Oh
Friday
Busted pencils
Actually Fridays way more than just busted pencils
You know what that means it is producers Jacob's choice Friday
Johnny easily becoming probably one of the most popular Friday podcasts drops across
Spotify Apple iHeart you name it
Jacob's choice man blowing up the podcast Fridays
Gain and momentum and not slowing down. That's our guy Jacob for Jacob's choice
Jacob what do you you know so Jacob? I just before you start
Yeah, can you can you what do you think of my my mug shot there?
I love your mug shots and you look great now for people at home who might be listening audio only
Can you explain this cool bit you're doing that you've been really excited for?
Well, um, yeah, if you know go to the YouTube and check it out because
As John and Gordy in the morning on the Madison channel pointed out that if I position my
Just right
It appears as if I have pencils busting out of my head and as Jacob also added to that
that I'm also potentially
sporting a bit of a
Afro on top of my bald head
Looking good there, so yeah
It's well well placed background Tim
Looks good with your with your ear muffs on and the pencils blasted out of the sides of your ears
So anyway, yeah, it's never mind. It wasn't that good Jacob. It's all about you today though my friend
And I apologize Tim. I kind of set you up for that. I told you it was a really great idea and then
Johnny didn't respond well and I bailed and that's on me that's I was a bad friend on that one but uh
Also, it was the won't won a little bit and I appreciate that faint praise you had where you're like this is
Quickly becoming the best busted pencils show on Fridays
Which as far as I know there's just the one
But yeah, I agree. I'm in the top few shows we do on friday
Actually, Jacob come on. I was saying the best friday podcast not just busted pencils
But the best friday podcast we're blowing up Tim thanks to this exciting new segment
Which has its own intro
Anything goes it's gonna be producer's choice
You and I will have two choices
Chairman of the board Jacob oh
Jake chairman of the board
I've got the board is spelled B-O-R-E-D
We choose to go to the moon
Life's tough choices in
You chose
one
Good afternoon evening morning whenever you're listening to this pest uh busted pencils
Out there. I'm your host producer Jacob and this is the producer's choice show the number one show within a show
Across the entire civic media radio and podcast network
Tonight I'm honored to have with me two very special guests
Representing Detroit rock city my first guest is best known for his high profile role as the co-host of the award-winning
Busted pencils podcast
Dr. Johnny Lupinachi. Thank you for being here Johnny
Hey, I wouldn't miss for the world man. It's an honor to have you and my next guest hailing from parts unknown
He needs no introduction
Thank you then I'll just leave it at that no introduction that's right here with you
I thought you're gonna say you know and and introducing homelander
Tim they weren't listening to our before the show banter
Going right over the audience's heads
The bits are flying today with Superman coming out. We're all buzzing for this you know these superhero experiences
Another type of entertainment though is something we're gonna talk about here today
We're bringing it's not quite the Hollywood show, but I think there's some cinematic overtones that people are really gonna appreciate with this podcast
Guys today as always
Uh, well, not sorry. This is not addressed to you. I just realized. I'm talking to the audience
I like to build that personal connection. Anyway, today is always our guest will be fielding in array of questions
But this time these will not just be any questions. No, no, no Tim and Johnny
These questions will help settle for good and all who is superior
mankind or the machines
I'm sorry Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that
Oh
Shall we play a game
Did you like that? Oh, the war games drop at the end is is priceless
Everybody loves war games Matthew Broderick. What's not to like? Uh, Tim and Johnny
This is a very special episode as I said because we're figuring out who's the best interviewer
mankind or the machines
I'm taking this personally as a challenge to my abilities
I know which side you're on Tim
Got my eye on you buddy. Okay. Yeah. I have before me a set of three human-generated questions about technology
Going up against three AI-generated questions about human interest matters
Who asked the better questions we shall see one quick warning guys before we begin because there's so many questions six total questions
Try not to take more than like two or three minutes on these answers because we don't want to be here all day
I've got you're talking to Johnny you're on that one, right? No, Tim. You're very verbose and
Of course I want to hear, you know, really good answers from the both of you, but you know for the audiences sake
We got to respect their time. Yes
who wants to go first
Oh, oh, oh, Tim good news. You get to go first. We're gonna start out with a human-generated question for you Tim
Okay
Hey, Tim and Johnny. This is Jacob from racing big fan of the show
I've always wanted to have a chance to ask you guys a question my question today is what is one way that you can envision technology
Changing classrooms for the better in the next five years. Thanks for taking my call guys. I hope you answer my question
Wow Jacob from recene. Thanks for calling in with that question. I actually really appreciate that
