Adventures of Young Tim and Johnny, Producer’s Choice Show

Oh, the dancing music to start off with, Busted Pencils fully, and let it education talk,

educated educators talking, education, Dr. Tim Slecker, Dr. Johnny Lupinacci, and yes,

chairman of the board, Jacob, it is a Friday, and you know what that means, Johnny Lupinacci.

Jacob is in charge. We are now guests on our own show, and Jacob, I'm going to hand it over to you,

my friend, for two, two, producer, and Jacob's choice, chairman of the board.

You and I will have two choices. Chairman of the board, Jacob.

Oh, Jacob's chairman of the board.

I've got the board, it's spelled B-O-R-E-D.

We choose to go to the moon, life's full of tough choices in.

You chose one. It's a Friday once again.

Hey, dudes. Whoa, I'm glad that you could be here.

Thank you for allowing us this opportunity, Jacob.

Did you like that new, it's a Friday once again clip I'm trying to work into the program?

I like that. You are magical with the bringing things in, weaving them together,

making them sound, oh, that is magic, Jacob.

Well, thank you for coming to chairman of the board.

Yeah, it's a chairman, not because he's got a nice chair. He is the chairman of the board.

Jacob, what he got for us today, it's a point out every Friday.

I spent Thursday nights in bed with a little bit of a twitch and a concern because I mean,

you never know. I mean, Jake, Johnny.

What's going to be on producer Jacob's choice?

Well, there's nothing to worry about, Tim. You're in great hands as always here on this.

Producers' choice show very exciting. I hope you studied up on this.

So we all know that the Chinese Civil War ended in 1949 with the nationalist Guomintang fling to

Taiwan. Now, after Chiang Kai's check died in 1979, his son, Chiang Jing Quo, took over as

dictator. The question, guys, very simple. Do you think that Chiang Jing Quo was correct to

democratize Taiwan in the 1980s in response to Deng Xiaoping's reforms in mainland China,

or did he make a mistake? Well, Johnny, I'm just kidding, guys. That's not what we're talking about

today. No, we don't do that nerd stuff on the producer's choice show, not even close.

I want to take you guys back to not ancient Chinese history of the 20th century. I want to go

back to Tim and Johnny's history of the 20th century. And I want to talk about your time not as

educators, but as students. All right, it's a big reverse. So starting off with you,

Johnny Lupinachi, tell me what was a good experience you had as a student? And what did that teach you

that you brought over to being an educator? Oh, man, you know, I was just talking about this the

other day. I had a, I had a pretty amazing high school experience. I went to a unique kind of

high school. Maybe some listeners out there can share some solidarity. I went to an all boys

prep school. You know, and we talked about that when we talked about our favorite movies,

Carpe Diem, right? Deadpool, it's society resonated with me well. But I was just talking with my

daughter who, who hates PE. I mean, she abores PE class. And it's really different out here in

Washington where she goes to an amazing public school, but they have co-ed PD. And while I'm all

for like PE and like equal opportunity, I'm not ever making the case that, you know, female

identifying students shouldn't have PE class or that they can't compete at the same level as

male, their male counterparts. I just remember kind of the tensions we had as students at least

back in the eight, eighties and early nineties when I was in middle and high school. And we had

separate gender PE class. And, you know, and I really have fond memories of PE. And Jacob,

one of my most favorite experiences was the high school I went to, they had a required PE credit

every semester. It wasn't just like once during your high school or one year of it. We had

every, you know, every semester. And I was saying, I loved having zero hour calisthenics.

And then a PE class and you could have general PE or you could take wrestling or you could have

boxing or you could have weight training. There were a number of options and electives. Again,

one of these prep schools was very athletic focus, high academics, but also very athletic focus.

And I had some really great like PE and health teachers. And they were also some of them coaches.

And I loved my PE and health credits. And so Jacob, that was a really positive experience

for me to build into my lifelong skills, you know, working out every day, getting move and playing

playing games and activities that were somewhat competitive, but you didn't need to be expert.

Right, I was never a great basketball player, but I'd play a fair amount of somewhat organized

basketball through PE credits. And we were always in shape as students together.

