You know, when you hear that music, well, it's busted pencils, but more importantly, it
is Jacob producer's choice day. Oh my goodness, the fun will begin shortly. Johnny Lupinachi here,
me, Dr. Tim Slecker, that's Dr. Johnny Lupinachi and the chairman of the board,
Jacob. There he is. Johnny's laughing.
Tim thought he was really funny on that one. He almost took himself out.
Oh, I saw Johnny laughing there and he caught me, you know, like, that was a making fun of me laugh,
I could tell. Is this true, Johnny? I mean, I don't think making fun at you, Tim, I just think the
way that you say, such a chairman of the board always, always brings me a smile.
Well, you know, I'm hoping it doesn't remind you of the the porky pig episodes that we we
potentially grew up with. Those loony tunes, speaking of which, no, not not loony tunes on Jacob's
choice, but Jacob, we are excited to be guests on our own show and with Adam and I hand it over to you,
my friend. Guys, I'm excited because it's a Friday once again. And a Friday means it's time
for special segment. We do here every week with Dr. Johnny Lupinachi, Dr. Tim Slecker and me.
You already said I'm the chairman of the chair. Anyway, let's just do the intro.
For two, two, producer at Jacob's choice, chairman of the board.
You and I will have two choices. Chairman of the board, Jacob.
Jacob chairman of the board. I've got the board. It's spelled B-O-R-E-D.
We choose to go to the mold. Life's full of tough choices.
We chose poorly.
So guys, if you remember last week on the producer's choice show, by the way, Dr. Tim Slecker,
Dr. Johnny Lupinachi, always happy to have you guests on your own show. You're very good at it.
I have to say nobody shows up to their own show to be asked questions like you guys do,
and I'm proud to host you. So thank you for being here. Last week, if you recall,
we went back in time through the midst of history to the 20th century to ask you about some of your
foundational student moments that helped shape you into the teachers that you have become and
continue to be. So today, we're going back in time again, but not as far,
because this week, guys, I'm going to ask you some of these foundational moments as teachers
that have impacted what type of teachers you've ended up being.
Tim, you went first last week. So, Johnny, you can go first this week. Dr. Johnny Lupinachi,
tell me about a positive experience teaching that you have had and how that impacted the
type of teacher you've continued to be. Well, Jacob, I've had a lot of positive experiences
teaching, which is probably why I stuck with it. You had good positive behavior,
reinforcement on the career trajectory. But let's see, if I think of one that first comes to mind,
let's see, I think it's my very, very first year teaching, you know, way back at the turn of the
century. And it was in a math, math classroom in Detroit. And I had an honors geometry class.
So I had a handful of sections of algebra, a section of precalculus, and a section of honors
geometry. And the honors geometry class was pretty phenomenal. I won't get into the specifics and
details of, you know, the unique, you know, roster in that class. But it was a pretty excellent
group of students, untraditional students, a little bit older than traditionally students taking
geometry. A lot of them were, you know, in an honors geometry class, as part of like finishing
their degree a little later, just to kind of weigh that school was comprised of students.
But they, you know, always say we learned from our students. But that, they knew I was a first-year
teacher. And that group sort of took me under their wing and gave me so much feedback, which I hadn't
really gotten a lot of becoming a teacher. Sad to say enough, I was teaching in some high-need
areas. And they said, hey, this is great. We got a math teacher. And he's doing awesome. And I was like,
you know, I feel like I'm not doing so great. But they said, no, you're doing awesome. Just keep
up the good work. And they didn't give me a lot of constructive feedback in terms of different
things to try. And, you know, and they were also quite older than I was at that time being,
you know, just in my early, early 20s. And then I had this group who was just vocal. I mean,
they were amazing. They would say almost every day, real-time feedback. Hey, today's lesson went
great. But, you know, this, this, and this could be better. You know, maybe maybe try this tomorrow
to this with us. How are your other classes going? You know, as we sort of work on our math problems
and at that time, lots of proofs in geometry class. But they gave me so much feedback. And I will say
Jacob, you know, oh, nearly every time what they suggested was spot on. And it worked amazingly
in my other classes. And I, for one, would not be the teacher I am even today without that, you
know, full year of that honors geometry class with just a really, you know, a really unique group
who taught me so much on how to teach. So you always hear, we learn from our students. But in
that context, you know, I, I was really, you know, graced with being able to learn a lot from
and with my students as I was sort of cut in my teeth as a teacher, you know, and they, you know,
it's like when you get a good coach, they really take you to that next level. That group of honors
geometry students at Cooley High School and they try to miss again no longer open. Wish it was
still going. But, you know, Cooley High School. And, and pretty amazing experience for me, Jacob,
I think about it still to this day all the time. It's easy for teachers to fall into sort of a
mindset of sort of a hierarchical mindset in the classroom because inherently you're the teacher,
you're at the top of the pyramid there, you're instructing the students. Do you feel that that
situation you had, Johnny, that that help you develop a sort of different view of the relationship
you can have with the students? But, you know, Jacob, I went into teaching, you know, knowing,
I think we talked about this before on the show, a lot of bad experiences,
educations, and some good ones. And I wanted to, you know, I think people ideally go in wanting
to do good. I wanted to be those great teachers that I had. But, but there was so much I didn't know.
