That's Friday, Busted Pencils, fully-ledged education talk.
It's educated, it's just talking about education, hurdles, home runs Friday.
It's essential curriculars, as we like to call them here, it's Busted Pencils.
Getting ready for the show, though, Jacob, you kind of stopped us and said, I got a curveball.
I'm like, well, then hurdles and home runs, I'm gonna see if you can throw that curveball
and see if I can't hit it out of the park, though, man.
So load up, get on that mound and do what you do to get that pitch and deliver it, my friend.
Here's my pitch, Tim.
So on Wednesday, you were talking about AI, it's gonna get rid of schools, you want to
get, you want to fire all professors, turn universities into data farms, I understand
all that and I'm with you, Tim.
But I worry about our essential curriculars, are we gonna have AI club from now on?
I mean, what's gonna happen, especially because even right now, AI is brand new, but even
right now, people are so online, they're talking about, oh, we need third spaces other than
home and work, we need to get out more, see more human beings, how are we gonna balance
that stuff, guys?
Oh, I see it, I'm watching that come in, I can see it, I got my eye on it, I know what's
about to break, and I got it.
You know what, though, Jacob, great question, great curveball, hey, you know what, great hurdles
in home runs because you're talking about the essential curriculars, I'm gonna put this
out there very quickly, I believe that AI implementing it into the classroom the way
we're talking about actually creates way more space to allow for way more essentials
than we normally do right now, because if we can use AI to actually take away some of
the god, awful, busy work, some of the horrendous lectures that we make kids sit through, some
of the things where we've got kids who are ready to move, some of them who need a little
extra support, if we can individualize instruction with AI and move forward in a way that says,
guess what, actually, we're gonna use AI so that we can get these academics really loaded
in going, because man, we've been wasting your time over 100 years making you sit six
and seven hours in rows listening to teachers drawn on about things, it's now the opportunity
to engage with this artificial intelligence.
Let's make, I hate this word, I know people are gonna hit hard on this when I say it, but
let's make the classroom way more efficient when it comes to academics and then have way
more time to inefficiently explore the essentials and if one of those happens to be AI club, sure,
but I tell you what, going back to Wednesday, I think this gives us a lot more time to take,
you know, for me, group of kids out in the woods, talk about survival techniques, talk about
engaging learning and yeah, you know what, to build a fire, I would love to spend more time
working with students, not just kids, anybody on those types of activities, I see AI is giving
us more time. That's my take on that curve volume through Jacob. And now I see that ball coming
right back at me, hits me in the face, I'm down, I will see you guys next time. I love that,
but that's real Tim, you know, we joke a lot about AI take over and stuff like that, but I
and I tend to be kind of the skeptic of how much AI is enough AI and but I like this thinking
about how it's transforming the work that's happening for especially teachers, a lot of teachers
are coaches and moderators of these essential curriculars and it gives us a little more time,
a little more energy, a little less busy work for the teachers and the students. Let's get to those
essential learning moments. So we also have time in our day to get outside to do things that we
enjoy that are part of that well-rounded holistic education that includes what we call here on
busted pencils, those essential curricular activities, not just the extra curriculars as, you know,
people out there in the cities, those civilians out there, those non-education folks call sports
clubs, all those different things. Hey, Tim, though, if I got, can I get a moment here while we're
in hurdles and home runs and talking about those essential curriculars, you know, we have Jimmy K on
from time to time and we're gonna get him back on here because he's mentioned that there is, you know,
democracy and action in these essential curriculars that in Wisconsin, especially listeners out
there, pencil busters in Wisconsin, you know, this is true in all the states, but especially in
Wisconsin, that there is, you know, a governing board, the Wisconsin Inter-scholastic Athletic
Association board, WIAA, makes this important decisions and they take recommendations from a
committee of coach advisors. So there's a coach's advisory committee that makes recommendations
and say, hey, great seasons this year, looking ahead to next year, what are some things we could
do and there's a big meeting. And Jimmy K, he can speak to this more eloquently than I can. So we'll
get him on, but there's some updates because that meeting happened, right? There was a major meeting
and they approved some important things that we've talked about here on this segment, major
reporting from that, some some big things, right? Changes for football,
fall essential curricular, right? They approved a new football qualifying and seeding system.
