double fisted Saturday one hour of your favorite blue collar scholars what I think I've heard that somewhere before yeah it's busted pencils fully leaded education talk educated educators talking education whoo it is a Saturday one full hour yeah you know and we we love everybody who's listening
on Saturdays or when you're downloading and listening you know in the evenings however it is but you know everybody in the uh what do you say the Wisconsin Michigan and Minnesota areas if you're in a car right now listening and you're going like who are these guys it's Tim, Johnny and Jacob
We're the busted pencils crew.
We're the educated educators talking education.
And you're going, well, what in the world?
Who would have a radio show about education?
What are you guys going to talk about bulletin boards and how to write stuff on the board and time out and pencil sharpening and bathroom breaks?
Oh, yeah.
You know, some of my favorite
things.
You never you never never know but actually I think you know hang on because I think you're gonna be pleasantly surprised at the angles that the three of us bring to what we call education largely public education Yeah, Johnny, you know school teacher Tim school teacher Jacob just a teacher of Tim and Johnny every
How often, Jacob?
That you guys need correction?
Almost never.
Man, never happened.
You guys are on it, especially today.
But, you know, I mean, yeah, we did our time in the classroom.
We taught.
Doing
the
time.
Future, future teachers, you know, and now a higher education.
Got a lot to talk about.
Lots of things going on.
A
couple of expired educators.
You
know,
on the counter.
I'm a little bit.
Yeah, don't don't go there because that starts to upset me when I start seeing people who were with me back in the days of Edinburgh University of Pennsylvania When I graduated with my elementary education degree in 1989, whoo.
Oh man back then.
Yes.
I had hair lots of it.
I
did not have hair like hair metal, but I had lots and lots of hair in 1989.
And now seeing my fellow alumni proclaiming retirement.
Wow.
Oh, I mean, Tim, honestly, I mean, I became a teacher at right at the turn of the century.
I love saying that right, right as you move into this current century.
And when we became teachers, Tim, this would have been true for your career as well.
Like, I mean, you could one by years.
And, you know, we're almost three decades, you're three decades into being an educator.
You know, I think I rounded the 27th year of being a teacher this year.
If you think about it, if I did that all continuously in Michigan where I started and I bought out my years, which I did.
I could technically be retiring soon, if not already.
Not that I'd be done doing the good work, but that's not unbelievable to think about him.
It doesn't mean you're old.
No, it's not that.
It's actually an acknowledgement or a recognition of the... I'll proclaim it and own it.
The stupidness of me not imagining that 35...
four years later would actually show up and that all of the advice of you know as you just said buying back your years staying consistent you know putting enough you know money away during yeah like you know when I decided to go quit teaching and go back to grad school those years of teaching that you know that money that was put away
That was good money to use to go back to grad school, you know, all those opportunities in here.
It is 34 years later and gone.
Well, Tim, you know, talking to a financial planner.
So when's your, when's your retirement window?
And I'm like, I think it's more like a very, very incredibly tight crack.
of what I'm sure because I, there's no window open in my future for retirement, but, um, with that anyway, see that everybody listening for the first time in your cars.
No, it was just to come.
Hey, you should listen to busted pencils because, uh, we're, we're depressed and, uh, we need to talk some stuff out.
So if you want to hear, if you got some stuff to talk out, join us every Saturday.
Every Saturday, just understand Tim's going to lament and vent and, you know, no, but these are the things.
So, you know, we're talking about it's like education work, what does it mean to work 35 years off quickly, it goes.
And as we point out all the time, though, when we can, you know, we are massive advocates of public education, because if you've listened or go back, subscribe and download a bunch of episodes.
you will hear continuously that we see public education as the bedrock foundation of American democracy.
And once you understand public education is that important, you can understand why, my goodness, they only have a one hour show on Saturdays devoted to the foundation of American democracy.
Hey, that's what we're saying though.
But you know, occasionally,
We can bring it.
Johnny Lupinacci, Jacob chairman of the board.
So speaking of though, you know, we've talked a lot.
There's a lot going on.
Special higher education episode today.
That's colleges, you know, universities.
Yeah, whatever you want to think.
And I referred to it.
I'll go back.
I went to Edinburgh University of Pennsylvania.
Yes, of Pennsylvania, not.
Edinburgh, Scotland.
The borough I went to is actually spelled B-O-R-O, borough.
Now, if you're talking, yeah, it's interesting, right, Jacob?
