to
reading and doing the, you know, the call and its busted pencils, so never mind,
fully let it education talk. Yeah, you know, it's producer's choice, though,
Jacob's choice, Jacobs in charge. This is that day when Johnny and I get to be
guests on our own show. Um, and Johnny, before the show, you were kind of
given Jacob a little, are you ready to go? And he seemed fired up, man.
Well, Johnny didn't have anything to say about that. That's correct. That's how you
ready. He said, I'm ready to go. Let's do it. So he's he's bringing the fire
today. It's Jacob producer's choice. Guys, I'm ready to do this because I
checked and I actually went through the records and the archives of the busted
pencils show. And at this point, the average producer's choice show is twice
as long as the hour long Saturday show. So I've tried to trim us down, and this
is going to be a really good lean producers choice show. And I think people
are going to be really excited. But before they can get excited, let's listen to
the intro. For two, two producer, Jacob's choice, chairman of the board. You
and I will have two choices. Chairman of the board, Jacob. Oh, Jake chairman of
the board. I bet the board is spelled B-O-R-E-D. We choose to go to the
full life of tough choices. You chose one or two. This is the producer's choice
show. Thank you all for tuning in. Today, I'm lucky to have two great
guests on their own shows, Dr. Johnny Lupinacci and Tim Slecker. Fellas,
thanks for being here. Hey, you wouldn't miss it for the world, my guy. Thank you,
Jacob. Now, here's a topic that I think we're all curious about. How does one
actually become a teacher? Is it easy? Is it hard? Is it fun? Emotionally
draining? Or maybe all these things? I assume the answer is going to be, yes,
it's nuanced. Today, we're going to put our imagination caps on and imagine
that rather than being a rock star radio producer, I was instead an average
fledgling youngster with dreams of becoming a teacher one day. Tim and Johnny,
very simple. This is another one where you guys can work together. Where do I
start? Oh, where do you start, Johnny? I mean, huh? I mean, Tim, this is right up
your alley. I know. But, but I put out the disclaimer here, Jacob, we've lost
producers at sick media to this pathway before it's not actually a joke. It's
actually a real question that a lot of people have. And we had, we used to have
a lot of shows on this topic. So if you go into the back library of podcasts,
listen out there if you're so curious, you can back up and you can hear Tim and I
talk about all kinds of different pathways to becoming a teacher. But, Jacob,
there's a couple of paths. I'll say the most traditional. As in college,
you're out there, your college student, you're like, Hey, I think I might want to
be a teacher and you major in education. If you're looking at elementary and
middle school, and you pick kind of area to be certified in, and you kind of
major in it, and it becomes sort of your degree. That's sort of the old school
traditional pathway for, you know, young college students, you know, that we
call it kind of a traditional route to become a teacher. But Jacob, your
question, I think is a million dollar question, because there are so many
great folks out there who stumble into the passion for sharing their
knowledge with others. And they say, you know what, I actually like this part of
my job or this aspect of the career pathway I'm in. I like mentoring young
people. I like passing on my knowledge. I like teaching. Well, there are other
and increasingly more opportunities in this area. Call them alternate pathways to
become a teacher. And there are a few Tim, you want to kick a few out there?
Hey, yeah. Well, you said the traditional and Jacob, you're looking at the
results of a traditional pathway. That would be me. So I don't know if I'm
inspiring or if they do that. But you know what? And just got to give a, you
know, a nod to that producer we lost, Sam Davison. That's right.
Producer for the John and Gordy Morning Show on the Madison channel. And he
is in Jacob. He is in and it's kind of an apprentice type of program,
where he now is going back to in Wisconsin, Edgewood College, which
where I used to be a dean. And he will be taking his coursework online and he
will be working full-time in the Madison School District as a teacher's aid.
