Welcome to Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk, educated educators talk in education.
Dr. Johnny Lupinacci here on this fine Monday drop home, room. Let's start the week off.
Fresh Jacob how are you doing, man? That's the Jacques, their Johnny Liu Pinacci.
June, June, June, June, June, June, June, June, June.
It's both of us today, Johnny, we're rocking it here on a home room. I'm excited for this
one. It's been a long week, finally getting back in the saddle, we can talk some education
and some educated educators who talk it. I'm excited, Johnny.
Yeah, definitely. And you know, we're in the middle of November, just a little past that,
it's, you know, for teachers. It's a pretty exciting time because from the beginning of the school
year, and for most educators out there, I mean, we're still on that like, like, old schedule of,
like, you know, taking summers off, not like off, but not having students in the summer.
And then, you know, we're on that really, you know, agrarian calendar that still carries over
from back in the day when, you know, kids were needed for helping out on the harvest and the farming.
And they couldn't go back to school until that was done. But you know, today we still kind of
practice some of those remnants of the old, of the old world. And, and kids started school generally
in August, some in the beginning of September. And things are pretty busy, Jacob, September,
October are packed with a ton of curriculum, a lot of teaching. And it's usually, you know,
one of the first benchmarks of a school year is that Thanksgiving break. It's the first kind of
big break that comes up before, you know, the holiday break over December. And then there's
usually a midwinter or winter break and a spring break. You know, most of the school years
chopped up with some benchmarks that give teachers a breather to come up for air. So educated educators
out there, you know, listening, you're almost there. You're almost at Thanksgiving and that,
that's a big marker for those of us in the marathon that is a school year. So we're coming up on
that Jacob exciting times. But, you know, it's another week. It's a new day, Monday here. And
a lot's been happening in education. So I thought we'd chop some things up Jacob today. And then
one thing stood out to me this weekend when I was kind of reading, you know, what's happening in
the world of education. There was a report that had come out a couple weeks ago, but it's gaining
some traction about teenagers in the US. And so we'll get to that. But lots of things happen.
Last week, Jacob was American Education Week. Can you believe it? The 11th through the 18th
was Education Week. And the theme was together for safe, just and equitable schools. And this
is something named by the National Education Association, the NEA. It's a big one, you know,
it's like a big union that we all are part of. You know, teachers, we do this together,
communally, collaboratively. Sure. The NEA marked last week as American Education Week.
And in order to, you know, acknowledge and celebrate professionals like teachers out there,
the leaders, the pair of educators, the bus drivers, the librarians, the custodial staff that
helps keep our classrooms and schools clean, the crossing guards that often volunteer their time
to make sure kids are safe out of school. The recess, you know, monitors, the lunch staff,
everybody in schools, American Education Week were coming off that, hey, we thank you for everything
you do to make things possible. You know, firm believers here are bus depensals that every kid,
right, doesn't just deserve, but should have, right, a quality education. Now, unfortunately,
we talk about all the time that that's not necessarily the case for every kid and gives us all
plenty of hard work to do all the time. But in the meantime, let's celebrate all those folks putting
in that hard work, right? Public education at its best is something very special.
And when something special, it's worth working hard for. So even though celebration week was last
week, it's never the wrong time to thank somebody contributing to public education for their
important service. So American Education Week last week, Jacob. Johnny, if I could say, I know it was
last week was public education week, but maybe it's controversial to say this, Johnny, but to me,
I think all year we should be thankful to our public educators.
Well, that's why I was thinking about it and bringing it up. I was like, oh, no doubt. Okay,
cool. Another great opportunity on bus depensals to just say a collective thank you out there
to everyone. And if you're a listener to make it a goal this week to just go a little bit out of your
way to say thank you to one of those folks who are working to make public education better. And
and that's, you know, that's for all the way from principals, teachers, you know, school board
members to everybody, everybody involved. It's just big time. I mean, last week we talked about coaches.