But, you know, people are like, hey, you went to college in Scotland?
No, that would be the B-U-R-G-H Edinburgh, or Berg, right?
I don't understand why that's not Edinburgh, because I'm from Pittsburgh.
and it's got the same ending.
We don't say you're from Pittsburgh.
Over there, it's Edinburgh.
Edinburgh.
Well, anyway, went to Edinburgh University and, you know, kind of thinking about, well, what does that mean?
On LinkedIn, you would not know that I went to Edinburgh University.
In fact, if you check my LinkedIn profile, and I'll know if you're out there jumping on because I can see who's been, you know, kind of trying to
Scope me out on LinkedIn.
You'll see that I graduated from Penn West What's that all about?
We are gonna get to that today in the show because that's kind of what we're talking about like I thought I have a diploma that says Edinburgh University and now LinkedIn says I graduated from Penn West How did that happen?
Don't know but Johnny one of my favorite colleges in the nation
one of the most incredibly awesome public liberal arts colleges, New College in Florida.
Used to have thriving enrollments was just the place where, you know, if you were that kind of kid, you know, artistic, wanted to find a place to fit in, they were doing it at the New College.
you know if you've been paying attention to our episodes well what's going on at new college right now new stuff new stuff because um as we've talked about in the past well you know the the trump administration has put forward a compact
or essentially signing over any type of sense that you would want to have any direction of your college, that essentially promises millions and millions and millions of dollars if you agree to do higher education the way the Trump administration plans or wants you to do it.
We have seen college after college say no, no, no, this is not something we're interested in, but Johnny.
New College, one of two to step up and say, Hey, we love us a compact man.
You know, in fact, they were saying like when they were driving, they dropped the compact under the seat.
They needed a new one.
They got one.
Oh boy, the metaphors, bro.
The metaphors.
I mean, I'm catching up here, Tim.
But spell it out for our listener when you say they, you know, they were looking for a new compact at the new college.
New
college.
You got a new
compact because
what is a compact?
Well, I said the compact is the Trump administration is saying sign here will give you a ton of money, but everything you do now needs to be reflective of the values that the Trump administration.
legislation puts forward.
So in other words, and we've talked about this all the time, you know, very patriotic right wing, no lefty Marxist indoctrination, no DEI, none of that stuff.
And with that, they're going to take the money.
And Johnny, I got to say,
I think it has absolutely nothing to do with necessarily them being in alignment.
I
gotta say it has
everything to do with when that college was taken over by Christopher Rufo and Governor Ron DeSantis and then the president and lots of faculty replaced and put in the enrollment plummeted.
And you know, if you're running a college,
Enrollment is kind of like your bread and butter and there's no more enrollment at New College because nobody wants to go to New College anymore.
Signing on to the compact, this is just a lifeline and made me think though of going, how many other colleges out there
need a lifeline in today's day and age and what is our responsibility or not to institutions that are struggling because Johnny, you know, I did a little bit of research here and in the past five years alone, there have been
at least 84 nonprofit colleges have either closed, merged, or announced plans to do so.
And then actually from 2016, it's even worse if you're listening going, yeah, I know a college down the road that closed.
What's happening in higher education is.
Why are people not going to college?
I would explain very easily the new college Well, it's because people don't want to go to a right wing indoctrination institution Pointing that out just to kind of make a point, but you know, we make our bread and butter on enrollment What is this crisis of enrollment?
Are there too many colleges are there?
Not enough students are Families upset with too much indoctrination that they're not going is it better not to go to college nowadays because you know 20 bucks at Walmart an hour With or Taco Bell and you're getting funding to go back to school by working at Taco Bell Whoo the deck is stacked it seems against higher education We're gonna break that apart when we get back
I love, love Martin in.
Coming back.
Busted pencils, fully led education talk, educated educators.
Talking education, talking higher education, new college, Trump compact, closures, mergers, all those things.
So, Johnny, I'm gonna bring this back to the beginning of the show.
I went to- Oh,
I didn't know what beginning
you
were talking about.
Well, I mean, there were lots of
beginning.
I, you know, not the book of Genesis.
I don't, well, depending on where you believe 2000 election,
sorry, truly was the beginning of being a bad student today.
Distracting the, distracting the bus driver, Tim, drive the bus
in 1989.
I graduated from Edinburgh university.
And today, if you go to my LinkedIn profile, it will show you that I graduated from Penn West university.