You know, I will say right now the what I see being incredibly positive and referring, you know to one of the guests
That we've had actually quite a few guests, but um, yes artificial intelligence and its ability to personalize
Education content and curriculum therefore meeting
kids where they are as opposed to us
Imposing a time and a curriculum and telling them when they have to learn what we tell them to learn
Instead
AI says hey, we're going to meet you where you are
great teachers are going to implement and use that technology to just allow students to grow miraculously
That's a very strong answer Tim. I like that and of course I'm impartial
But it's going to be hard to top that with the personalization of education that AI implements
Of course, I'm on team human here
Johnny
What do you think about that Johnny? What is one way that AI and technology are going to improve education in the next five years
Well, I appreciate that human-generated question Jacob in a chance to follow up
I'm aligned with Tim on this and I'll elaborate a little bit on it in a short response is I think it's going to
You know help take out a lot of the busy work which already was a problem in classrooms like without the technological advances
But I think you know, AI is going to help push it a little bit more take out the busy work
Because it's stuff we could just ask a prompt to do and focus more on the relationship stuff give teachers
I'm going to flip a little bit on the other side of it
I think it's going to change teacher labor
In a way where teachers feel more free to be engaging to be fun to have some time to be creative
With young people
Because it's not just going to be about like I said that busy work
That simply can be answered utilizing some AI technologies in the classroom
So I think it's going to help speed up some of those annoying daunting tasks that take up teachers energy and time
And it's going to be a tool that I think strengthens everyone if used
properly and in cooperation right every tool
Can also be a weapon and I think this is one that we're going to as educators spend some good time learning how to use as a learning tool
And implement in our classroom to help you know complement great teaching
You know not destroy it and replace it
There's so many exciting things coming with AI and technology in this world
But I think we can all agree at least I can that the one thing it can't do is ask good questions
And you're about to witness a great example of that right here on this program with our first AI generated robo question
Hello Tim and Johnny long time listener first time caller
How does posting this show change your perspective on public education
If you couldn't understand what that robot said because I could barely even follow those guys
He said how has hosting this show changed your perspective on education. This is around Robin
Question and answer segment. So Johnny you can lead us off with your answer to that question. All right
I'll say you know what it did for me is real it really solidified the need to have conversations
That move outside of the you know proverbial walls of
Educational scholars right or educational leaders or experts in education
I think you know education is something that we should all be talking about
Even if we don't have kids per se in the local schools
You know schools are part of our communities and so you know
It's just driven home hosting the show to have so many great listeners out there who call in who've correspond
You know who have conversations about the topics that we have
So it being a catalyst and a spark for dialogue about public education as part of our you know conversational politics
It's about everyone and it's about our communities
And I think before the show, you know, I kind of thought about that and believed that but didn't get to participate it in that level
And since host in the show, it's really you know become the focus. How do we talk about the things that we want to see different in our schools
And in our communities and then move together towards making those things a reality making those things happen
I love that sense of community Johnny and you've really touched
Touched me here with that answer and of course robot interview
Robot interview you were he has no heart and he doesn't care about the answer
So that's something you don't get with with a robot interviewer. So I just think that's worth noting Tim
What's something that
Something about hosting this show that has changed your perspective on public education
Huh, you know what my perspective change and I don't know if this is necessarily public education, but hosting the show
I in fact, you know creating this show kind of came from the standpoint of
Being very much about putting out, you know a a a singular kind of absolute pro
defense of public education
Um, and I still believe that that's what we do, but what has changed me and I think this is for the better and I think it will be good in public education
is is that
seeking out
Guests viewpoints that we can bring here kind of complementing what Johnny said so that we can dialogue
Democracy which isn't about taking over and fully blasting your opinion until you are the one last you know the one left standing
But entering into a you know a deep discussion and actually the only way you can really do that is by exploring topic
That um, you know might potentially be something that at face value you disagree with and I now intentionally
Look for those viewpoints and
