Transcript

Bringing Education and Democracy Together

Busted Pencils · Sat Nov 15, 2025

Oh, man, love it, love it, love it, love it. Musta pencils fully let it education talk

educated educators talking education. Man, one hour Saturday show, especially everybody driving

around listening and even thinking about, you know what, if you're in the garage, you

know, hiding out from whatever family member it is you like to hide out here in the garage,

you got that radio on. Well, guess what? You found busted pencils Tim Johnny and Jacob. It's

one hour. What is busted pencils? Well, just sit back and we're going to show you a lot,

but guess what? Public education, democracy, all those things. Yeah, we talk about your

neighbor because well, you know what? Your neighbor knows a lot of things and we like to make

sure that your neighbor is always even more informed. Where do you get your information

from? Hopefully you're going to be continuing to get your information from busted pencils

because, hey, guess what? We are trusted. I don't know. Yeah, I think we're incredibly trust

worthy. I mean, if you could see us right now on the YouTube, you would say, of course, I trust

those guys. They have great hair on their faces. I'm glad you're bringing this up because I don't

think I definitely have been referred to as trustworthy and a trusting kind of person, but I would

say at a glance, I'm going to be back on the opposite of people kind of turn and go the other

way when they see the when they see the tall bearded bald guy comment. So, you know, I think you

just got to you got to you got to engage right? You got to show with your actions that you're a

trustworthy person. Just like when we're talking about media and things, right? Trustworthiness is

so important. And I love him that you drop some Beastie boys lyrics there. I think that's a theme

in this show, right? Where do you get your information from? Boy, and then we go. Boom. We got

it. More Beastie boys. More good information. More trustworthiness. Look at him and Johnny. That's

why we're on the radio. And though, you got to remind people you got to fight for your right

to party too. That was what in 1987, Sigma Pi fraternity, a Greek week sing. We sang, yeah,

I got to fight for your right to party because when you're a fraternity brother at a small state

university, fighting for your right to party was probably one of the key political functions that

we did as a fraternity, which is, you know, how I'm now here in this position. No, you guys think

about this, right? You know, we've had lots of conversations. Departing is way right in the bus

defense party writing. But we've had so many conversations, you know, the implications of politics

on education, because they they just go together. I know right now it's like, oh, they talk

in politics in school. We're not allowed to do that. Well, it's kind of hard to be part of

particularly a public education if we're not embedding politics. And the push to curb

diversity, equity, and inclusion, particularly from public schools has, you know, we've talked,

we've talked about whether it's in Florida, whether it's in Ohio, whether it's in Wisconsin,

lots of pushes to get rid of diversity, equity, and inclusion. However, you define that so many

people, again, go back to all of our other shows if you really want to deep dive on DEI.

But with that, though, the implications, did you know what you were getting in the package? You

thought you were buying? This is going to one of those again. Did you know? Well, in Ohio,

Senate Bill 1, and before I left Ohio, we were talking about this as being, uh-oh, if this thing

becomes law, it's going to be a real problem, particularly for colleges, because this was,

as we said, it came across as going, well, if you teach anything, diversity, equity, and inclusion,

you know, the feds will not the feds, the state troopers or the state people are going to come

after you. Well, once you got past all of that and you didn't look deeply into the law,

Senate Bill 1 also said, hey, if you've got low enrollments in programs over a certain number of

years and you're a public college, you have to cut those programs. And that is now the reality.

People went, wait, I thought this was a DEI law. No, it was also a low enrollment law. If you have

low enrollment, you have to get rid of your programs. And if you're a student in those programs,

oh my goodness, what does that mean? Well, with every kind of, you can always look forward to

someone else to go, but hey, we see you. And so coming out of my home state, Pennsylvania,

and in fact, Pittsburgh Point Park University, private university to help Ohio students hit by

university program cuts. And that's right, a new transfer scholarship. It's called the Buckeye

Fresh Start Scholarship will support displaced Ohio students through additional funds and academic

assistance. This is going to all of those Buckeye students in those programs across, I think it's

University of Akron Kent State or the first ones to announce program closures and Point Park

and everybody's going geographically, where is that? Hey, it's less than an hour across the border.

