Transcript

BustED Pencilsvania

Busted Pencils · Sat Aug 16, 2025

Yeah, I'm not going to be radio hoist, busted pencils, fully landed, education talk,

educated educators, tucking education, Dr. Johnny Lupinati, Jacob chairman of the board and me, Dr. Tim

Lecker, yes, Saturday, Saturday show across civic media. And yes, we know podcasters, you're downloading

and taking it wherever you can get it when you can get it. But you know, we love doing the Saturday

show and for anybody out there in their car. And Johnny now, you know, Wisconsin, Michigan and

Minnesota, people could be listening right now to busted pencils. And so welcome to the civic media

family. I think it's so exciting to recognize that, you know, civic media, it's vision, you know,

democracy, talk radio, not thrown stones, but, you know, talking factually about things, our

our neighbors, our community, our neighbor, you're on to it, man, you know, local radio refreshed.

You know, we're not here, they're telling you like not this show, telling you like regurgitating

news headlines or polarizing things. That's not happening on civic media, although you can't

get great news updates. You know, this is especially this hour, Tim, that we have this is talk is

educated educators, talk and education. It is back to school time officially, not like the back

to school sales we started seeing two months ago. I mean, teachers are in professional developments.

If you're a regular listener and you listen to the podcast drops, that's right. If you're new to us,

welcome, but you could grab podcasts drops on the civic media site three times a week, you know,

and then catch us on this broadcast. But we were talking this week with a rural superintendent.

He was awesome. We were talking about back to school a bit and the AI discussions and the

exciting things happening in his district. And you know, that's a regular conversation here,

busted pencils, Tim, but it is fall. We are back to school. Most teachers have set up their

classrooms or are doing that right now. Some students are already back in the classroom. I know

most of the places where people are listening from that happens after the holiday coming up

because we squeeze every last bit of summer out of, you know, our vacations as we can. Tim,

I was back in class this week. You were back in class and, you know, actually before the show,

you know, we chit chat a little bit. You were talking about, you know, like I set up a tent at

the farmer's market. I was like, holy crap, you've been growing food all this year and you're,

what I'm like, what are you selling? You're not selling anything. You're actually at the farmer's

market in a tent doing some good service, good deeds, strengthen in the community, Johnny, I mean,

tell us more. Well, Tim, I'm a big fan of local farmers markets because, you know,

I actually do grow food, although I'm not like actually a farmer, but that was my first entry point

into learning about local farmers markets, which I know listeners, they're everywhere out by you,

too. But these are, these are great places not only to make human connections, but to engage in

your community. And not like unlike many local farmers market, our local one, you know, has opportunities

for people in politics and local organizations, whether it's the brothers and sisters, big brothers,

big sisters club, YMCA, you know, just name a few in our local school districts and our reps.

You know, we get out there and have conversations with people, especially as we're getting back to

school. So yeah, man, this week we were outside, you know, setting up opportunities for kids to

grab school supplies, more just to, you know, touch base with families, introduce new teachers,

get them out in the community because a educator out there, you know, it's ever important to have

that connection to your town, to that connection to your local community, even if you don't live there,

per se, you know, to get out and not just be someone who you're, who the kids in your class see in

the classroom, but, you know, or awkwardly bump into it, the grocery store. But that always was

fun, Tim, when you were teaching, like you run, and they look at you like, what are you doing here?

Yeah, man, I'm a regular grown up, I have to buy food too, you know, but to a student, the idea

of their teacher is like, you know, it's almost like they're a vacuum or a piece of technology that

gets put back in the closet, end of the day, you know, I've even, I even had kids have asked me that

when I was teaching younger grades, do you live back there? Like, do you live in the school? No, no,

I live in a house just like the other teachers here. Hey, but no, nonetheless, you know, I digress,

but yeah, we were out there, you know, introducing new teachers, have we had some new administrators

in our local districts, so they were out there kind of press, press in the flesh, meeting people

and community families and saying, hey, we're excited about the school year because it is

exciting times as we gear up, you know, as kids, you kind of remember, I'm sure Jacob, we can

pick on you for this because Tim, he talks about his anxiousness for your producer's choice on Friday.