What happened?
That is an example of what we're talking about.
Edinburgh University in the, you know, the time 60, 70s, 80s into the 2000s, anywhere between 6,000 to 9,000 residential undergraduates plus grad school.
That was the enrollment.
The enrollment today on the physical campus of Edinburgh University, and I was just up there even though it's supposedly called Penn West.
There are less than 2,000 students on that campus right now.
Penn West is also Clarion University.
Lots of my friends went to Clarion University.
Clarion University graduated the same thing between six and 8,000 students.
all the time.
California University, yes, I know it's weird that there's a California University in Pennsylvania, but there is California University.
And if you were going to be a shop teacher, that's where you went to college, man, because they showed you how to teach people how to cut wood there.
Another 6,000, 9,000 students all the time.
Those three institutions were always carrying, you know, roughly, what?
18,000 to 20,000 students all the time.
Total enrollment between those three institutions is less than 5,000 students right now.
And so that declining enrollment forced the PASHI, the Pennsylvania Higher Education System to say,
We have to do something because these three institutions are not sustainable as independent institutions.
And there was a merger of those three institutions that are now called Penn West University.
That's what we're talking about here, Johnny.
And for people who are out there saying, oh my God, you mean like what's happening with some of the small Wisconsin colleges?
That's exactly what we're meaning.
You mean like, what happened to Cardinal Stretch?
Yeah, for you, Milwaukee.
That's exactly Northland College, if that rings the bell.
Mm hmm.
That's what happened.
What is it?
John, I'm going to just put a question.
How can an institution that used to hold that carry, say, 6,000 students, why now less than 2,000?
How did how did how do you imagine that happened?
I mean, all right, all right, this is going to maybe not be the most popular response because I hold empathy for the closure of these schools, the merging, the change that's going on.
And I mean, I think it's a growing change.
We're just, even though we're deep in it, in the places you've talked about, Tim, you know, for the better part of the country, you're, you know, we're in the beginning stages of a real restructuring of higher ed that's happening everywhere.
And there are some key contributing factors.
One of them, you know, being just less college age students until you've talked about the increased, like, you know, student debt, there's not a myth, you know,
it's
sort of a bust at this point.
Like we know the trap of it and it's not financially responsible in many cases to take on, you know, lifelong debt.
You know, that's not necessarily commensurable to career pay and things like that.
And I get into the ethics of that.
I think it's a, you know, an unethical move on the part of government.
I think it's an unethical move on the part of public education and higher education sense.
But Tim, also this is going to be, you know, I'm empathetic, but I'm going to be a little bit firm and strong-handed about this.
This restructuring is long overdue.
Oh, and I've said it many times.
We've talked about it.
The business model mapped onto education generally doesn't fare well for this kind of thing.
In a, in a sense saying that like when you create a competitive model, right?
And you are market based or market driven, right?
You are susceptible to a lot of things like, Hey, shocker, the market.
So, so.
I'm not, you know, like I'm against this.
I, you know, I, my whole lifetime, I've been a big fan of public institutions from, you know, all the way from preschool through higher ed, uh, because I think they ought to be a function of our public good accessible.
And I know when I say free at the point of access, I don't think that it means free, but affordable, like really accessible.
And I
think our community college system in this country has made, maintained that.
through eras of, you know, of being seen as less than.
And I'm going to come back to this where I think a lot of people in education or schooling specifically are responsible.
The narrative became, you're successful if you go to college, right?
And then in particularly, you're more successful or better at what you do if you go to prestigious colleges.
expensive colleges or there's a particular right of passage culturally or growth that are your college years that are you know packaged and marketed in this you know is four to five year state of university that oh by the way it's going to cost you an upwards of 100 grand or so but don't worry you can put that on loan and pay it back over the course of you know they don't say your entire lifetime but you know in a sense
We marketed a product that the gig is up on.
It's not appropriate for everyone.
In fact, the model, as it currently exists, doesn't work for most.
And I'll get back into that, Tim, when we come back, because I know I dropped a little bit of a bomb there on that one.
But we'll come back to it.
So pencil busters, thanks for staying with us on this fine Saturday afternoon.
See you when we get back.
That hits hard.
Busted pencils, fully leaded, education talk, educated educators, talking education.
Dr. Johnny Lupinacci, Jacob, chairman of the board, made Dr. Tim Slecker higher education.