Point Park has said, guess what? We got a scholarship for those students. And if you want to finish

your major, come see us, Johnny, lots to unpack in this. But really looking at to me, this is one of those,

oh, I didn't know that is what the law meant moments to me because I actually have, I know a lot

of people in Ohio and guess what? And I'll even say I was part of the the fray that was so caught up

in the DEI anti-democracy anti-free speech problems that was in Senate Bill 1 that I didn't look

either to see that, oh, low enrolled programs have to be cut. I didn't know, I didn't know that

was the package, but right now there are lots of people in Ohio saying, wait a minute, we didn't

know about that. And there are people now, well, Point Park University and Pittsburgh saying,

well, great, guess what? We'll take you though. Tim, I got some questions about that. We got to

hear before we go to break. I got clarifying questions to ask. So, well, I think this makes a lot

of sense and it might be shocking that I decide, but I mean, if something's not selling well, and I

hate, remember, I'm a big, big enemy of let's introduce the market economic model into education,

especially public education, but higher education is fully immersed itself into market economy

here in the United States. It's a product. You're paying for services, whether that be like

getting an education or being taught or whatever you want to call a program or a degree.

It's immersed into the market. And then so it would make sense to me that if I have a product

that I'm selling that's not selling, then I would stop stocking that product.

Right. And of course, it might still be available somewhere else, but it just doesn't make economic

sense for me to do that. Just like if I have something on my menu and I'm at a restaurant that

just people aren't ordering or even worse coming to sit down in my restaurants, right? Then I've

got to make some changes. So I get some of this, but I do think there's like a political agenda

attached to what gets closed. That might be why it's kind of attached to like the I kind of

conversations. But the question I have after that, Tim, is what's happening? Do Ohio institutions

not do what most other institutions of higher ed do in terms of when a student

files a program of study declares a major? That's a contract between the provider and the student

that they will be able to at the minimum finish out their program. Now that finish out could

be put into some scare quotes because we've all seen like finish out kind of means like well,

you know, we're going to do the best we can to get to those classes that were part of that program.

But we're dismantling it. So many of the professors may be leaving and you know, and your class

makes them in not becoming. So the experience might really change for students, but I was wondering,

you know, in closures of programs, those students, those universities or, you know, colleges have

a obligation under like, you know, file a program of study or a declaring a major that they will

complete out at least that. So it might be like, hey, it's going into closure. So no new enrollment

for that. And let's phase it, phase it out. Is that not, is it just because I'm kind of trying to

understand Ohio, are they just cutting these and being like, forget all that old like ethical

responsibility to the student stuff. We're not serving this program anymore.

Oh man, that's deep. Now we're into the politics of higher education within.

Well, here's the thing I'm going to cut you off because everything is political. You're driving me

crazy saying, this is political, but if you're making a decision or you're having a conversation

that involves anybody but yourself. And actually, I would argue even including just yourself. So you

talk into you, right? It's political. Everything is political. You're either, you know, in favor of the

kings of the queens or the serfs on the other side of the wall. It's all political. So I'm, I'm,

I'm slightly worried now because I was thinking my one uncle who's not going to be a Thanksgiving.

It was going to be a good one this year. But now you're saying I'm going to have to do battle with

myself at Thanksgiving. And so now I'm, man, you, you might be battling with yourself before Thanksgiving.

No, okay. Yeah, some of those are in place. Still there. They need to finish out, but they have to be

in either their, their senior year in that program for that new student. So in a certain,

yeah, they have to be far enough in. It makes sense.

You know, and so they're going to finish those students out. In fact, my daughter at WVU had

that happen in a lot of the programs she's in. She's in wildlife studies. Wildlife studies wasn't

cut, but a lot of the programs in her college, particularly dealing with parks and park service

and things. And yeah, hey, we're going to let you finish, but all the faculty left. And the courses

we're going to let you take in place aren't really courses, but we're going to let you count them

towards graduation. So you have that. And, you know, but for those seniors, it's kind of like, okay,

well, crap, I need to do it. But for students in their junior or sophomore years, they can change

majors or, whoa, look over there across the border, $15,000 merit scholarships to transfer

to point park university. Now, Johnny, yeah, there's a mixture here of going, hey, point parks,

just saying, you know what, we're just going to be a, we're going to jump into this market.

And say, we say, we got a product that sounds like it sounds like market economics,

it's finest. You know, but I mean, there's a lot here, SB1, but I'm just so you know, yes,

where we at university, Akron, corrosion engineering, fire prevention technology, dance,

theater arts, anthropology, natural sciences, humanities, that's a list of some of the programs

that are going away. If that frightens you to hear that those are some of the programs,

you're thinking, wait a minute, corrosion studies, how could they get rid of corrosion studies?

Well, in the rust belt, it's a rust belt. Well, we're not rusty, but it's busted pencils.

