Now, you know, the concept principles fully-ledged education talk, educated educators talking
education, Dr. Johnny Lupinachi me, Dr. Tim Slecker, and oh, yes, you know, it is that
day. Jacob chairman of the board. He's here because it's producer's choice. Jacob,
how are you, man?
Hey, Tim, I'm doing good. I'm glad that you could make it here to your own show. It's
always a huge pleasure for me to have you and Johnny on the producer's choice show. And
I think we're going to have a pretty good holiday edition of the producer's choice. I don't want
to give away what we're going to talk about. But so far, the producer's choice, I think I've
done a good job of always bringing us back home to our holidays of the week. And this will be
no exception. So unless you have any more intro things you'd like to talk about.
Um, I am, I'm ready to go. I mean, holidays, I'm thinking, you know, if we're like the commercials,
no, just go, I'm ready, Jacob, I'm ready. And I'm not nervous going for two, two, producer,
a Jacob's choice, chairman of the board. You and I will have two choices. Chairman of the board,
Jacob. Oh, Jacob chairman of the board. I bet the board is spelled B-O-R-E-D.
We choose to go to the moon. Life's a tough choice in here.
We chose one. All right, welcome our treasured listeners to the Friday, November 14th edition of
the producer's choice show here on busted pencils. I'm not giving anything away guys. I think
when I say that this is the first show after veterans day this year, I feel we're all, we're all
aware. I just want to start off with kind of a general talk about veterans day and the history
of veterans day with you guys. I've got a couple of questions for you guys. First of all,
I'm going to start it out with do you guys know why veterans day is on November 11th?
Armistice day. Boom. Oh, Johnny Lupinachi with the score. War one. Right. Yeah.
We're armistice day. So in honor of remembering that, we keep it on November 11th.
Although, you know, we're falling on a Tuesday, really threw me off this year. You're still having
either a long weekend, you know, that Monday, that typically also veterans day memorial,
memorial day, always kind of blur for me. I know the differences, but I always kind of think,
oh, it's a holiday to remember people in the service, you know, and then I immediately go to
memorial day as well. But no, I believe Jacob November 11th comes from Armistice day, right?
You are absolutely correct, Dr. Johnny Lupinachi. It all began with Armistice day, the ending of
World War one, the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month was when the armistice finally
kicked in to end World War one. I always thought that maybe they shouldn't have waited 11 hours for
the symbolism because I know actually, I mean, it's kind of it's, it's a downer, but people did die
during those last few hours, getting to the symbolic 11th hour. Right. Exactly. Oh, I do also
remember as a kid, be having moment of silence at 11 a.m., which makes sense, right? 11 11 11 11
a.m., right? So, wow. Good symbolism though, huh? I mean, it has stuck with us. So it became a national
legal holiday in 1926. And then in 1954, after World War II and Korea, President Eisenhower changed
the name from Armistice day to veterans day to recognize the last two big wars that came after
World War I and made it a general all veterans holiday in the United States around the world. It's
also known as Remembrance Day, but basically because it started with World War I, it's actually a
pretty worldwide recognized day for honoring veterans. I did, I did not know all of that's
within. Oh, man, which it's, what's commonwealth day in, is that incorrect in Canada? I think it's
all so the 11th and they wear those cool poppies. Yes. Yeah. The poppy is a big symbol of, of
Remembrance, Commonwealth and Veterans Day. Not so much here, I guess, but I think,
even though like, I guess, yeah, because it's about in Flanders fields, right?
Uh, poppies. Anyways, one of my things about the poppy and I think the poppy is a good symbol,
but in Kansas City, Missouri, they have the national World War I museum where the entrance is over a
big glass thing where you can look down beneath you and see a replica of the poppy fields and see
that imagery. Pretty good, powerful, very powerful, really recommended to anybody who's interested in
in history, the Kansas City World War I museum. I want to read to you what Dwight D. Eisenhower
said when he changed the name to Veterans Day. Here you go. I don't have a great Eisenhower
impression. Whenever I try to do it, I think I just kind of do Gerald Ford. So I'm going to,
I'm going to avoid that and just, and just read it. I Dwight D. Eisenhower, president of the United
States of America, do hereby call upon all of our citizens to observe Thursday, November 11th,
1954 as Veterans Day. I assume he also meant this Veterans Day we should observe as well,
not just the Thursday, 1954. On that day, let us solemnly remember the sacrifices of all those
who fought so valiantly on the seas in the air and on foreign shores to preserve our heritage
of freedom and let us re-consecrate ourselves to the task of promoting and enduring peace
so that their efforts shall not have been in vain. I'm a big fan of that way of presenting
our Veterans Day. It's about respecting our Veterans and honoring them and hoping
we don't need more of them to go through that experience.
