This is it.
Welcome to MTV Music Television,
the world's first 24-hour stereo video music channel.
Just moments ago, all of the VJs
and the crew here at MTV collectively
hit our executive producer, Su Steinberg,
over the head with a bottle of champagne and behold.
A new concept is born.
The best of TV combined with the best of radio.
Now starting right now, you'll never look at music
the same way again.
The best of TV.
The best of TV.
The best of TV.
The best of TV.
The best of TV.
Truth.
Busted pencils.
Fully.
Letted education talk.
Educated educators talking.
Talking.
Talking.
You know, education.
Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,
Jacob Chairman of the board,
Slecker Class,
is in session.
Jacob, nice intro right there.
And I'm just thinking about that.
Nothing could be more true,
because,
MTV Music Television,
that was incredibly groundbreaking
when they put that out there.
The idea that you could watch music
on TV.
Well, if that was amazing,
but now there's MTV breaking new ground
or breaking my heart,
or that would be,
Elton John and Kiki D.
Don't go break in my heart.
I wouldn't ever try.
Okay.
Back onto that.
That didn't make videos,
because I was in the 70s.
But,
MTV Music Television,
the news out there is that,
they're not going to do music videos anymore.
I know Johnny's going to come in
and give the facts and how this works out.
But,
Johnny, I'm,
I'm,
I'm,
I'm saddened by this,
this groundbreaking innovation of MTV
to do away with music videos.
It seems to me that,
music videos,
music videos.
It seems to me that,
they're taking,
they're cute from public education reform
that also kind of decided that,
music,
who needs music
when you got to learn to read and do math?
We can do away with music.
Johnny,
so I'm like,
wait a minute,
simple question.
If music in public schools
and should MTV be doing away with music videos?
I feel like this is a crazy,
weird,
like music television doesn't do music.
Elementary school doesn't do music.
This feels like this is a beginning of a dystopian.
Oh my god,
I can't wait to wake me up,
Johnny Lupinagy.
Well, Tim, I think
I like how you relate the two things.
I think this,
this class and session spawns from,
you know,
the news stories and the rumors that,
you know, MTV was not going to be
anything any longer after the new year.
And there's always some truth to these reports
that, you know,
it's confirmed that,
MTV or music television
has decided to, you know,
go completely non music programming.
And, you know,
to kind of,
and it has for a lot of listeners,
and you're probably saying,
this isn't new.
This seems to have been,
you know, a big shift that's been going on for quite some time,
more reality,
television shows and less music, less music, less music.
And so we're seeing it go away, Tim.
As you also say,
you know, at the same time,
there is a kind of debate going on,
or at least a, you know,
a funding cut
to the music education programs
and many of our schools.
And the two are,
you know, interestingly,
I think you're right,
kind of related into this moment where we're like,
resisting, you know,
a renaissance identity in our youth.
Like it should all just be,
you know, math reading,
math reading tests,
and, you know,
and less of that extra stuff
that you hear at Bust of Pences,
we're always saying,
is this central curricular things,
like our music,
our art programs,
our theater programs,
you know, our athletics programs,
all of the things that often get labeled as extra curriculars,
but our essentials.
I like the kind of connection you're making, Tim,
asking,
is it a kin,
you know, music,
television network,
saying, well, we're going to not do music videos.
But, you know, to me,
continually, you know,
MTV symbolized, like,
for better and maybe for worse,
at times,
youth cultures, man,
it was like a huge,
I kind of call them public pedagogies,
right, like not the official curriculum
of what we're learning in school,
but what young people are engaging in outside of school,
and it was, you know,
a vehicle for bringing diverse cultures
into all of our living rooms,
you know, a common experience,
shared not only seeing music videos,
but MTV news, Tim,
over the years, right,
as a young person, you know,
when Kirk Loader would come on
and announce something,
big moments of remembering,
huge news stories breaking through,
music television,
MTV as a young person,
you know, I was not necessarily watching CNN
or MSNBC.
These things were, you know,
fledgling if they even existed.
They weren't on my early year radar,
and we didn't have YouTube,
and we didn't have TikTok.
We had MTV.
It's where you learned about fashion trends.
So I said, for better, for worse,
we could be listening to this and say,
you know, MTV was a way to, you know,
corporatize or colonial youth,
youth consciousness,
all these kinds of things.