You know, as young people, we were burning off energy. We were moving around because

you don't have recess when you get to a certain age. So, you know, it was a memory of mine

in high school, middle school was, you know, not having to just sit down all day, but having consistent

movement and great teachers who kind of kept us playing games. And, you know, and I attribute a

lot of my health now as an almost 50-year-old teacher, I attribute a lot of my health to, you know,

those habits I developed, you know, in PE, the health habits, and then the, you know, constant

moving and being able to work out and start your morning with some stretches and some calisthenics.

And certainly that's toned down quite a bit to some minor movement. But, you know, I believe those

years really helped my health now as a, you know, an ageing old voice.

Wow. Well, John, one more thing I just wanted to ask. So, you really were inspired by that

active, just not just in class, but a lifestyle of activity and being an active person.

Can you give us an example of just when you're as an educator, how do you bring that into the

classroom with you? Well, yeah, man, I just don't expect that students should be sitting down

the whole time they're in my class or just all day long. Like, when I was a high school teacher,

it was really important to me also as a coach to involve as many students as possible, not just

my own athletes, but all students in any of the intermural athletics or other activities,

just big group workouts, you know, having that before school or, you know, you're off

hour after school before math tutoring, you could go lift, you know, you could engage in some

burn and off some energy. Also, wow, we're going to attach some learning to it. So definitely

influenced my classrooms. One of my math classrooms, Jacob, I got a grant to have, again,

building off a class and session on Wednesday, a grant to have, you know,

alternate energy exploration in my science and math classroom through a role of bikes we had

in the back of the class. And everyone back then, YouTube wasn't as popular as it was now,

but it was starting to really take off. And I would say, hey, if we want to watch some sports

highlights or you want to elect to have some YouTube, we got to ride bikes in the back of class

after the lesson. If you finish with your practice problems and you help at least one person,

you can hop on a bike and you can build up some energy and the energy powered our projector.

And we'd watch, you know, for 15, 20 seconds of, you know, sports center or some kind of athletics

clips on YouTube. So I mean, that's just a little bit of like, you know, kind of always trying to go

with the flow and not against it, you know, having students have opportunity to be moving, you know,

movement is part of how we not only learn to stuff up here in our brains, but how we, you know,

develop life habits and get our bodies, you know, acclimated to constantly, you know,

being ready to move. It's just a good skill. We don't want to always be sedentary.

Absolutely. And something I like about that, and I'm going to make a note of this. We're not

going to talk about it today. But I've heard a lot of discussion in the education space about how

do teachers best deal with young men in the classroom in high school, middle school, whatever,

and behavioral issues, if you're not being met with what they need. And that anybody can enjoy

hopping on a bike, but especially I think with young boys and young men having that, you know,

that sort of competitive atmosphere or that, hey, if we get things done, we can hop on those bikes,

we can watch a little sports center, things like that. That might be worth doing a show on

at some point, getting into those, those intricacies, because I think sometimes, I mean, those

strategies that you're talking about, Johnny, not even purposeful, maybe, but those things really do

help. Tim, I want to hear the same question to you. Going back way back into history when Tim was

a student rather than an educator, what was the good experience you had? And how did that help

inform you as a teacher? Man, I don't know. Johnny put me on a spot there. It's so, so deep and

memorable he had their experience. Wait, you could have said all that in that.

No, you know, one of my, I actually have probably, you know, lots of them on top of lots of really

horrible experiences, shaped as an educator. Good experience. I know. The good ones.

Fourth grade, Mr. Lawrence, my first male teacher, 1977, probably it was, Mr. Lawrence at that time

too. If you knew about, you know, the style and the fashion at that time, Mr. Lawrence had a

permed afro. Yeah. He was not a person of color. He was, you know, and had that permed afro.

He was just a person of style. He was, well, yeah, you know, he had the John Travolta

shoes on the dancing shoes. And no, he was just, he was one of those, he was a cool guy.

Um, he gave a different take to what it meant to, um, experience an educator. So for me,

it was, it was an inspiration. I mean, he would, he would do things like, you know, get visibly

frustrated with us to a point though that it didn't become as if we hurt his feelings in a way.

There wasn't the, the guilt associated with it that I kind of, I'm kind of gender stereotyping

there. But, but a lot of the, you know, teachers up to that point when they were upset with you,

that there was more of a prevalent technique of, of some form of shame. Mr. Lawrence was just pissed.