If you were listening, you know, right before, boy, Johnny Lupinacci just tore higher education anew.
Wait, okay, but I
mean speaking
truth.
Okay, but but I want What about the fact that?
Okay, I asked you why Edinburgh, which is now Penn West that always had 6,000 students can can't now get 2,000 students Are you telling me that the reason that is is because
As you said, the gig is up.
Students have said, nope, I ain't gone.
It's too expensive.
I'm not going there.
I would push on that a little bit.
Not that I totally disagree with you because everybody knows where I'm at.
But there are, Johnny, simply, there are less kids.
They're graduating classes, particularly for me here in the Northeast.
in Pennsylvania, right?
And starting this year and continuing for at least the next 10 years, the local high schools here will be graduating fewer and fewer students over the next 10 years so that you could potentially see a 25% enrollment decline in high school graduates.
And so colleges are competing.
for less students.
And we talked about this off the air.
You know, they're going like, how bad is it?
Penn State University, everybody knows about Penn State.
I was there for 10 years geographically dispersed, one university geographically dispersed.
There wasn't a geographic location in Pennsylvania where you couldn't get a Penn State education.
And now
the closure of those, you know, people called them branch campuses, whatever, they are closing rapidly because there aren't students.
Is that the business model or is it a function of decline of numbers?
I mean, a little of both, Tim.
I mean, I would love to say, Oh, it's just a matter of encouraging these, you know, young families to procreate more.
And then, you know, we'll have more kids coming in and go into college.
But I think that's in part some of the, some of the radical dips we're seeing right now, but the trend isn't to bounce back to say where it was in the golden era of just.
Unquestionably, there's this many people turning 18.
They're about to go to college, right?
It's just those numbers are down.
They might come up a little bit, but it's a changed world.
It's also a really different market to come back to that.
Like not that I'm a big fan of, you know, market ideology, but it's real and we're subject to it.
You know, there are more options than ever for young people and not even young people, anyone who wants to go to school.
to shop for the appropriate product they want to participate in.
I mean, this is both a good and a bad thing.
It can be seen as, remember we talked about this the other day, like to never understand things in absolutes, but seriously, this is one of those messy problems that we got to embrace in a democracy and navigate and redefine ourselves and understand.
And I believe that's happening in institutions, like especially the ones you've named and Tim, you're part of it.
at
your
institution and all of us working in higher ed are in these conversations.
How are we listening to and, and, you know, chewing the fat on the realities that yes, there are less numbers, but also it's a very different world in terms of both market options, but also, you know, the cost of going to school versus, you know, the experience you get or the training or the education.
You'll also have increased early college credits being obtained by high school students.
And what I think is really innovative partnerships with our public school K12 systems, especially, you know, grades nine through 12, but at the same time, as we're launching and deep into those programs, you got to adjust, right?
You got to know.
Hey, if there are these, you know, multiple options for say, I'll just pick a career becoming a pharmacist or becoming a nurse or becoming a carpenter or being, you know, in construction management and, you know, being like a site, a director of projects
on
site or a civil engineer, there are multiple options for people interested in those careers.
More so, I would argue than ever.
And
maybe
I'm wrong.
Maybe there will be a dip in an adjustment.
But when I say it's the market, Tim, I mean like at a certain point, we can compare it to like food.
If there are, you know, 250 burger places and two pizza places.
Those two pizza places are probably doing pretty good.
And pretty soon there's going to be more pizza places.
And then, you know, there's sort of this market philosophy that like things, the markets balance things out.
I'm not the biggest fan of that for public education.
I think we've established that through many of shows.
But in that system, which we're in, we're in that market adjustment phase where it's like, Hey, there are so many, some are good quality.
Products just like I might go get a bad pizza So I got to do my research and figure out what kind of pizza I want and what options there are for me to get that pizza a cost of The pizza, you know what it does for me in terms of how do I do I care for it?
Does it give me good?
You know nutrition those kinds of light things I mentioned are similar when you're thinking about where am I going to go to school?
Does it fit my schedule?
Can I afford it?
you know, is it accessible for me from where I'm at?
Do I need to move?
What are all the different things that factor into the decision to enroll and complete a degree anywhere?
And there are so many options.
And this is where I'm kind of being hard on many institutions, Tim.
Education, higher education especially, is kind of last to the re-envisioning.
They
would just stick their head in the sands and say, it's always been this way for hundreds of years.
And nostalgia and all these things.
