Transcript

Gobbling Up the Department of Education

Busted Pencils · Sat Nov 29, 2025

Oh, like a punch in the face or a surprise explosion.

It's busted pencils fully, let it education talk,

educated educators, talking education, teachers,

teaching teachers about teaching, you name it,

all kinds of things, or the new one out there that I,

here's getting a lot of, you know, attention, but busted pencils,

democracy's digital asset, Johnny Lupinacci,

debuted on the John and Gordy show.

Hey, nice. Yeah, I know out there. So, you know,

we are democracy's digital asset. And I was like, okay,

we can roll with that. I like that. I can kind of mess around the lot and

have a, you know, because we said, you know, guess what?

It's public education, whether it's public K-12, public higher education, education,

the bedrock, the foundation of American democracy.

And so, considering that, then it makes total sense

to be talking about busted pencils as democracy's digital asset.

What makes a digital, Johnny? Well, guess what?

Podcasting. You can get us as a podcast.

You can get us on the radio show. You name it. You can get, you know, Jacob,

thinking about that, right? I mean, digital asset.

What do you think of when you hear that?

Well, the first thing I think of when I hear the words digital asset is,

well, frankly, busted pencils, Tim. It comes right at me.

Johnny, Johnny, better than Bitcoin. Here we are.

Democracy's digital asset, busted pencils. I love that better than Bitcoin.

No, that's what I think of, you know, anytime, you know, I'm an old guy.

Anytime I hear about digital something, I, you know, it always makes me think of like,

it's an AI conversation right now. It's some kind of, but really, Tim, it is, you know,

the way it is the future. It is currently, you know, how we get together and, you know,

talk shop, talk about education, talk about all things related to education.

And as you said, education, and you said of American democracy, most certainly of American

democracy, but I would even add of all democracies, yeah, all types, even back to the Greeks,

right? Education being a bedrock, right?

A learning society, you know, your civic duty being built on some common understanding,

whether that's literacy, or all of the many things that constitute our great curriculum

right now, or that are debated about all the way to the federal level currently.

Not always happy about the discussion happening nationally about, you know, curriculum and things,

but nonetheless, education is part of democratic citizenship, investing in public education.

That's not just your dollars. I read a tax dollars do that, but it's also our interest, our time,

our brain energy, right? Time spent thinking about, time spent talking about, time spent volunteering

forward, you know, or putting our hands to work in education. These are all important ways of

expressing your civic duty in a democracy. And as I've said many times before, you know, we find

ourselves in a precarious moment as a democracy. And so these conversations, these discussions,

these podcasts, these digital assets, right, are all part of that civic duty, democracy and action

here are busted pencils. Thanks listeners for joining us on this fine Saturday broadcast.

Tim and Jacob, how are you both doing after, you know, Thanksgiving, good, like good Black Friday

shop. And I know you guys were both out in line early yesterday. But give us some rundown. How was

your holiday? Well, you know, Johnny, on Black Friday, I almost had one of those TVs. I was looking

at it right now. And you know, was it like 900 inches, I think it's and you can get at that TV

now for like, you know, like 200 bucks or something. The problem was is I need a whole new wall in

my house to hold the damn thing up. And I don't have the money for for for home remodeling to

to take the size of these new big screen TVs. So now I look, I joke, Johnny, I'm being sarcastic.

There's not a 900 inch TV yet that I have. You know, Jacob, you look amazed by that.

Yes, Tim. I am deeply amazed that you do not yet have a 900 inch TV. This is America, Tim.

All right. We're all out here. We're working for the weekend so that we have enough money

to risk our lives in a very tense trip to Walmart. And I think if that's not America,

then I don't know what is. Well, you know what they say? They say go big or go home. Well, Tim,

it's after black frights, go big at home. Go back with the 900 inch television.

No, I mean, it's just, you know, most people out there listening, we didn't have school Thursday

or Friday. Some some districts probably had Wednesday off. So it's a holiday week. Hopefully

found things to be grateful for. You got to spend time around friends, family, loved ones. That's

always, always a joy. You know, the old social studies teacher and me Tim, like take a walk back

to home memory lane, like there was different ways we learned about Thanksgiving and then that we

learned to teach about Thanksgiving. Tim, what was one of your favorite things as a teacher

or that you worked with teachers more recently? Because Tim and I both teach teachers and the

in our recent histories, I still do. Tim is now one of our administrative leaders in higher education.