And he'd, he'd take a couple steps across the front of the room, turn and just let go of a piece

of chalk against the wall. And that piece of chalk would hit the wall and blow up into a cloud of

dust. And man, we were like, all right, we better shut up. And we were there. And so there was

something real about him. But there was also a part though that, that really came across.

Um, you know, maybe for, for, for a boy like me, he, that, that gender change in fourth grade to

have this man, um, who, you know, really was more of kind of like a, a, a figure of, of respect

to his real. He talked to us in ways that I genuinely felt that he saw us as little people as

opposed to little kids. I mean, I felt like a real person there. And that experience, I mean,

really left the lasting impression on me to kind of, I guess, model that as, as I became a teacher

myself, um, you know, throwing that in there too. One other teacher, boy, and I,

there, I had incredibly great female teachers too. But I'm just pointing out, you know, here,

Mr. Rush going with, uh, Johnny's great phys ed and health teacher, um, you know, talk about a

great name for, for a gym teacher, Mr. Rush. Um, you know, but he did one thing where it was, you

know, um, he picked me to be a, to be a gym teacher for the day. And, um, you know, it wasn't because,

you know, again, five, well, at that point, what, maybe four point two, four foot two, I don't know,

I'm only five, seven now. Um, but, um, wasn't, you know, that great, amazing athlete, but I,

you know, I was coordinated and, um, he said, you know, I think that you have, um, a sense of,

what do you say? He's like, you have a presence in phys ed class and I'd, you know,

like you to be teacher for the day. And that experience of being gym teacher for the day,

I think it was seventh grade. Yeah. Seventh grade Woodlawn Middle School. Um,

uh, you know, that trust, maybe that's what it was too. It was a trust again, a kind of treatment

of me as a, as a person and, and not a child in need of, you know, uh, discipline being, uh,

challenged in ways to make me understand that the world, you know, isn't going to be easy.

Out there, selecker. Um, it's just this opportunity to, to engage and be a teacher and be treated

like again, a, a, a person as opposed to a student in need of some form of correction or some form

of needing to be taught something. It was giving me an opportunity to, to actually demonstrate some,

some leadership and what a great learning opportunity to have to plan a phys ed class for my peers.

Um, in seventh grade, not an easy time to be any type of child middle school. Um, you know,

kind of rough at that point. But so, Mr Lawrence, Mr. Rush, those two experiences, and I think what

it comes down to is is that they both saw me and my classmates as people, people and they had

relationships with us that valued us as people. Um, and I'm going to tell you that I bet that most

of my classmates who experienced those teachers would, would say the same thing. Um, Mr. Rush was

great. He'd come in, you know, brought in his cross or his, uh, compound bow during hunting season

would show it to us, you know, be out there. Um, it's just a real, real guy who was, had no problem

sharing with us what he did on his off time. So I think it was that it was just the, the expression

of them of being real. And then I'll put that across any other teacher I've ever had, uh, throughout

all of my experience, it's those teachers, female male, for sure, crawling across. It's that sense

of how they see the people in front of them as, again, whether it's fourth grade kindergarten, my own

aunt, Mrs. Lecker, they treated us like individual people who we had our own thoughts in our own

ways of being and they brought out the best enough. So boy, that talk about a kind of mellow,

dramatic, like, whoa, Tim, that's not very exciting. It was. So those were great experiences. And I

used those experiences as the, as the models for how I wanted to become and be a teacher when I,

when I got that opportunity to stand in front of little people myself.

Well, Tim, I think anything with a compound bow is a pretty exciting story.

So I don't sell yourself short on that. It's interesting to me that I, I really didn't intend

for this conversation to go in that direction in any way, but Johnny, with your story and then Tim,

talking about, you know, that memory that sticks out to you so prominently is being, oh,

your first male teacher as a kid is something worth noting or something that had an impact on you.

You hear guys like Scott Galloway or Jonathan Hyte, they talk about, you know, rudderless young

boys and men. Maybe there is something there to talk about. I would be interested to kind of

delve into that more if we found the right way to do it. But yeah, we should do a class in session

on Jacob, put it in the books because it is a research and documented phenomenon in education.

