to this day don't know what Goulash is,
but man, I love it. Okay, during the break, during the break, I'll give you a crash course on
on Goulash, but no recess in Jacob. So I wonder, though, too, Johnny, what you were saying, you know,
schools are like, I can hear somebody going, well, schools still have recess,
but actually here's where as a researcher, okay, how long did you have for research recess?
And what is the average recess today? And there's actually, it's pretty frightening. The amount
of time available for recess and lunch has dramatically decreased, right? Especially if you're a
talker like me, man, imagine, I couldn't, I can't, I could not eat lunch in the period of time,
kids are given to eat lunch these days. Thank goodness. I can't teach you so. So I got to have A,
B, and C lunch, right? But the idea is like, you're supposed to like wolf down your food,
get right back to you, you know, you're learning. And this is just like lunch was a time to eat,
talk to your friends, you know, because maybe you were talking about a video game during a lesson
and teach us, hey, save it for a lunch, you know, like, like they encouraged us to talk to one
another, planning a toga party. But they gave us, I mean, we didn't even know what those were when I
was in school, Tim. That's, yeah, that's actually one of my, I kept looking for togas when I went to
college and I didn't see any togas. But then recess, you played and you, you know, you got to
socialize and, you know, you had some games and you had some bad recesses and some good recess,
but it was life and you learned and you grew through those experiences.
Hard question though, for both of you, when did you stop having recess Jacob?
I think recess as such probably ended in elementary school, but I think we had sort of an outdoor
gym period quite often throughout middle school, which kind of, it wasn't quite the same thing,
but there was, you know, okay, we'll do an activity for 20 minutes and then also there's 30
minutes of do whatever physical thing you want and run around and play football, that sort of thing.
Yeah. Okay. So there's a little bit, but at some point, you know, there is no recess.
It goes away. And actually, think about what you just said, Jacob, the second part of what you
said, unstructured time, truly devoting and some people are like recess, my God, you know,
that's what we did in second grade. I don't, we're not actually, let's redefine. Okay, recess
for little kids, if that's what you need to, for your brain to understand, how about though?
Yeah, guess what? 15 year olds having part of their day, an unstructured, not an organized
kickball or sport, but to just be, yeah, hang out, you know, and I know people are like, oh my
God, you let kids, you know, let them have a moment and they'll, no, actually, they need a moment,
they need more than a moment of unstructured. And so, you know, you want to help figure out a
contributing factor to decreasing loneliness. This is a low cost maneuver, increase unstructured
time, K 12 all the way through, increase intentional unstructured time, you know, and you think
about that. And it's just like, what would be the benefits? Well, you know, there are lots of
benefits, but you're like, well, what about the, I got all these things. But Johnny, you know, man,
we didn't, gosh, we're going so quickly here, but I do want to bring this up because I think it's
something we want to get into deeper, maybe two in the future. But, you know, the impact of loneliness,
we said, you, you kind of went back and said, you know, hey, actually, you know, females, girls,
and boys, you know, they, they, they just experience it differently. And maybe it's not as, you
know, what lopsided, but what is, I think lopsided and that we need to point out is the resulting
behaviors that come from loneliness when we look at gender, boy, I mean, boys and the self-destructive
behaviors that come from loneliness, that is something that we need to really put a lot of
effort and intention to understand what is it that is driving young men, young boys,
to actually make really, really horrible decisions. And sometimes even God forbid, the most horrible
decision any individual can ever make, and is there something we can be doing about that?
It's loneliness. We'll be right back.
I believe that music has the potential for related education talk, educated educators,
talking education, talking loneliness, oh my goodness, so many different ways we can talk more
about this, lots going on. But Jacob, you were saying during the break that there is actually a resource
or civic media, give me more, man. You are absolutely right, Tim, because just this past week,
we had a great article from civic media's own Terry Barr talking about an ongoing effort here
in the state of Wisconsin, spearheaded by say yes to recess Wisconsin. She sat down. She spoke
with Shannon Y. Saki about that effort. The proposed legislation here in Wisconsin could change
the recess mandate in Wisconsin to 60 minutes of daily recess for students in kindergarten through
sixth grade. It would also formally define what recess actually means, according to Shannon. She
said it calls for making the whole thing a very much more successful thing with unstructured play,
just like you guys were hitting on classes are structured all day long. She says play gives kids
the space to be creative, to socialize and reset. And that's how learning actually happens.