They're another big one. I don't get me started. Jacob, this will turn into a whole show about the
teacher coach connection. All right. We talked about that this week and weekend, but we'll probably
come back to it soon enough. But Jacob, let's get right into some of the fun, man. This article
in Ed Week really stood out to me, you know, sorry, not Ed Week education week. There's two big
news sources with very similar names out there. So this one's education week. And and it talks about
teens in our country. 84% of teens, Jacob, distrust the news. Wow, right? And experts are saying
this could have disasters, you know, no coincidence. Anytime we're talking about teens, usually the
experts are saying disaster or something to fear. But this could have disaster consequences
for school, for education, for our future democracy. I do kind of agree with this, but let's dive
into this. This is a back, Jacob. 84% of teens report that they distrust the news. What do you think
about that? Well, let's, let's set the table as they say in our business, Johnny. And I'm looking
at a Gallup poll over here. And it says that 72% of adults trust the news. So trusted. Yeah,
distrust the news. Sorry. Oh, distrust. Yeah, 72% is a whopping, but whopping majority of teens,
and a, and I also say a whopping majority of adults. Yes, distrust of the news. This is a little
scary to me, Jacob. I can talk about why, but I'm curious. What are you thinking? Well, I'm thinking
we need to keep in mind that it's not just our teenagers. Although if you look at that trend,
teenagers are 12% more likely to distrust the news than even their Fox News watching parents are,
which is probably concerning. You would like to see that trend heading the opposite direction.
Instead, we see our young people are even more worried about being able to trust what they see in
the media. I think that it comes from a point of, you know, maybe a little bit of online awareness
and online literacy. I mean, if you're a teenager, you're more used to being on the internet. And
you see crazy stuff there all the time. And maybe a healthy skepticism is a good thing.
But at what point do you go from healthy skepticism to not being able to believe anything?
And I think this is an opportunity for our wonderful educators out there, like yourself, Dr.
Johnny, and like us here on busted pencils to help educate and inform our young people as to
what is a good source? How do you evaluate the legitimacy of information you're saying?
I think it's something that everybody's dealing with in this internet age. And I'm not surprised
to see that young people are dealing with it in the worst way.
Yeah, Jacob. I mean, we're similarly aligned on this. And I love what you talked about in terms
of when we bring it back around to education, the importance we have as teachers,
to acknowledge this moment, this era that we're in and to teach, you know, media literacy,
to talk about where does our information come from, right? Q up B.
Steve Boyz, where you get your information from, boy?
Right. So the idea here, though, really seriously coming back to it is like, how are we
building trust among one another and trust in where we get our information from when this trust
is predominantly what we're expressing, we're experiencing in large groups here, right?
Whether it's teenagers or adults, if we, you know, gather all those surveys together, you know,
what we learn is that there is a, you know, a negative take on media right now.
That's like a polite way of me saying we don't trust the media, right? But one thing that teachers
can be really active in is in teaching media literacy, you know, really teaching what are our
sources? How do we fact check things? What is the best way to navigate a vast sea of information
and separate it out? Okay, what's fact? What's misinformation and what's disinformation?
These are kind of three categories I think off the top of my head when I'm working with social
studies teachers, we talk about, you know, including multiple perspectives and gathering primary
and secondary sources, evaluating those sources. And we do a whole unit on, you know, navigating facts
from misinformation from disinformation. So for listeners, let's just clarify what's the difference
between misinformation and disinformation? Well, here's my simple hard fast rule.
Misinformation is just a source got it wrong. And that's kind of a polite way of maybe we got
information too soon and released it, right? We are incorrect or new information came out that
that, you know, replaces the misinformation that we shared, right? And we have a ethical
responsibility to owning up to misinformation. I often use the example in class like I'm solving
a math problem on the board, I'm adding two fractions and I make a mistake, right? I don't dig in
and stand by it like, hey, nope, this is the correct answer. It absolutely is the correct answer
because it's simply as not. I made a mistake, yeah, right? And I own the mistake and correct it.
And I, you know, we talked about this a lot last week about, you know, you know, risk taking
and modeling that it's okay to fail. It's not really a failure if we're learning together.
So misinformation is simply just getting it wrong. And we have the ethical responsibility
to correcting that. You see that often, updating news, you know, what we had earlier reported
was incorrect. And now we are, you know, more informed and we'd like to, you know, with some
humility here, say, we got it wrong. And here's the most current and fact-based information. Let's
go. So that's misinformation. And there's always been a fair amount of that. This information,
now, Jacob, right, is false information shared with the, with the knowledge of it being false.
But with some kind of intent, right? And this is what experts, and I say experts kind of loosely,
but, you know, the folks who ran the survey with these teens, 13-year-old to 18-year-olds
last spring by the news literacy project and a wonderful nonprofit organization, the news literacy
project, right? But they said, you know, there is a distrust among teenagers in the news. In fact,
84 percent have a pretty dismal view of news media. Well, when we come back around to this,
one of the things that experts say this is important for us to pay attention to is because
it threatens the viability one of a free press or a press because, you know, free press might even
be something of a historical relic at this point. But, you know, historically, and even I
argue contemporarily, like the news media is an important watchdog and guardian of democracy,
like having conversations, right, with one another that are based on information we get
in trust is a really important way that we as democratic citizens stay informed and talk about
the important issues in our communities, right? But what this also does, Jacob, this massive
sea of information we're in, whether it's AI or just internet in general, I don't want to just,
I'm the guy who always picks on AI, so I don't want to just point the finger and say, it's AI's fault.