Holy landed, we'll be right back.

Yeah, we're back feeling a little corrosive right now. Tim Johnny and Jacob busted pencils

fully-ledded education talk, educated educators talking education. If you just joined in and like

corrosive, what the heck are they talking about? Hey, in Ohio, SB1, be careful what you, you voted

for because it's now the law of the land majors that have less than five students over a three-year

period. Those majors have to be cut. One of those majors was corrosion studies. I know people are

sitting there going, well, who even knew that was a major needs to be cut. But you know, we know

market and point park, yeah, holy crap, jumping up and going, hey, you know what, we got something to

sell and we're going to jump into the market. Don't really want to get into the economic conversation

as much as I want to ask a question to Jacob and Johnny, but you know, it's easy to pick on

corrosion engineering technology and go, well, duh, get rid of it if there's no students.

But when you start to look at some of the others, isn't there a point where higher education

is also about serving the, you know, our human rights are democratic values preparing us to be

citizens in a democracy. And so sometimes we might look at a, you know, for example, at

University of Akron, the bachelor's degree in humanities is, am I weird to be thinking that

that's just a major that we should always be offering because it has such just a value in and

of itself of what it stands for in that it is preparation for civic participation for life

in a democracy. And if you're willing to say, well, you know what, we've got, didn't say no enrollment,

low enrollment, well, low enrollment, you know, must be that this stuff isn't worth studying. Or I

asked the question and go, really, the humanities is that also a potentially anti-democratic move

to say, those are the kinds of things we actually are, you know, behind the diversity, equity,

inclusion. Yeah, we want to get rid of those thinking disciplines because those are the kinds of

majors that create people that go out and ask questions. And the last thing we want in a democracy

is people who ask questions, being sarcastic, Johnny, being sarcastic. Okay, yeah. That's

where I look at this and say, at some point, a public higher education institution of which all

these Ohio institutions are, shouldn't there also be a mandate that at a minimum, here are majors

that serve our citizens. And these are majors that never go away because of our commitment to

democracy, of citizenship, of just learning to to cooperate and live in harmony with each other.

John, I'm going to let Jacob go. I'm going to let Jacob go because I want to hear Jacob,

because you you served up a lot and I got to figure out where to jump in. Jacob, what do you think

about this man? I think it is a lot of things that Tim said, but I've

evaluated them rapidly and I'm ready to give my, my ill considered response. Tim, I got to say

when Plato created the academy, he was not just teaching how to go work at Wall Street. He had more

things in mind to teach people. And when you look at a society and a civilization in a country,

you don't judge them in the past based just on the economic values of that country. You look at,

you know, whatever it is, you want to go back to the bellypock in France in the 19th century.

You look at these countries also based on their cultural achievements, their artistic achievements,

all these things. And some of that isn't necessarily about making money. And if we're going to

measure our country against other countries, I think part of that is in how well do we do at

educating people to think, how well do we do to educate people to create art, to do new things,

to have new philosophical ideas. When we reduce everything down to the ledger, I think we lose

out on a lot. And if we're going to try to fool ourselves, I think we really are putting ourselves

in a position of ignorance to imagine that, oh, all these other generations, money wasn't a problem.

Back when they were funding art and they were funding philosophy, they just had no money problems

whatsoever. No, it's always a tough thing. But in the past, it seems like we valued it a bit more

than than people are today. Or maybe I'm being naive when I say that, Tim, would you say that

it's always a struggle to weigh these things. And we're always fighting for these programs and

someone's always going to be trying to trim the fat. Jacob, man, you are a man who navigates

the Chinese buffet, like no man I've ever met. Tim, he serves up the Chinese buffet, by the way,

listeners, that's one of my favorite places to go eat. If you're not, especially talking about Ohio,

Midwest guy here, loved Michigan, where I come from. And man, one of my favorite places to go is the

Chinese buffet. There's always one close by. And man, they serve everything. And I can never

decide what I want to eat. So I can go up. And I'm always like, oh, so much stuff. What do I want?

Jacob just slated on that, man. He can navigate the Chinese buffet. Tim, I agree with what Jacob

saying here, you know, the point and purpose of higher education, especially a public higher

education, but even a private can still, it's still element of that is public education that's

just less accessible. It's more tailored, tailored towards the wealthy, right? But it has a history

rooted in, you know, the roots of democracy, the sharing of ideas, the, you know, bringing together

efforts to find truth to help us be better together. So, you know, this idea of marketizing it,

cutting it up, chopping it up, and canceling things gets to be a bit of a problem.