Yeah. Do you guys feel like Eisenhower nailed it on that one?
I think he nailed it on that, but I don't think we paid attention.
As far as I know, Tim, there have been no more wars since 1954. I think I really,
really, really finished it off. The war to end all wars was successful. No.
Unfortunately, Jacob thrown in that little twist there of just in case anybody didn't catch that,
you can only have a declared war by Congress. You can have lots of police actions and military
interventions and now it appears that you can take out votes that are driving through the Caribbean
if you think they have drugs. Just like Ike would have wanted.
But seriously, folks, it is Veterans Day. I want to start with the history a bit,
get some of that purpose, not just remembering the wars, but having the purpose of caring about
peace and wanting to perpetuate peace. Dr. Tim Selecker.
I got to go. So in fact, because of that, my father-in-law, a Vietnam veteran,
my wife quickly today put out. We have a flag hanging out in front of our house today,
which used to be one of those things that I can remember my father is a child like,
you know, all the time. Pull it out the flag, put it out on the flag, you know,
we had a little kind of like angle thing on the side of the house and put it out there.
It was just something that you saw everywhere. I don't know if this is kind of like,
remember back in the days when people actually cared, but we have a flag out in our front of our
house and pulling in tonight from work. It's pretty awesome looking to see that flag hanging
from our house. So just thought I put that out there. If I could say Tim, I've always felt a
sense of patriotism because we have a cool looking flag and it makes me feel all happy to see it.
And I've always been more in the camp where when I disagree with my fellow Americans or what
my government's doing, I always, I come down more on the, well, actually, it's my flag too. I'm
going to own it too. I'm going to have this cool beach blanket with the flag on it. It's not just
for people I disagree with. That's my patriotism plan. But moving forward from the history of
veterans day, and I can see Tim's awesome house there. I actually see a bat flying in the background.
Nice flag, Tim. Yep. Just had to show you. I want to hit on some of our current stuff. What's
going on in the world? And specifically, I want to talk about education and veterans because I know
that there's a lot of programs out there for veterans to get involved in education,
a lot of ex veterans getting into teaching. I kind of want to have kind of an open discussion with
you two educated educators about some of the things you've been saying. So maybe we can start off,
Tim. Can you talk about just sort of some of the ex veteran, or I guess you're always a veteran,
but ex military young students that you've been interacting with?
I mean, I've done this now and this will be the third institution working a lot with veterans.
In fact, maybe even more so here, but there is in, I think almost Johnny will probably say this
too, all institutions of higher education. There's usually an office of veterans of fairs or
something like that, where if you're a vet returning to college, you get to hopefully the director
of the vet center is themselves also a vet and can really lay out for you the different programs
that are available, whether it's how to use money that they were put forth through some type of
an enlistment program, GI bills, different types of things now. But more importantly now is the
acknowledgement and recognition of that service and how it counts for what we're saying credit for
prior learning so that you've done this, whether it's four years, 20 years, 34 years,
bring that to the campus because higher education now is saying that work that you did,
that service that you gave for the country, it's worth college credits and let's see what we can
work with to make the service that you provided for the country. Let's count it towards a college
degree. I'm excited about that work. You know, I'm sure Johnny will point out though too,
and veterans to teachers pathways were something that we've talked about in the past on busted
pencils. So I mean, I excited right there to acknowledge that type, again, that work, whether
they were doing four years, 20 years, but that is not something that, hey, now that you're done with
the service, would you like to come back to college and spend a whole lot of money to get a degree,
instead of say, hey, you know what, not only thanks for your service, but your service really does count
here at this institution of higher education. I know that one of the biggest difficulties that veterans
have when they come home from their services is that transition from your previous life as a soldier
being so different from your civilian life. I think that's a really great thing you're talking
about there, Tim, of not just it's good to have the credits, but it's good to recognize that
your previous life and your new one, there's a synergy there. Your old skills can apply to what
you're going to do now. I think that's a great transition to help with the veterans and Tim,
if you could inform me, because this is your expertise, not mine, but I've always felt that there's
a lot of issues out there for veterans, whether it's talking about access to mental health care,
access to housing, the job market, but one thing that as an outsider, neither a veteran or a teacher,
I've always felt had a pretty good reputation was the educational opportunities for veterans.