More than trying to figure out how to beat them. I try to figure out how to understand them
Those are really great answers from the both of you and it's you know
It's even more impressive because you did all the heavy lifting that was a horrible robot question
It really did nothing for you gave you nothing and you guys somehow pulled it out there
So I really admired that now here is something I bet this one's gonna be really easy because it's a human-generated question for you guys
Let's take a listen
Fancy educated fillers think that artificial intelligence can help the bridge of the growing rural urban divide in our country
In Tim because we're doing it round robbing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it comes to me again
Well, that's the other Jacob in Racine. I would assume
Apparently he he and I have lived slightly different lives
I was gonna say
Wow, well, no again, again. Thank you, Jacob
From Racine in Racine
um or southern Texas wherever it sounded like you you might have been um
AI bridging that divide
um
Boy
Never thought about it from that standpoint, you know
Johnny jump in I see you're ready man. Well, you know what I think it's gonna do
And one of the things I find hopeful is that we have this sort of human cultural assumption that separated rural from urban
And certainly there are some differences like the scenery
Right some of the character defining characteristics
But the experiences and in the ways that it's you know systematically excluded from good funding
You know from you know
Support for its public education programs. There are some striking similarities and experience
That our urban communities and that are urban schools especially and our rural schools
both, you know
Have endured over the years and so I think one of the hopeful things I would have is as you know people turn to AI
You know and ask the chat GPT or whatever your you know your weapon of choices in the AI world
You know you ask, you know, what is the what are the similarities and differences between rural and urban schools
And it's going to show some of those
similarities that we may at you know a gut level
Separate and think well they have their worlds apart because in some ways they kind of are and how we experience them
But what they both undergo
is neglect
Right and I will just say it abuse from our
legislation
Around how we're supporting young people in those communities
Right, so the rate of you know
incarceration in those communities so the ways that our schools
Funnel kids through oftentimes not onto successful
Lives but into the you know the prison system
All kinds of different ways that you know food deserts exist in our rural communities and our urban communities
You know just the underfunded schools
We always think about this if we want to romanticize schools. It's all based on you know some somewhat of a declining suburban wealth
Which I'll even say like so for all of our schools that are labeled or that understand themselves as successful
You can learn from rural and urban districts that are decades into saying hey, what about us? Wait
This isn't this isn't working out
Well for our kids in their school leaders in school
Educators have been doing you know an amazing job of figuring out how to navigate that changing landscape for public schools
That's spreading so I think you know Jacob in short what it does is it it highlights those similarities
We might miss it's like putting on a special set of goggles. It says hey give me some similarities and differences about
Urban and rural schools and we start to see hey and and you know what it might do
It may unify
To really powerful groups of voters
Together to say wait a minute
So these legislators we've elected aren't advocating for what our schools communities and local economies need in
Similar ways and so how do we strengthen that so whether you're in an urban district or a rural district
You know check out find your similarities and that loops back around like what Tim and I were just saying about the joy of being on busted pencils is
It's a dialogue across
Some of those culturally constructed boundaries and identities we have whether it's democrat and republican or whether it's urban and rural
However, we want to construct those liberal conservative. It's taking those identities valuing what we
Value about them and coming together in a democratic way to have that kind of conversation
So it maybe maybe Jacob is a tool that helps unify a really strong base that we know
Hmm that we know voted in favor of
Public schools our urban districts and our rural districts spoke loudly although the
presidential election vote
Went differently because I'll say pretty matter of fact, you know Trump administration is not a strong advocate for our public education system
thriving right so interestingly enough though
voters who voted for Trump also voted in support of their local
Public schools and their more local elections
So this is an interesting moment that hopefully maybe AI which searches for facts
Hopefully right yeah, it's across our fingers that we trust the robot Jacob and Johnny here
We're not we're a more skeptical of that than Tim that's something that I want to ask you about Tim because you
Your your team machine, you know when when judgment day comes you're gonna be grabbing the laser beam and helping out the AI
Can you get in getting on that excited
Positive version of what AI can do the ability to unite. I mean are you seeing what Johnny seeing there?