More, I'll dive more into my portions of the Chinese buffet when we come back to him, because I

have some, some thoughts about this as well. Well, okay. So is it going to be orange beef or

general sauce chicken? We'll see when bus and bezels gets back.

Ah, man. I just feel like marching and banging my head every time that music comes back.

Busted, apparently, fully-led at education talk, educated educators talking education, Dr. Johnny

Lupinacci, Jacob Chairman of the boards, me, Dr. Tim Slecker, higher education, Senate Bill

I, diversity, equity and inclusion, low enrolled programs, the humanities, democracy,

Johnny, you talked about serving up a Chinese buffet of all kinds of different offerings here

today and trying to make sense. In other words, communicating to the listener that Tim's a bit of an

ADHD disorganized mess. No, you're the Chinese buffet, man. I love the Chinese buffet.

But who are listeners? That's why they tune in.

I, you know, there's a lot here and we kind of left it at saying it, higher education's

mission, while yes, is to, quote, you know, prepare students for, you know, the ability to work

in industries that are paying wages. But it's also the mission of higher education is it's not

just vocational training. It is preparation for, for, for living life for us here in America,

a democracy of, of knowing what it is to be a citizen, to, to grapple with uncertainty.

And, you know, a lot of these majors that are being affected by SB1, well, yeah, maybe

corrosion studies, maybe there's not so much job work or work around figuring out why things

are rusting. But, you know, the humanities and I just think about this as being at some point

doesn't the state, in this case, the state of Ohio shouldn't they be just plain valuing majors

that might not have, I don't know, economic viability, but my God, have civic society viability

and for that purpose alone, you'd say, hey, our mission as a public institution of higher education

is to keep democracy going. We're going to keep this major open. I, maybe I'm, maybe I'm just

not really too marketized on this Saturday, Johnny, Jacob, Jacob, Johnny.

Well, man, I, I get what you're saying. I come back to this though, and, and I'm split,

because in, in, in big theory, I'm like, this is wonderful. We have, you know, this,

goal of producing democratic citizens and the humanities and whatnot, all contributes this well

around in this. The other half of me is a little bit of a wake up calls like college, wake up.

Like, this is something that, like, you don't need to go to college, become a good citizen.

Oh, you don't need to go to college to learn, to practice good democratic values.

The idea that to be successful, you need to be at college or that college is some, some,

some magic silver bullet into a better society is elitist, right? And I love this and I work in

higher ed. I mean, so, so that's what I'm saying. I'm really torn. So I get into this and, and,

and so that's one beef I have with the whole thing. The other one is, like, we can be a little less

about that. And, and you can also learn your humanities and you can be part of any program and a

college university. And the university can market it better and just serve its customers better.

Like, if you don't have butts and seats, that's not the contents problem. That's not the

president's problem. That's not the political agenda that's your failure to put butts and seats.

Also, we talked about a few things, Tim, I'm being a little harsh. It's, you know, the Saturday

though, we're in our, we're in our weekend students. I'm wearing my fart catchers.

Let's, you know, let's talk about this being like, like, the whole, the whole point of,

of education is to, you know, I think these come down to notch. That's not me saying education

isn't important. It's just saying that, like, there is a lot of ways, like, the things that the

humanities bring, people that ask questions, like learning to be creative. This is stuff that, you

know, doesn't necessarily need to be enclosed into only higher ed. But for some reason, people

want higher ed are like, ah, what's going to happen to society? If we cancel these programs,

no one's going to be creative. It's like, they might actually be more creative because we're doing

a pretty poor. That's the best replacement word I can have for the few, few bad words that popped

into my head, but the poor job we're doing at keeping buns and seats. Now, the other thing you

did bring up a week ago, Tim, I think is really important to matters. There are just less buns to

put in the seats. Oh, yeah. You know, so there are other factors, but sometimes turn the lens inward

and listeners. That's why, I mean, I'm being pretty harsh on higher education right now,

but I'm like, it's two sides of the coin, right? It's how I make my living too. It's part of being

in higher education and understanding that sometimes when a program ends, it's because we haven't

done the job to connect it to career to make it worth the investment. Remember, the cost is

extraordinary, right? I'm getting beeped out this show for sure. Okay, that goes with everything

anyways. Take care of that. So you hear some beeps today. My apologies, listeners. I'm usually

much more G rated in today. I'm FCC, non-compliant, right? But that's all right. You're in the hockey

right now, Johnny. I know there's sometimes bad words said in a hockey rink.

