This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk.
Here are your hosts, Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,
and Jacob, educated educators talking education.
Man, love that Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk,
educated educators talking, you know, education.
Although it's producer's choice day, Jacob's choice.
Yeah, and you heard him in there.
You know, Dr. Johnny, Dr. Tim and Jacob.
Found him like Mr. Bill.
Remember that skit?
Yeah, yeah.
Mr. Bill.
Oh, yeah, that's me.
Jacob.
Yeah, Jacob's our Mr. Bill.
I don't believe not over here.
It seems like somebody might have somebody might have Mr. Bill.
You then look at that.
Okay, for for the for anybody watching on YouTube right now,
if you had an aversion to blood, we apologize,
profusely for Johnny Lupinacci showing you his bleed out, right?
Yeah.
The only thing I have profuses our apologies is the amount of blood coming out of Johnny's leg.
There he is.
Well, hey, you can, you can obviously tell it is Friday and producer's choice.
Jacob's choice.
That's right.
Right away.
We're already in that mood because, yeah, this is the day of the week.
This is the podcast of the week where it's the fun of all fun.
Yeah, things get a little bit crazy because Tim and Johnny just have to kind of sit there
and think a little bit because it's all in Jacob's hands.
Jacob, what's going on with you?
What do you got for us today, my friend?
Well, Tim, Johnny, you're absolutely right about one thing.
It is time for the producer's choice show.
Anything goes, it's going to be producer's choice.
Oh!
You and I will have two choices.
Chairman of the board, Jacob.
Oh, Jacob's chairman of the board.
I bet the board is spelled B-O-R-E-D.
We choose to go to the mood.
Life's a tough choice in here.
We chose Boane.
Tim, Johnny, I appreciate you being here so much.
It's an honor to have you here on your own show, honestly.
I mean, to get to interview two geniuses like you guys means a lot to me.
And especially because you were talking about this is a fun show.
And I thought I'd throw a wrench in that and ask you hard questions today.
Uh-oh.
I will do you into a false sense of security with that wacky AI show last week.
I'm going to get my gotcha questions out for the next one.
Is Johnny going to be able to handle it with the the bleeding episode
that's occurring right now?
He's going to be just fine.
I'm going to be all right Tim.
It's a lot of blood.
Just a lot of blood.
But other than that, he's absolutely fine.
And if anything, he'll give some interesting answers
with this new lightheaded delirium.
He said, and I think that'll be fun for for the folks at home.
So to introduce this one, guys, we're finally leaving budget season behind
both here in Wisconsin and across the country.
Governor Tony Evers has signed Wisconsin's new budget
and President Trump's big beautiful boondoggle is soon to take effect.
This comes after weeks and weeks of arguments
from both sides of the political divide over every aspect of our respective budgets
from forestry to sanitation, policing to rural Wi-Fi
and everything in between.
We've just discussed every possible thing that a government can possibly fund.
There's one thing about funding and budgeting that a novice like myself
an uneducated educator one might say still doesn't quite understand.
And that's why today I've asked two experts in education to join me here on their own show.
Dr. Tim Slecker, Dr. Johnny Lupinacci.
Thank you both for being here today.
You betcha Friday wouldn't miss it for the world.
Yeah, always kind of ready to go.
You know, Tim, you make me nervous, Jacob.
I'm here to guide you safely into wonderful discussions to him.
I'm not here to get you, despite that thing I said about the question.
So anyway, now they have two experts like you here.
I have a question that I'd like to ask that I think that two education experts
like yourselves can help me with.
Fellas, I'd like to start off by asking you if both of you together could explain to me and the audience.
How is education funded in America?
Hmm.
All right, Johnny, I'm going to jump in quickly because I know you've got a whole lot to say on this.
I mean, we could do it together.
I'll fill in the gaps.
How is it funded because as Johnny points out on the show ain't nothing free.
Okay, so when we say a free public education to all citizens in this country.
Sometimes people go, ain't free.
You know, it costs something.
And in fact, you always typically hear the we got to quit throwing money at public education because it doesn't get a lot of results.
And that assumes something that Jacob people have money to be throwing.
So let's let's first kind of break it down.
The idea of a public education system rooted in democracy.
Is that first we believe that education is responsible, the responsibility of education falls on us, the citizens of the townships, the communities, the states.
And I'm going to stop right there at states because this is a state's rights issue that Johnny's going to say.