There was a hidden curriculum to that.
That's that public pedagogy aspect.
There was also Tim,
I want to say, like, really
something special that happened.
And I guess we could do since the class in session.
Right? I know we opened
with a little bit about MTV,
and we've made jokes about it.
But 1981, August 1st,
MTV opened with
video-killed-the-radio-star
by the Buggles.
Right? And, you know,
now here we are talking about,
you know, I guess streaming killed the video-star, you know,
TikTok is the new MTV.
I mean, Tim, we're officially old
when we're having this conversation.
But I want to say this, you know,
this is not a new argument.
It's like youth,
you, whatever is engaging the youth,
always gets a bad rap.
Right? Like, like MTV,
you know, it was always,
I remember, you know,
in the early 80s,
parent meetings being held,
not to let your kids watch MTV.
They were going to turn it into punk rockers.
There was even a PBS documentary special.
That, you know, your kids,
if they listened to heavy metal
or punk rock,
they were going to end up, you know,
turning into devil worshipping, you know,
vandals out in the community.
And the future of America
was looking bleak
because TV was rotting their brains.
Oh, Johnny, I mean, all of these, you know,
revolting energies.
Just in case, though,
this is what, you know,
I had my first taste of a bat heads,
because Aussie,
Osborne,
my hero at the time,
was fighting heads off of bats.
And because I knew that,
and because I was such a,
you know,
an unhinged,
very influenced youth,
I was like, well,
I can do that too, you know.
And so maybe people were,
right to be worried.
This is a nonsense story.
Yeah, think about it.
You ate a bat.
Is that what I'm getting from this tale
or your spin?
I just, if you remember that,
I mean, this was the things.
It was like, oh my god.
Like Johnny was saying, it was like,
OMG, Aussie, Osborne,
heavy metal,
Satan worshipping,
and, and to verify it,
it was like a head off of bat.
How much more evidence do you need?
That the youth are in trouble.
You know, and let's get him banned.
And then Johnny,
all of the,
makes me think those two,
the other part was the move then to say,
you can't say that on,
on a radio station,
or you can't put that in the song,
and then if people are going to,
you know, these rockers
and these rappers,
if they're going to put out, you know,
songs that have swear words in them,
we have to make that stop.
Thank you,
Tipper Gore.
PMRC.
Well, and you,
and you have conversations around music
and the importance that it played
in the overlap with culture,
consumerism, youth cultures.
And I think Tim, you know,
we got to see, you know,
I think we could categorize.
We could be categorized
ourselves. Now we're dating ourselves
as part of the MTV generation.
So, and I remember,
especially becoming a teacher,
you know, at an era where MTV
was still very prominent.
And, you know, might have been shows
like Total Request Live,
and that was, you know,
had something that had replaced
the rap and control,
and the game show,
remote control.
There was a lot of things,
and we saw the birth of reality TV
really spark, you know,
not only through network
television with survivor
and things like that, but also with,
yeah, Tim, you nailed it, the real world.
And the MTV generation, man,
just thinking about it's characterized,
you know, by our ability to process
information quickly.
I'm going to ask at the end of this
characterization of the MTV generation,
if this sounds familiar to some
of the ways we're talking about you today
and their TikToks and all their YouTube
and stuff that they do.
But the MTV generation was
criticized and characterized
as having this ability to process
information almost too quickly,
as having shorter attention spans,
lower literacy rates than previous
generations,
and just outright unruly
and inspired to be rebellious
by these, you know, artists and rock stars
who are pushing gender boundaries,
you know, and sharing their
experiences from different
neighborhoods that look different
than ours where we grew up.
Or they looked like your neighborhood
and you were recognized from maybe
some of the real ways you were living
in your community, right?
We were characterized as not
hesitating, right?
To show empathy or apathy
and teachers,
and teachers would complain
that these youngsters have
media-saturated brains
and that if we're going to connect to them,
we're going to have to
require new approaches.
Tim and that's
something full circle
that brought us together, man,
because media often got blamed
and especially music and pop culture
right? This is not new.
We do it today when we talk about AI,
we talk about YouTube
and TikToks and all the things
that kids do today.
It's mimetic of the same way
as young people we were categorized.
But Tim, man,
I just want to ask you
do you remember what brought you
and I together on Busted Pencils?