Yeah, all of us remember just having a case of the Sundays. It's like Sunday and you're like,

oh, man, school tomorrow. Yeah, it's going to be Monday. Yeah. Well, well, this is the week,

these, these couple of weeks, where if you're a kid out there, even if you're a parent too,

my parents are probably getting excited to get your kids back in school. But yeah, with the idea,

like, if you're a kid, it's like a massive case of the Sunday, summer is over. And even though

you're excited because like new classmates and new teacher and fresh start, it's still a little

bit like, uh-oh, no more, no more YouTube in the middle of the day, no more, you know, snacking

on stuff whenever I know if you're a parent out there like me, you're counting down the days.

I mean, my grocery bill is going to drop significantly now that my kids will be back in school,

you know, I'll be less of a like a summer camp counselor plan and activities all hours of the day.

Uh, but no, we are out in farmers market, which I think is just a great place for people always

to get together, man. Let me ask you, though, too. I mean, because of all those things that you're

talking about, but I mean, let's not lose sight. You're handing out school supplies to the

doors, just the way for kids to be like, let's get some stuff. Let's, okay. You know, I'm, you know,

I talk a lot. I mean, people listen and know this is like, geez, Johnny, just wait, wait, wait, Jacob,

did you know that? No, I had never noticed that about Johnny. Yeah. So, I mean, it's called the

list gap. Yeah. It's my, it's one of my, it's one of my superpowers, right? But, but, but the thing

is like, having conversations, Tim, you talked about this. What do you remember about your teachers?

It's being real and seeing you as whatever age you're at appropriately, seeing you as like a being,

like as a, as a, as a whole person, even though you're still grown up and you're still a young

and a young blood out there, but it's just kind of an opportunity to have conversation. Hey,

man, you like to do your math with mechanical pencils or you like your trusting number two,

you go with a pre-sharpened or do you rock a sharpener in your pencil case? You know,

just these kinds of conversations that help, help with the Sunday scaries that I call the summer

scaries, the end of summer. Get a little excited about school. You can't fill your entire school

supply list there, but you can pick out a few like eraser caps and, you know, fun stuff and just

chop it up with new teachers, give some high fives and, you know, chat chat about older kids,

you could talk about, you know, are you excited to use a TI-85 Texas instrument, 85 in your math

classes, you take a break out this high school, you know, you just kind of kind of start to have

those everyday conversations around, hey, did you have a summer job? What's your plans? What

electors did you sign up for? Just having those conversations that see a person and those students

who are about to be back in class? Yeah, like what AI app will you be using this school year?

No, that's not a conversation I'm going to have. You know, Johnny, the TS-22 or whatever you just

said, I'm kind of going like, you know what, I got my old trusty AI, I got no need for any Casio TS-32

57, you know, decimal calculator, man, I got me some AI. This is Tim Hayden on math class.

No, you can't use the AI yet to do this stuff really well, but I bet it's not too far off,

really honestly, I bet it's not too far off, that there's going to be some AI assisted technologies

that replace, you know, your handheld calculator where you do all your different graphing functions

and solve, you know, quadratic equations and, you know, it's not, you don't have to write out that

big formula anymore and plug it in and do it by hand, you know, even back when I was a high school

student, Tim, and, you know, it was the trusty TI-85 still being used in schools across this country,

but it's a great tool, just, you know, just chopping it up with the youth.

Got two questions for you though, because you made me think of something here, like, you know,

the drafting pencil, the number two pencil. Yeah, man, tools of the trade. Are you offering them

busted pencils, Johnny? No, man, no broken ones. No broken ones. They do, they do sometimes say,

aren't you that weird guy with a podcast? And I'm always like, tune in for busted pencils.