But Tim, you can remember both being a teacher and teaching teachers. Thanks giving. One of the

important holidays to learn to teach about. What's one of your favorite, you know, classroom

stories about the holiday? Um, classroom story or fun teaching. For me, it was, I actually had

like an idea because I was really, you know, early on in my teaching career, 90, 91, 92.

You know, Thanksgiving was still, and remember, I was an elementary teacher. So, you know,

I taught second grade, taught fifth grade. And in elementary schools, actually Thanksgiving

is one of the few times, believe it or not, and most people could remember this,

that actual some form of what we tried to call history would actually permeate the entire school.

And that's Thanksgiving, right? The Thanksgiving stories, the pilgrims, the pilgrims landing at

Plymouth Rock. It was a big rock. It cracked their ship open. They came out of the ship. They were

wearing really big gold belt buckles on their shoes and their belts and their hats and when

they got out, too, there were these, you know, very friendly Indians at the time who were there

waiting and greeting them as they came off the Mayflower and really showed them how to survive in

the new world. And on that first Thursday of their trip, they had their first Thanksgiving dinner

around a, probably like a 900 inch picnic table. And there was turkey and cranberry sauce and

and the Native Americans, the Indians and the pilgrims were all hanging out. And I was just like

coming as a social studies educator with the background. I was like, I think I need to blow up this

story. And so for me, I'd spent a lot of time actually trying to bring some sense of historical

accuracy to the mythology of the Thanksgiving, what do you want to say fantasy that actually

elementary schools probably historically had done the most kind of you would say historically

inaccurate damage. And actually, I really liked having Thanksgiving come around. And then

when I was a teacher of teachers teaching future elementary school teachers, man, we got into it

about like, so what are you guys going to teach when you get out there and you see somebody putting

a teepee and a totem pole up next to a Thanksgiving table? You know, so I got to say that's my

favorite part of the teaching realm around Thanksgiving, Johnny Jacob. Yeah, I love it, Tim.

I love it. That's the Q Jacob go. There was no talk about Squanto in that entire story.

You did not name drop the Wampanoag Indians Native Americans. I'm just offended, Tim.

Where's my Thanksgiving stuff that I remember from my boyhood? You can't give me facts and information.

I want my comforting American myths. Yeah, you know, I mean, think about it. The first

canned cranberry sauce was in 1619. Who knew? They found they cracked it open on Plymouth Rock

to get that can open that. I mean, next year and tell me Lucy didn't really pull the football away

from Charlie Brown. Yeah, well, but you know what? One of my one of my favorite lessons that I

thought the future teachers was is that we did we did a research project actually around the idea.

If if there would have been a quote Thanksgiving celebration, what food would have been there

in Plymouth, Massachusetts in November at that time? And that was actually a really cool

interesting lesson because you know, yeah, potentially turkeys and stuff like that, but you know,

it was more of a hunter gatherer assortment of what was available. And the big thing, lots of

seafood, lots of seafood. Really? Yeah, well, because think about where they were, right?

The idea that Thanksgiving is essentially seafoodless makes no historical sense.

That shocked me to hear from you, Tim, but now that you mentioned it, I mean, it does make a lot

of sense. Where's the clam chowda? Where's all your wonderful New England coastal food? It really

you would think that they would be part of it. Yeah, you know, so there it was. And then again,

you know, what were the the native food sources available, not native American food sources,

but native food sources? And so that's kind of how you have to put together of what might

they have eaten at that first Thanksgiving? And what a great opportunity to give students there that

for me, those were future teachers, but for them then also to go back into their classrooms and

kind of say, okay, hey, we're going to celebrate Thanksgiving in this classroom. But kids, let's do

a research project on what do you think the pilgrims really ate at Thanksgiving? So there's my

memories, Johnny Lupinachi. Hey, I love it, Tim. I love how you both talked about even in joking,

you know, it's it's real. I like that you talked about good teaching includes multiple perspectives,

right? And so, you know, teaching to hold space both for, you know, a holiday, a national holiday,

where we express thanks and gratitude with also, you know, a tinge of, hey, there's something that

we should teach here about colonialism and, you know, the perspective of native people. And

also hold space for it to be a day of mourning as well, right? Like there were great struggles and

great effects that, you know, colonialism brought that weren't so celebratory, but to hold space

both for being grateful and thankful and for honoring a day of mourning, you know, I think those

are important. Teaching with multiple perspectives, stay right here with us and tune back in because

we're coming right back at you with more. You know, Thanksgiving talk and we'll probably talk about

this country's future, the U.S. Department of Education when we come back.