And my favorite part catcher. So, no, man, for people out there, for people out there,

that's those are sweatpants and us, you know, you know what I'm talking about listener.

Anyways, you know, we come back around to this though, Tim, I think about this a lot. How do we

really balance the education we give in higher education, just like any K-12 educators talking

about too, where we aren't separating out the humanities, we aren't, you know, you know,

having to worry about which degree is more important than the other. We do the hard work of

figuring out how we can map to career something and include and infuse in that that if you're

becoming a plumber, you also probably like to read or you like to watch films or the,

there's a humanities aspect to nearly every career. So, I get really upset with sometimes my peers,

myself, including when I fall into this trap, we start to be like, well, what happens if I want

a major in poetry? Well, then you probably can choose that, but it's not going to, like, if the

purpose for you being in college is to get a job at the end of this, you may not get a job as a

poet. Now, that's not me arguing to close down poetry classes or programs or for students not

to major in that because what I happen to do know, what I do know is that industry highly

seeks out creatives, people who have these skills. So, I am going to be hard on higher ed.

It is the failure of higher ed to connect the dots between real work experience and what

companies and and all kinds of people hiring are looking for to your degree and seeing those

connections to all those different degrees, because I promise you corrosion studies, right,

right? With a degree you talked about in engineering is incredibly important.

If we can connect it to other things that industry is seeking, you'll fill seats. It is part

of our job, maybe not the actual teachers, but part of higher ed's job as a company to fill seats.

And in failure to connect those dots, you do see programs that are struggling through where

they're at to see themselves in those careers, right? I'm almost saying we need to call back to

the Renaissance. Actually, Tim, like I was a blue collar scholar myself, right, a musician, a

creative, all these things. My peers are some of the smartest people I know, but they identify as

not smart because they didn't go through school programs. They also read books, make music,

do art, all these kinds of things, but they don't necessarily identify themselves as like

successful academically. So in other words, yeah, you're saying you have friends who are

poets who don't know it. They know it. They just resist the fact that like, why would I go pay

$100,000? Yeah, to do what I learned to do from people who do it in a really democratic way.

And that's what I'm going to come back around to this. If we're talking about democracy really

opening life, openly, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, popular sovereignty,

patriotism, right trust, equality, diversity, all these things. Higher ed has taken up the agenda

of enclosing things. I agree with you on that. And then elevating the status of it so that it could

become a higher sought after commodity. And I'm also a big fan of high ed. I just don't like how

it's positioned and enclosed in a distant access and with with with what's it called cultural capital

that we could say, I mean, you know, that you said my friends oppose it, but doesn't know,

no, they know it. They just knew they also needed to be a plumber and that they liked and could do

both things without the $80,000 in debt. No, I get it. Now, I got to say though, at the end of one

of these articles coming out of Cleveland.com, just to kind of bring this and Johnny, this is

specifically for you. Just to remind people, SB1 in Ohio requires schools to generally

and all diversity, equity and inclusion training, departments and scholarships. Professors must post

online all syllabi for the public to inspect. Schools cannot endorse or oppose any controversial

belief or policy on climate policies, electoral politics, foreign policy, diversity, equity

and inclusion programs, immigration policy, marriage or abortion, the bill states, the bill states,

but Johnny, a quote from your favorite institution because not only is Pennsylvania in on this,

but in Miss Michigan, quote, at EMU, you're free to be you. That's an Eastern Michigan University

ad that's running right now that also includes and this is running in Ohio, you are free to be you

and there are no out of state tuition fees. So yeah, I was just going to say Tim, a lot of Ohio kids

just go a little north of the border up until, you know, I mean, at Michigan State, we always,

you know, we always joke about Ohio being down below Michigan, but lots of lots of Ohio students

that come up to Eastern already. So again, Tim, the market, like it's a little hanging fruit. Man,

that sounds also Tim, like we beyond our conversation today, the part that you just read is such

like it's such policy overreach. Yeah, it is, it is, it is, in every way, we talk about education,

public education, being a foundation of democracy, where we practice it and learn it. But Tim, you know,

when you share with that, with that bill and like puts into practice, it's fundamentally anti-democratic,

right? I love the sharing syllabi. I love the openness of it, but then it starts to ban certain

things, which is, which wreaks of authoritarianism, which is, you know, not even a kin, it is fascist

in nature. So it's very, you know, anti-democratic. And I think that's where you were starting us today,

and it's going to be almost an entire hour to get there, because I stopped at the buffet so many

times in my sweatpants. I'm losing my mind. It's a weekend, folks. Thanks for listening. Man, so much,

Johnny Luke, but not G. Man, if people could only see those fart pants, no, we're not going to show

the one we get back. Busted pencils, when we get back.