Yeah, you know, you know, you know, busted right in front of them and give them one man, say,

like, you get a busted pencil, dude. Yeah. And you know what I need to do, Tim, is I need to make

more coffee mugs with the busted pencils, logo on it, because every teacher that listens locally

or even not locally, you should have a busted pencils coffee mug on your desk, you know, we should

have something special for you. I definitely hand out a ton of stickers, right? There's always

busted pencil stickers that you can't just anywhere live, which, you know, stay tuned for the school

year, because Tim and I do pop up from time to time in the live. We'd love to do a live show with

Jacob. He's yet to do one with us, but we give out a ton of swag. You know, we have a great

conversation. We usually have a lot of teacher guests all in one on those live shows. So stay tuned

this fall for some exciting stuff like that. I guarantee you there's going to be something near you

where you could catch us. Do you ever have students walk up and say, oh, Mr. Lupinachi, will you

bust my pencil for me? No, not my pencils busted, would you? Oh, man, I think there we go, man,

you know, we're going to show up and bust pencils for the kids. Total busted, no, John, I know you

got an agenda for the rest of the show, but you know, we're kind of coming up on the break, but

I got to ask you this question because, you know, Jacob and I, you know, had a, well,

it's not going to come out yet, but yeah, you know, just think about it. You've got a book

recorded home room without. Yeah, we prerecorded. My mother's birthday. Yeah,

the listeners in on this cryptic conversation. We just daughter's birthday and they prerecorded

a home room. All right, letter ripped and what do you got to ask? What do you remember about

home room as a high school student, Johnny Lupinachi 11th grade? What did home room? Yeah, what did

home room? Junior year. What did home room mean to you? Man, I had a home room for us was

interesting. It was just kind of before or after lunch and I can't remember where it was slotted

for us in the school day, junior year, but it was a way to have like half the high school lunch,

half the high school, you know, in their home room. And we played a lot of yuker, the Submit

West boy here, you know, we talked some good life stuff because junior year, remember, you're like,

you're like almost in a belt. You're not quite a sea. It's not quite senior year, but you know,

you've already kind of like grown a bit. You're no longer freshmen and sophomore. You're less likely

getting in trouble. You're kind of chilling through the school day. You got a little heavier

content course wise. So you're either working on homework, studying for a test that you might

have later that day, or a lot of us were playing yuker. All right, so hold on there, because

the thing about this, because I saw Jacob's eyes light up when you said when you had home room.

And that's what is going to be on Monday's home room that we pre-recorded. We found out that

what home room means to you, what it means to Jacob, what it means to me. There's a diversity of

what home room meant. And we actually are kind of putting this out there. And so, hey, tune in on

Monday, man, for a home room. Because I think you're going to find that interesting. How did you

have home room? That's coming up on Monday. When we get back though, Johnny Lupinachi has the notebook

filled with lots of questions, higher education, where we headed. We'll be right back.

You got to be careful when you hear that music. Do not bang your head on the steering wheel. Pay

attention. Spusted pencils. Fully let it. Education doc. Educated. Educators talking. Education.

Me, Dr. Timselecker. Dr. Johnny Lupinachi. Jacob chairman of the board Saturday,

one full hour. Great. Warm up conversation. But you know, listeners, though, are kind of

probably after going, that's great. I love hearing what you guys are up to. But what's going on,

Johnny, you actually, you're kind of now in control. And I'm going to hand it off to you. Let you

set, set this up. People want to hear Tim get grilled. All right. Let's grill them. Let's put them

on the stand. Let's give them a deposition of his week. No, Tim, you came in hot to our Wednesday

show. You know, no, producer's choice. I'm getting all mixed up in my changes schedule. But

you know, we're back to it in the classroom. And so figuring out this balance. But Tim,

you came directly to our show the other day, producer's choice. Listener, if you didn't get

to hear it, it was, it was probably top five producers choice in the year so far. You know,

you got to grab it and listen to it drop down Friday. So it's still fresh. But it was a great,

great episode. But Tim, you came into it hot. You're like, hey, I just got in the door

from participating on a panel, right? And that's something we do as professors. And Tim now is

a, you know, big time administrator. He's called a shop collar and higher ed. But, you know,