And from our earliest kind of visions of what public education in America is and how are we going to fund this?
Well, the simplest way is this that through your taxes, right?
Specifically, what has happened for American public education in the states is is that that comes mostly from real estate taxes or people who have property within a boundary of a school district.
There's a proportion of what they pay every year or quarterly, however it is.
And that goes to the school system in that area and then that money gets divvied out across students.
That's the primary funding mechanism for public schools.
So everybody within that area.
Well, and I'd be careful with Johnny homey with the everybody, maybe not, but we're all supposed to be coming together to put in a little of something that we have because we want to generate a public education system that delivers the best quality system of
you know, not compliance, that was the other show.
You know, no, bringing together a public education system.
And so it's through taxes, Johnny.
Yeah, I think that's great way.
And I'm just going to break it into the simple simplified even more Tim, because I think you're going to you're going to simplify.
Well, yeah, because it's it's a good question that Jacob brings up, especially coming off of these debates about budgets and and I'll own this.
I'm going to be saying we're under funding education, right?
So who am I saying that to?
Well, I'm saying that to state legislators, right?
I'm also saying that to our federal politicians who could do more right now.
It's a little tough.
I can see like we're handcuffed with the big beautiful bill, you know, the dismantling of the Department of Ed.
But when I teach this in school, right, I bring out the pie chart.
So I'm going to do a little bit of like the pie chart, Jacob, right?
And I'm going to sort of generalize a bit.
Tim nailed it.
You know, education is a state, right?
So states that the budgets for what schools are getting in terms of how much money they're getting per pupil to do operations to sort of run, run schools.
But think about it like this about somewhere in the low 40 percentage percentage of funding for schools comes locally in your state.
Tim talked about property taxes is sort of the primary impetus for this school district collect taxes based on the assessed value of homes, right?
And businesses within their boundaries.
And this sometimes creates some inequality because let's say for I'll just pull a random example.
Maybe I have a company like Amazon and my business district, right?
And so the tax kind of money that's going into that local school area could be astronomically disproportionate.
So typically it's about 40% of the money is funded through local kinds of property taxes or business taxes.
Somewhere in the other low 40 percentage of this very state to state is coming at the state level.
So most of the funding, if you can imagine the pie graph were, you know, at a minimum of 80% of that pie graph.
Is either local, my surrounding community, the neighborhood, the how the home values and the business taxes locally.
And then the state funding. So at the state level, you know, there's another big chunk of what's 80% of the money going to schools.
The remaining amount is federal funding is usually around 12%.
You know, I know if I was, you know, in a state that funds only 40% locally 40% we are only at 80 or I could say could get up to 20.
But it's usually the low 40s. It's usually around 12% that's funded by federal funding.
And that's sort of something that we're going to keep a close eye on right now.
Because as we've heard, right, those funds are being cut significantly.
It's already a small amount.
But even that small amount, it's the things like individuals with disabilities, education act that's funded or title one right for schools with high percentages of low income students.
Those are federal programs that primarily have made up about, you know, 12% of the budget are making up that rest.
Additionally, Tim, you mentioned this too, everybody in Wisconsin knows this well.
And most listeners around the country are familiar with this.
When there's something specific, a district wants to do that they don't have enough money in the tax base for or the state's not funding.
They have to do things like bonds, special levies, grants, fundraising activities.
So increasingly, we're seeing more of that slice of the pie, the pie chart, needing to be accounted for by those historically additional sources.
And everybody here knows that that's that vote that happens when we're saying vote yes on the levy vote yes on the grants right vote yes on the bonds to build a new building or, you know, have a new facility for a track and field program or those things.
Things that are often we say here on, but it depends on essentials that historically were covered through state funding or local funding is just not there right.
So if you think about the pie 80% or more of it even is state or local tax dollars right and primarily.
So the other thing Jacob I'll throw on there because you're making it a nerdy Friday for us and I'm living up to that expectation as I'm bleeding out here.
And you're geeking out yeah, the additional part of that is that states not all, but a lot of states.
And that's why I say when we say schools are underfunded and we're speaking to legislators are we're people like in Wisconsin go to the capital right and speak in Madison on behalf of what are the needs of our say rural schools are urban schools are just our public schools in general.