And while he is working full-time in taking his classes online, he will also be
getting paid to actually become a teacher. And so the apprentice pathway right
now is is one of those ways that you take somebody who's got a little
bit of experience. They, you know, could be a returning adult, somebody who
maybe already has a degree in say, you know, sociology or something. And they're
like, oh my god, there's nothing I can do with the soci, no, they just,
or they've worked and they're like, you know what? I really, as Johnny said, I
caught the fever, I caught the bug. I really want to be a part of, of either
sharing my knowledge, mentoring, youth or and or both, even saying, you know,
actually too, I'd like to be a coach for us, a sports team, things like that.
So having these, what they're referred to as alternative pathways for returning adults,
because Jacob, the traditional way, which Johnny used to say is as we did, you
know, you would have to go to college full-time as a student during the day, take
your classes over a four to, you know, maybe a four and a half year period. I
don't know. Some people it takes that long. And at the end, you student teach, and which is where
you pay lots of money to go out and do work for free. And then at the end of that, you become,
you become a teacher, but you could see that that pathway is very limiting in a setting where,
or a context right now, which is, oh my god, we need teachers. We have a teacher shortage.
If we have to fill the teacher shortage by sending 18 year olds to school for four years,
with all of that debt that they accumulate, I mean, we won't do this. And so what you're seeing now
are there are pathways that recognize that, you know what, there are a lot of people in our local
communities who are catching that bug. How do we help them return to school to get both the
license and a degree? And Jacob, and here's the other thing though, you can also always move to
Florida. I was going to say, we're big fans of teacher preparation programs, Jacob, we think that
it's, you know, like many careers to be great at something. And obviously here at Busted Pencils,
we believe pretty firmly that every kid out there deserves a highly qualified excellent teacher.
And so to become that, you want to go to accredited programs, but there are really exciting things
happening. One of the, one of my favorites, Jacob, that are around the country, you know, our MIT
programs called Master in Teaching, where maybe you got a degree in something like Tim mentioned
before. And you go into, for, for better or for worse, add or subtract a couple of months, it's about
a one year intensive program, where you take classes with peers, you are situated in a school,
you're getting your student teaching and your classroom experience, and you're going full
tilt for a year. And you come out of that with a master's degree and a teacher's license. And those
are really, really great programs because, you know, they're excellent teacher candidates. That's
what we call people who are studying to become teachers. And, and they get really great on the job
experience. And they also get that sort of class time to study, right? Education and classroom
practices and all that stuff. Those are great. There are also really cool, grow your own programs
happening around this country. And, and Jacob, one of the entry points, this is why it's a great
producer's choice question. One of the entry points that Tim and I all both throw out there for
folks is, you know, if you think this might be you, do some digging around in your local community,
reach out to your local administrators, because becoming a substitute teacher is tough work,
but it is good work and it's great pay. And you get a good experience of, hey, this is what
schools are like. And you're not expected to be an expert teacher yet. And you're not a babysitter.
So you kind of have some plans that teachers or schools leave you with. And you get to kind of test
drive what it's like to be in a classroom. So substitute teaching is a great way to get involved
and see if it's something you're interested in. The other kind of entry point is becoming a pair
educator, which is, you know, an adult helper in a school. These people are amazing. They help
out in the classroom. They get to see great teachers out there. They get to work one on one
with kids who might be struggling in class or who might need an aid throughout the day to get
through parts of the day that are particularly difficult for that kid. So you kind of get to see the
flow of average work day of great teachers out there. So those are two jobs they're paying. We
need them in all of our schools. There's always a high need for more pair educators and more
substitute teachers. But there are great grow your own programs sprouting up around the country
in these great states like Tim's talking about Wisconsin listeners. You're in a great state to
be a teacher and to become a teacher. So there are lots of these. But there are pathways where,
you know, school districts will say, hey, we have these really great subs. We have these amazing
pair educators. And we're partnering with a teacher training program to kind of, you know,
wrap around what their needs are. Maybe they can't move to say, you know, a college town and take
a couple of years of their life to become a teacher. But on the job, they can begin doing online
classes, you know, Zoom meetings, high brids, kinds of ways where they become teachers. And these
are great programs. Kavia out there, Jacob. We're talking about those great states with
consensus Michigan, New York, Washington. You know, I could keep going Colorado. I could keep name
in great states because there are more great states to be a teacher than there aren't. But in
those where I say it's not so great. Yeah. It's easier to get your teaching license than it is
your drivers. But that doesn't mean Jacob that there aren't great programs in those states. Right.
