.
.
Double fisted right there man Saturday plus the pencils fully
let it education talk educated educators talking education
education, Dr. Johnny Lupinachi, Jacob chairman of the board
of me, Dr. Tim Slecker and Fellas, you know,
doing John and Gordy again this past Thursday morning and
John was, he's like, I, I just love that educated
educators talking education line. He's like, I just love it.
You know, it's good to know we've got a fan.
Wow. Yeah.
We've got a few more. We got Jacob, the producer. We got Jacob's
grandpa. I was going to say it. Jacob's grandfather.
We got that. We got a few. We got Matt Damon's mom. Right?
We got.
We got your colleagues and your colleagues in Finland.
Absolutely. The fans are listening.
You know, we've got a few. We've got a couple there, Tim.
You know, let's sell yourself short.
Now, you're brain with all that negative self talk.
I just, I was making fun because I, I really enjoy Thursday
mornings getting on with John and Gordy.
And actually, Johnny Gordy was in Chicago for the protest.
And Catherine Lake was guest hosting.
And got to, you know, hang out with Catherine for a little
bit. And Johnny, I reminded her that without Catherine Lake,
civic media and busted pencils and, you know, where we are today,
wouldn't have happened without Catherine Lake.
She was the one.
Agreed.
She's like, you guys are like the car talk of education, man.
We got to get you, we got to get you on more often and get you
some more, you know, what do you want to say?
We got to get there on a call.
Okay, let's see what you guys will talk about.
We got to get ready to put a little bit of a light on what we do
here at Busted pencils.
So it was fun hanging out with Catherine, fun hanging out with
John glad to know that they love the educated educators talking
education.
And with Tim with two guys with this much hot air as we have all
it took was somebody with a hot air balloon.
To come by and say, hey,
she did, she did pump our tires.
Hey, and get some confidence and say, you know, keep talking
about education because you guys say it so well.
It's the bedrock of democracy, right?
And we have to be if we're not talking about what's happening
in our schools.
And we're having a political discussion about strengthening
democracy.
We're missing an important key facet of that.
And we said, look, you're speaking our language here.
That's what we're talking about.
So, hey, the more we got together and talked, especially
with Catherine, on the more the magic happened, hey?
Yeah.
Yeah, everybody, you know, I said, I love doing the podcast
drops Monday Wednesdays and Friday love making sure that
there's a full one hour Saturday show.
But I don't think we would be.
I don't think we'd be able to do what it is we do had Catherine
not said, you guys are doing five days a week live call in
radio for a while.
And boy, that was.
Let's be honest, that was fun.
But man, challenging to do.
But as you say, you know, kind of like a thrown into the
crucible there and.
Learned to, you know, kind of rolled with it and take
things in.
Well, you know, and here we are, the professional broadcasters
that we are right now.
Everybody out in civic media.
And listening is like, my goodness, I thought you guys were
real pros.
Yeah.
You know, come on.
We're just some educated educators talking education.
And now that we've added Jacob chairman of the board to the
mix, whoo, whoo.
Watch out, Jacob.
What do you, you know, I mean, you got big plans for us,
don't you?
I've got a lot of big plans.
I don't want to say anything.
Okay, but.
Huge.
Let's just say we might get you guys with Ben Affleck.
I'm just putting it out there.
It's a possibility.
Whoa.
Okay.
Now by that, I mean, I'm going to send him an Instagram DM and we'll
see.
I probably have.
But for the folks out there, I want them to get hyped about
possibilities down the way.
I mean, he's definitely an educated guy who likes to talk about
education.
So I'm sure.
Yeah.
Great conversation.
We need to expand our pool of potential guests.
We can get anybody.
Get everybody in the pool.
Let's go.
Get your charty.
Jacob's throwing.
I don't know.
As long as long as there's no peeing in the pool though.
Then I'm not going there.
Well, there we go.
Well, but you know, we do have that pool though that if that
happens, it turns purple.
So, um, you know, you've got the gotcha pool.
Yeah, we got the gotcha pool.
You know, that pool that they tell you it was a little kids
like if you pee in this pool.
Um, well, speaking though, and speaking about peeing in pools.
And also speaking about just getting thrown into the
crucible of things.
You know, I kind of remember getting thrown into the crucible
of school.
Oh, at the right young age of almost turning.
I think I was probably five.
I don't think I was quite yet.
The appropriate age for.