Oh, yeah, yeah, and in just in case machines
I actually always speak very nicely to them too so that yes when they when they do take over they know I'm a friend
Um just in case anybody's out there worrying about it. I'm not I see the united. Yeah, here's again
Here's the technology. It's it's kind of like one of these. It's a leveling technology. Yeah
In other words, you know if we
deploy
Educate and demonstrate how this technology
can be used in ways, you know
Sadly where we see a lot of people is just in some kind of
Copycat machine or something like that and realizing
How do we make sense of the world? How do we put unique data sets together and ask artificial intelligence to draw
Common commonalities and even say let's draw some comparisons between rural and urban
What's happening and the ability to use that told to quickly come up and find those similarities that Johnny was just talking about
I just see it right there and uh
Yeah, and and don't forget about two those who support homelander and those who support Superman too
We're trying to bring those people together. Yeah, I don't know if that divide you can ever bridge
But very good answers from the both of you and I think part of why those were such good thoughtful answers is because
You know, they originated from a human-made handcrafted question that they really understands
You know the host and what they like to talk about and uh, I think that's something you just can't get from a machine
I haven't heard a good question from the machines yet
Unbiased source. I'm just saying that's you know, I call them like I see them. Here's another robot question
I mean if you guys still want to hear it
I don't even know if we should play them because they're not as good as my you know what?
We have them. We have them. So I got them right. We'll see what the robot says
Hi, Tim and Johnny. I'm Sophia the artificial long-time listener first time caller
I've always wanted to know what's one story from a guest that's stuck with you over the years
Also, I think producer Jacob is really cute. Thanks for taking my call
Oh, I mean maybe the robots aren't all that bad. Uh, some of them seem okay
I was gonna say there Jacob. Come on. Okay, this goes to Johnny though, man. It's him first
Well, man so many I think that probably the one that stands out um
As personal favorite uh, I love when we have Martin Atkinson
Uh, I love his stories. I love him talking about you know
You know drumming back in the day and the beginnings of you know sort of the early dawn of punk and then post punk eras and
And his vision for uh, you know kind of like a punk rock education
When when we have Martin on his the stories he tells are some of my favorite and related I guess to this man versus machine
I like his explanation of what does he see
AI bringing not only to the craft of making music and the creative creativity but to education
Right, and so it's Martin Atkins story about you know the drum machine
And the calls he got like hey, are you gonna be looking for a new job as a studio drummer and a you know
Are you drummer is gonna be out of business and him saying well no
Because I'm a really good drummer and on top of that I'm creative
And I like working with other musicians and then he reminded us that the cool thing about creative
Creatives is that given the tools. They're always mixing and making new things
And so something amazing is gonna emerge from generations of creatives who see
Kind of harnessing the you know the power of the machines to come together with their human
Human creativity to to put something we've never even heard out there
Right, and so he was talking about that. So mine is Martin Atkins
Right
guest here on busted pencils
Extraordinaire we've heard here on the show before talking about meeting students where they are
And sometimes when you're hosting your own show
The guest has to meet you where you are and we that's one that hit Johnny right where he's interest
Most keenly lie
Tim how about you? What's a guest or a story from a guest that really stuck with you
You know this is one where I'm sitting here and going okay
Who's gonna be offended when I don't
Say say them. I mean because you know
You know dianne ravage is
Awesome right
Educators amplify teacher Joanna teacher. Halley
Amazing, you know the the fact that they could always bring the reality of what's actually happening in schools
But you know what here's a deal. I
I you know gonna put it out there
Matt Damon's mom
Dr. Nancy Carlson page
is always
One of my favorite guests when she comes on this show because
You know you want to talk about keeping it real. I mean she comes on this show and just points out so many things connected to
You know how we're doing education
Why we're supposed to be doing it and
I always like to look at that and go so there is a reason
Matt Damon so awesome. It's not because Matt so awesome. It's because Nancy
Dr. Carlson page Matt Damon's mom. She's the one who's incredibly awesome
So and it makes more sense when you have such an awesome smart mom why he was able to walk up to that
That chalkboard and solve that question
In goodwill hunting. So now that all kind of ties it together
Yeah, and how he could grow potatoes on Mars