Dude,
absolutely, okay?
You know, quick history lesson,
you know,
can kind of came together.
Shout out to Randy Hawk
out there, you know,
helped us
put this and bring this together.
And it was Randy Hawk, you know,
who in 1985 in
in shape or hall in our dome dorm rooms
started jamming to the sex pistols
and punk rock.
And that became such an influence.
And in fact, you know,
we framed Busted Pencils
and as I was scanning for
for topics,
boom, punk rock education,
Johnny Lupinacci,
Drew Camp, what?
A Zine? What?
These guys are professors?
What?
I got to get them on Busted Pencils
and dude, I reached out.
I got you on Busted Pencils.
We recorded.
We recorded.
And we never released that show
to go to the music.
It was.
And it's.
And it's.
And, and that thing's out there.
And the, but Johnny, it was the music.
As you said, you know,
it was seeing that.
And, and making that connection
because I was like.
The best thing too that, like,
for you, for what I saw from you
and Drew too, was.
I was like, you guys.
And I was like, Oh, man, I have to get these guys on my show.
Because it's like, this is what I always wanted.
Busted pencils.
The music drives the ideal.
I hate to even say the word ideology.
But it,
it's behind.
Everything that has always been about.
Busted pencils and.
And I was like, Oh, man, I got to get these guys on my show.
Everything that has always been about Busted pencils.
What's just.
And yes, it's a punk rock alternative ethos that says, you know what?
We're going to push.
We're going to ask questions.
We're going to challenge.
We're going to sometimes look at things and go, Oh, WTF.
Let's put on the brakes.
Hey, you're not going to put on the brakes.
Fine.
Then we're going to put on the brakes for you.
Yeah.
What is it about punk rock?
What is it about, you know, progressive music?
What is it about, you know, angry, heavy metal?
What is it about that, quote, non commercial music that actually sits
continually under continuously underground, but still creates and drives an
audience.
It's because those are the artists that are saying things.
And I always saw that as teachers are also when empowered and doing the
work of teaching, they're also those alternative artists that are out
there setting the world on fire.
And so that was the connection.
So, you know, yeah, to see MTV.
Yeah, as you're right.
Let's be honest, MTV.
I think you had to sign up for like MTV five.
If you wanted to watch anything about music anymore at that point.
So they move.
But.
You know, so essentialism though of music and education.
This is why I think this is a great classes in session.
Well, yeah, Tim, I think so too.
And I mean, one of the things that birthed this and I got to give credit out to
where credits do, you know, it was the way that we learned about what was going on in music.
I mean, other than going to concerts, going to, you know, places like record shops
and things like that and having conversations, you know, about what, what were the trends?
What were the back stories?
What's the, as the kids call it today, the lore, right?
What is the meaning behind these songs and the movement here?
And there were interviews with artists and there was, you know, where we grew up with artists.
You know, we went from fighting for our right to party with the Beastie boys and, you know,
all of that kind of stuff to, to, you know, hearing about, you know, gender equity.
And like these guys were talking about, you know, free Tibet and all kinds of different ways
of addressing, you know, social justice issues in their music.
You know, when I think back at watching UMTV wraps and seeing public enemy, you know,
talking about, you know, fight the power and all the different things.
And, you know, the news coverage lined up with the music to the sentiment of, you know,
the way that we came to age in the late 80s, early 90s.
You know, I'm proud to say I'm part of the MTV generation.
But Tim, it's really like this retrospective, you know, the, whether it's rumor or shift
and, you know, whatever the news had line came out when we started talking about, did you hear?
The MTV was no longer doing music videos.
You know, first reaction, we said, that's not new.
They've been moving away for that for years.
But Tim, you brought up the question, where does it go?
Because it doesn't go away.
I don't want to talk about this in some nostalgic way to say like artists today,
just aren't influencing culture.
We still have like the Kendrick Lamar is right and all the people who are writing,
speaking truth to power with their music and inspiring young people, you know,
to think about the world, the Taylor Swift's, right?
All the different artists who have engaged massive amounts of young people
in thinking about telling their stories or having a shared experience or, you know,
just all the different ways that they identify, learn and communicate.
But Tim, I wonder, you know, you're a big AI guy.
Like, I'm thinking about this.
If we think about the MTV times, right?