as educators, too, teachers, whatever, at any point in our career, Tim, sometimes you get tapped

to go be part of a panel discussion or to present or be part of a, like, a community dialogue or

a town hall, you know, where you discuss a topic. And of course, we always are chopping up topics

here on busted pencils. So no surprise to me that you would get tapped to go have a conversation

in public, because this is your forte, my guy. But you can, you can facilitate a conversation,

not talk too much like I talk way too much. These listeners know. But, you know, you can ask questions,

you can listen and you can offer great insight, because, you know, not be an ageist here, but pro

age. You've got to experience by guy. You've done some really great stuff in some different

communities. And you have both the bird's eye view of higher education and really public education,

pre K through adults learn. So I can imagine there's no surprise about you getting tapped to go

participate in your state capital. So you came in hot, you told us a little about it. I said,

Tim, hold it Saturday show, because I'm going to interview you about it. So just take us back

to your panel. Tell us a little bit about what it was about. And from what I understand,

it kind of matches a conversation we've been having here of busted pencils. So I'm going to ask

you to elaborate on some parts, but just for listener out there and for Jacob and I, because we

told you the other day, go tell us now, tell us on Saturday. So now tell us, what is this panel,

you got tapped to go participate in? Well, it was the, it's the Pennsylvania higher education summit

in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. As you said, Johnny, the capital. And it was a half day summit where

they came together and it was put together by some of the media in the Harrisburg area,

asking the, you know, the question of, you know, the future of higher education. And it was set up

and framed very much by the standpoint of understanding the reality that higher education

is facing, not all the diversity, equity, inclusion, things like that, but, but just a real hard

reality, which is, hey, 18 year olds, there's just aren't as many. And in fact, lots of colleges

are suffering from enrollment declines and realizing that that is a fact, but then also realizing

that out in the work world, there are lots of people who need an education who aren't 18 year olds.

They might be an apprentice in an electric type of school. They might be already, you know,

kind of saying like, I want to get a new career. And so how is higher education going to show up

in this moment and realize that workforce, truly, workforce development and higher education,

are they going to come together to create some economic opportunities for the workforce?

And with those economic opportunities, does this offer higher education, also an opportunity

to really serve the communities in which they are existing geographically, physically in that sense?

And so, you know, it was framed very, very, you know, pointedly by the chancellor

of the Pennsylvania system, who kind of just laid that out very, very, you know, matter of fact,

less students, dwindling enrollments, workforce industry out there saying, hey, but we got a bunch

of people who are very interested in education, higher education industry, how do you work together

to solve this issue? And that's actually quite a few issues in there. And I was asked

then to sit on a panel and talk about what was going on at my institution and what my vision

of what a future like that might look like, because in my new administrative role,

I am focused on what they call academic innovation and continuing studies, which is

bridging out to create more opportunities to serve students and have education options

that are actually more designed by the future students based on the needs that they have.

So workforce based on industry, setting that up, Johnny, so that when we come back,

then you can really grill me because you can see right now I'm frightened and I'm holding on

to this break because I needed to catch my breath and get ready. Busted pencils, we'll be right back.

Hey, welcome back to Busted pencils, fully-ledged education talk, educated educators,

talking education. It's the Saturday broadcast. It's fall. We're chopping it up. Dr. Tim Slecker here

with me, Dr. Johnny Lupinacci and chairman of the board, producer Jacob. We love you having you

here with us, listener. Tim, in the last segment, you were talking about participating in the summit,

and I just imagined you and several other academics with your backpacks, you know, in your

freefaces and laptops, hiking up a mountain to the summit to the summit. Not that kind of summit,

more like a gathering to have a discussion, like a public square kind of forum, Q&A session,