The theme music as, you know, the Mayflower was pulling in the Plymouth Rock. You could hear that

in the back. Man, yeah, happy Saturday and got to pull it out there too. This is small business

Saturday, Johnny, because Black Friday, you know, but small business Saturday. And actually,

you know, I got to say I hate the commercialism that Thanksgiving in that sense has been turned into

in Christmas, but if there is something truly important, then, you know, it's supporting local

small businesses out there. Take the time right now Saturday. If you're out, especially if you're

out driving right now, listen into the show. Hey, you see a local coffee shop right there? I guarantee

you that's going to be some good coffee pullover, small business Saturday, grab something, talk about,

hey, you know what, I was listening to Busted Pencils on whatever station you are if you're in Hayward,

you know, if you're in Madison, just let them know that Busted Pencils Civic Media said, I should stop

in and support my local business on local business Saturday. So, love that. And, hey, I forgot

one thing before we get into it though. Another historical activity I did with my with students on

Thanksgiving, research the first proclamation of Thanksgiving. Oh, I have a question about that, Tim.

Yeah. Like, tell us a little bit about that history of Thanksgiving because I kind of understand it

in two different stories. And I'm always wondering, like, I knew it became a national holiday at some point,

much later. Oh, much later. But, but are you like, give us the background? Just a little history less than

Tim on. I mean, so you got to look at for the first proclamation of, of Thanksgiving. Yeah, the national

holiday. No, no, no, man, we're talking many years, but it's around the 1630s in the, what we

call the New England colonies. And there's a proclamation out there. You can find this primary source

document. And yeah, you know, it's an interesting because the first few lines proclaim thanks

for the dismantling, dismembering and the displacing of those Native Americans that were not

real cool at helping the, you know, the pilgrims appeared in and all those people. So I always

thought that that was a kind of an interesting juxtaposition was to take a look at that primary

source document proclamation. And again, I'm trying to remember it, but I'm pretty sure it was in

the 1630s. Again, thinking about, you know, about 20, almost 20 years after 1619 in Plymouth. But

the first recorded documentation in the, what we call the New World was thanks for getting rid of

Native Americans. And so that's an interesting document to put up next to the classic image that

typically hangs in elementary school classrooms. Again, of that festive community gathering of

pilgrims with their hats and Native Americans with their headdresses all celebrating each other around

a big picnic table. And then becoming a national holiday. Okay. And then put this in the

in the chat. Like, when did it become the Thanksgiving? We know about him.

Well, you know, so the national holiday. So Abe Lincoln has, yes, a part to do with it.

George Washington actually issues a Thanksgiving proclamation to in the 1700s that doesn't take on

any national validity. That's a good attraction. Doesn't get any traction.

Abe Lincoln in Civil War gets lots of letters from one of the, I can't remember the woman's name

to set up a national day of Thanksgiving. But yeah, really though, national holiday, 1941.

And to make things even more interesting, why did, why is it on the Thursday that we now

celebrate it? Largely, it is now on the Thursday, was it the third or whatever you get it

at the insistence of, and this is why we get Black Friday, largely at the insistence of most

retailers to give it more time between Thanksgiving and Christmas for people to go shop

thing. And so, I thought we'd say that we're in for the end of the show. All right.

Now you're giving me the history of America sucks. Come on. We're talking about here.

Well, and then that was under FDR, right? Jacob put that in the chat earlier, you know,

becomes a national holiday under FDR, 1941. And I think they were probably thinking, hey,

let's, let's make this the Thursday, right? The fourth Thursday of November.

And they're probably with some economic interest in that as well,

help grow that the wonderful spirit of Christmas being, you know, being overrun by consumerism.

The Black was too, so that they could actually the businesses could, quote, put their spread

sheets in the Black, move from the red to the Black. That's your Black Friday.

Yeah, Tim. And I think you were talking about letter writing and campaign to Lincoln,

you know, the Smithsonian. I looked it up while we were kind of chatting about things. Sarah Hale,

you know, Sarah Hale's 36 year campaign finally took some traction with Abraham Lincoln

to consider Thanksgiving a holiday, you know, and the president Abraham Lincoln issued that

proclamation later to be put into, you know, the format we know it now by FDR. These are great

things, Tim, on our post Thanksgiving Saturday broadcast, pencil busters. If you're like, come on,

get to the content. I teased it last break. US Department of Education. I don't know, folks.