MTV was, yes, very commercial in terms of like it got to decide,
there were humans who were deciding, you know, who became big
and who was going to have their video released on certain day and certain time
and, you know, what kind of styles and fashions would be marketed.
And there was a whole like consumer pushed to MTV,
but it was human control, right?
There were human gatekeepers or, you know, people who opened doors.
And now Tim, it hasn't gone away.
It's moved right to places where fans click, recommend and repost.
The land of likes is what I can call it, right?
Because I'm an old time in the land of likes, but it still exists, right?
I can go and like look up any music artist or I can get and, you know, down a channel
of all kinds of videos, interviews, live performance feeds, you know, all kinds of things.
So I'm wondering, you know, I'm reflecting here, you know, is it better?
Or is it different now that it's an algorithm curating our choices?
Or, you know, was it the human gatekeepers or people who opened doors for artists in the past?
You know, I think both you brought the concept in ideology, right?
An ideology is a system of shared beliefs, right?
So, you know, I'm wondering algorithms are humans,
but both have ideological implications for how we learn Tim.
I'm thinking about this. What do you think?
These kids better off than us or worse off?
Or it's just the same old thing, new technologies?
No, you know what?
And I hope this isn't something to say. Of course, he said that he's old.
I do think kids are actually worse off.
And when I say that, I feel like I'm not just feeling it.
We're starting to really gather evidence that is showing that
kids are not getting the social experiences that they should be.
And yes, some of that was, you know, some of the things that you,
as you say, Johnny, the human experiences that we had,
maybe some of them weren't great, but they were still with other people.
So the point now when you say we have algorithms that are literally
put together to really keep people isolated and trapped within
that algorithmic back and forth of, you know,
you don't need to go anywhere. You don't need to see people.
You don't need to call. It's all right here.
That algorithm is tuned in or created to keep kids isolated.
And that, let's acknowledge that.
That isn't an anti-technology statement on my part.
That's a reality check on what the technology has been programmed
and set in motion to do, which means it can be programmed and
set in motion to do other things.
But, you know, and so how do we get people?
I feel like though there's, there is kind of like a natural
where I feel like an upheaval of people saying,
wait a minute, enough's enough.
I like, I got to do something different.
And it kind of made me think about like,
actually don't, there are still records shops out there.
They're struggling, but they're out there.
I mean, I remember when you, when you and I finally first met for
the first time person to person in Madison, Wisconsin,
I took you to those, those record stores, right?
And, and the reason I knew those record stores were theirs
because my daughter got into this thing where, you know,
they wanted to go and see that.
And, and you made me think about going, it was just like,
you know, in the 80s, yeah, mall culture, whatever it was
commercial, but man, going to the mall, going to national
record, Mark, and hanging out and cruising the albums,
you know, and, and checking out the artwork on the albums.
And then hopefully finding one of the double albums that had,
you know, pictures, maybe you weren't, you shouldn't have seen,
but somebody had broke the seal on one of those double albums
and you could open it up and go, whoa, oh, look at that, man.
You know, it was, yeah, that you, human, that physical,
that tangible,
they're,
we are losing something by that going away.
We can gain it back because actually this programmed,
and in fact, forced isolationism, enforced isolationism,
in fact, algorithmically controlled isolationism,
it doesn't have to be that way.
And boy, that's a long way away from music, but, you know,
at this point too, how do you rage against the machine?
Jacob wants to publish zines and rage against machines.
You know, this is the time.
Maybe the music is to call back and so, like,
like, let's remember back to what we're doing in class and session.
Music is essential.
It's not an extra curricular.
It is fully one of, you know,
one of the things that probably is the most distinctive about being.
A human, a person, music, the way it comes through the soul
that comes out and touches other people.
You know, now, can we create music in different ways?
Yes, we can.
And I'm not going there at this point.
But, you know, MTV, I get it.
I know what you're doing.
We understand.
But man, there is something there that just touched me to go,
Johnny, man, this reminds me of why and how we got together.
And this reminds me of just something we have been saying for the longest time.
Art, music, all those things, you know, like you said,
theater, debate team, what people called extra.
Those were never supposed to be extra.
They were always supposed to be essential.
And so maybe the class in session today is really just a reminder about saying,
those essentials, they're still out there.
And they are now fully needing to be brought back.