I'm imagining, where you all were talking about, like you said, the changing landscape of higher

education and in particular, you know, for you, talking about the exciting things and academic

innovation and partnerships and, you know, really, I would say from just my perspective, you know,

highlighting the community partnership focus of the work you're doing at your institution and

that I believe is a key part of what, you know, higher ed institutions addressing the change in

landscape are, are all doing it right now. But Tim, in past shows, we've talked about this

a little bit and we've been saying, so what's different? We're all like, hey, these times are a

change in. There's stuff that higher ed needs to pay attention to and we've talked about it for

listener, you might, you can resonate with this or maybe you're new to this. There is probably in my

lifetime, the highest level of distrust or disc intent with, look, say, professors or, you know,

higher education than at least ever in my lifetime. Right. You know, and for some of it for good reason,

there's been some certainly we've talked about it, some, some strong efforts put into distance,

you know, everyday conversations and important decisions being made, you know, to sort of say,

well, we are the experts and we know so much and we're just here studying and figuring things out

that we being professors at whatever institutions near you, you know, the vibe is out there.

But I would say more and more to him while it's super important that there are, you know, experts

out there and I want to say that, like people with PhDs are experts in their area of study,

right. They're like, maybe we've talked about it, but here on the show before, you might be at a

university, you might be like the world's leading engineer in plastic coatings, right. Where you

focused your entire, you know, career on innovation and knowledge around that area, you bring this up

sometimes them like philosophers who maybe are like, you know, classics philosopher and they know

everything about like Plato and Socrates and they teach these inspiring classes on our college

campuses and certainly they're important and we're not disin them. But one of the things we've

talked about here on the on the show Tim and you know, it's out there and and kind of the public

discourse is that what do we do in this particular moment where you had kind of mentioned that

the summit you were at was laying out and acknowledging less people are following that sort of pathway

that for the better part of us at 40 years or more was just business as usual like graduate from

high school, go to college or else your failure, which we know we're not saying here. That's a huge

problem of like sort of the pathway, just assumption that that's the path. It's done a rock star

job of separating people from like, hey, I'm educated or I'm uneducated. I'm in the trades. I

don't have an education versus, hey, I'm in, you know, this college degree and I'm educated. We

know that that's hogwash. There's some really smart people on the trades and vice versa. There are

some not so smart people who got degrees. So coming back to Tim, we said like there's less 18

year olds following it like following into just a four year institution or even just traditional

school, even if those are two year degrees. We've talked about the economy that we're in, right? A

solution in the past of declining enrollment, less 18 year olds or less 18 year olds choosing to

go to school or accessibility to classes, even if you're like 24 and like, hey, I'm done with my

service in the military. I would like to maybe go to college access to those programs, maybe prohibitive.

So one of the one of the knee jerk reactions I'll say of higher ed was to just charge more,

right? Like, oh, we got less students. Okay, let's just up tuition and keep the boat going in the

same direction. Well, we've, we've realized not only in this economy, but that bubble bursts

at some point. I think it got way bigger than it should have ever gotten in terms of the cost

of tuition raised for, you know, people who want to get a degree. But we've talked about that

there are financial realities that universities have to address. There are changes in generational

expectations, right? Like, Jacob has spoken about this different generations. Like, hey, I know a

lot of people that are younger who are like, I don't necessarily think college is the right place for

me. 20, 30 years ago, maybe even still today, I don't know, I think it's changing. That's a taboo

conversation. Or if you're a parent listening and you have someone of a younger generation, you're like,

God, that's the, my kids said that and I'll tell you I had a connection fit, you know, like they

got to go to college or what are they going to do? Well, more and more young people are saying that

might not be for me. In addition to that, Tim, we've said that like the learn, like these young learners

know what they need. And they often aren't getting that at colleges and finding other places where

their learning needs are met. All that's to say, if, if you're in higher ed and you're not addressing,

like Tim, you talk about academic innovation, community programs that are connected to careers,

and just overall thinking about how do we build more trust and strengthen what we do? Like, what's

our brand? Right? I know higher ed folks out there might be cringe and saying, Johnny's on here

talking about higher educators needing to have a brand, but yes, having an identity that here's

what we do and why coming to such and such place to learn is a good fit for you. Sort of like

strong customer satisfaction. I hate to be fully in the business model, but this is also a reality

of the time we're in. Are we serving democracy well? Are we serving community well? And so, Tim,