For for what we're talking about today.
Well tangent to what we're talking about today.
But Tim, this week, we've kicked a story around a little bit here
and we're talking about just the pencils.
It's certainly been mulled over in the media.
And I bet you even like John and Gordy and other shows
have have, you know, tickled this story a bit.
Have touched on what's happening in New York with kindergarten.
Not just any old kindergarten though, because in New York.
Many, you know, for all you New Yorkers list, then especially
in New York, like the Matt Hattoners, right?
You know about that you start pretty much before you even
have kids in New York.
And it's not it's like this in other places too.
There are certain elite preschools and early year education
classrooms to be specific in New York.
There's a guy picking on what's called gifted kindergarten
education.
So Tim, I thought maybe we should just talk about that.
I think we should just do things happening in New York
because it's not only in New York City that kindergarteners
are increasingly evaluated, but there's this whole thing
where we start sorting and calling kids in particular gifted.
And I'm not picking on you if you're out there and say,
hey, wait a minute, but I'm gifted.
You know, don't worry.
We're not here to bully you.
Johnny was got their own unique contributions and gifts.
But we're all gifted on busted pencils.
Technically by definition though, if we're going like street
level definition, I agree.
Like we all bring unique characteristics to the conversation.
I'm bringing hot air.
But the whole point of this, those there is an operational
definition for, you know, some districts call it talented
and gifted or extraordinary talent or gifted programs accelerated
in the early years of the year.
And I think that's the only way to get that out of this
program.
This is another term for these particular tracks that start as early
as preschool on kindergarten.
And it's been in the headlines this week.
So I thought, hey, let's, let's chop it up a bit.
Let's talk about what's happening in New York.
And then too, you know, our early memories of, you know,
testing or not testing into talented and gifted programs.
We've got some scars with us into that conversation.
But really, we've been talking about testing, Tim.
We've been talking about that.
And this, this story runs tangent to it.
So what thought?
Well, let's get into it.
Get into it.
Put it, put it out there.
Okay, what we're talking about is, yes, in New York City.
New York City.
New York City.
There's a mayoral race going on who's going to be the next mayor
of New York City.
And then we're going to be the next mayor on the next
election.
Yeah.
You know, and so, ran a mom, Donnie.
Has seems to be, is going to be the Democratic nominee for mayor having
to say 90s.
Sorry, Jacob.
I had a, you know, back to the future moment or something like that.
Hold on, Tim.
It's got to go, got to go crank up his Model T.
Andrew, Andrew, Andrew Cuomo.
Yes.
Is not going to accept the Democratic defeat and is going to run as an independent Republican,
not exactly sure.
But however, you know, so around the mom, Donnie, one pretty decisively has a lot of support
running as a Democrat and has, you know, also pointed out that he's actually a Democratic
Socialist.
If anybody wants to know what that means, Bernie Sanders is our probably our best example
of a Democratic Socialist.
We're not going to do a whole lot of.
Yeah.
AOC.
AOC.
Yeah.
AOC too.
Yeah.
Champion.
I like what she champions.
I like those ideas.
Yeah.
But mom, Donnie is, you know, pointing out some, some things that people are really excited
about.
However, his proposal is, Johnny, to do away with the gifted and talented kindergarten
program in New York City.
And you were.
New York City.
I'm looking to that that.
Wow.
Why would he do that?
And boy, there's like so many different ways to talk about this because it's, is it testing?
Is it right?
And as you pointed out, I mean, some people prepare their kids.
They're just like, we know, not only we're not going to do that, but I'm not going to find a way out of this.
We're, like, really, really.
But we're not going to be, you know, a neo-nathalie to get ready to be accepted into the gifted kindergarten program in New York City because it's like a major lottery win.
To get into this.
Yeah.
Kind of things were put it will set your future up in ways, yeah, you know, in ways that are kind of incredible.
So this is one of the program proposals that isn't going over well with New York City liberal elites.
New York City is again, so the liberal elites do not like this program pointing it out there.
So I don't like it either, Tim.
I'm just going to go on a limb here and with my fellow New Yorkers out there.
I'm, you know, if you're awful about this, you got to take a closer look.
I'm against it.
So I'm excited to get it.
I mean, I'm against what do you get the gifted programs?
I'm a big fan of acts in these things.
So I'm kind of excited about seeing this movement in this conversation for a number of reasons, but I'm glad that it's happening, especially in New York.