Because those essentials are those human connections that can,
you know what, if I'm going to be isolated on my phone,
if I've got to go and have a music class,
an art class, a theater class,
man, these can be places where we can get back and doing,
you know, the essential work of what it means to live together in harmony
or sometimes not in harmony,
but to live together with people, people to people,
busted pencils, you know, that's what we do.
I'm kind of, that's where I'm at, Johnny,
on this classes in session.
And here's the thing.
No final based on today, man, no final.
You get it.
This was it, man.
We delivered.
You do not have to have a final on, on, on this class today, Johnny.
Oh, nice. It's off the books.
It's just a fun one.
A reminiscent a little bit.
But Tim, I come back around to you in my reflection here and you share
what brought us together and reminded us about,
you know, the essential curriculum pieces that music and culture
brings to a strong education, especially when we're talking about youth,
you know, and you talked about record stores and, you know,
most certainly listener, if you're not hip to it, records are cool.
They're in, you know, so our tapes making a comeback.
And this current generation post COVID has shown us a lot that said,
hey, just because we don't have MTV, you MTV generation educators out there,
just because we don't have videos, right, newsletters that come in the mail
and magazines that we go buy to find out, you know, who's hot and who's coming out.
We still have our channels of consuming media, right,
and that they've shown us they like to buy albums.
They like to listen to albums.
They like to even with streaming services still have that artwork you talked about.
And most important to me is, you know, we've seen it, young people,
of all ages, we just know this about our human cultures.
They like to go to shows because that's kind of where the magic all happens, right?
And without that Tim, this was, you know, the birth of why we even start talking about,
like hip hop pedagogies, punk rock pedagogies, you know, youth cultures and music
and the overlap there, because a lot of us in that MTV generation
learned so much of what we were taught then in graduate school or in college
about sociology, about polysci, about economics.
Earlier in our life, by going to the shows where artists were the teachers,
where they were sharing different information about the political positions,
whether it was rage against machine or the Beastie boys, or then later, you know,
political bands like maybe you went to see Radiohead and asked yourself,
wow, what does this album mean? Hail the thief, right?
What is this about? What's going on with all these lyrics and different movements in music?
And you asked questions and those questions were often discussed, talked about,
and answered at shows, right? So, you know, I'm excited.
I'm in that space of, hey, give the youth credit where credits do
to have a different way of getting that information.
Am I sad and nostalgic about MTV? Yeah, for a while I've been.
But at the same time, I'm stoked when kids share a TikTok with me,
or they're following an artist, or they're following someone who is talking about that artist,
and there certainly is no lack of conversation learning and, you know,
pushing boundaries on how we treat one another and what we're all about through music.
So, these young people, they're on to something.
It looks different than how we got it, right?
But Tim, we also remember our parents saying, wow, we don't have radio that much anymore.
And, you know, radio show hosts don't seem to be the big voices anymore.
It's these BJs. And now it's more the algorithms and the influencers.
So, to me, you know, same story, different day, new technologies,
but still same hungry youth out there sharing and expressing themselves,
you know, through their cultural affinities.
Love that there are still lots of music, lots of shows,
and great creative projects and inspire and young people to learn
and to share what they learn with others.
So, Tim, man, fun having this topic.
I'm so glad you brought it to today's class in session.
And with that, Tim, I think it's time for a moment of zin.
When I say history is a matter of life and death, I mean this.
If you really don't know history, you are a victim of whatever the authorities tell you.
You have no way of checking up on them.
You have no way of deciding whether if there is any truth and what they are saying.
Hey, thanks for listening to Busted Pencil's class in session.
And you could always grab great podcasts like this one.
Just search Busted Pencils on Apple Podcasts, Spotify.
And of course, you can always find us on civic media website.
Hey, don't forget to find us throughout the week every Monday, Wednesday,
and Friday with home rooms on Monday.
Class in session on Wednesdays.
And always loads of fun on Fridays to wrap up the work week with Jacob's producer's choice.
And listen up, pencil busters.
You can always catch busted pencils at three p.m. Central time across all the civic media network station.
For one hour of your favorite blue collar scholars, Tim and Johnny.
Hey, keep it up.
I want my mtv.
I want my mtv.
Call your cable company and say I want my mtv.
I want my mtv.
I want my mtv.
Call your cable company and say I want my mtv.
I want my mtv.
I want my mtv.