And I get it.
I do, man.
I love me some old school college experience.
I'm part of a university that I think has an amazing education at it and balances the new with the old school and the tradition.
But I know it's got to change.
And
I don't think that's
necessarily a bad thing, but it's something we've, many of us professors sometimes have a trend of putting our heads in the sand over, you know, and just saying, well, well, just we'll increase tuition to make up for low enrollment.
Well, it's sort of like, you know, robbing Peter to pay Paul, right?
Because like now you've, you've filled that gap temporarily by raising your tuition because you have lower students.
But now you've priced yourself out of
the other
options, and pretty soon you have even less students.
So there's a lot of thought that has to go into this.
And I think I'll be honest about it.
I do believe not everyone, but by and large, higher education is sort of like a little bit tardy to the conversation.
Tardy to the conversation.
You put this out there.
I got to first, though, address one thing that I fully disagree with you on.
I've never met a bad pizza.
In my dorm... I have to agree, man.
I
love even the worst
pizzas.
In my dorm room at Edinburgh University, in my little toaster oven, a piece of white bread and a little ketchup on there and put a little Velveeta cheese on that and melt it.
That was good pizza, man.
Jacob, I know you're thinking you want some of that, right?
I want some of your delicious Velveeta dorm room pizza, Tim.
I'm thinking back to middle school and even that terrible square pizza they gave us, uh, what made of whatever government mandated ingredients we got was still good because it was pizza.
We look forward to that every week.
So yeah.
Damn.
Yeah.
Darn right.
But okay.
Yeah.
They've been late.
And so you're talking about innovation.
The other thing too, let, let's also be critical where we need to put some criticism when you're talking about American higher public.
education.
The amount
of money that has been allocated to again supplement not make higher education free but supplement so that if you're a resident of the state it should be a bargain to go to your state public higher ed institution and in fact it used to be people would talk about going like I paid tuition by you know working in the campus dining hall and you know
doing a summer job and they could pay tuition to get a state university education.
That doesn't happen anymore.
And that's not because institutions overly raised their prices on students, but the amount.
of government contribution has declined so incredibly that public institutions to adjust to make bank and and I will say a lot of that was calculated and planned to defund public education and this is a you know if you're again if you're a brand new person out there and you're still hanging with us defunding public education is an attack on democracy and that was definitely one of the contributors
factors to making colleges unaffordable.
But I want to go on the innovation.
Yeah, you're right, Johnny, because look, and we've done a couple shows now, particularly on the technological changes and the kids and the access to information that they have.
Why?
And this is now, I'm going to be hard on faculty in colleges.
If you are still standing up every Monday, Wednesday and Friday from 10 to 1050, talking at students about the things you know that you think they need to know because only you know it, expect enrollment decline because the kids can get that information, they can learn it better.
And that was never a good model of teaching and learning.
However, Johnny, in the market,
that where knowledge was actually precious and not able to be got at, you could charge to get access to somebody to talk to you about what they know.
That's changed.
How do colleges adapt?
The other one I want to address too.
Man, it's a big show.
But you know what?
You got a really
big show
tonight.
To get a Google certification right now.
Less than $1,000 and the payoff
with a Google certification, six figures, six figures.
And there you go, right?
And saying like, well, why would you go to college?
I think that's an important question.
All of these closings, all of these mergers, yes, less students, lack of all these things, but I'm going to put this out there for the institutions, the challenge.
You want to reverse course?
This is your pivot moment.
You heard it first.
They are busted pencils, coining the term pivot moment.
What are you going to do now to change direction, understanding what Johnny and I have laid out here to make yourselves relevant, to make yourselves
useful to becoming part of the community so that the culture of people can start pushing back and saying, all of these bad things I've heard about colleges, not my local institution.
My local institution does things that are for the access for the community.
Make that pivot move.
What would a pivot move look like, Johnny?
That would be also acknowledging that, you know what, while there are less 18 year olds,
There are a whole lot of people in our communities that would welcome open access to education in so many different ways that a higher ed institution can do that I think what you're pointing to, a lot of them refuse to do because that's just not what we do, Johnny Lupinacci.
Man, this is going quick.
It's busted pencils.
It's fully leaded.
It's education time.
Education, educated educators talking education.
We'll be right back.
I know it goes quickly.
It's busted pencils.
Fully led education talk.
Educated educators talking.
Education.
Saturday.
Love.