I mean, I think it's a great place to just drop the hammer on this, you know, it's like, like if we're going to end a practice that I think, you know, I hate to pick on it, but my entire time teaching.
I didn't read, I was never really a big fan of these programs, these tracks.
So we could get into it, but no, I love, I especially, I'm not a fan for, you know, any determinant factor at age five, six years old, you know, other than, do you know where to put the pee yet or not?
Right.
Those kinds of things.
Not in not in the full.
The eat trans and glue.
No, okay, good. Are you learning alphabet you like to sing songs and, you know, you're learning to get along with others.
Great.
Let's get together with other people around that same age and some of the best teachers in the country, those kindergarten teachers out there.
And we learn to learn together.
So I'm a big, I'm not a huge fan of the increased testing and sorting mechanisms that are pretty closely wed to these talented and gifted programs.
So I'm excited to hear that we're thinking about giving them the acts places.
Wow.
Johnny, but not you drop in a hammer.
Absolutely.
Man, and an bowling ball.
You know, right out there.
I got to tell you though, if you're wondering where Tim and Jacob are on this, well, when we get back, we're going to talk to Jacob, chairman of the board.
When we get back.
We're going to get back.
Choo, choo.
Wow.
Ooh.
Because they're back already.
Yep.
Educated educators.
Talking education.
Oh.
Because they're back already.
Yep.
Educated educators.
Talking education.
Well, you know what that means, busted pencils.
Civic media Saturday.
If you're listening in your car.
If you're listening on the radio.
Wow.
Ooh.
Because they're back already.
Yep.
Educated educators.
Talking education.
Well, you know what that means, busted pencils.
Civic media Saturday.
If you're listening in your car.
If you're listening on your radio.
Somewhere.
You know, we appreciate it.
Downloaders.
We love that you also are participating whenever you can.
It is.
Yeah.
The one hour show.
Gifted and talented.
We're talking about New York City.
Johnny.
Go ahead.
New York City.
There it is.
Yes, that place.
And, and the, the Democratic nominee for mayor.
Zoran Mamdami.
Is proposing to do away with the elite kindergarten gifted program.
You got to hear where Johnny Lupinati was.
He's like, good for him, man.
We need to do that.
I love it.
I love it.
I love it.
And I said, well, you know, you haven't heard.
I'm drinking the Kool-Aid on this one, man.
You haven't heard from Tim and Jacob.
And I was like, okay, before me, how about Jacob chairman of the board?
Jacob, what are you thinking about this?
And, you know, how's this sitting in your bird's nest?
Well, over here in my nest, Tim.
I think it's easy for you and Johnny to be critical because you guys were not talented or gifted as children.
For me, I was one of these talented gifted children.
I went to a cool magnet elementary school.
And then I got invited to the gifted accelerated elementary school in my city where I'm from.
And the same thing in middle school, I was accepted into the gifted accelerated thing.
Now, I will say that I turned down both of those opportunities because I liked my friends.
So I don't know if they actually work.
I went there briefly and then I said, I'm okay.
I like the normal people back at the normal school.
So you dropped out of giftedness.
I did. Well, no, I didn't drop out of being gifted.
I'm still awesome.
But I'm more of a working man's guy.
So I stuck with my blue collar scholar crew back at the real school.
And so for me, this proposition, I like the idea of not having these,
these cloistered clusters of the gifted.
I think everybody should be together.
That's the name of this episode, cloistered clusters.
Oh, my God.
But maybe you could say, well, that's, that's all well and good for you to say that after you had these opportunities and squandered them.
Don't take it away from other people.
But I think overall, it's, it's good for everybody to be in one good public school.
That's my okay.
Yeah.
So bigger broader issue here.
So as Johnny said, yes, I'm not going to say where this is happening again.
But gifted and talented.
You know, I know some people who would criticize gifted and talented at any age,
because typically the, the assessment made to determine that has largely been some form of a numerical standardized test.
And we've come a long way in recognizing that children people have all kinds of ways to demonstrate intelligence giftedness.
In fact, you know, we had Howard Gardner on the show a few months back talking about multiple intelligences.
And, you know, and so when you say somebody's gifted, how do you make that determination?
So any of these gifted programs, if you're gifted advocate out there, you know, definitely leave some voicemails for us and some emails because we, we gladly like to talk to you.