Are we thankful? Are we grateful? I don't know. I'm not too thankful for Linda McMahon's

most recent stuff. We'll talk about it when we come back.

Welcome back. I'm Busted Pensals fully-ledged education. We'll talk about it when we come back.

Welcome back. I'm Busted Pensals fully-ledged education. I'm Busted Pensals. I'm a

Busted Pensals. Welcome back. I'm Busted Pensals fully-ledged education talk. Educated educators

talking Thanksgiving history. If you didn't know, well, now you do. There's a whole lot of

didn't, you know, in the whole first half of the show. Thank you, Johnny. Thank you, Jacob.

Hey, if you want to fact-check us, send us a note. You want to dispute the history of Thanksgiving

according to Busted Pensals. I'd love to hear from you. Sure. We bring you on the show and talk

a little bit about that because, you know what, discourse, civil discourse, one of the foundational

attributes of living in a democracy. So we want to practice that. But, Johnny, man, we've been

teasing it. The story, the Department of Education, the DOE, down there in DC, you know, since Ronald

Reagan, it has been attempted to be dismantled. And it looks like President Trump finally found

the right person to take it apart. And, you know, kind of makes sense. Given the background of

Linda McMahon, you know, top ropes, elbows to the head, breaking chairs across people's backs,

herself even regaining consciousness after being dropped in a, in a, in a pile driver. Yeah,

she is the dismantler in chief because the Department of Education, man, they're making good

on it, Johnny, because as of this week now, the office, and these are offices that were

in and part of the Department of Education, elementary and secondary education, moving to the

Department of Labor, the office of post-secondary education, institution-based grants to the

Labor Department, Indian education programs to the U.S. Department of Interior, on campus child

care support for parents enrolled in college to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services,

foreign medical accreditation, HHS, international education and foreign language studies programs to

the U.S. Department of State. That's where we're at so far. So all of those now are being relocated. And

Mike, my first though looking at this in Linda McMahon, put an op-ed U.S.A. today, I think that

the week before, but now we're here. They keep touting that the biggest reason to do this

is because of the inefficiencies that were so just insurmountable in a Department of Education.

And I'm kind of confused as to how we made that better by distributing the some of these services

to now be housed in just other big bureaucratic departments of federal bureaucracy.

Why does moving a piece of bureaucracy to another piece of bureaucracy make it less bureaucratic?

Help me out here, Johnny Jacob. Well, Tim, first of all, I just want to say you're missing a

key component of this. They're not just moving it from one bureaucracy to another bureaucracy.

They're moving it from one bureaucracy to another that does not specialize in any of these

things, nor do they know anything about it. And that's why, frankly, it's going to work just fantastic.

Johnny, I'm still stuck Tim on remembering WrestleMania 17 when Linda McMahon came out of that

catatonic state to kick her husband in the bean bag and cost of the big win. I believe he was

wrestling his son, the good Vince McMahon. I'm stuck on WrestleMania history. No, but all jokes aside,

Tim, this has been, you know, a week after week of, like you said, like more information. It's like

we're in a wait and see. And we're active in that wait and see what happens state. But, you know,

this is, this is a full dismantling of the US Department of Education as promised.

So it's not like we're shocked or surprised, although I'll admit I was like, yeah, I'll believe it

when I see it. Like most of the stuff that comes out of this administration's mouth, I'm kind of

like, really, can we really do that? And can we really do that? Doesn't seem to matter much

unprecedented moves. But Tim, you know, I keep hearing, you know, hold on, this is going to make

things more efficient. This is going to cut red tape. This is going to clear up bureaucracy.

And man, if there's one thing I can relate to is being frustrated by bureaucracy. So it sounds good

to me, but pencil busters, the less in here. Well, it sounds good. Is it actually good? And

is this, you know, dismantling of the US Department of Ed going to, you know, streamline things as

promised or, or is it, as it appears, it's going to do, you know, make things even more confusing.

Because I have a degree, you know, an educational policy and then federal programs that's like,

we've studied this, Tim, it's our job to know what's going on. And I'm the first to admit, honestly,

I'm pretty perplexed on how this is going to work. I'm even more perplexed at how these moves,

right? As we dismantle the US Department of Education, I shouldn't even say we as a few

in our democracy work pretty high up, you know, while democracy is on life support support,

the dismantle, you know, the better off of this democracy, it's education system. But,

you know, moving it around, I, in my head, I have the visual image of playing that game where there's

a, there's like, you know, a coin or an object. Maybe it's like a peanut or an M&M under three cups.