So there's a new seeding system for 11 and eight player football teams are going to be divided
divided into seven divisions based on enrollment in a new performance factor and a new ranking
systems will award points for wins based on opponents divisions tier one and additional points
for each victory by defeated opponents in tier two. So a little bit of a more hopefully more,
we're always trying to figure out how to make things more fair, more balanced and increased parity
in things, right? Closer competition. So a new seeding system for 11 player and eight player
football. We talked a lot about eight player football. Yeah, we did. You know, first downs on Friday
nights last last fall and we'll be in it again, not too soon or not too far off. But Tim,
we talked about eight player. Remember we talked about eight player football. Yeah, well,
guess what? Eight player football is growing. There's a tournament expansion. The eight player football
tournament in Wisconsin is expanding to 32 teams in 2025. So it's growing and the season will start
earlier to accommodate an additional playoff round. So a little bit of more growth coming from
eight player football, which we've said it really kind of helps those rural schools, the schools
with lower student enrollment. You need a lot of players to have a competitive football team
and schools that couldn't field as many players were really suffering and that will not eight
player football really changes that, you know, gives that opportunity to more schools to be competitive.
Can I ask a question, Johnny? Yeah, absolutely, Jacob. What in the Sam Houston is eight player football?
Oh, man. I'm not pop quiz for Tim. And you give Jacob a, and I'll fill in because I put
down some more of a rassling guy. But you know, it was about eight player. Tim, give him the run
down. Jacob, I said the same thing last year when it was first introduced to me. I did not know.
It is, well, exactly what it said, you know, eight men or women on the field on either side,
not the 11 that is, you know, what we're used to as we might say traditional football. And it has
been in Wisconsin operating. I didn't realize this for actually, you know, a significant amount of time.
And the biggest way to say this is that this is actually a really great development for schools that
have really lower enrollments. And so making those rosters that can be, you know, when you take
a big suburban school, say like in Wisconsin outside Verona, right? You know, the number of kids
that go for the football team that actually, you know, even get just, you know, 100. And so
getting 11 players out on the field, not a hard thing. You go into some rural areas in Wisconsin.
And you actually may only have 11 or 12 total students that are showing up to be on the football
team. And this is just one of those ways that say, you know what, if we're going to have places
like this, why don't we figure out a way to make this, you know, more competitive, more, I even say,
you know, fair on the players because those players get a chance to sit down and break because
I know this anytime we played small teams back in the 80s, those kids played both ways, both
sides all the time and were exhausted. And so from just that standpoint, it's just an interesting,
you know, I was like, whoa, this is really crazy. I mean, would this hurt students if they're,
you know, being recruited by division one schools and actually talking to Chad and Jimmy Kay,
the, the answers know that this really works out well. Johnny, what do you think? Did I do okay?
I mean, it's, you know, essentially listener and Jacob, it's a modified version of 11 player football.
So three less players on the field and both sides of the ball. A lot of, a lot of states
have modified the field size. So it's, it's a little more narrow. Some of them play like a 40 yard
wide field, right? You got less people out there. So you have some rules on offense. Five players
have to stay on the line of scrimmage, right on defense. Usually you're removing defensive tackles
from traditional formations. You know, it's their high scoring. You often see teams going for it
on fourth down. So a lot less special teams, right? A lot more, you know, two point conversions
instead of field goals and it tend to be high scoring games when played. And to my thought that it
was a way, I mean, it's a different beast. The teams that I've gone and watched and, and I knew
the rural schools where some of my, you know, former, you know, I teach teachers and I especially
teach coaches being a coach and teacher myself. And a lot of my graduates go, you know, coach
high school sports. And a lot of them get recruited to go coach football in our rural districts.
And, you know, I've gone to their practices. You have to be in amazing shape to play eight player
football. It is a lot of moving. It is a fast pace game. And it is, you know, I would say like
cross country amounts of running. It is a lot of running player versatility. You know, you
really have to feel eight players out there. They have to be very multi skilled and they're
responsible for several positions, you know, their speed, agility and strength. So it's a slightly
different game, but it's a modified version, right, of 11 player football. And generally, and I say
this with caveat because it's growing. Generally, it's for high schools with smaller enrollments.
Right. Like Tim said, it's a way to have like a really competitive experience in the sport to still
be, you know, learning skills and practicing those skills and developing as a player.
And like Jimmy Kay and Chad have said and Tim mentioned, you know, it is not less than 11 player
football. It is, it has become like full on. Let's go a high showcase of skill and football IQ. So
we deviated a little bit, but that's good stuff, man. I just have one more question about it,
I mean, could these high school eight player football guys, I mean, can they send NIL contracts
in Wisconsin or I mean, what's the law on that? What's the rule? That we're going to have to ask Jimmy
Kay about because I do not have an update on where we landed with the NIL high school discussions.