But I think I already went in with a disposition of like, it's not us versus them. You know, I was
taught, you know, don't smile until I at least after Thanksgiving, those kinds of things, you know,
go inside the classroom and kick the garbage can really hard, you know, like, you know, set
precedents. And if you're too bond or you're too nice, the kids will take advantage of you.
You know, the secret, I kind of already went in to teach and knowing like, the kids are in charge,
you just have to kind of steer the flow. And you're responsible. And so those two things can
sometimes clash. And I'm like, go with the flow, not against it. But I also have a job to do.
And so being, you know, firm and disciplinar, I think I've said this before through engagement
and not compliance. But that was that was something I believed in. But it was that it was in fact
Jacob that group that really helped me stick to it because they were like, change this, but don't
change about you that you're with us, you know, and I think a lot of teachers struggle with that.
I think a lot of us have, you know, an internalized maybe even overt agism. Yeah, you know,
like you're talking about like, here's this like, well, I know best. Well, like, well, you're
lunatic. If you're 20 years old and you think, you know, more than all, you know, all the kids
combined, you might know more about math than them. But you don't know more about the culture
they're in their lives, their, you know, the nuances of what works and doesn't work in those
groups. So that was, I kind of was lucky. I went in not wanting to control students. So that was
something they were able to help give me good reinforcement. Like, don't change that about you,
but you do got to be tougher on some of these other things. Like, don't let these kids and to be
fair, that unique group Jacob, some of the students were quite older in their, almost in their
20s themselves and things. And so, you know, they, they were like, yeah, don't let these little
ones run you over all day. And I'm like, don't worry, I won't like, but most of the time, I'll be
honest, like, my ninth grade algebra classes where, you know, running all over me. But they
can help give me some tools, you know, to stick to stay true to who I was in kind of, you know,
a teacher who is with students, not against them or there to control them. But help give me some
tips on how to like establish what I call my teacher voice, you know, which wasn't as a yellow.
Like, I genuinely don't get mad at young people making mistakes, even behavioral ones,
you know, the, the, it happened many times. Every teacher listening knows, you know, you get those
students who verbally tell you where to go. And I don't tell you where to go, like, turn the page
to the next set of problems. You know, they have a bit of sometimes pretty tough to take words.
But, you know, you go and say, that's sort of what teenagers do. Yeah, it's supposed to be,
you know, they're supposed to be in support of it or whatnot. But, but you got to give them some
guardrails. And you got to have some boundaries. And, and there are ways to establish and force
those without trying to like, entrench in the battle of teacher versus student. Well, that's
exactly the thing, Johnny, because I think I had it backwards. You were talking about this situation.
I think maybe what it was is actually the mindset you already had is what allowed you to learn
from these students and be able to take that feedback positively. Tim, I want to ask you the same
exact question. What was an early teaching experience that was positive? And how did that inform
the type of teacher you continued to be? Um, well, unlike Johnny, I got mad a lot.
No, and lead this in. No. And so this will actually be lead into an incredibly powerful experience
that was a positive was recognizing how much you don't know when you're in situations of
dealing with 20 plus, you know, children. And so this is my second year teaching fifth grade.