And, and they shuffle the cups around and you have to kind of keep your eye on where it is.

You know, imagine about 40 cups, you know, and five different objects. And they're all being

shuffled around, but they don't land back in the Department of Ed. So I can't see how this

streamlines anything. Although, sounds good to me. Hey, let's cut the red tape. Let's, you know,

get rid of bureaucracy and let's be more direct about our education. And if we're serious about

that, direct about our democracy. But Tim, this just seems to be really nonsensical moves.

Let me add to that, you know, again, for even more efficiencies. Yeah.

All of those moves will still be overseen by the about to be dismantled education department.

So, so, so, so the, the bureaucracy that got taken apart and moved to other bureaucracies

will still be bureaucratically controlled by a, in the state of current dismantling the

education department. Tim, I got a question for you then because let's just bring this down to

ground level, right? If we're just a couple of guys chopping it up, maybe talking about Thanksgiving,

what we ate for Thanksgiving, having a couple of beers outside in the garage, you know, I'm going

to ask you Tim, do you think just if we simplify this, is this just, you know, the US Department of

Education or the federal government saying, let's make this so bad that public education just

really doesn't make sense. And then the alternative, the opportunity to to thrive, but that being

private education models, you know, for profit charters and education companies can say, hey,

this is a total mess. Send your kid here. We've got to figure it out. It's all close here. We've

got a good, you know, operating system. We've got good local governance in terms of, you know,

we have CEOs of this company. And are we, does it make sense that maybe this is a move to just say

public education? It doesn't work so good. Look, it's totally confusing. It's underfunded. It's

all over the place. There's not even a department for it. It's surely all over the place now. Yeah,

right. So let's just, that's, I mean, on the ground level, it seems like, okay, you know,

maybe the intention is to make it worse. So let's take the further away. Let's take the baseball

team of nine players and put them all somewhere else and then still ask them to play the game of

baseball. Basically, and then say, look at how awful they are this game. And then they say, well,

there's this other product over here, this other league or this other, you know, opportunity to play

ball. And they've got to figure it out. And really, they don't have it figured out. It's just less

of a mess than, you know, the public system seems to be going towards. I mean, I hate to speak that

way. You know, me, I'm always the optimist. But when I, when I, you know, get down to brass

tax with this, I'm just like, wow, if it's not to make things more efficient, because this

certainly can't be, is it to say it's more efficient, but then just move further away from its

primary responsibility and that being, you know, to ensure quality education and access to that

quality education for all children in this country. And instead of just coming out and saying

that directly, it's like, you know, kind of when like I neglect mowing the lawn of my backyard,

and then I turn it into, you know, a big wild food forest. That's what I call it. You know,

I'm letting the grass grow and reseed. You know, really, it's just my yard's a mess.

And I may have intentionally done that to get rid of the responsibility of cutting the lawn all

the time. So it's a real major league situation where the owner is going to lose as many games as

possible. Yeah. Yeah. Because she doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore. And she's working

against like that. Yeah, setting itself up to fail. And who doesn't fail, you know, Tim,

ultimately, it fails children across this country. I hate to sound like such, I mean, put my

tin foil cap on right now of this cooking conspiracy that, you know, these moves are to, you know,

hurt public education intentionally. But I don't know, Tim, I might even be able to, the more

they keep announcing things, I could take the tin foil cap off and say, see, see, look at it. I

think, you know, I mean, here, there's two, two ways to make sense of what you think you might

be potentially seeing. You know, so the move to dismantle the Department of Education is coming

from an administration and largely from one political party. So going back to Reagan,

you know, Republicans have philosophically not agreed with a strong federal government, right?

And that these decisions would be better handled at the local level and that anytime the federal

government gets involved, there's some form of overreach and then the overreach becomes inefficient.

And so philosophically, let's let the people closest to where the decisions are made. And anybody

listening to our show is going like, well, that sounds like something you guys have been in favor of

a lot of times that the people most affected by decisions should have a larger, if not almost

exclusive, say, and how the things go. And so that is what is being sold as why they're doing it.

Going back to that base Republican philosophy. And I'm not judging that philosophy and just

pointing it out as the fact that a strong federal presence actually undermines the independence

and the efficiencies and actually better decision making that should result at the local level.