They're advocating that legislators, you know, provide the essentials and that's what we often say here on buses pencils that we've underfunded education that it's expensive to have strong public schools and we're continually putting more on not not calling anybody a moron but we're putting additional.
You know responsibility on local citizens through those additional sources so as we need to do more as things cost more.
For our schools and communities that burden has been placed on the everyday family right or the everyday small business in our local communities to to you know pick up the slack.
And what we say state to state over and over again especially in Wisconsin you know the voters have said this over and over the state should be funding schools primarily you should not be putting this additional responsibility to provide the essentials on the families on the community it should be on the state we have enough money.
It should be on business taxes it should be on tighter regulations around you know doing business for big corporations and as we know Jacob right the beautiful big bill or whatever you want to call that monster you know that's been passed is done the opposite right it's created more tax breaks for those large institutions that could be.
Fundaling important money into investing into you know our economies and into our you know public schools yeah it's a just quick addition so what what Johnny's really pointing out here Jacob is is that when the local taxpayer can get rightfully inflamed and angry about the amount of their money going to pay for school taxes.
What we also try to do on the shows point out and say okay but who's not and why has it turned into that you the individual taxpayer property owner has to pay more.
And even this little to Johnny you know we talk about this it's it's the whole idea to have property owning exclusively and you know some people have kind of loaded this into you know so you're just picking on individual homeowners.
And yeah it comes across as homeowners but you know as Johnny points out where those other resources I give one example in Wisconsin specifically when I live there I lived down in the town of Verona and if you know what's down in Verona it's the Google of the Midwest that would be epic and that's where right now if we want to know you know what Johnny's blood type is we would just hack into.
Just hack into epic we could pull up his his my chart or something like that and we'd know everything we need to know about him huge billion dollar corporation it's not that they don't pay anything but they don't pay a proportion of what they are worth and what they're bringing in as.
As the way a property owner so when I owned a house in Verona the rate of taxation that was charged on me based on the value of my property was not even close to what epic should have been paying had the same type of rules applied to them instead they are in a in lieu of taxes they write a check.
Right and this is important to what you're pointing out is a really important sort of tension in the system no system is perfect but in efforts to equalize things a bit because otherwise like if we said hey epic happens to be in the Verona you know district I don't remember exactly what that district is Tim but we say hey.
Yeah so the so there's a lot of money going into Verona schools you know that states have worked algorithms to help equalize things so some of that money goes to the state the state distributes it out you know based on like count days and different you know requirements that the state.
The state asks if it's public schools to follow so there is it used to be just straight you know this is the kind of one might even argue still existing sort of Jim Crow era kinds of things are like you know some lines drawn.
Yeah between classes and also between you know races and communities is that you know depending on where you lived the quality of your school hinged on you know how much of the local tax or business tax was directly.
In your district and that was one way to kind of.
To continue inequality and we're still seeing a lot of that even though states like Wisconsin have done a lot to say hold on hold on the money has to go to the state level and the state disperses it out right so there's a.
Jacob you didn't realize asking this question what you were going to get did you hear because he knew there was a little red herring in there he knew.
You know even in Verona's you know kind of specifically is Johnny points out you know the potential that could exist there is is that if the value of say epics property was tax proportionately to what residents and homeowners are paying.
The amount of windfall for say the Verona school district versus a neighboring school district say like in McFarland could really create a funding.
Just disproportionate inequity that is just something that again we're talking about public schools so that that money going to a central place and then being redistributed.
But even within that and Johnny I'm sure we'll verify this you know there are those inequalities because of you know again the value of homo home ownership in that.
You can see that disproportionate of the taxes and how they get spent at school districts like Verona through all kinds of things and guess what Verona does get a little something extra.
By doing that and you know these are just realities and so you know i'm sure many listeners can point out that you know there are there are ways I guess sadly to take advantage of the economic situation.
We can really continue to fund our public schools in equitably and disproportionately based on you know the class of people and businesses that live in a certain geographical area.
Well, thank you very much to him and Johnny that was supposed to be the 60 second question but it's now been 20 minutes good good answer what I was looking for was property taxes.
But what i'm getting from your answers is that basically Johnny if i'm getting this right and please correct me if i'm not you're saying basically 40% comes from.
Right here in my town are very local funding through through taxes 40% comes from the state and then 12 ish percent like you said federal immediately it stands out and I don't know much about this that's why i'm asking you these questions and I think i'm learning something I help people out there listening or learning something to.