That always seems like something that vets actually do get what they were promised roughly.
Am I getting that right? I mean, is that a good solution? Yeah, yeah, you're right. But here's
where that office of veterans affairs on any of the campus comes by, hey, guess what?
Other than the institution making some types of credit for prior learning deals,
but there are lots of resources that vets were promised through their enlistment,
through their service, through their commitment, through different things.
And I guess what? It's the federal government. And sometimes accessing all of those resources
that they were promised, it's a, you know, it's a bit of a puzzle, a maze, a metric,
matrix that really requires dedicated personnel. And so that's, I was just at a workshop last weekend
with having two vets that are currently going through our public higher education system.
And their pitch was to say how important the office of veterans affairs are on campuses,
because whether it's a GI bill, whether it was a $10,000 signing bonus, how it can be a portion
across the total number of credits. So there, you know, there are with the federal government,
guess what? There are lots of rules. And so to access those resources, that's where that office
of veterans affairs really comes in handy. That's what I got right now.
I don't think anybody here on the show would claim that higher education is perfect in everything
that you guys try to do at institutions. But I would say that a strength of your average university
is having lots of advisors who are happy to talk to you, having an open office that you can
come ask questions at. So in that way, I am at least encouraged to say at a university,
this complicated process shouldn't be so complicated. But you could probably find Susan at the
help desk who will talk to you and try to guide you. And that is encouraging. I want to ask you,
Johnny, you're an educated educator who educates educators. Can you tell us a bit more about the vets
to teaching pathway and pipeline there? Well, I mean, you know, they exist. And I think Tim touched
on it. It's at least at the institutions I've worked out and that I'm familiar with there isn't
a specific pathway designated for veterans. Okay. However, though through like GI bill,
Pell grants, different things like more recently, I think the yellow ribbon programs and things
like that that help, you know, fund, you know, people who have given their service. And then they
can apply that, you know, educational benefits package to whatever kind of degree they want to get.
And I think in some context, it's becoming a teacher. I don't see it as frequently as some of
the other career pathways. But definitely, it's an option for folks. And you know, like we've
talked about alternate pathways to teaching, having degree programs that are just more accessible
that aren't only for 18-year-olds, right? There are 19 to 21-year-olds that aren't,
you know, all in-person classes five days a week during the week. So I think as more of those
alternate pathways to teaching programs grow, they most certainly find themselves with what I'll
kind of categorize as a nontraditional student. So there's a mixture and over the 20-some years I've
been in higher ed, right? There's been a strong mixture, different universities, different kind
of demographics, but there's been a small mix of some undergrads, some traditional undergrad students
that are just finishing their service and starting school as to like more seasoned, you know,
adults. So older students who are, you know, maybe they just didn't do the minimum service, maybe
they had a career in the services and the military or in the Navy or the, you know, the Air Force.
And they are, you know, transitioning from one career to another. And so seeing a lot of those
really great attributes, love the love the move of more and more higher education institutions,
you know, finding ways to count services credit, right? It's not the same as a degree,
but certainly some of the objectives we have in a, you know, undergraduate degree,
you probably picked up through your training, through the courses you took in the military,
through your service, through your, you know, traveling, I won't call it traveling, right?
Through your work, you've done around the world, it includes travel, but I don't want to,
you know, make it sound like people are in service and they go on vacation by any means, right?
But that world-mindedness and that global perspective that we often, you know, look to curriculum
to supplement, you know, they're often times in classrooms, you know, a valuable source
of sharing global and world perspectives. So I love that more institutions are finding ways to
count credit that service as credit, not only to, you know, provide financial benefits packages
to people who serve so that they can, you know, go to school and like, re-career if you want to call
it that or change careers or in so many contexts, apply what they thrived and found joy in,
in the services and the armed services to a civilian job, right? So you may have found yourself
like you really enjoyed, you know, sharing your knowledge with others and teaching, you know,
newer members of your team, how to, you know, do X, Y and Z and so you can become a teacher.