Oh, I thought the name, name image and likeness. Just to remind everybody, right? Yeah.
Which we know is, which we know is transformed college athletics, but it is and, and folks, yeah,
we shouldn't be too surprised. It has trickled into our high school athletics and is, you know,
part of these meetings being discussed by superintendents, coach advisories. And I don't know
those outcomes yet. Just research and what happened at the meeting. But I know Jimmy Kay will be
on here talking about that. A couple of other small changes though to update from that volleyball.
Right. volleyball, some tournament changes teams can now have 18 players that used to be 15. So,
you know, more opportunity for those essential curriculars to be rostered and in those uniforms.
And the highest seeded team in volleyball will now be considered the home team during tournaments.
So your home team, if you have the highest seed, that's kind of cool too, because I bet a lot
of tournaments, there are multiple schools at those spaces and certain schools host. And it was
probably kind of figuring like, hey, how do we determine who's the home team when there are,
you know, eight schools all at one location. Well, it's now the highest seed team in volleyball.
Also tennis, big, big essential curricular also happening right now in our schools, but tennis
seeding and eligibility had some updates. A new seeding criteria is established for subsectional
tournaments. Division one players must now play a minimum of six matches during their regular
season. And division two requires five matches. So no, just playing a couple matches and being in
the tournament, you have to have a minimum matches. And smart watches are now prohibited on the
court. I'm not sure why we're going to have to ask some tennis experts.
In our essential curricular world, I know a few, we're going to ask them, I'm a really abandoned
smart watches in your, in your essential curricular. Just a couple other, you know, as we're talking
about hurdles and home runs, which is spring sports golf teams now conduct practice rounds
at regional tournaments sites. So you're going to get some rounds out of where the regional
tournaments happen. And we get some practice rounds in, which is really, I think going to be
helpful to those players right now golf season is going strong. Right five conference realignment
plans are approved. So there's some conference realignment in Wisconsin. And don't forget cross
country. I mentioned earlier, like our eight player football, you know, athletes have to have
cross country level endurance. Well, cross country added permitting headgear language to match
track and field regulations. So, so you're going to have, you know, the same headgear you'd have in
track and field you can now have in cross country. And let's a little update from the coach advisory
meeting with, you know, WIA and Jacob and Tim, you know, that's just my reporting out. Wow.
On things, but we'll get Jimmy Kay on here who's an expert on all these things because he himself
is part of coach advisory. He can speak to some of these things, especially
that question, Jacob, that Tim and I are always even curious about how is NIL, name,
image and likeness stuff impacting high school sports now too.
Well, and the question now is truly, how is it impacting? Because as Jacob put in the chat
for us right there, it has been approved. You know, and so yeah, and I don't think we're surprised
to see that. So I'm just, you know, thinking about this, you know, trying to wrap this all together
and going, okay, well, AI, and this is one of those things, you know what, if you're particularly,
you know, an athlete, I, right now, I do not think I can create a chatbot that will take over
the quarterback position on 11 or 8 player football. Just saying, right? I mean, so, yeah, you know,
Jacob, you know, we can't do that. Yeah, right? I mean, we don't know. Now,
we start people like, yeah, Tim, don't you worry, though, it's common. Well, when that happens,
though, then we're going to have to have a whole new round of discussions about, can we have name
image and likeness issues on an AI fully autonomous robot? I don't know. I know I went way
on. So far, the AI can only play flag football, and that's not even good. So it's coming.
Yeah, absolutely. And, and I looked it up while we were while we were kind of the smart watch,
the smart watch. No, I look at and I all approval. So, you know, like Jacob noted in the chat,
here is proof, you know, the Wisconsin Interest Classic Athletic Association, WIA, you know,
voted in this meeting to approve it. The rule change will go into effect April 25, 2025. So it's
in effect, right? And, and that, and that Wisconsin joins 40 other states that are permitting
NIL deals to high school students. There are, of course, some specific restrictions. These NIL
deals must be for activities not associated with a student school team school conference or the
WIA. So it's individual athlete deals. This is outside of, you know, school school team or conference
or WIA, and students cannot wear their school team uniform in any endorsement deal,
or use marks and logos of their schools in those NIL deals. And another important limitation
different than college is that that boosters who have any connection to the school whatsoever,
whether they're alum, apparent coach, a prospective coach, or anyone that's given to the school
within an athlete's time there, they are not allowed to give any compensation towards an athlete.