So that kind of got me thinking about this whole topic where I brought it to you guys.
Pretty interesting stuff going on here. Wow. Look at that. That's exciting. So say yes to recess
with consent. What a great effort. Again, Tim, you were saying we were talking about what can
schools do? Hey, more unstructured time. It isn't wasted time. It's in fact, we know this,
the research on learning where kids process the learning play activity is where kids put that
learning stuff into long term memory. It's where they like where it gets actualized. You know,
it's where where the silver turns to gold. I mean, how many different cliches do I got to
pull through it? Let them play. Let the kids play. Let them play. Let's say yes to recess. Let
them play. Well, it's a say yes to recess and get it. Let them play. But again, simplicity,
right? You know, there are things that we can do. And we know that lack of unstructured time
together is one of the contributing factors to loneliness. Some of the other things so that,
you know, we've talked about we're not going to have nearly, well, we don't have enough time at
all. But you know what? And I support this wholeheartedly, the amount of schools and districts and
states that are saying, hey, cell phones, they're banned during the school day. And people are like,
oh, what about my kid has an emergency? It's okay. Guess what? You can call the school and they'll
get in touch with you the way they always did. But right now when they're in school,
kids don't need access to the loneliness device because it is loneliness device. And I only just
touched on this. But, you know, Scott Galloway, prof G podcast, really, you know, a great new book
out right now. We'll put the link to this, you know, with men. But really looks at truly social
media as that comes through the phone. The algorithms are engineered, engineered to create isolation
and loneliness. Well, then, you know what? Waiting for big, you know, Facebook, social media and
stuff to fix that problem, they ain't going to do it. And so guess what? It requires us to step in
and do things. So, you know what? Yes to recess, no to phones. How about that, guys?
Yes to recess, no to phones. Or just finding the balance between them. Like, I agree with you,
Tim, less time on the phone, less time of the screen, more time with your peers, right? And
more unstructured time. It's not anything goes. It's not dangerous time, right? It also sends a
message, hey, kids, you have a job to do and part of your job is playing because to learn,
you have to be able to play and like spend some time enjoying the day together, right? So,
those are quick, not quick fixes, but, you know, small changes that make a huge difference.
Yeah. And that, man, if you can get behind it, you know, I'll certainly be looking more into it.
Jacob, thank you for bringing it to bus depensals. But, you know, say yes to recess movement in
Wisconsin. And we'll do some work to look at what's happening nationally because while we're
taking away recess time, we should be adding it. And that's a great example of, you know, unstructured
time that goes a long way to the learning, you know, and I also want to come back around and
the recaptum to, you know, if we can't work together, then how can we expect communities to thrive?
We're also learning in schools to be a community together to be a neighbor.
You talk about neighbors all the time, Tim. Where do we practice?
Neighborly activity like asking, hey, how are you doing? Or I noticed you're not, you don't,
you don't seem to be feeling so well today. We have a little conversation about it. Or maybe
your sports team didn't do so good the other night in their football playoff game, right? That
happens, right, Tim? That happens sometimes. Or maybe on the flip side, your sports team had a
remarkable game, right, Jacob? So, you know, it's a big week for everybody. It's good times.
Hey, listener, thank you for tuning in, catching the Busta Pencil's podcast and broadcast with us.
And man, especially go talk to some neighbors, go talk to some people, how you fight loneliness,
have a conversation with somebody, crack a smile, give a high five, you know, throw the arms around,
give the brotherly hug. And with that, Tim, I think we have something we do every week.
Yeah, we don't text our neighbors. Now it's time for your moment of sin.
To be hopeful in bad times is based on the fact that human history is not only of cruelty,
but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness.
Thanks for listening to the Busta Pencil's broadcast today. And remember to grab great podcasts,
chocked bull with more fully-ledged education talk on Apple podcasts, Spotify, and of course,
on the civic media website. Hey, and don't be late for home room on Monday and make sure you
catch next week's class and session on Wednesday and find us on Friday for producers choice.
And of course, just like today, you can catch the Busta Pencil's broadcast at 3 p.m. central time
every Saturday across all the civic media network stations for that one hour of your favorite
blue-collar scholars, Tim and Johnny, and keep Busta Pencil's.