But immediately it stands out that this seems to set up a very unequal situation where it's coming from property taxes in your school district.
That seems like a very obvious glaring issue with with setting it up that way well and that's right Jacob that's where states especially like Wisconsin have like a state level algorithm right in some requirements there right so that it's not used to be direct and now it's not exactly direct right.
So there's you know a combination of general revenue from income tax sales tax and other sources and and there's like a formula I don't have it off top of my head state to state but you know all the states have formula designed to distribute money based on factors like.
School enrollment school needs you know submitting your budget requests and last Tim said district wealth so you are you are rewarded for your local wealth which Jacob you hit the nail on the head it automatically sets up some inequality right if you happen to have some local wealth whether that's like a thriving business.
Like Tim refers to epic or you know I made the reference to Amazon here in Washington right those local schools do see a benefit from from those businesses being there in the vein of what you're saying there Johnny would be fair to say that a big part of what that other 40% from the state is doing and maybe even what the federal funding is doing is trying to fix the problem that your initial version of funding is creating.
To start things yeah yeah in fact i'm glad you went there Jacob because coming back to you know people say it's insignificant that 12% from the federal in fact if you look at why there is a federal presence in states rights public education it largely came from recognizing those disparities and that the federal contribution was supposed to be some form of an antidote to kind of.
Level out those funding inequities and so when people talk about doing away with the Department of Education, which the Supreme Court ruled this week that Donald Trump can continue the dismantling.
People say you know what's the big deal well there's a big deal right there because that is why there was a federal presence in one of the reasons why but you know really looking at and saying uh oh school district over here in this rural community that just lost a lot of economic leverage through closures of industry and mining and things like that they're now eligible for more federal funding.
When you have a department of federal Department of Education so with that problem and it seems like it's acknowledged our states are acknowledging it that there is a problem with the fundamental way we fund our schools nationally it seems that we acknowledge there's a problem we try to fill it in with federal funding why do we keep the system that is so flawed that every level seems to recognize that it doesn't work and needs greater funding from other sources why do we still do it this way.
I mean the short and something about how this is a good thing no I think the short answer I would have is I would ask question do we really care about children you know because they kind of get put to the side in this it's like yeah they're low on the priority not saying they should be I'm not advocating for that I'm just saying like we often sort of sell them short in these instances in in a case where we might really want.
A new business to come to our community and you know our legislators or local governments might say something like hey you'll have some tax breaks and bring your business here or you won't have state tax necessarily as high as you would to bring your business here because we're enticed by the potential local employment I'm also saying that's not that's not a bad thing like we need jobs for people to but there's often a lot of times where kids are sold short.
And I ask that question like if we really cared about children then we would Jacob change the way that we fund our schools we would adequately fund them right at a less complicated model that equalizes things right now would be a public health and public education system that people might there we say say is a little socialist.
So so Jacob I think you know the million dollar question really when you're talking dollars here millions of dollars question is why are we still funding schools this way when we know it's not appropriately funding what's necessary for all kids what I really hate about that Johnny yeah is that the fear of having a socialist system that might work better.
It is driving people not to recognize that we already have our states collecting money and distributing it to try to fix the system we already have a federal government collecting money and distributing it try to fix the system but the only thing they're preventing by preventing us from fixing this and I want to ask you guys what is a practical thing that can be changed to try to fix this system in the short term you have three five 10 years not pie in the sky but they're preventing us from being more efficient and saving money by by having this horrible system that just doesn't seem to work.
Tim why do what's up with that what up with that Tim yeah first of all yeah definitely just a quick add add on to Johnny's it's not even not caring about children it's actually caring about maintaining exactly what is already in place which is the you know the un the inequitable distribution of the classes of people and realizing who benefits from that continued underfunding in equitable situations.