But I'm always just, that's my biggest issue is is the, the narrowness of the determination.
And then though, too, when we talk about Johnny, you pointed out five year olds and actually four years old in, in a lot of kids, because they're rushing to get them in.
And so a lot of parents will enroll their kids at age four, if they qualified can a four year old demonstrate giftedness on, on some form of a standardized assessment.
And is that a valid score? And if a four year old can't score gifted, is that really an assessment that they're not gifted because when they develop a little bit more, a few years later, all of a sudden, holy crap, we miss them.
And so do they get out there?
I think there's a whole bunch of issues here, you know, gifted and talented as even a specialness that certain kids should get this extra attention, more opportunity, however you want to describe whatever it was, you gifted and talented people got when you left the classroom and left the rest of us blue collar kids to hang out and listen to teachers drawn on.
But kindergarten, that's another issue that I think is incredibly important to point out that I'm kind of really skeptical of identifying any four and five year old as gifted and I'm even more skeptical of saying to kids they're not at that age.
The proposal here, Johnny, actually, when we dig in deep just to make sure that we're accurate is is actually to only do away with the kindergarten gifted program to face back in though a third grade acceptance into gifted programs in New York City.
And so, you know, I think we got some issues is it too young to make a determination at that age, the blowback as we say the liberal elites in New York City are absolutely up and arms by this.
See this has an affront and i'm going to point out the go of course they do because this is a privilege that they have for so long i'm kind of hoarded and taken up for themselves and as you pointed out, how is it that you determine somebody's gifted and kindergarten.
Well, there's usually a lot of extra resources that parents bring in birth until the age of four and five that a lot of other kids don't have the opportunity to have so there's a whole big issue there.
Jacob, sorry you dropped out of giftedness, I never had the chance because I failed that test and you know more though man lots to go on can't wait for Johnny Lupin on to come back and really tell us.
How horrible giftedness is will be right back.
And I love coming into third segment here because it's where we get to really drone on busted pencils fully let it education talk educated educators talking education, New York City.
New York City mayoral candidate, so around mom, dummy has proposed eliminating the gifted kindergarten or program in New York City we have gone all kinds of different directions talking about this.
However, so if you do away with it, then what would take its place and there was a point Johnny i was wondering if I can get your reaction to this saying okay if you're going to get rid of it then you need to level up the game for all kindergartners to make sure that every kindergartner in New York City.
There's every opportunity to demonstrate how awesome they are and then we may be consider letting you do away with the gifted program what do you think.
It's I like where you're going with that Tim, I think you know people are very reactive to Zoran's you know proposal here to cut like you said cut the gifted kindergarten programs.
Because I think if we look big picture you know his stance and policies proposed on education emphasize universal child care right and so he's pledged you know to really work hard towards a free universal child care system which would benefit all students and so.
You know, I think that early start those early interventions for any kid in New York are more important.
And arguably have a bigger impact than you know sorting and I like that you emphasize really the critique of the gifted kindergarten program isn't to you know end all gifted programs are end all accelerated instruction.
But just saying you know hey I don't think we should subject foreign five year olds to a single high stakes assessment right unfairly separates them at a young age right and so it the up like so then what do you do if you're not going to have these sorting mechanisms in place well then you got to have something where the standard comes up.
And I think that's there in the proposed you know policies primarily around universal child care and emphasizing public school funding like where well where is that going to happen in our public schools well who's paying for that the public right that's the whole social socialist Democrat platform right that's that idea here that you know there's a strong social responsibility of the government.
And I think that's not the job of the government that's the job of parents right and so parents aren't providing it.
Then that's on them shame on them and sorry kid that's what you get for being born where you're born.
So those are two very different distinct sets of beliefs a belief that no matter what you're born into school you know funded properly by government provides you with a base that gives you opportunities right that you can work in that you have a quality education.
And that starts early so universal child care.
But Tim you nailed it the critics right whether they're you know critics of the social responsibility of governments to fund schools or their critics even within that there we say like liberal critics that are saying wait at impacts our kids education right and your
trying to prioritize equity at the expense of students who need advanced instruction right AKA my kids powerful elite parent that has you know probably left leaning views when it's popular right and then and then public settings are like yes I am a good Democrat but not when it comes to you taking resources and away from the public
and taking resources and away from my kid and allocating them across other kids whose parents it's their responsibility for them right and there's a slippery slope into a shared critique so hey really great to offer offer our listeners you know we'll plug not not no sponsorship here in connection that would love to have a conversation with the folks that made this made the podcast I'm about to recommend there's a great podcast on NPR
right called nice white parents and it's about affluent parents in New York City and it's really telling to the power and the politics of public schools in New York City which have a long history even in the public school sector of not being so equitable but champion a message of equity.