Likewise, you might, you might be an engineer, right? Pre-engineering, you've done a lot of
civil engineering work, you know, in the, in your service. I could go on and on with students that
I meet, who serve, especially on a week like this, when we can remind and thank them for that
service. It's always special, but always asking students when you see them in uniform or you find
out that they've served, you know, asking them like, hey, like, hey, what is your, what's your program?
What degree are you getting? Why? When did you know you wanted to become a computer programmer? Like,
when did you, and I can tell you, in those conversations, almost always, at one point in their
experience in the service, they really found joy in success or they really thrived at a particular
thing. That like Tim said, folks, either they came right out of their, of their service and
entered higher education with that focus or in conversations with support, like you could
you talked about advisors, and Tim talked about, you know, offices of veteran affairs and
different ways to support students, you know, having those conversations, key, huge,
because they become such an integral part of our college campuses and obviously of our communities.
I want to ask you this, Johnny, just something I've been thinking about during our conversation,
and started with what Tim said about being able to apply some of your practical life experience
from your previous work and get credit for it and made me think, you know, is that something
by helping veterans with that? Is that, can that help lead the way to recognizing other forms of
experience for people coming in from perhaps a previous career and getting credit for some of those
things? And wider than that, it gets me thinking, well, we've got a higher veteran presence at our
school that might encourage to have better mental health facilities at our school and might
help get more advisors. Is there a way in which veterans actually help push some of these good
things that later trickle out to everybody? I mean, I would say, yeah, that's that that makes a
lot of sense to me. I mean, I don't know, I don't honestly, I don't know that it's veterans leading
in the charge on this and it ought to be going to come to the flip side of this where we talk about
how great and important it is to remember and honor, you know, those who serve and and how much
we're excited and we love these programs that fund, you know, veterans to go back to school or
because I'll say they do a fair amount of course work, you know, and their service, you know,
just like sign up, hey, I'm going to be, you know, this guy, I'm going to be in charge of, you
know, heating and cooling over here on these submarines and I don't need to know anything to do it.
They just kind of stand me here, you know, like there's a lot of studying, there's a lot of school
work, there's a lot of learning. And so I think counting that as credit is is a no-brainer. I would
like to say Jacob, it's being pioneered on that on that front because it's been around for
for a little while. But overall, I'm always in general concerned with the way that we don't
necessarily support our veterans. I think Tim mentioned that at the beginning of the show,
you know, give credit to like this not, it's not even like starting over when they fold into your
courses, right, when they fold into like a higher ed degree. They have such a unique pathway and
contribution to our democracy and our society that like, you know, I know it sounds silly on a
holiday and that may be silly is not the right word, but like, you know, it's kind of, it's kind of,
is kind of the right thing to say on these days, but really all days of the year at all moments,
right, I would love to have these conversations really be about, okay, so how is this unique
student pathway so highly valuable to our educational community? Because I know as a student and also
as a teacher, you know, it's brought so much value to both me as a learner, as a student, to have
veterans in class, to have like friends who, you know, come came through a different pathway than I
did, share in their world views and their experiences and that's a big, big part of going to
college is having those classroom discussions with people who have different culture than you,
who, you know, have different life experiences than you and our veterans bring such an important
and Tim can probably test to this, having taught lots of vets as well. Like, I mean, some of the
most thoughtful and wise perspectives on world politics, right, and on, on compared, like,
just talking education, comparative education stuff, you know, being able to share like, hey,
when I was stationed here, you know, this is what the schools were kind of like, or this is what
it was like, you know, to be in particular when I was, you know, becoming a teacher and then
teaching what it was like to be, you know, in the conflicts in the Middle East, right, what,
what life was like for kids going to school in Afghanistan, right? And so it, it really brings
that human level to both, you know, times of conflict and times of peace, but to world differences
that I always very early on realized, this is something extra special and valuable,
so I love to see it part of our, our college experiences, our college campuses, not to
instrumentalize the surface. Yeah. Tim, I want to ask you a question. Are you ready to field one
for me? I am, I am ready, Jacob. All right. So Johnny was kind of hitting on it there, talking
about, you know, a lot of the great value that veterans contribute to classrooms that they're in.