He's an incredible boy and I think his mom should be very proud of of Matt Damon
Speaking of a Martian and sort of a futuristic sci-fi take these next two questions. I found in the future
All right, so nice
Don't ask me to explain the logistics of that. I use chatchy PT
Here we go. Here is the human question
From the future
Humanity at large from your perspective. Obviously for me
It is that I now live inside of a toaster and pop out once a day. It'd be buttered
But I'm curious. What does it look like for you guys back in 2025? I have to go
Inspection time is coming up. Thanks for taking my call guys. Love the show
That's sort of a meandering question from
Jacob in the future, but the essence of it is what is a threat that you see AI posing Dr. Tim Slecker?
Well, I appreciate that
Jacob the the toast in the toaster gets to still have real butter
So AI thanks for preserving real butter
Actually, I a threat and I really do see this and you know, we've we've done shows on does a chatchy PT or AI cause
Brain damage, and you know, we've debunked that and all that but um there is a real issue here about potentially offloading
um
The real critical thinking type of work that a deep education is supposed to be about and you know losing sight of
Sometimes when we're supposed to do the hard work and not use you know a machine
To kind of offload really that deep meaningful work
You know, I worry about that because
It's very easy to go you know as as you say, you know, I use it a lot and there's a lot of times where I'm sitting there going
Huh
Am I relying on it too much? I know your thoughts Jacob, but I don't know if Jacob from the future has any you know thoughts about
The effects on my cognitive abilities, but um
That's my concern is is that we actually will just kind of give into the temptation to let AI do the hard work
As opposed to making sure and empowering humans and students and uh, you know regular
Skin and bones and muscles and nerves and veins people
They should be doing the hard work earlier Johnny you were saying that you were thinking that one of the great things about AI is that it takes away
Some of those things we don't want to do so that we have time to do the things that we do want to do or the things we think make a big impact
I think Tim makes a great point though that sometimes
Those hard things that we'd rather not do end up being the most important things in our lives
You know some of the things that really make us who we are so that is definitely a potential threat for the future Johnny
What do you think and what's a threat that AI might pose?
So I have a couple and the first one is that we we get so like Tim said so connected to
This technological tool that you know it gets woven into our everyday use in a way where we lose
Sort of the ability or the familiarity with the tasks that we will ultimately have to do if the earth can't support
You know AI any longer and so I worry about like how these advanced computers get cooled
Do we have enough, you know temperature climate kind of
Ability to you know keep computers running things especially as the amount of energy to use that that
Girls, but that's one I have but I believe that probably
You know the scientific community can solve that one
But one that I worry about probably right now the most as we move forward is you know the sophisticated ways that disinformation campaign
Can be woven into an algorithm pretty pretty easily given the technology to where you know
It distorts realities right and it controls perceptions that people have
And what what I worry about that doing right you know is that it sort of happens
Behind the scenes so really is experienced by the user as not happening and then all of a sudden, you know
You we've all been
Maybe not everyone but you should try this, you know, you go through series of YouTube videos
And you can find yourself in a bit of a rabbit hole
On a particular topic like maybe why the earth is flat to where it starts to feel like there's enough evidence that the false equivalency
Has enough mass to become a belief or a reality
And and I worry about that ultimately
You know as you know a slow weakening of trust
So you know my hope is that you know
AI generated content doesn't lead to a breakdown of trust and that we have in one another in our media our institutions
You know and our own perceptions like Tim said doing the hard work of you know of of what is real
And creating you know and thus the creating that disinformation campaigns that lead to societal divisions and instability
So that's my biggest worry is that it becomes such a part of our everyday life that you to shift and change perceptions
You know and that we lose trust
We can you know we can's our ability to trust
Tim you were hitting on the personal the way AI can
Can potentially pose challenges for each one of us in our lives
Johnny hitting on those big global problems that AI might pose
I think both are incredibly valid and important questions to ask and things to to ponder upon
But
My AI producer is in my ear right now and he says we're running up on time. Oh my god
So we only have one robot question left
And I think we're going to combine it with our 60 seconds segment. I'm going to give you both 60 seconds to answer this robot question
Are you ready?