But it certainly is part of the vast sea of information we're navigating. And within that
misinformation, and I would say predominantly disinformation, right, has led to now we're seeing both
adults and teenagers who are about to become adults. So generations of citizens who are highly
vulnerable to the manipulation and influence of political propagandists, of trolls, of conspiracy
theories, of extremists, ideological extremists. So when we start to open that flood gate, right,
that disinformation is loud or is the standard or is the norm, right? We really make ourselves
vulnerable to the manipulation that that information can influence. And Jacob, I think we've all
experienced this in mass over the least the last decade, certainly through, you know, most recently,
I could think of, you know, elections, as well as, you know, the COVID era, right? Remember,
all the misinformation and disinformation and the conversations around sorting that out.
So not shocked by this, Jacob, love that you did some digging here and see that adults are 72 percent,
you know, dismove you of the news media. And, and young people, I'll call them young people,
13 to 18, you know, also have a pretty dismove view, 84 percent, you know, have a distrust of the
news. I think it's notable, Johnny, to see that it's even higher than the adults who I think a lot
of us, when you were, when we're coming into the internet age, we felt like sure, you know,
our parents and our grandparents, they don't trust the internet and all this media stuff.
But young people, they're totally going to understand it and be able to navigate it.
But it turns out to be the opposite. It's even harder for young people to navigate the media
ecosystem and know what to believe and what to disbelieve. And I think part of that initial promise
of the internet, we thought, oh, this is going to democratize information. It'll be easy for
everybody to get information. And it turns out that some of that information is true and some of
it is false and some of its misinformation and disinformation. So there's just so, there's a lot
of stuff coming at young people all the time. I can understand why they're getting confused.
I agree, man. And every tool can be a weapon, right? And so like we talk about, I do really believe
the internet and like a open free media kind of flow of information is absolutely key to democracy.
I think that's very important. So a little bit of me is saying, I'm also
well disappointed in the outcomes of these surveys. I'm not happy about a distrust of news.
I'm also excited about the fact that young people are aware of it.
Right? So it does like I come back around to, it does set the table as we talked about before
the show. It, you know, sets the table for teachers to be, you know, teaching this to say,
hey, look, where do we get our information from? How do we know that it's fact? How do we,
you know, navigate misinformation? How do we, you know, limit how much disinformation we take in?
And then on the flip side of that, let's point the finger somewhere, right? Let's point the finger
at news media and say, hey, man, come on, you will play an important role in our democracy.
What is your responsibility to fact and to, if you do share misinformation,
misinformation, correcting it, right? If we don't have trust from our reporters,
then what do we have in a democracy? So it's, it's, you know, I think it's a growth moment
for our country and for our world as we're navigating these tools that we're seeing can also be
used as a weapon as a form of, you know, creating vulnerability. So the pessimist side of me,
which is pretty rare, Jacob, but I just kind of speak truth to power here. Okay. Some of this I do
believe is, is by design. All right. Right. So if you make things really messy and most people distrust it
and then the norm becomes to distrust, right? You're eroding one of the core important
characteristics of a democracy. Yeah. You're actively working to a road trust, which is a really
important aspect of democracy. So I sum up, like by design, Jacob, and maybe that puts me in the
category of slightly conspiracy theorists, my students always like to say, okay, Johnny,
take off the tinfoil cap. Right. They're always some of it is some of that is uncontroversial.
I mean, I think it's like the pretty well confirmed that at least, you know, talk about outside
of our own country coming from Russia or whatever, that there are efforts that are documented to
come in and flood us with misinformation. And then I guess you get into more controversial stuff
as well. Are my fellow Americans trying to do this too? But we know that things like this do happen.
There are efforts by people to spread misinformation on purpose to lower the trust.
Yep. And I love this, Jacob, you know, as a teacher, especially when I'm sharing facts,
right, that are also on topics that have a tremendous amount of misinformation and disinformation.
I always start with the same phrase. I say, here we go. We're going to learn about this.