And it's often, especially in this particular political climate wherein one that's been

frowned upon more recently, but, you know, for a better part of a decade or more, there were

concerted efforts to make teaching more diverse and predominantly younger white women. And so I'll

extend that, you know, that experience Tim has extends to like say like a Latino young woman

having a Latina teacher is incredibly inspirational, you know, for a young black boy to have,

you know, black male teacher as a massive impact on how they see themselves in the future,

much like Tim shared. So there was a really strong concerted effort to make sure that kids in this

country had really diverse representation and who were their teachers over their say 12 plus

a years of being in a classroom. I'd like to believe that still exists and those efforts are

there, but that falls under that, that DI stuff that politically is, you know, kind of frowned upon

at least by this particular funding administration. But what, what, what, what, what Jacob's a tool on

that, you know, kind of in one, because I, yeah, I follow Scott Galloway prof G a lot. In fact,

you know, let Jacob, there you go, like you put out an invitation to prof G, get him on, you know,

we'll have it, we'll have a whole Saturday show with Scott Galloway. But, but yeah,

rudderless boys, right, that idea is, you know, there's something there, right? And by acknowledging

that, that doesn't then take away from Johnny's bigger picture of recognizing that all children,

different ways, you know, need that, that kind of, yeah, a model that, that gives them an ability

to see themselves. I do think though that Galloway and Height are onto something by really talking

about young boys, particularly right now. And boy, let, yeah, let's, let's, let's dig into that one

day, you know, it might be semi-politically incorrect to talk about men and boys having problems.

But the other deeper research on that is that, you know, when it comes to any type of depressions

or anxieties, men tend to go inwards in ways that are very unhealthy. And so, you know, as we're

thinking about that, you know, our teachers are role models, potentially a way to kind of help

move that in a direction that doesn't just, again, create a real problem in, you know, the future

of rudderless young boys and men when they become adults and the realities that are there. A little

bit of a u-turn there, Jacob, but I appreciate the reference to Prof. G, because I've actually listened

to quite a few of his interviews with Jonathan Height. I think it's an important subject, especially

because young boys and young men, they can be capable of doing some very good things in the world.

But if left to, to fester or not given proper guidance, they can also do a lot of bad things in

the world. So I think it's something important for, for men and something important for women too

that, that young boys and young men are, are given a good education and given the proper

ability to grow. Now, speaking of this, this subject that we're on right now, a couple of young

boys you two used to be, I wanted to ask you the inverse question from where we started, Tim,

what was a bad experience you had as a student that taught you something that you brought over to

being an educator? Mr. Labetta, 10th grade algebra. Jacob, I'm going to, I'm going to make a very

clear and simple to you. As Mr. Labetta pointed out, there is the right way to do algebra.

There is the wrong way to do algebra. There is Labetta's way to do algebra.

The right way is wrong. The wrong way is wrong. The only right way is Labetta's way.

This sounds like a good experience.

And what the, you know, guess what? So any time I had any challenge in math, and Johnny knows,

as I've talked about it, my math experience was horrible. And that was just one way again of

cementing the, there's only one way. In fact, the funny part was truly, if you got the right answer

using your own way of figuring out, it was wrong. And so think about how the, actually,

you know, lands for creating, you know, an interest at that time in math and algebra was,

is that, well, crap, if I can't even figure it out the right way and the right way is wrong,

you know what? Well then, heck, somebody else can do this math crap. I've got to get out of here,

man. So that, I mean, that's my, that, that to me. And that is an example of lots of ways that

I think teachers approach teaching and learning that shut me down. And I think shuts kids down

everywhere is, is that concept of, you know, you're going to do it my way. I'm going to show you the,

you know, not only the right way, but the right, right, right way. And boy, you know, again,

for all those people that understood libettas way, they're like, you know, great, but for all of us

who sat there going, I don't get it. Horrible experience. Would it be safe to say, then, Tim,

that that experience that you had might be part of why you're so open-minded to different ways of

doing things and coming at problems from multiple approaches? Absolutely, Jacob. No, yeah, I mean,

yeah, it is. I mean, those are the experiences that, that kind of move you in a, in a direction to say,

man, why are they making this learning thing so awful? Because it is so interesting to not know

the right answer, but yet be encouraged to dig at it to learn. And so that to me was,

wow, why would we ever shut learning off to kids, particularly when most kids are sitting there

in some way, shape or form going, man, I would love to actually be validated that I like to

learn and give me the opportunity. So absolutely, Jacob, hand in it over, man.