So that's nine and 10 year olds. And, um, you know, you think about a nine and a 10 year old. And
you're like, wow, um, they're actually quite mature. Um, they're, they're able to reason. They're
able to have really great conversations. Um, and they're not middle school kids yet, which is
another beauty. They're kind of like, for me, they're that perfect sweet spot of curious,
interesting, continue to talk, want to know more. And, um, but in my second year, you know,
teaching, I taught a fifth grade, totally self-contained classroom, which meant the kids that came in
at 730 in the morning were with me until 335 in the afternoon. I taught reading, I taught math,
I taught social studies, I taught language arts, English, I taught, you name it science, you know,
that's what a self-contained fifth grade classroom looked like. And so I had the same 22 kids that year
for the entire 36 weeks. So that means every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
Friday, at 730 in the morning, those kids that you had the night before are all coming back
the next day. And within that group, there are ones that, um, you know, I don't know if a lot of
teachers will admit this, but there are some that you really, really like. And, um, there are some
that you are absolutely positive that they were put in front of you to, um, push you to the limit
of wherever it is you can break. And, um, that actually happened to me. I had, um, a student,
you know, David, David Bogas, David, if you're out there right now, you are what, 40
three years old. So, um, you know, which is in the self-haul weird, but. I'll be reaching out.
Yeah, please reach out. But, um, you know, David was a rough kid, um, and daily, you know,
regularly throughout the same day, um, created lots of challenges.
Um, and I think one day I, you know, what, you know, putting that together, he took me to my limit.
And my limit broke down into an anger. And I turned that into David, just get the hell out of
this room right now. And I don't know if there was something about the tone in my voice that he
sensed that maybe he had crossed the line too, but he got up, started crying, walked out into the,
the hallway. And, um, you know, for a second, I was like, okay, and then, you know, you let him out
there and I walked out and I was just, I was still just stewing. I was like, David, what are we
going to do? What's the problem here? He was like, Mr. Slecker, you don't get it. I had to wake up
at five in the morning to get my sister, my mom's at home drunk every night. I had to make dinner
and I'm just sick of being in school. And it was just like that moment was, oh, oh,
so you're not just being a little nine year old who thinks every day how they're going to wake up
and terrorize teachers, your real life is really challenging. And you need people to see that. And
that was that moment where it was just like, you know, not saying that in the, going on throughout
there weren't days where you get challenged, but it always gave me that ability to really go back
to the things I had been taught about being a teacher, which is you don't know what these kids
are doing when they're living their lives outside of the classroom with you. And really,
whenever you can get to know who they are, get to know what's happening in their families,
because it will give you a perspective that on those days, you can go, oh, I get it. It doesn't
allow you to potentially excuse it. Oh, that's just, you know, let them go crazy. But you get a sense
of understanding. And then from that standpoint of saying my favorite teachers, it gave me an opening
then to talk to David at that point, from a position that I think really allowed me to take off
the anger and the heat, heat, heat, not a heat, and really show up in a way that was concerning
and he felt that. You know, and the story then goes, and guess what? He was a pain and tough
all year. It didn't change. And magically, he was an awesome student. But there was an understanding
that there were times when I could be just give him the look and be like, look, man, if you need a break,
step out, come back or, hey, during, you know, during recess, come on in, let's talk about it. So,
it was that moment of seeing the fact that, you know, I'm not teaching a bunch of kids,
stuff for them to remember, I'm in a relationship with lots of individuals who've got all kinds of
things going on in their lives. And for a moment, you know, maybe six hours a day, I get an opportunity
to work with them in a way that hopefully creates a positive future for them. And you can only do
that by acknowledging who they are for real and the things they bring. And so that to me just
really gave me that sense of saying, you know, I knew it. I was taught about it. I understood it.
But in the moment, you know, second, you're teaching totally forgot. And, you know, David,
thank you for showing up that day because that was an incredibly profound day for me.
Man, that was a great story to him.
Yeah. Thank you for telling that one.
Totally true, though, too. I know. I think Johnny's actually heard me tell this story one other time,
too. But, you know, though, I think it's those things that we, what is it about, you know,
quote, experiences that are that can drive you to be better? It's also being open to realizing that
there's a humbleness. I think Johnny has always been putting it. There's a humbleness that we need
to approach when we're standing, you know, in front of a group of children who every one of them
has had, you know, in the morning, the experience they went through in the morning before they got
to your classroom could be everything from an awesome great family breakfast to getting your sister
up from school while your mother lays their hungover from the night before. So there's a difference
between, as you said, learning about it in the classroom setting yourself, you know, the
troubles kids could have these things versus being there as a teacher and confronting it in your
actual life as a teacher. It probably brings it home. It would seem to me. Is there a lens through
which you can see this and say, as a young teacher, you saw this as a problem that you have in your
classroom and you came to see it more as you and him are working together on this problem. I mean,
it's not just happy being bad. He's got a problem and you both are working on it.