It just means that those teachers don't have to opt to be what's called highly qualified. Right.
And that's like that sort of nationally governed by, you know, what we've said before we've called
into question those accreditation agencies. But, you know, accreditation says, hey, this person
went through an accredited teacher program to kind of learn all the things, class or management,
learning theories, you know, strategies for teaching kids, different subjects like how to teach
math, how to teach reading, all these things that go into becoming a great teacher. They're not
required in every state, but I'll throw it out there. There are great teachers in programs in
Florida and in Texas, even though I picked on those two states, they don't have to get that
credential to become a teacher. But many of them do. Yeah. And those end up being really great
teachers in our schools. So those are a few of the options that are out there, Jacob. And I think
for listeners and for you, I think that that answers the question. And answers the question. And
I'll just, you know, give a little bit of more ump for emphasis to Johnny talking about too.
If you are making that kind of thought process that's coming across, I'd like to be a teacher.
You know, the idea of volunteering in your local school as a helper,
taking on a part time job as a parent, doing the substitute teaching though, those are, I believe,
if you're thinking about it, do that. Give it a try because you, you might come out and go,
you know what? I don't really want to be a teacher. What I imagined, I thought I would be doing
in what I've now witnessed as a substitute, as a parent, as a volunteer. It's really not something
I'm interested in. And that's perfectly fine. In fact, I would recommend and I would rather see
people who go, you know what? I gave it a try. It's not for me. And then move on. And so take
advantage of those opportunities. And I will tell you this though too, Johnny, I think the best
recommendation, if you can, and most states now too, have done this with the teacher shortage,
have actually made it, and I have some concerns about this, but have made it pretty easy
to become a substitute teacher. And what I'm saying is lower the credentials. So in 1990, when I
graduated, actually in the state of Pennsylvania, where I graduated, to become a substitute teacher
anywhere in the state, you were required to show that you had graduated and obtained a teaching
license before you can even be a sub. And now, in Ohio, where I just left, you know, as long as
you graduated high school, they were allowing you to become a substitute teacher on a part-time
basis. So yeah, Tim, you have to pass a background check. And you have to go through a training
process. But yeah, they've lowered that because of the high need for substitute teachers and
mortar dolls in our buildings. Yeah, right? It is out there. It's a great entry point, great way
to get some experience. It's not required though. I'll throw that out there too, Tim, because we might
have a listener out there who's like, Hey, I think I'd be a great teacher. You probably would be.
I mean, it's an affinity. It's a calling. And so sometimes we don't know that when we're 19
years old. And so maybe you're out there, you're an engineer, you're a computer programmer, or
whatever it is you are. You're a server out there. You've got great, you know, people skills.
And you've really enjoyed communicating what you know with patients and being a regulated adult,
you're good and stressful environments. You know, you genuinely like seeing young people do well.
Well, we need junior schools. So you can get involved and become a teacher without having to sort
of, you know, pay your dues as a substitute. I just threw it out there as like, Hey, that's one of
the ways that people kind of get involved and sort of catch that bug. And then they say, Ooh,
I want to apply for these scholarships into these accelerated programs. And those are the
candidates that are oftentimes, you know, accepted. And there are great opportunities out there
to have your education paid for, right? And to become a teacher.
John, yeah. And Jacob, I know you're, you're kind of gone, okay, you guys work. We promised that
this one would be nice and tight. You're very unruly. Frankly, I'm going to go back and forth
with all this teacher commentary. Well, you know, when you, when you serve it up the both of us,
free reign to take as much time as we want. But Jay, I, you know, give it a couple of shows.