So it's a great podcast called nice white parents it isn't only talking about white folks you know they do a great job of saying just this is more about affluent New York culture right that also has a strong tinge of whiteness to it historically here but you know really looks at well do we really care about kids or do we mostly care about our own kids
and those things get those things start to contradict when you look at things like hey we are going to invest in a public education system that provides you know a high floor for every single kid and I'll even pump Zoran's tires a little more here too and say his policies align in this spirit all the way through higher ed.
He's a strong advocate that like city university in New York CUNY our colleagues are there man I have friends who went to grad school there do an amazing work in education he believes that if you're a New York City kid right that that school should be free of tuition for you to attend and I know a lot of New Yorkers who believe that and I know some who are going to think not no way I had to pay my way through there so the next generation should also have to pay it's like hey hold on.
Right let's practice what we preach right if you believe in strong democracy you believe in educational equity you believe especially and and we'll go away from the higher ed example and back to children that kids should be given an opportunity to make the most of whatever situation they're in while then you do that through strong public school systems and and I like this idea that that the gifted kindergarten program.
You know let's let's get rid of that and in lieu of making sure every kindergarten or every preschooler or every young person has a great start can I ask I'm going to get Jacob sorry Tim do you want to go no no no okay here's my question well if we're in New York City and we've got the youngest Rockefeller and we've got little young Johnny Lupinachi the youngest Rockefeller if he thinks he's gifted or he's an elite he wants to go to a night school he can go to and over prep like Joe.
George Bush and his parents can pay for that but the gifted program is here to help a guy who doesn't have a lot of money get that same sort of treatment to go through the system is that not true or am I missing something on that I'm going to take a different spin on that for you Jacob and see if this makes sense with your question.
It only points out something that actually would you say okay wealth and what wealth can provide you you're absolutely right Jacob you know rich people have options they don't have to rely on the New York City public schools right but what's happened over time here with this New York City gifted kindergarten program it in and of itself has become its own kind of exclusive place.
For special people and special families that it's kind of gotten its own sense of whatever you know awesome prep school that you could go to getting accepted as a kindergarten to the New York City gifted program.
Maybe is just as good maybe even better than some of the more private elite schools but you know to point out how would you actually make kindergarten you know equitable what it's going to take funding and and first of all i'm going to point out and and make this some form of a speculation just in case i'm wrong but the amount of wealth that's concentrated in the.
Roughly 1,500 to 2,000 kids that get into gifted and talented kindergarten in New York City they probably have enough money to fully fund incredibly awesome kindergarten and so that it would be great for all public kids but i'm going to bet they would never want to do that because the reality is is that.
What makes this program the way it is and why people are so rough old is this because it was an exclusivity a special place that had kind of created its own sense of you know this is mine this is ours and you're taking away something special for us that actually gave our kids extended privileges.
And the reality is is that Johnny you're right what I care about is my kid and so i'm not going to fully fund equitable awesome education for all kids because then my kid would just be one of all kids and my kid ain't want all kids Jacob is that help.
I don't have any kids so I have no horse in this race what I could tell you doctor Tim is that as a incredibly gifted person myself i think that this treatment should be extended in as much as possible to all kindergartners and especially at those little the younger levels I think it's crazy that you would break people up like that kids should have a nice good standard of education.
Well here's here's the thing Tim even though i'm going to be you know more advocating for i'm not sure that these programs should exist at all.
Alright that's a little extreme in the case of New York City there you know there just is overwhelmingly strong evidence that you can't determine this yeah in kindergarten right so they're saying like that let's let's just put a pause on all these programs till third grade okay and you may be then they're saying like hey third grade there isn't a.
appropriate you know time in which you know the assessments i'm going to pluralize that so hopefully it's not just you know take this one test and here you go you're an accelerated program but the assessments say hey there's a need here for some accelerated learning for a group of students and they're going to be served in a different capacity and you know in this particular grouping.