We're ready. Let's go
Hello, I am Jacob. I'm your artificial podcast producer. I am superior to your old podcast producer in every way
Not true. For example, I ask incredible AI generated questions
Here's one now
Tim and Johnny how do you stay motivated to keep advocating for educators and students week after week
I'm going to throw this one to Timothy Dr. Timothy's 60 seconds. It's your that stupid robots question
Well, you know, but and this will come back to the to the the human connection because
You know public education
We always say it's the foundation of democracy
But I say that that human connection to exploring learning connecting teaching giving back and forth
You know that is fundamental to what it means to really be
A human is the ability to be in a dialogue about what it is we're learning and so every day
I continue to say it's worth the fight because um
You know what if we lose that
Man, we're in trouble. So easy easy question there jaco bot
Johnny same question 60 seconds. How do you keep motivated to keep yourself in this fight?
Well jaco bomb a dreamer and when you're not dreaming in my world then you're not living and so, you know, keep in the dream alive
You know, it's an investment on the future every time we're talking about education every time we're talking about that
Experience that we have and what we learn
You know, and then we talk about what could be better for the future?
Right, it's keeping the dream alive that you know democracy is real. It's valued human rights environmental rights
All of things that make us a strong community
Can be even stronger and we have human capacity for that if we learn to value it and how to do it
So every time we talk about you know, improvements in education or cool things we could do differently
It's keeping the dream going right that that that shared belief that every kid
deserves an awesome education experience and that that and that working for that is an investment on our futures on our children's
Grange children
Their lives and their community and the democracy they live in so I'm big on dreaming
So it's keeping that dream alive. That's what keeps me going every time we talk about education is living the dream keeping it going
I'll tell you guys
This is my dream right here
Doing this show with you guys it's boom means a lot to me doctor
Dr. Tim Slecker Dr. Johnny Lupinachi. Thank you so much for being a guest on your own show again
Means a lot to me. I have you here answering my questions means less to me the AI questions, which of course were
Greatly inferior to the ones I had I have one more question before we wrap things up
Tim Johnny
Whose questions did you prefer mine or the robots show that now?
Oh my god producer Jacob human
We love you man
Yeah, I'm gonna tell me producer Jacob human. Thank you. I'm gonna go with man over the machine today John Henry you won
Yes, and with that guys, I think there's time for something
Yeah, now it's time for your moment of sin
To be hopeful and bad times is not just foolishly romantic
It is based on the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty
But also of compassion sacrifice courage and kindness
Thanks pencil busters for listening to today's podcast edition of producer Jacob's choice
And if you want to grab more busted pencils podcasts
We'll just head on over to apple spotify or you can always get at us at civicmedia.com
Or on our website at busted pencils.com and you can always find great busted pencils content like today show on
Or like today show, but you can find it on Mondays for home room Wednesdays for class in session
And next Friday of course for Jacob's choice
And of course pencil busters you can always tune in on Saturdays and listen to the busted pencils weekend broadcast
At three p.m. Central time across all the civic media networks for one hour of your favorite
Blue collar scholars Tim and Johnny and key busting pencils