Well, it for me, it really pushed away this whole idea of some type of classroom management
discipline system that I had to then continue to enforce even more rigidly to get him to
comply and get in line. And it really pushed me in that direction of saying, like, look, okay,
quote, some behavior plans you need, you know, what are the rules of the classroom,
but the reality of when, you know, kids are acting out and, you know, John, that's communication.
They're speaking, they're just speaking a different language. And so our, you know,
quote, discipline plans, rules, whatever. In this point, if you're not listening to what they're saying
to you, it doesn't matter how tight you run your classroom and how tight of a ship and how many
discipline plans you have. If you can't hear what they're saying, you will never get into a
relationship with those students to be able to truly have a meaningful experience as a teacher.
Second question of the evening for you to find folks. Tim, great answer, great story. I set a
positive experience. He told a challenging one. I'm deducting points for that. Do not listen and
you don't fall instructions. So I need you to just get out of here, go in the hall for a bit.
Well, Johnny and I try to continue this episode of the producer's choice show.
But Jacob, I spend every day taking care of my mother-in-law.
Yeah, yeah, I've heard it a fast time.
All right, Johnny, now, because you fold instructions, you're going to find this very easy to answer
this question. What was a challenging experience you had as a teacher? And what did that teach you
about becoming a better teacher? It could be something similar to what Tim already said on the wrong
question. Johnny, before his yours. Yeah, Jacob, I'll just kind of, you know, piggyback on the last
story, a challenging experience that I had as a teacher, which came up quite a bit then in the years
that followed those first few years of things was, you know, finding my balance between, like,
really, really learning what my teacher voice was, really coming into it and having a good balance
of what I call disciplinary, but not punishing, right? Like striving for engagement and not
compliance. But, you know, things started to get more distracting in the classroom and we entered
the era of cell phones and all kinds of different, you know, school-wide policies that were very
different than my traditional approach of, like, hey, it's kind of go with the flow and, you know,
there are a lot of things that, you know, we can work together and maybe there's ways to include
using our cell phones in classrooms or, you know, like, like, following the rules, but,
you know, getting some teacher autonomy, well, I was in a school, it's a new principle,
and, you know, they're not wrong for this. They said, hey, we can't have a policy that's some way
in one room and different than the other. You know, this is starting to, like, create some missing,
like, some, some misunderstandings from students. I would say more opportunity for them to
sort of abuse situations, but I think a challenging situation for me, Jacob, was things were working
great for me in my classroom. They weren't necessarily going so great for my peers at that time.
And, initially, my first reaction, and, like, Tim brings up the importance of, you know, humility
when facing our students, but also when working with our peers that are different than us.
You know, I initially thought, yeah, you know, that's their problem. I mean, if they, if they
want to try and enforce every little rule and their classroom, they're going to get in these
power struggles with students and students are going to dig in, you know, and it's going to be a
non-stop, you know, you know, battle in the classroom that, quite frankly, how I frame my math
classroom isn't, you know, I don't have time for it. I don't have the energy. It's not what I
signed up for, you know, I work with students, not against them. I'm, you know, a coach, not a cop.
I had all of these, you know, you know, sayings already about how this was not my problem.
But it was a good reminder that that struggle was, but you're part of a team.
And every veteran teacher out there knows this. Like, it's important that we have different
styles of teaching that, you know, children have different kinds of teachers.
But, but it's also important for us to kind of find a middle ground.
And Jacob, that year, you know, I was like, okay, I've got to change some of what I do.
Like, I've got to teach with the team. I got to play, you know, the script that our coach or our
principal, you know, is asking us to play. I got to run the system. And so it was a different year.
It was a challenging year for me because it was more, more of a day-to-day challenge on like,
I have to be more disciplinary, even than I have found to be comfortable in terms of discipline
versus punishment. And I have to have some pretty strict consequences around some things that
aren't really a distraction to me. But I saw later in my years how cell phones did get to be
quite distracting in classrooms. And so, you know, I had to start teaching differently in terms of
spending a little bit more time enforcing policies, you know. And so, so that was an eye-awakening
difficult year because it was harder for me. I didn't enjoy the teaching as much. I learned a lot
about why I teach the way I teach. But I also learned a lot about what I thought was too much
for students. Actually, wasn't, you know, and about working in a team. I think overall,
our students benefited by our different kinds of teachers having common ground. And my,
you know, my day-to-day interactions with my peers changed. And that was a big learning moment for
me, Jacob, because I think about five, six years in the teaching, it was an aha moment that was like,
hey, it's not you versus the other teachers, right? You and a couple of other teachers versus the
other teachers. It's all of you together figuring out how to, you know, make the educational
experience the best it can be. And sometimes that means giving you a little bit or shifting a little
bit. And I learned a lot, man, I learned a lot. I think it gave me more credibility with my students,
especially with regards to behavioral stuff that was happening in other classrooms. I could say,
like, hey, come on, we're all following these policies. What's going on in Mr. So-and-So's class?