All of the people in Wisconsin.
In Michigan.
In Minnesota.
Listening.
Welcome.
Yes.
We have a whole show about education.
Lots going on.
Higher education, though, big topic today.
Lots of closures.
I'm sure wherever you are, you've heard of or seen a college somewhere either merging or going out of business.
Let's be honest.
Right now, we don't say college is God of business.
We say they close.
This institution will be closing at the conclusion of the May, 2026 semester.
They're going
out of
education.
They're no longer educated educators who will be trying to talk education anymore.
And I really do.
tend to see this, I may be not nearly as negative as I was during the breaks, I see this as a golden opportunity for higher education to really step into this moment to make itself so uniquely compelling, so powerful and
And that's where I kind of put this is to go, it stinks.
And I will tell you from personal experience, it stinks to be at an institution with enrollment declines.
I'm going to leave it at that.
It stinks.
I'll give more.
It hurts.
It's painful.
It's depressing.
It's demoralizing.
And I wanted to say, what if it doesn't have to be that way?
And if it doesn't have to be that way, what would an institution of higher education do to make it so that it's not that way?
I guess that's my whole point of the show, Johnny Lupinacci.
Yeah, Tim, I mean, I think it's a worthwhile conversation, not only why we're having it, but why I think pretty, I mean, I can't imagine any institution of higher ed not having this conversation.
So while it's painful, it's real.
And, you know, out of those things comes growth.
So I think it's also, you know, like it's a Dickens moment.
It's, you know, it's the, it's the worst of times.
It's the best of times.
Right.
So it's kind of one of those things where like, Oh man, this really stinks.
But also out of it, you know, we're going to, we're going to really adjust and come up with something pretty great.
And
I believe in that because most of the people I know in higher education, although there are some outliers and some deniers, just like in anything,
You
know,
I think most of the people genuinely care about delivering a really good product in that sense, being like, you know, a great education for our students.
And they see where that's not necessarily always happening in this current moment.
We've talked about it in here, like new generations of learners.
new
ways of understanding the role of higher education and career preparedness or preparation for being contributing members of our great society, right?
I mean, these are
all important things that I believe a majority of the stakeholders or the people impacted by this painful moment in higher ed, including students and families are coming together to really figure out what's it going to look like going forward?
Right?
How is this?
How do we take this opportunity to really, you know, kind of collectively figure out how things ought to be, right?
Because in some ways that kind of change, unfortunately has to be a little bit forced.
And we're not, I believe we're well into that moment.
So
appreciate you bringing it to the Saturday show.
Cause it gives us a little more time to mull it over and talk about it, but
I, you know, I think it's also a nod to all you people out there listening, you pencil busters
who
work higher ed, right?
Who are either higher ed leadership, administration, faculty, or you yourself a student.
And one of these great programs that we often are referring to, you know, you're doing that hard work.
So keep it up.
And, and on the other end of this, we're going to have something really great.
So
let's
keep talking about it.
Keep sharing those stories, those battle stories from the.
Intense conversations of what things ought to be, right?
And we know what is,
what's
exciting for me, Tim.
Tim and Johnny, I think part of it here, this whole conversation we've had is we're looking at the future.
We're thinking about how these big changes coming are going to cause a lot of pain, a lot of difficulty.
They also create a lot of opportunities.
And I think part of the responsibility for a show like ours and for people in education is to make sure that the change is worth having and that we come out in a better place on the other side.
Wow,
Jacob,
you should have been talking the whole darn show.
That was all I had.
I saved it.
And Johnny said pencil buster, not pencil, neck to geek.
Just in case you're out there.
But
now I
don't even know what that means.
Now it's time for your moment of Zen.
The future is an infinite succession of presence and to live now as we think human beings should live in defiance of all that is bad around us is itself a marvelous victory.
Hey, thanks for listening to busted pencils broadcast today.
Remember to grab great podcasts, chalked, full of more fully leaded education talk on Apple podcasts, Spotify, and of course on the civic media website or at busted pencils.com.
And don't you dare be late for a homeroom on Monday and make sure you catch next week's class in session on Wednesday.
And you can always find us Friday for a busted pencils producers choice.
And just like today, folks, you can tune in on Saturdays, 3 p.m.
Central Time, across all the Civic Media Network stations for the Busted Pencils broadcast to get one hour of your favorite blue collar scholars, Tim and Johnny, and keep busting pencils.