So Jacob you know how do you fix it what would be better I think what Johnny kind of hinted at this but you know one of the first things that would quote make schools better would have nothing potentially to do with schools right away but if we look at something very simple such as what we call Maslow's hierarchy of basic needs such as food health care
shelter if we had a any type of minimal standard that said we are not going to send kids to school with empty stomachs with poor closing and housing and health care is a given for any child in their family that we take care of that the the then ready to come to school to actually take advantage
of what is offered would change dramatically on that yeah and so to me I'm kind of going out to going like you know what one of the things this doesn't fix the broken funding for public education
but this really gets at the the reality of what I think Johnny was saying do we value children well let's value them first from the reality of going do we provide simply the basic needs to be able to continue a life in this country that is truly if you are committed to the pursuit of happiness
you got to be not sick and you got to be not hungry and you got to be not be not wet and cold well yeah and Jacob I'll further simplifies there's kind of two sides of the coin to to responding to how do we fix this right and I'm going to simplify because I know listeners are maybe more than two sides this coin but I'm going to simplify it into two big camps one is like what Tim and I are saying and I think Jacob you're saying is why aren't we just making this like like a universal public education
like a universal public education system everybody's funded it doesn't matter if you're in a poorer neighborhood or community or a wealthier community this is the amount of money that you get and it's adequate to providing what Tim says like a holistic investment in young people right and that would be like you know funding a public education system or what you know we've talked about on here with Jonathan Giricho about publicizing right
but then the other side of the coin Jacob is your free market mindset that saying Jacob we're in the process and it's a messy process but competition is what's going to get us there and you know taking the public away from it and privatizing this not not the old school private school like hey you might go to saint such and such you know usually religious identity around a private school and you pay it to wish and kind of thing but but more or less kind of like applying the free
market business model the idea that like hey we should have a choice of where we go to eat say like whether I go to McDonald's or Burger King or the local you know diner or you know apple bees I have a choice and if they're going to serve a bad product I'm probably not going to go there to eat
So that mindset that idea that like competition levels the playing field and is the great equalizer it might it might work and say you know selling televisions or choosing where you go to eat dinner you know the the wants not the needs
but in education when you apply that that economic philosophy to education you start to say and you create this like you're saying Jacob this kind of a little of both where we're we're still doing like a public education system not quite as well as we should fund it but we're also sprinkling in these competitions
so our public schools are competing again remember they're getting this money through enrollment numbers and through you know being sort of forced to compete in a free market public schools historically and I would argue even today aren't strong when they're competing as businesses
and I know that that's that's the other that's the side of the coin I'm on Jacob the other side of the coin are the free market you know folks who say that's absolutely wrong Johnny competition gets us there you know you have to provide a competitive option you know and then we start talking about well how are my kids going to get to that competitive option we're just not design we don't have the infrastructure to be equalizing and free market and education
so if I'm to you mediate that I'm going to say okay I'm not against free market in general like McDonald's and Burger King can hash it out with the public where you go to get the best fries and burgers and you know and if they do a bad job or I don't know people get sick go and then they won't go there that's not how it works in public schools and we're seeing that so when enrollment declines and then funding declines is sort of like an avalanche and we're not talking about wants like like burgers and burgers
fries we're talking about emphasizing that they absolutely essentials right like young people building a foundation for how they're going to participate in our state in our community in our economy those things so it's like why I'm saying public health and public education
it shouldn't be marketized and that brings us to like our regular guest Jonathan Garico talks about publicizing right he makes it a verb we need to publicize our public school system you know remove that that impetus of like providing a product and competing for businesses into a model of we're for the public good we're an absolute essential we're an absolute need that's the side of the coin I'm on and there's good I mean there's good arguments from the other side of the coin right there I kind of laid out
that philosophy so may have listeners out there who are saying like hey you know it's these charter options that are going to get us to a better education well Tim and I would disagree yeah but there are charters that are truly more public than even our public schools and it's the interesting kind of moment we're in is that's when we start to say Jacob like you pointed out the obvious hey if we look at this from the 10,000 foot view why aren't we just operating public schools as sort of you know
a government funded you know great equalizer that it was designed to be an investment and the strength of our country if I may be so bold as the host to offer my own view I'm not sure if this is is is a loud in media but I'm going to give it a shot
I think free market stuff has a lot of value to it I think that capitalism makes a lot of wealth and it's because of that that we can try to distribute some of that wealth
if we didn't have this wonderful free market we wouldn't have the money to try to give to people who need money that's my personal view but when it comes to this situation