You know, like, and in previous years, Jacob, I know the students would say, well, you know,
he's such and such. He's a real jerk about the rules. Like, all he cares about is whether or not,
you know, we're we're following directions. And I said, well, you know, now I know, like, I care
about you. And I also care that you're following directions. It just gave me a little bit more leverage.
I think I became a better teacher that year. But it was a struggle. It was a struggle to you
just to a school-wide system. And every teacher out there, but you can relate. There's always
something, whether it's like, you know, a new policy about when we're starting particular, you know,
learning lessons or, you know, what time we have lunch at versus Reese, all these kinds of,
like really non-negotiables, you have a lot of saying as a teacher, that impact how you teach,
you know, it's also Jacob the silver lining. It's one of the joys of this career is that it's never
the same. So, you know, it was sort of like, that's a right around year five, six. I was like,
whoa, this job really is never the same. I don't think this is ever going to get old. It's never
going to get boring. And it layered on that level of, how about say, challenge to me, which I like,
is like, hey, not only are you required to teach and have your teacher voice, but you got to be
part of a team. And I think before that, I was more of like a lone ranger, a little bit of a rogue
teacher. It did pretty good at things like I enjoyed my teacher and students did great my class
and liked it. And I certainly also made mistakes like any teachers. I'm not bragging that I was
a perfect teacher, but I was definitely different in terms of things. And that year, I really turned
the corner on trying to figure out how could I stay who I was, but contribute to the whole team.
And sometimes if your teacher listening out there, that's not me saying, just go with the flow of
what's happening school. Sometimes you're just not in the right school. Yeah. And so that's kind of
one of those things. I was like, well, I'm really in the right school. I really like this place.
I just teach differently. But I think, you know, as a coach to I can adjust, I can relate now in my
older years. This is like when you have a really talented player on your team. But, you know,
you need them to be more of a team player. You need to play their role and, you know,
and work within the system. And so that was a good, that was a good learning year for me.
Difficult one. You know, still something I struggle with. I just got my, my marching orders for
what a syllabus needs to look like this year in teaching. And I'm like, that doesn't look like
my syllabus. My syllabus is engaging. It's fun. It's got videos in it. It's got all kinds of
how-tos. You know, but I also understand the broader context of being on a team
and understanding the political climate that we are teaching in right now. And had I not had
those difficult years early in my teaching career, Jacob, I might not have that skill today to
understand we're part of a system. We're part of a team. And choose your battles, right?
For me, Johnny, I, I'm not a teacher. And God willing, I never will be.
So for me, when I come into these conversations, I think about teachers as they relate to students.
But I'm glad you brought it back to where you did because being a teacher is also about being
one teacher amongst many teachers in a school. And that's equally important. That's just as much
a part of the job and just as much as part of the challenge as relating to students is.
Tim, do you want to tell that story again?
I was like, I'm one time like, okay, so now where do I go?
Well, I'm going to ask you, you know, I'll ask you that first question again, Tim. Tell us
a fun, positive experience you had as a teacher. And what that did to make you more good
or as a teacher. More good. I love being more good. You know what, pulling, putting in the effort
to actually pull together a full out civil war day with my with my fifth graders,
turning and showing the proof that fifth graders with with things to do that are interesting
can spend an entire day from morning until the end of school day fully engaged in learning
opportunities when they're provided in a situation that allow them to dig deep and explore.
Got a lot of parent volunteers together for this opportunity had, you know, we actually had one
of my students, they were they were pig farmers. And that was Lacey Watkins and Mrs. Watkins,
she goes, you know, I can bring a pig. And I was like, what, that would be like, do we need to,
she goes, no, I mean, like, we can cook a pig. And you know, she goes like, they did it, you know,
and so yeah, we cooked a full pig in the back of the school yard. You know, I had a couple
reenactment companies show up to drill the students on, you know, how to march and handle things
like that. Um, we built camps, but they could sit up, you know, did a lot of reading, had the music
teacher come out and teach, you know, civil war songs, did some artwork. And so what it,
for me, the effort I put into planning that day, and again, with my other fifth grade colleagues,
and the coordination with parents and realizing how much parents actually do want to get involved
in how much they can help putting that out there. And insisting to my principal, who was
really challenged by the idea of a whole day, you know, because then again, that was what 90,
four, 95, you know, instructional time, Tim, that's a lot of lost instructional time.