I'm going to share the information that I have that I believe pretty strongly with my expertise
is located in the fact column of information. And I say, I'm not telling you how to think,
or what to think. I'm just giving you those facts, right. Together, we have the responsibility
of figuring out how or what we think. And this is a big thing, I think, that our news media
should be really focused on. Give us the information and give us information that is fact-based,
right. It's the best available knowledge, okay, because we can always say, well, how do we
absolutely know something is fact? Well, we have a standard in a criteria. It's been,
you know, something that journalists can speak to, reporters can speak to, the sort of like an
ethical oath that I think we take as reporters or as journalists, or as anybody sharing information,
that is fact-based. Otherwise, it should be categorized as fiction, right. And so,
if we're not categorizing what we're sharing as fiction, and we're we're purporting it as fact,
we have the responsibility to back those facts up. And then I really like, especially in this moment
we're in, to really clearly say, not telling you how or what to think, just sharing the information.
Now, Jacob, I will say, I actually don't mind when people I look to for information,
also share how they think, right, or maybe tell me what might be a good way to think. I don't
mind that, but I think as a culture, especially in this vulnerable moment we're in, we're very
sensitive to being told how or what to think. You know, it's a kind of reactionary moment. And
that's also the increased number, like you gave me 72% of adults, you know, have a dismal
view of them, of the news or distrust, and 84% of teens. Well, this is also reminding me as a guy
who spends a lot of time around teenagers as an educator, right. I know one thing about them,
I know a few things about them, but one thing I could say is they have the best
detection and radar system for authenticity, right. And if you're not authentic,
then for worse, I would say that's part of being a teenager, but it's also part of like
why young generation is so important. But for better or for worse, they kind of, they have an
either or adults. That's probably why that number is a little lower too for the adult population.
You know, like I said, I don't necessarily mind being told how to think because, you know,
I'm fairly developed in my own beliefs and thoughts and, you know, I've had some years to
experience some things and to see some, you know, swings and information. So I can take in
information here, somebody who's telling me how they think and maybe even telling me how they
think I should be thinking. And I can navigate that with some discernment. Teenagers,
in my experience, Jacob, and I love this about him are like, you're either real or you fake.
And if you fake, GTFO, right, they're just like dismissed, shut down. And this is true,
even when we're just teaching, if I'm teaching math and I'm being real about it and I'm developing
relationship with my students and I'm being authentically me, right. They learn better, not just
from me, but from any teacher. So right, like I tend to be a loud, boisterous, big energy teacher,
right. Maybe the teacher next door to me is a quiet, structured and very direct with their
language. And, you know, they're just a different teaching style, but it's true to them.
They're real. Yeah, ask students about their favorite teachers. And then you start to ask
them about why they learn well in that classroom. One of the things they'll always tell you is,
oh, miss so-and-so, or miss is so-and-so, and Mr. So-and-so, they're real. You're like, what does
that mean? I mean, they just, you know, they just start, they're, you know, they're right or die.
They're here for it. They love math. They like teaching us. They really care about us. They share
all these things about this person that reminds me of their either or you're either real or you're
not. And if you're not, good luck. Good luck getting through to the youths, right. And I love
this about them. So that reminds me of this too, you know, like how our news media can be more real.
And I think part of that in this era, and we're all a little bit sensitive to this. Just say,
I'm not telling you how to think or what to think. I'm sharing information with you that I believe
is important for you figuring out how you think and what you think, right. So that's kind of my
thing today, Jacob. I got a little off topic here there in our home room almost turned it into a
class and session. Sorry, Liz. And it's supposed to be light and just preview the week. But,
you know what, we're into it. It's November. It's almost the Thanksgiving break. We're coming off
of education celebration week together for safe, just and equitable schools by the NEA. You know,
just a fun reminder, like Jacob said, it doesn't need to be a celebration week to thank somebody
who's given their hard work to something really special public education. And when you're
supporting public education, you're practicing democracy in action. And now it's time for your moment
of sin. If those in charge of our society, politicians, corporate executives, and owners of
press and television can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power.
Thanks for listening to Busted Pencil's home room podcast today. And remember to grab great podcasts
built with more Busted Pencil's content on Apple Podcasts Spotify. And of course, on the civic
media website, and don't you miss this week's class and session on Wednesday. And you'll find our
special drop of producer's choice on Friday. And of course, pencil buster, you can always catch the
Busted Pencil's broadcast on Saturdays at 3 p.m. Central time across all the civic media network
stations for one hour of your favorite blue collar scholars, Emmett Johnny, and keep Busted Pencils.
Thanks for listening to Busted Pencil's home room podcast on Saturdays at 3 p.m. Central time across all the civic media network stations for one hour of your favorite blue collar scholars.