Like Johnny said, we've done some shows featuring some of these, you know, alternative programs. And
in fact, in Michigan, we interviewed a bus driver. She was a bus driver for the school district.
And while she was still a full-time bus driver, she got in a program at Western Michigan University
that allowed her to keep her full-time job as a bus driver while she was also learning and
taking classes to be a teacher. And that tuition was fully paid for through this program,
through the, through the state of Michigan. So, I mean, it's, and I put that out there because
I really want to give the opportunity, if anybody's out there thinking, boy, I'd like to be a teacher,
but I can't because I'm a, well, hey, what do you mean I'm a, you know, or I'm only a, you know,
this was, you know, we've talked to that. When I was down in Tennessee, met this incredible
stay-at-home mom who in her, you know, 30s just decided, you know what, I want to do this.
And there was a teacher apprentice program. In fact, the first teacher apprentice program in
the country was in Tennessee. And because of that apprentice program, she was able to go to school
full-time, for free, and get paid by the school district to become a teacher. And the support
that went into a lot, to not allowing, but creating the opportunity to have an incredibly great person
have an ability to become a teacher in her local community. So, I don't know, is this just a one
part or Jacob? This is a seven-part series we're doing and how to, how to convince me to become a
teacher. I like where you guys are taking this, because I think we can all understand sort of in
abstract how an 18-year-old goes about becoming a teacher. You know, the particulars might be
worked out at the university, but you go to college, you get a degree, and you become a teacher,
that makes sense. Bringing in this other direction about people who later in life decide to become
teachers is an interesting one. Now, I think what I've learned most of all is that I'm more of a
floor-to-teacher based on what you've been telling me. I find I thrive in low-standard environments,
but let's say I'm going to try to do this in Wisconsin. I'm here, I want to become a teacher,
because I produce a podcast, the hosts are kind of mean to me sometimes, and I think I'll just
deal with kids and said they're easier to control. Where do I start? Let's say just in the 24 hours
after I have the idea. What is my first thing I should do because I'm thinking about being a teacher?
Do I go and look for these job postings to become a substitute teacher? Do I call? Do I try to find
a friend who knows a teacher? Get that one-on-one meeting to just see what it's like? Where do I start?
Because a lot of people, that's something that they really struggle to get over. Just how do I get
on the path? All of the things that you said are all great starting points. I mean, for people who
like process and procedure, go to the Department of Public Instructions website in Wisconsin and
look under the teacher shortage, and it lays out all of the approved pathways. But the other one,
Jacob, I think really is that you already live in a school district in that area. Make a call
and to that local school and say, I'm interested in becoming a teacher. Can I have some time
to talk to some teachers, talk to some principals? Because the other thing is that those schools
may have their own ability to say on top of the Department of Public Instruction and the Wisconsin
Teacher Apprenticeship Scholarship, our local school district has this also available.
For anybody who really wants to find that list of eight, let me say, agencies,
in their higher education institutions for the most part, that have these partnerships locally
with school districts. Johnny put it in the chat, which I'm sure Jacob, you'll put in the
podcast notes. But for Wisconsin, you know, right there. And if anybody has a UW in their backyard
or any of the great private colleges around there, I bet they have some form of a teacher type
apprentice program. Absolutely. And we say it all the time here on the show, education is a state
right. And so whatever state you're listening in, if you're interested, just go to the state
Department of Public Instruction. Every state has one, right. And in their website, if you just
Google into it, you know, becoming a teacher, a pathway to become a teacher in and fill in your state,
you'll have a number of options. And like Tim said, real practical step here is the, you know,
link will share it in the podcast description. But you click on that and you can see there's all
kinds of different choices that you have in different ways you might want to become a teacher.