Like, no, it was a whole lot of learning time, truly, that was experienced by all me,
really importantly to be able to say you can do it, but you know what it also taught me,
is that you do have to plan with lots of people and create lots of opportunities. And so, um,
I kind of push against people who are like, hey, just like kids do it, they'll have a good time.
No, you can let kids have an opportunity to be exploratory, but create lots of opportunities
for them to do that. And doing that requires a lot of work, a lot of planning, a lot of effort,
and a lot of people coming together to make things like that happen. And so, you know, I think that
also set me in that mode of saying, you know, particularly when the lost instruction time,
motif or whatever you want to say, continue to accelerate, I don't know, it made me say,
we can do more than worry about how much time we spend on reading in math. And then that led me to
into, you know, opting my kid out of high sticks testing and creating busted pencils. And so there,
civil war day created busted pencils. It makes me think about what Johnny was just telling us about
with the interactions with fellow teachers and with administrators. What was it like Tim going up
to the other teachers and the principal and saying, hey, here's an idea. Let's do like a civil war day,
because I can see that being intimidating for a young teacher. And I can see the principal,
oh, the new guy wants to do some big thing. Wait till he learns we don't do big things around here.
Yeah, you know what? I mean, holy crap. That's a whole actually show in and of itself. Yeah.
The resistance this young teacher faced in that situation by actually a lot of
of my teacher colleagues and the principal together. You know, it really did. It probably was that
event along with the compounding effect of trying to do more things like that that actually took
me out of public school teaching. So I don't want to, boy, that sounds like a negative experience,
but it was just realizing though that look, if I'm going to, you know, it was a positive experience
because it got me motivated to finish my PhD and to go into teacher education to work with future
teachers to really empower them with saying you can do these things. It's not an
negative experience to him. As you said, it was a positive experience. And because it was so positive,
you said, hey, I'm going to do this whatever way I have to so that more people can have these positive
experiences. Thank you. There you are. You're better than AI Jacob. Thank you. In some aspects. Yes
and others now. Guys, thank you so much for being here. Dr. Tim Slecker, Dr. Johnny Lupinachi.
Great guests on your own show as always. But there's one thing that I do at the end of every
producer's choice show. And we're going to do that thing right now. Let's go. Dr. Johnny Lupinachi.
60 seconds on the board. Give a shout out to a teacher that was instrumental in helping you as a
young teacher. Oh, you know what? I think the first teacher that comes to mind is since we
are talking about geometry class, I'm going to throw a shout out to, you know, Mirsa Begg,
Mr. Begg at high school, my geometry teacher also had him for a home room a couple of times.
Just a genuinely entertaining, great, brilliant math teacher who, you know, communicated
mathematical concepts with a passion and was engaging and made math really fun and had all
these great little sayings that made that stuck in our heads. And it just stuck stuck with me as
like, man, I got to teach like Mr. Begg. What a great experience I had in his classroom and
thought of him often and still do as I'm teaching. Tim, same question to you. Who's a teacher,
give a shout out to them that helped you out as a young teacher. Dr. Mary Bevavino,
my student teaching coordinator supervisor instructor who absolutely did not allow me to
fall into the lazy guy stigma and pushed me so hard to actually be able to realize that you can
do these cool and creative things to him, but you need to put in the effort to the planning and
the preparation that goes into it because when you do these things, you will get resistance.
And one of the simplest ways to push on that resistance is to do it well. And so Dr. Mary Bevavino,
Edinburgh University, thank you so much. Incredibly special person to me.
Great answers all around. Now there's time for one last thing. And if there was one last thing, Tim,
I would remind him that he shouldn't read the AI generated responses in our chat. He should read the
the one last Tim. Go ahead. You mean the time for a moment of Zen?
History can untie our minds, our bodies, our disposition to move, to engage life rather than
contemplating it as an outsider. Thanks for listening to this episode of Busted Pencils,
producer Jacob's choice. And remember, you can grab great podcasts packed full with more
Busted Pencils content on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course on the civic media website
are at BustedPensils.com. Hey, and don't you dare next week be late for home room and make sure
you grab next week's class and session on Wednesday. And if you don't already know, well,
you're going to love it because you can catch Busted Pencils broadcast at 3 p.m. central time
across all the civic media's network stations on Saturday for an hour of your favorite blue
color scholars, Tim and Johnny, and keep Busted Pencils.