Oh, yeah, it's dancing time. Plus, the pencil's fully let it. Education talk. Educator's talking education.

Yeah, like I said, if you're out in that workshop and as Johnny says, this is your fart pants,

you're dancing a little bit right now. Shaking those out and leaving them there for some poor

unsuspecting visitor that's coming in behind you. Busted pencils. My goodness, where did we go today?

Senate 01 in Ohio mandates that colleges, public institutions do away with programs that aren't

enrolling students. Some colleges, well, point park specifically across the border in Pennsylvania

said, we'll take you. But then Johnny got to the real big point there, though, too, when we really

look at Senate Bill 1, the anti-democratic aspect of it is schools. This is, again, cannot endorse

or oppose. You can't endorse anything controversial. You can't oppose anything controversial.

I'm not sure where that would leave anything. I'm not allowed to want controversy. And also,

if I see controversy, I can't oppose it. I'm not exactly sure how that will be handled,

if anybody has ever found in violation of that ordinance of the law. But, man, a lot here,

yeah, kind of trying to come back to this, though, and say, you know, so what is it? How do I

bring it? I'm going to try to bring this all the way back. How is it that a bill becomes a law?

Well, let's get a schoolhouse rock. I was going to say just go out schoolhouse rocking and take a

look because, you know, it starts out as one thing. And what ends up being delivered and put forth,

maybe sometimes, you know, you'll never, okay, I'm reading the bill and Saudi Arabia donated to

the crypto fund and now I'm heading. It's funny. We should bring that back up because actually,

if you listen to it, it actually shows the complexity of what happens. It does. Yeah, I mean,

it really does. It takes a lot. So it's been a while for me, the simplicity, but what gets buried

a lot of times is all of the things where you go, but I didn't know. In fact, you'll hear politicians

and legislators, even even now on the big beautiful bill, some Republicans are going, I didn't even

know that was in there. But you voted for it. So again, it's a little bit sometimes of going like,

wow, how did that happen? Hey, that's a democracy in America. And these are some of those things. So

what do you do? Well, it's what we try to do here every Saturday and actually on Mondays, Wednesdays

and Fridays too, when the podcasts are dropped, we we're trying to make sure that you're informed

that you're out there that you that you hear about these things that you get to a sense of going like,

wow, I'm surprised that happened. But not to hear this is going, well, I guess we just have to deal

with it. Well, you kind of do. But now that you know, you're also a member of a democracy. And you

too now have the opportunity to become an active citizen and kind of make known your dissatisfaction.

And even if you get more people behind you, maybe it is time to say, that was a dumb idea. And guess

there are lots of dumb ideas. And if you want to get rid of a dumb idea, get a dumber idea and

get a lot of people behind you. And then you can replace it. No, actually get a smarter one.

I just think this is how, you know, again, what did we get? It's not exactly what we wanted. Okay,

well, then let's go back and let's fix it. In fact, maybe on this one, doing away with under

enrollment really isn't the problem. And really the real problem is coming back to what we just

pointed out. All of the mandates about things that you can and cannot say, is that really you

standing there in your workshop or driving around in your cart? Is that really what you wanted?

Was is that for people to go to college and be told, don't ask that question. Don't think about

that. Have faculty saying you can't read this. I'm not going to share that with you. Is that really?

Really what we want from higher education, from any education, particularly public education.

Tim, I, the president needs to get involved because you can't say controversial things about

climate change or immigration. He won't be able to say anything at a school in Ohio.

All right. Well, because he can't say anything controversial about controversy. And with that,

well, you know, love and bust in pencils, but now it's time for your moment of zin.

The wealth of the country is being stolen from the people and handed over to the super rich.

Well, thank you for listening to today's broadcast. And if you want more busted pencils podcasts,

just head on over to the Apple Spotify. You can always get at us at civicmedia.com or on our website

bustedpensils.com. Remember, you can find great busted pencils content every Monday for homeroom,

Wednesdays for class and session and on Fridays for a producer, Jacob's choice. And of course,

pencil busters. Just like today, you can tune in on Saturdays and listen to the busted pencils

weekend broadcast 3 p.m. Central time across all the civic media networks for one hour of your

favorite blue collar scholars. Tim and Johnny, they keep busted pixels.