Very good, Tim. Johnny, same question to you, man. What was a negative experience you had as a

student and how did that inform the type of teacher you ended up becoming? But I had many, many, many,

and in some of them, as I grew older, I learned where, you know, integral and part of discipline

process. But I think, I think the biggest ones that I learned were the influence to kind of

teacher I became was if you truly don't enjoy being around young people and people who are out

there less than who do this. They enjoy being around young people. They know that with that

enjoyment and responsibility is it's built in that they're going to make mistakes. They're going to

do things differently like Tim experienced or they're going to misbehaved sometimes because that's

part of learning to behave. So I think the teachers that truly, you know, didn't show grace or

patience, especially to students with with needs. I was pretty empathetic and sensitive to the fact

that, you know, I had teachers who, you know, singled students out or who were, you know,

put them down or who, you know, didn't adapt things in the classroom. They just didn't have any

patience. And I get it sometimes we could be a real pain in the, you know, what? As students,

but it really stuck out to me. And when I decided to become a teacher, it was really clear to me the

kind of teacher I didn't want to be with someone who was going to be, you know, contributing to a

person's life in a negative way. I think a lot of teachers don't always realize that they're doing

that when they do it. So those little, there's so many little instances, you know, where discipline

wasn't disciplinary. It was more punishment. And it was more for the teachers need than it was for

the communication, the young person I was in class with or it was even myself was communicating.

So like, hey, all behavior is a form of communication. And I understood that as a kid,

mostly when my peers were getting in more trouble than I was, because I usually made a choice to

get in trouble. But I was around kids who sometimes were getting in trouble for stuff. It was

clear they had no control, you know, right? How fast they could read a page or complete a math

worksheet. You know, and so it always really bugged me that the teachers that weren't fair comes

back to Tim's good experience. When teachers are real, I didn't, I never really mind if a teacher

shows emotion gets upset. It's how they handle that. Do they have tools to be patient and understand

that in this process, young people are supposed to make mistakes and they're communicating something to

us. That doesn't mean that anything goes. But some of my favorite teachers could be categorized as

strict. But everything they were strict about made sense. And they were for our own good. And they

weren't about punishment as much as they were about discipline. So I read that in those instances

really stuck with me, you know, the kind of mean, meaningless punishment. Like, hey, you're going

to miss part of recess. Why? You know, because you didn't do X, Y, or Z. It's like these things

aren't connected. So later on Jacob, when I was becoming a teacher, I learned about the importance

of natural consequences that help prepare you for life. Like a teacher could have said, hey,

you're going to have to spend five minutes of your recess finishing this task because it's an

important task would have made more sense to me other than a punishment. You're going to miss

some time at recess. So it's sometimes just about the adult's ability to stay regulated and

communicate the natural consequence for the behaviors that that young people are having. And

remember, teachers out there is frustrating as it gets. And I've been there, right? We can get

frustrated. We're human. Young people are supposed to be making mistakes, right? And so it's really those

instances where, you know, I thought teachers kind of lost connection to that. Why we're all here

as a community, you know, is to learn to be better adults. We're not adults yet. So I, you know,

I, that kind of stuck with me, Jacob, I was learning to be a teacher. I kind of reminded myself,

you know, going to be that teacher who's there for the good and the bad, you know, who's real,

like Tim said, sometimes I'll get frustrated. And I'm going to make sure my consequences,

or like how I structure a classroom is all connected to natural consequences and make sense

and are communicated to the person. And if it's something they're not choosing to do,

like it's something like outside of their means, I'm going to try and figure out a way to make

that learning environment work for that young person. So that was kind of too much of my school

experience was if it didn't work for that teacher, you got sent on to the principal's officer,

you were out on the halls, you know, or you were disciplined on the spot by that teacher

in the usually some form of submission. And Tim alluded to this, like guilt or shame,

or even in its worst case, I think equally as worth just outright verbal abuse that, that too

often I witnessed as a student in experience that hopefully nowadays is fewer and further between

for young people, but I know it's out there. And so and it's tough to be a teacher.

So it's a daily practice to remember, hey, kids are supposed to make mistakes. That's why we have

school right to learn to be better adults. We're not adults yet. So let's get there.