I want to ask you, if you could give a piece of advice or some wisdom to our fellow teachers or
to our fellow administrators out there about what they can do in your opinion to really serve
their veterans and help get not only, not only deliver the best education to veterans, but also
get value from their veterans to their fellow students. Well, I mean, first thing is this, and this
is actually, I hate, you know, say this from the standpoint is that anytime we're bringing in any
student, it's, it's, it's the value of that advising and serving their needs to put that forward
in acknowledging that and seeing individual students for what it is that they're bringing to
this, this idea of potentially saying, I'm going to get back into higher education or I'm going
to start. But, you know, from a leadership standpoint, what I've seen now in looking at those
veterans affairs offices is to really put as much effort and resource, and I mean this resource,
if you haven't, because guess what? Those offices I've seen them now are again,
shoestring budgets, you know, and the reason they're so successful is because of the committed
directors that I've worked with, who themselves were veterans, who are there and really understand
what it is that they're doing and why they're doing it. And so anytime, you know, any leader,
particularly on campus, if you have an opportunity, first of all, stop into the vet center, meet the
director of veterans affairs, and one of the things, check out who's also typically hanging there,
if there is like a lounge or a place for the veterans, because you'll be fascinated, I think,
to hear their stories why they're there and what they're doing. And what is it? Ask the question,
what would make the, and again, the transition, you know, whether it's, you know, you've been overseas
for this amount of time, you've come out of a conflict, but now, you know, let's ask those
questions because they matter and take those students' perspectives very seriously and treat
that office of veterans affairs with just as much respect and acknowledgement as you can.
Thank you very much, Tim. That was fantastic. Good show. Unfortunately, I storm over Johnny.
We've lost him for the remainder of this episode, but I want to say to you, Tim and to Johnny,
thank you so much for coming on your own show. I always appreciate it so much because here on
the producers' choice show, we're nothing without great guests like you guys.
Oh, Jacob, I really, every, every week to be invited on my own show is just something when I see
that invitation, I'm like, oh my gosh, here I am again, being invited on my own show. And I'm so
happy to be able to do it. Tim, it's something that a lot of hosts don't get to experience being
invited on to their own show to be a guest. And I just want to do that for you.
I got to, I got to wonder Jacob too is like how many other hosts of their own show ever get
invited to be a guest on their own show. I'm going to maybe put out there that Jacob and, you know,
the chairman of the board producer, producer's choice, inviting the hosts to their own show.
I have a feeling you might be one that stands out as maybe one of the only producers' choice
hosts that invites guests. Tim, you're spiraling out of control on this last part of the show.
Oh, I just want, I just want to point out how special you are, Jacob.
Thank you very much. And as somebody who's been broadcasting for a long time myself, I know
that it is way more fun to be a guest on somebody's show than to have to create your bullet point
list and plan out a program. You just show up. Hey, what show starts in four seconds? Yeah,
I just sat down. Whatever. You're the host. I'm the guest. Let's just do it. That is how it goes.
But we've got time for this last thing and you and I are going to do it. Let's go 60 seconds.
We're going to say a quick shout out to a vet here on Veterans Day week. I'm going to go first
because I'm the host and I get to control everything with this magic board. I want to say, hey,
my two grandpa's Jim and Dave, both veterans, Navy and Air Force. Thank you for the service.
Much appreciated. I always enjoy the stories that I've heard from your time in the service. And
to all our veterans out there listening today and to the families of veterans, happy veterans day.
And now you, Dr. Tim. Hey, to my cousin Ray and my cousin Dave, their brothers, they, my cousin Dave,
Vietnam veteran, my cousin Ray, 24 years in the Marines, all the time. Thank you, too.
And really, really get to enjoy being your cousin, man.
Awesome. And on that, Tim, I think there's time for one thing.
Do you know the moment of Zen?
By now, we have reached a point in human history when the means of war have become so horrible
that they exceed any possible good that come out of using those means.
All right, everybody. Thank you for tuning in to producer's choice. Enjoy the show. Make sure you
hang out next. Oh, actually, the next day, Saturday, it's Tim and Johnny one full hour of busted
pencils and then come back the following week Monday. Oh, you know, it's home room Wednesday,
classes in session and holy crap. It will be Friday again before you know it for another producer's
choice. Check it out. Go to the civic media page. See us there. Apple podcast spotify busted pencils.com.
You know, Jacob, and here's what I got to point out, everybody. Please, everybody. Keep busted pencils.