think about McDonald's and Burger King competing and that has some some benefit to it when you know bring prices down or have the best products
but in when you bring that allegory into education the CEO of McDonald's isn't a shareholder who gets to help make decisions for Burger King
but if I'm running a charter school or if I'm promoting this vision of a of a paid education system I'm also voting to continue making public schools worse to help my thing that I'm working on here
which does not seem like a fair competitive marketplace to me so I think it's kind of hard to to shoehorn that in as your version of what you want education to be
yeah so if you're if you're in the camp of deregulation helps become an equalizer you know great just stay away from education
yeah there you go yeah you know like we'll give you that space to live out that experiment you know and Tim and I may may poke a little bit more critically against capitalism as an economic model
but but in the end I'm with you like hey let it do it let's let it do its thing instead of like you pointed out Jacob that conflicting interests
like that oppose and that's where we're really hard on legislation and legislators like hey you know support and protect our public schools
remember this is the better off of our democracy this is the investment we have on our strength of our states the strength of our communities the strength of our nation ultimately
so you know regulation in that world isn't necessarily a bad thing where in free market capitalism right in the McDonald's Burger King war
you know or maybe it's the way back to him when we were young it was Pepsi and Coke you know and you know what was it Budweiser versus what was the other one
it was Miller line but the beer wars so so those like Jacob said those CEOs are advocating in the interests of the profit for their companies
that should be if that's going to be a thing cool let it be its thing right but don't necessarily apply it to all areas
and I know like people in the healthcare world are also having this out yeah because we're seeing it with public and private hospitals
right in healthcare system in this country with insurance and all these things it is not equal
it's not equal and they just say you know here we are man the producer's choice segments are getting nice happy shoulders
happy sub no it's it's good because we get into some great conversations but you know I think the competition and all that
and we've got to come back to this concept of quote we say our our needs right and even the competition model in an economic theory of you know
capitalism in this country there's also a reason why there are regulations on competition even there
now we're trying to break them down but it comes from this concept of saying that everybody who comes to the free market
should have some type of an equitable footing to be able to compete right you can't compete
and here though too and I say we got to separate this out education the need it's a need here so even if you believe in
competition how do we create a level field to compete on and I don't anyone go there well we're not doing that
we're not even creating a playing field an equipment you know a roster materials none of that is allowing certain groups of people
to come to God forbid a competition and be able to compete equally in this and so when we're talking about schooling if you want to compete
after you graduate to be in the marketplace of capitalism and ideas let's at least say that education is a need
and so we're going to fund that need so that yeah later on I guess go out and compete but you know that
would really require us to as Johnny said we got to get away from the competition market capitalism model
as a philosophy to drive education because it to me it's very damaging corrupting and it just creates
inequalities and it breeds it and so when it comes yeah funding boy Jacob deep question powerful
if I could say education is a need I think that's a great place to leave us off on our main discussion I ask you guys I believe two questions
and it has been an hour and a half but you guys have a lot to say and that's good I think that proves the quality of the questions
I have one last question for you guys though it's something we like to do here on the producer's choice show I believe you guys have been on the program before
so this is nothing you haven't heard but I'm going to ask you a very special question actually let's go this is our 60 second question
Dr. Tim Selecker in 60 seconds it doesn't have to be the most important thing
but what is one thing close to your heart that you would like to see more funding for in education
I would like to see funding for healthy nutritious meals provided for every child for both breakfast and lunch right there
boom my drop that's a great answer Tim Johnny again it doesn't have to be the most important thing everything's important
but what's something that you really care about that you'd like to see funding for an education
I was going to say the same thing is Tim but since he's already getting that which granted by Jacob you the genie here today
we'll go with that it would be you know food for everybody right the next most important thing is I would say access to pediatric health care
so they like all the kids have access to you know a local pediatrician through their schools so that they're you know basic health
and their wellness is counted for in those early formative years
fantastic answers guys thank you so much for being here I got a scram but I believe Tim it's time for something special
yeah you know it is time for the moment of Zen
we all know individuals most of them unsung unrecognized who have often in the most modest ways spoken out or acted on their beliefs
for a more egalitarian more just peace loving society
thanks for listening to today's producers choice and if you want to grab more busted pencils podcasts just head on over to Apple Spotify
or wherever it is get your podcasts and you can always find us on civic media dot com or on our website busted pencils dot com
and remember you can find great busted pencils content every Monday for home room Wednesdays for class and session and on Fridays for producers Jacob's choice
and of course pencil busters you can always tune in on Saturday and listen to the busted pencils weekend broadcast at 3 p.m. Central time across all the civic media networks for that one hour of your favorite blue collar scholars Tim and Johnny keep busted pencils
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