Okay. So like a booster can't do an NIL deal. So there are some strict regulations around this.
We'll see how it pans out. Initially, the coach's advisory seemed to think this is a positive
development. So we'll get Jimmy Keon and see what he thinks. But so far, people reporting out.
So this is a good step forward in NIL for high school. It should improve, you know, both
district sports and these essential curriculars. So let's see how it pans out.
If I could say one thing, and I just really want to hear what you guys have to say about this.
I was talking to my uncle Paul over the weekend about this change. And he's in, you know,
he teaches hockey to kids and he knows about coaching. And you guys value essential curriculars
as much or more than anybody. One of the worries we were talking about is, well, what if you're
the high school quarterback and Al's orange chicken restaurant wants you to be the face of their
poster. And it gives you $2,000 to be the, you know, he can't wear your jersey, but you wear the
generic under armor jersey on the thing. Are you all of a sudden, you know, totally stressed out
every game? Oh, I don't want to lose that thing. You know, that $2,000 helps my mom make rent.
You know, what are we introducing into the system? Again, I think some of these things are
dealt with in college already. So maybe there are lessons we can learn by bringing in, you know,
Andrew Luck from Stanford to tell us, hey, what have you seen for college kids? Do you have any
thoughts on that? Because I can see how that could be a problem. I'll go quickly on that.
Jay, I think that's an incredibly powerful point, Jacob, that we're going to need to continue to
keep, you know, at the forefront is these things happen because maybe we're like, yeah, it would
never happen. Oh, I could see something like that happening. And we really need to make sure that
anybody, anybody is protected from that type of, you know, because in that sense, you're being
owned by somebody who's, you know, using your name, image, and likeness. And I'm pretty sure that
that's not what's happening when weedies might go knocking on some high schoolers door.
And maybe that's what it is that you'll be looking for is that maybe you don't want Bob's orange
chicken shack using your name, image, and likeness. And you should hold out for weedies. That's my
thoughts, Johnny. And, and you know, what we're learning as we go, I can only speak to this as a
college coach. It has changed those dynamics quite a bit, Jacob. And we're navigating that as we
learned, especially for college athletes. And I can only anticipate that those pressures will
trickle down into high school athletes that have NAL deals. I will save this to offer a resource
for anyone out there. Your parent, maybe you know, a young athlete, or you yourself are a young
athlete, you know, the WIA has partnered. I think it's a pretty good organization. It's a Milwaukee
group called influential athlete, right? It's a Milwaukee based company. And they focus on advising
and educating high school athletes on how to navigate NAL. So if you're interested in those kinds
of questions, right? There's a great resource. They're a partner at the WIA, a influential athlete,
right? That's a free ad form. We'll have to reach out to them. Maybe they want to come on and talk
to us on bus defensiles. But you know, they really help you navigate the fact that you're still an
amateur athlete, right? And so all your rules for eligibility that are required at the high school
level are still existing. So navigating NAL can be kind of precarious. So there's some experts
out there who can be, you know, partners in educating you on how to navigate that, whether you're
a coach or an athlete or a parent, you know, check that out, official partner of the WIA. So I
trust that. They do their investigating. So influential athlete, Milwaukee based company can answer
some of those questions as we learn and move through this. A lot there, man. But Jacob, great question.
Great curveball to start off the show. Sorry, I was able to keep my eye on that ball, but you know,
bring a knuckleball next time. I'm not sure you got to have more than a couple of pitches, right?
You got to have more than a couple of pitches. I'll see his channel. He can teach me to throw a
knuckleball. I'll get there you go. Go for it, Jacob, because you know what now is it's time
for your moment of Zen.
I have no right to despair. I insist on hope.
Hey, thanks for grabbing today's episode of busted pencils hurdles and home runs. Remember to grab
great podcasts packed full with more busted pencils content, an apple podcast, Spotify, and of course
on the civic media website or you can always find us at busted pencils dot com where you can
follow, like, review, do whatever it is you like. Reach out to us. We love hearing from you,
pencil busters, but don't be late for a home room on Monday. And be sure to grab next week's class
in session on Wednesday. And if you don't already know, you're going to love this. You can always
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stations for an hour of your favorite blue collar scholars, Tim and Johnny and keep busting pencils.