But the question is are coming up. Is that really or is it more what Johnny saying, which is

intentional dismantling a public education to make room for something else? What is that?

Something else? Johnny gave us the hint. We'll see if we have enough time when we get back to

maybe keep this going though. We probably won't answer it. We'll be back.

Yeah, you know what that was. Oh, they let it education talk educated educated talking education

Saturday after Thanksgiving that small business Saturday again reminder you're out there.

Support those local small businesses. Hey, you know, you really want to support democracy over

this incredibly mass consumer driven. Well, you know what, put your dollars to use, put them back

in your local economies, support those local small businesses. And don't support another

WrestleMania, whatever with Linda McMahon, because after this stint of taking apart the Department

of Education, I think she's going to need a long break. So we don't want to. How do you think you are?

There we go. Thanks Vince. Always need you around like that. Okay, so answer Johnny's premise.

Is this all really just a dismantling to actually just actually do away with public education as

the foundational education system in this country. And you know, creating a lot of chaos and pain.

So that's most people would go, my God, we need something different. Um, Johnny, the answer,

which I said, there weren't going to be any. The answer, according to Dr. Tim Slecker is why yes,

you happen to be correct, my friend. This has always been the intention from this push anywhere,

whether it's, and I said all the way back to, um, you know, Reagan and a nation at risk

to bushes, no child left behind to Obama's race to the top. All of these have set up such a chaotic

situation that the, the sense is, my God, this schooling in America isn't working. And we need

something different. We need something new. And largely right now, what we see that new is,

is what we call choice. And actually the funding for education being directed back mostly to,

to parents. And that parents can take that funding. And Johnny, if they want to put it back in

a public school, that's their choice. If they want to put it in a charter school, if they want to

put it into a private micro school with three of their neighbors, that's their decision because

Johnny, at the extreme end of that philosophy, we know that parents always are the most informed

and best people to make long term decisions about the education of other people's children.

It's all across the land. There's no need to argue. Parents just don't understand.

I was waiting for that one. You teed that one up nicely, Tim. So I agree with you. I'm glad I

can take my 10 foil cap off. It's left over from Thanksgiving anyways. But Tim, thank you for,

you know, clarifying that because, you know, I agree with you. Jokes aside today, you know,

this effort, you know, to streamline to make things more efficient is, you know,

it's gaslighting us from the real, you know, real action here. And it's taking a massive step back,

even away from, you know, supporting children in this country. And so who suffers, you know,

it's a question that I always ask when we're analyzing any policy, you know, before we name it good

or bad is, you know, who's benefiting and who's suffering? And is this, you know, supporting

our democracy or is it undermining it? That's the key. You know, to intentionally take something

that our democracy not only depends on, but is a signifying characteristic of a strong democracy,

that being a strong public education system around the world, you know, all throughout history.

When you think about democracy, you can't think about it without a strong public education system.

And so when any government or any administration in the government, you know, is, is making

decisions and taking action to step away from responsibly providing an education to all

children in that country, you know, one, it's anti-democratic and two, there's got to be a reason.

And I think Tim, that's the reason, right? To make way for growing, you know, limitless,

you know, deregulated private education system in this country. And so Tim, you hit the

nail on the head. Sometimes those are charter schools. I'll just put the disclaimer out there,

too, not all charter schools operate that way. But it's, you know, it's a move away from education

being a characteristic and responsibility of the government to being, you know, it's part of,

if you can afford it and you're so lucky as to be close to a good option or good options,

congratulations. If not, like most of working America, they are in the, if not, category.

Good luck out there because you're on your own. And I'm tired. I know I'm tired of being on my own

in a democracy. And if you listener out there are also tired, you know, support your local public

schools, support your local businesses, exercise your civic duty, democracy and action.

You do you have a conversation with your neighbor, you and your neighbor go support a local

business and talk about schools on that note, Tim. Okay. You know, now it's time for your moment of

sin. I have no right to despair. I insist on hope.

Hey, thanks for listening to Busted Pencil's broadcast today. And remember to grab great

podcast, chocked full of more fully-ledded education talk on Apple podcasts, Spotify. And of

course, on the civic media website. Hey, and don't be late for a special, special home room on

Monday and make sure you can catch next week's class and session on Wednesday and find us on Friday

for producer's choice. And just like today, every week, you can catch Busted Pencils at 3 pm

central time across all the civic media and network stations for one hour of your favorite blue

colors, colors, Dim and Johnny. Hey, keep Busted Pencils.