So for all of our listeners out there, for everybody who's ever learned from you two gentlemen,

I think we can say that we have some teachers out there good and bad to thank

for turning you guys into the educators that you ended up becoming.

Absolutely, especially Mr. Lamata.

I would say. But Dr. Tim Slecker, Dr. Johnny Lupinacci, the best guests to ever go on their own

show. I have to say it again. I have to say it every time because it's so true. I've enjoyed talking

to you guys. We're coming to the end of the producer's choice here on Friday, but there's one

thing that we do at the end of every producer's choice show. And that is our very special

60 second segment. Let's go. So we're talking about you guys back in the 20th century,

talking about what shaped and molded you guys. One thing I think shaped and molded both of you.

I'm sure is Holkogen who tragically passed away last week. I know we all have a lot of thoughts

on it. So we're going to start with Dr. Tim Slecker. 60 seconds. What are your thoughts on Holkogen

and what he meant to you? It's a little, little Tim.

The Hulkster, Hulk Mania, Hulkster. Yeah, WrestleMania. When he came to prominence from a bad guy

to a good guy, when he picked up Andre the giant and body slammed him to take over the world

wrestling federation at the time, the WWF, and became the champion of all champions. The

Hulkster right there. That was special, man. Those moments, you know, things happened.

Wasn't, you know, wherever he he decided to take things and move in a direction,

you know, for me, picking up Andre the giant moving from bad guy to good guy. What a great

example right there. Hulkster. Thanks for that moment. That is a tremendous transition for

Holkogen going from bad to good. And we can all do that when we've made mistakes. We can all be

Hulk Hogan's and become better. And Tim, I like the beginning of your answer where you were like

Kaiser Soze looking around that room. Hulk Hogan, wrestler, wrestling, WrestleMania. I think we

all remember that part. Johnny, I want to hear your answer to what did Hulk Hogan mean to little

Johnny in 60 seconds. Well, Jacob, I'm glad that you asked me about little Johnny because big Johnny

wasn't a big fan. Obviously, folks like what we know about Hulk Hogan's politics and his,

you know, vocal racism and all those things. He turned he like that. Yeah. So for Hulk

amaniacs out there, let's revert back to like Jacob said, our young years. Man, I was a big

wrestling fan. Again, Tim that what stands out in my mind is that that epic moment when he did

body slam, the biggest man I'd ever seen in my life on television or anything. You know,

Andre, the giant was near and near to my heart as a wrestler and even as an actor, right? And all

those great ways that he contributed in the ways he did. But you know, I loved wrestling. Hulk

was certainly part of it. You know, the whole epic drama of the like the oh yeah, as in all the,

you know, extra hyperbole. You know, it wouldn't I teach that way. I talk that way. And I just wish

that and that later part of his life, which probably was with them the whole way. But I wish

that he wasn't, you know, remembered and known for being a racist. So, hey, if you're a racist

out there, change your ways. There you go. We don't remember you like we have to remember the Hulk

there. But yeah, man, you know, let's write like still rest in some piece. But let us learn in

those final lessons, you know, correct your ill ways because you'll be remembered for him.

How you treat people around you, even when there aren't cameras on you, stays with us. So,

that's my big thing like still a fan of wrestling. Want to remember those highlights of Hulkster.

But come on, man, you know, can't co-sign on the bad stuff.

I think that is the big lesson from today for educators, for students, all the little hogies need

to know that once you turn good, don't turn bad again later on in life, or people will not like

you anymore. Overall, guys, really good show. Great talking with you. Tim, Johnny, always happy to

have you. But Tim, I think there's time for one last thing. Yeah. Now it's time for your moment of

Zen. I started studying history with one view in mind to look for answers to the issues and problems

I saw in the world about me.

Thanks for listening to today's producer's choice. And if you want more Busted Pencils podcast,

what you can head on over to Apple Spotify, or you can always find us at civicmedia.com

or on our website, bustedpensils.com. And remember, you can always find great Busted Pencils

content every Monday for home room, Wednesdays for class and session. And on Fridays,

for the producer Jacobs' choice, like today's show. And of course, pencil busters, don't forget

about Saturdays. And listen to us as we drop our weekend broadcast every 3 p.m. central time

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