Maybe you're a trade specialist, you know, maybe you have a particular area of expertise,
or maybe just in general, you're interested in, you know, education and in schools. Do you want
to be a teacher? Do you just want to work with young people? Because there are a lot of ways,
right, that the pathway to becoming a teacher. As Tim said, sometimes branches up and you find out
you want to be a school counselor, or you'd like to be an administrator or a speech pathologist or
language specialist, you know, all these different things. It takes a village to have good, strong
schools, and we try in every state, even those states we give a hard time to, right. I will advocate,
those states have these resources available for people and just didn't be coming a teacher. So
that's kind of your first step, Jacob. You know, talking about the teacher shortage and the need
for teachers and the need for subs and the need for people to get involved, would you guys say that
this is a pretty good time for people who are thinking about becoming teachers to do so, because
it sounds like, I mean, if you want to do it, that you can start doing it. Absolutely. I mean,
I'm always saying it's the right time. And it unfortunately, Jacob, as you know, it's a tough
career. There's no easy work out there. I'll say that, right. People who are great at what they do
work hard every day and teachers most certainly do that. And it's not for everyone because it is
strange hours, right. And it requires a certain level of sort of patience and ability to flow with
all kinds of different energies in a room, especially when we're talking about young people,
right. So, you know, it's not for everyone, but for those who are like, hey, it might be interesting
to me. Check it out. Yeah, Jacob. It's a great time. I say this every year. I teach a new group of
teachers. I say, it's one of the hardest times to become a teacher. But it's also one of the
most amazing times to become a teacher. And I guess I'm letting a secret out of the bag right
now. Jacob, I've said that for all 25 years that I've been, you know, teaching teachers. So,
you know, it is, it is always a high need. I think it's an amazing career. It's in a wonderful
way to, you know, share your expertise and invest in the future. Yeah. Absolutely. And again,
for all of the people listening, check out the show notes too when they're up because I also
put in the National Center for Teacher Residencies and the National Grow Your Own
Organization. Each of those national organizations will point you in all kinds of different
program directions that if you're interested. And Johnny, you know, I just, you know, the reason
why I think a push in this though too is because on top of it being, as Johnny said, a best great
time, the ability to really, you know, have states and or national organizations, the funding
and financing is really there for the first time in a long time. And, you know, that on top of,
if you're thinking about it, yes, it's absolutely a great time. And you know what? It's a really
great time from the standpoint of going, you know what? The funding that's available to become a
teacher right now, particularly for people outside of the traditional pathway. It's a great time,
Johnny. Yeah. And I'll throw out there a couple of other things that, you know, popped into my mind
as we were talking that are examples of people I know who have come to me over the years and said,
have really interested in teaching. Similar to Jacob, your question today. And another thing we
didn't really mention is you can volunteer and be a helper at Lake. We had, you know, Matthew Mooney
on here who talked about eSports. You know, you can join a club at your local public education,
like your local public high school, you can reach out and say, hey, you know, I'm really great at
chess. I love playing chess. I noticed you have a chess club, or you'd be interested in having
a volunteer. You'll spend some time with the chess club. You could start to engage in sort of what
we call not extracurriculars, but essentials here at Busted Pencils. And you could kind of get your
foot in the door in terms of, oh, here's how schools work. Here's what's like to be around young people.
The other thing, I guess this is more of like a where you're at in life option, because for a lot
of people, you know, they're already having to work, you know, a full-time job in order to pay
bills and live and whatnot. But say you have some flexibility. Another really great option
is doing some time you could teach English in other countries. So a lot of future teachers I find
have gotten the teaching bug. They've, you know, gone a broad and taught English for a year or two.
And they're really great teaching English abroad programs. If you might have some flexibility in
your life and you're not, you know, geographically locked into one place, you might go, you know,
teach English for a year or something overseas. And that kind of experience sets a lot of
future teachers also up for a really great pathway to education. I'll put one more out there too.
I think Tim has experience with that as well. As I would say, almost I always have a handful of
students who are, I'll call non-traditional students, they're a little older, you know, they've
some life experience. And they come from our, from our military services. Yeah. If you're a veteran
out there or you're, you know, you're, you're done, you've done some time, like maybe you're in the
army or you were in the Navy or the Air Force. I will say that experience sets a lot of teachers
up for high success. And there are great programs for pathways for veterans to becoming teachers.