And again i'm not a big fan of it that's probably controversy or even in a in a in a agree to disagree kind of way i could i could be wrong about this thing i'll admit that but what what seems to be you know consensus and we lean on that a lot here there we go is that you can't determine this in the kindergarten so no one's telling the parent you know that's against this say hey but my kids give
you know it's like well actually we don't necessarily know that in a very real way until maybe later in their educational career and they'll still have those opportunities ahead of them but for now like they're just kind of like all the other kids and keep doing the great work that you're doing because yep they know they're ABC is a little bit faster than maybe their neighbor does great let's get them all together keep them together for a few years and see what happens.
My neighbor you bring it up my neighbor Johnny Lupinachi you got a neighbor in New York City I got to tell you though you're talking about my kid and my kid Johnny is gifted and is special I don't know what are we going to do with all of these smart kindergarteners maybe we'll figure it out when we get back.
You guys thought there was an extra guitar that was Johnny Lupinachi come on oh yeah rip it through the scales true what's the pencils fully let it education talk educated educators talking education talking gifted education more specifically New York City kindergarten giftedness democratic nominee for mayor Zoran Mamdani is proposing to do away with the
gifted kindergartening man we've had a discussion kind of all over the place on this I'm going to guess though the between all three of us that we are really you know adamantly and very strongly saying like hold on kindergarten no we got to at least stop the sorting and give these kids a little bit more time to potentially develop mentally you know show some things
that maybe a four year old isn't showing but maybe when they're eight holy crap can I say that that's we all agree you can't tell if a kindergartener is gifted or maybe you can but maybe you can't know kids who will be gifted potentially is what we're saying how's that yeah I go along with that.
Okay leave the children alone Tim they're just trying to eat their paste and learn their letters we don't have to treat all the kindergarteners like Russian figure skaters and drill them from the time they're born into these perfect products yeah agreed let the youth be youths exactly what's it David Bowie and these children that you spit on you got come on nobody can
well I was hoping you could because you just said the weirdest part well yeah you know we're talking about changes and incredibly awesome song it was the ending quote of the breakfast club David Bowie the lyrics from changes these children that you spit on as they try to change their world come on our immune to your consultations there you go
yeah there you go right but you don't sound like David Bowie can you do you have I don't have a David I don't have a David Bowie voice no I can't I got a good neighbor voice but I don't have a David Bowie voice sorry about that before the changes there see Johnny's got that voice I know I yeah they're kids you know she said Jacob my God what are we doing if
if if anything yeah let's really take seriously childhood and and acknowledge that every four-year-old if if that's when they're
going to start kindergarten or five or deserves a gifted education regardless of what their standardized
test score might be later on in life because we're talking about early childhood experiences and there
is nothing in the research that says you get anything but benefit when you provide more and more opportunity the younger
than younger the kids are and you know early intervention it's a joy you you point about you point
out about this all the time it's it's an investment too I mean you know what yeah make kindergarten great again
there we go what do you guys think okay you know we talked about it when we talked about the importance
of Sesame Street and really great shows like that I mean all pours into our childcare system right and the more
we support caring about children I'll try to get those make kindergarten great again hats ready for the
next week so I'll see what we can do in the merchant department make kindergarten I don't that
doesn't come off like a maga or a maha doesn't really doesn't flow off the tongue so well oh I you know
no I I think the and Johnny to point out to like this happens too is that this will end up becoming
an issue for people that they're make their voting decision on and the reality is here's like you
want to be a great democratic citizen there isn't any politician who's going to tick every box for
you it's kind of looking at this because Johnny actually his proposal as you point out for early
childhood health care and things like that come on man I think you're right if he pulls that off
wow can you imagine the what they call kindergarten readiness can you imagine how many more
kids would be quote ready for kindergarten wow I don't know so much more though but you know what time
it is though Johnny it's time for your moment of sin you do things again and again and nothing
happens it requires patience but not a passive patience the patience of activism
thanks listgers for being patient with us today listening to the broadcast remember to grab great
podcast chocked full with all kinds of fully-ledged education talk on apple podcast spotify and of course
you can always find us at the civic media website or on our website bustedpensals.com and don't
you dare be late for a home room on Monday and make sure you catch next week's class session on Wednesday
and you can always find us on friday for producer Jacobs choice and just like today you can tune in
and listen to busted pencils broadcast at three p.m. central time across all the civic media network
stations for one hour of your favorite blue collar scholars to me and Johnny and keep busting petsals
you