I'm wondering from your time at the summit, what are some of the standouts around that conversation

being had like where your eyes kind of wide open to do some cool stuff where like a light bulb went

off and you were like, oh, I got to remember that and share with my comrades. I, you know,

man, that was a lot. Jacob, man. All right. Yes. So get right into the meat of it. So on my panel,

there was also a vice president of student affairs from another higher ed institution and a president

from another public and all three of us were public regional higher education and, you know,

quickly moving on to the workforce and saying if we're going to be in service with industry and

communities in offering upscaling credentials, degrees to that student body of which they're going

to be. What do we need to do to be in a place that makes success happen? Because these are not

people who are going to be taking classes between 9 a.m. and 3 p.m. they're working full-time.

They, you know, have other responsibilities. They might not need to be able or they might not

even be able to be on campus, right? So how are you diversifying the curriculum? How are you making it

more digestible? How is it available online? How is it available hybrid? How is it condensed to like

three Saturdays? All of those things to say because if you're going to be in service of

higher education, and I really mean this for another population, particularly here, let's just say

workforce, the structures of higher education as you pointed out have not ever really been in service

to educating adults who might be working full-time or trying to upskill. So, you know, right away the

vice president of student affairs at our institution, we now have student affairs has office hours

from 4 p.m. to 8 p.m. every night realizing that guess what? We have to be available because like

these are students, this is the office of student affairs, students need to be able to get in touch

with real people, not call us back the next day during business hours because I'm already working

full-time. So moving in that way too. And then the president though realizing that there's a

clout that can come with this. And so in his geographic region in Pennsylvania, an industry, a big

drug manufacturer was about to leave the area. And through conversations with him and his faculty

reaching out with some of their chemistry people, they actually partnered to come together and

this is a huge drug manufacturing company. They now have decided because of the partnership with

this university and the ability to bring in the people they need and for the people that will

continue to work there to get the education to keep this place. They're not only are they not

closing the plant, they're investing more and expanding the plant because they now see higher

education as their partner in growing this business. So, you know, those are those types of

things. And then I was there talking about, you know, something that I believe is a really

cool opportunity and that is working with the trades on apprenticeship, fully in apprenticeship

and recognizing that, hey, guess what, going through an apprenticeship is higher education.

And, you know, well, it's education after it's, well, maybe put it this way, it's an education

experience. And so, how do you learn experience? It's a learning experience, learning experience.

And how then do you tell or work with tradespeople who are now saying, particularly construction

carpenters, safety people, who now see that the job site actually itself is getting more than

just a trade. And they're realizing, hey, we need a little bit more, hey, university X,

can you help us with our apprentices get into a program that after they're done with their trade

apprenticeship, they can then continue on to a degree in construction management, a degree in

safety occupation, a degree in business entrepreneurship. And that's what we, what I was there talking

about saying, yes, in fact, we're working with the local union and hearing very much them saying,

you know, we need it online, we need it hybrid. And more importantly, we don't want to see it

as a start and then who knows when we're ever going to finish because it seems so far.

Can you turn this education process into more digestible certificates along the way? And so,

in other words, can I get certificate one, call that an accomplishment, get certificate two,

get certificate three, put that all together, I have my degree. That's the kind of work we're talking

about very much in this realm. Johnny, I know we'll come back, we're going to be tight, but so you're

going to have to get to a question quick if you got another one. Bro, I do what I want. I do what I want, man.

Jacob, Jacob will come after you, busted pencils, higher education. Yeah, future.

Oh, yeah, you know, when you hear that music, it's last segment, busted pencils fully

let it education talk, educated educators talking education. I know I was doing that quickly. Dr.