And that's another great one. But yeah, volunteer, help coach, support, be part of one of those
essential curriculars, you know, get involved. And doors kind of open for you in that, in that
career shift. Jacob. Yes, too. How do we do? Well, to summarize for, for me, as a perspective
teacher and, and for all the people out there who have thought about teaching, but never,
just never had the exact moment where they went and did it. I think what I'm hearing from you guys
is there's a lot of different ways that you can start this journey, whether it's going to your
department of public instruction, figuring out some of the pathways, calling local school,
seeing how you can get involved. I think the point that we would like people to go away with
is that just pick up that phone, make that first call. There are many ways that you can get involved.
That, that sound right to you guys? Yeah, libraries too. I mean, I'm just one of those guys who
keep going and going. I mean, you ask me questions. Yes. Libraries is another great one.
Your local YMCA or like youth and community programs, great opportunity to connect with,
you know, programming that's happening in your community. Another great entryway or summer
camps, like becoming, you know, a camp counselor or an outdoor educator, maybe, you know,
you're a forestry person or you're someone working out, you know, in landscaping and you love
being outside, you know, get a job or, you know, volunteer to be an outdoor educator and learn some
of those education components that I will say really great teachers. I know on those alternate
routes, they have those kinds of experiences that kind of sealed the deal for them. They're like,
yeah, I definitely would like to be doing this full time with the salary and benefits and all those
great things that come with being a public school teacher in a great state like Wisconsin.
Now usually summaries do not add more information that was previously discussed, but guys,
they do here, they do here, plus the pencils, we keep piling it on. Thank you so much for being here.
I really have enjoyed the show so far. It's a Friday once again. But because it's a Friday once
again, we always like to close out with this final segment of the program. It's a little,
little thing we do here. Let's go. Timothy, tell me,
Pitch a perspective young teacher out there why they should get into this thing of yours.
Well, there is no other position, path forward career that has the ability truly to change the world.
And that's all there is right there. That's a darn good answer. Johnny, try to follow that up in 60
seconds. Yeah, be real quick. If you yourself like things to be different at work every day,
to be challenged all the time, to be thrown a curve ball in terms of maintaining your own
health and balancing it and giving to others, then teaching is for you, man. It's never the same.
It's not a desk job. It's like being out in the field every day. It's exciting. There's highs,
there's lows. It's a roll of coaster, but it's a blast. And I wouldn't do any other career
than that. So if you know if you're interested in it, I'd say go for it and give it a spin.
Folks, I've been your host, producer Jacob. I want to thank Johnny Lupinacci,
Tim Slecker, the best guests that have ever been on their own show. Guys, thank you so much for
being here. And I want to thank producer Jacob for putting this whole thing together. But Tim,
I think it's time for something. Yeah. Well, now it's time for your moment of sin.
There are people everywhere who want to see a different kind of world, who want to be at
one with their fellow man, men and women who think that people in other countries are human beings
as we are. And that if somebody is suffering anywhere in the world, we have a responsibility to help
them. Oh, yeah, man and women, ladles and jelly spoons. Thank you for listening to today's
producer's choice podcast with that's right. Tch, Tch, Tch, Tch, Tch, chairman of the board, Jacob.
And if you want to grab more busted pencils podcasts, but you just head on over to Apple,
Spotify, or you can always get at us at the civicmedia.com website or on our own website,
bustedpensils.com. And remember, you can always find great content every Monday for home room,
Wednesdays for class and session and on Fridays for producer Jacob's choice. And of course,
pencil busters. Don't forget on Saturdays, you can listen to the busted pencils weekend broadcast
at 3 p.m. Central time across all the civic media networks for one hour for your favorite blue color
scholar. Tim and Johnny, and keep busted pencils.