Johnny Lupinacci, producer, chairman of the board, Jacob, me, Dr. Tim Slecker. Here we are,

future of higher education, I kind of laid out, you know, what my panel was doing and what probably

to sum that up and then Johnny, let you hit it again, is is that we're making the

the structural changes needed to make sure that serving the workforce, our institution can

actually do it well. So yeah, I love that. And it sounds like collaboratively in your institution,

you're doing that inner work to say, this is what makes us unique. This is how we're building

partnerships. This is how we're strengthening trust. This is how we're marketing better and

delivering all the way around a high quality experience for not only a student, right, but for

the community who's in partnership. So it's like a win-win-win all the way around. I love the

examples of where, you know, research, teaching, service, you know, job internships, career, early

career supports and pathways all come together and line up. And I think it's ever important,

because sadly enough, you know, some in some context higher ed got too used to just being

business as usual in this country, you know, and it and I emphasize business and of it, like

the customers are just going to keep on coming and they'll pay whatever. Right. And so, and if they

don't have the money, they'll get a big loan from the government, like all that is going apart.

Like that has, you know, that fire works of a business plan have gone off and fizzled out.

So I love to hear these not just stories, but, you know, first hand accounts of those efforts

to not put our head in the sand and ignore, just say, well, just charge tuition more. And this

is what we do. You know, that certainly has been some of the responses from higher ed over time.

But Tim, you know, I will say a little caution to it as we do this as a teacher, right. We could

do another whole show in this as a historian aspect, like aspect of both your and my education,

Tim is the history of public schools. And we remember the turn of the last century, not the

century that you and I were both teachers in. And then it was a new century, the one we're in.

But the one before when, especially in Chicago, right, factories, we're saying, this is what

you're going to teach the kids. And this is what we need them for. So, you know, history doesn't

repeat itself, but Mark Twain reminds us, it sure does rhyme. And I'm not saying that this,

what we're doing now is a mistake, but I'm saying let's also remember what our school teachers

fought hard for and find a balance to wear that. And I think that's what you're talking about,

build that trust, have those partnerships of, you know, courageous new new ways of working together,

where it's not companies telling us what to teach right kids, but it's saying, hey, these young

people got to learn something or new students need to learn x, y, and g to be effective in our

career and vice versa. So, where we're actually partnering, not teachers telling industry what

they're going to get, and not industry telling teachers what to teach, but coming together and

figuring it out. And I love what you're sharing. I think it's awesome. You were at the summit,

right? I'm not surprised because like I said before, you bring the wisdom, you also bring the

funk, which is why you're so special, right? As one of my favorite punk rock educators. I'm going

to say they end the punk. I'm exactly I'm just the punk and the funk, right? So, I'm just pumping

your tires, buddy, because I'm excited as my school year starts to be here with you and to be

with Jacob as we, you know, chop it up and really get into the mess. Man, I'd love that. Wow.

How do you work on that? Yeah, you know what though? This is Johnny, you know, and I, you know,

as we're coming down there closing, I want to emphasize a really important point you made,

which is the reality of, hey, we're not talking about turning public schools or turning public

higher education into a factory model that continues to just churn out quote workers.

Right. You know, no, this is partnership and really saying the best of, I guess you'd say if

we're talking about the apprenticeship, the best of worker skilled union trade education and

higher education coming together in in a new way that is realizing that, you know what,

just training workers, that's not the future either. We need workers who are incredibly talented,

who know what they're going to do on the job, but then have the opportunities to do more

man. But now though, Johnny, it's time for your moment of sin.

What history shows is that people who seem to have no power, who did not have the money,

people who did not have the military force at their disposal, who did not control the means

of communication were able, nevertheless, at certain points in history to change their lives

because they found their own kind of power, the power of organized people.

Hey, thanks for listening to Busted Pencils broadcast today. I remember all week long,

you could grab great podcast, chock full of more fully-led education talk,

an Apple podcast, Spotify, and of course, on the civic media website,

or at BustedPensils.com and don't be late for home room on Monday and make sure you catch

class and session next week on Wednesday and find us Friday for, of course,

one of our favorite things, producer Jacobs' choice. And again, if you're so inclined,

tune in at 3PM Central Time Across all the civic media network stations for this one hour

of your favorite blue-collar scholars, Tim and Johnny, and keep Busted Pencils.

you