Class in Session- Otus: Giving Data a Good Name, with Chris Hull

This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk.

Here are your hosts, Dr. Tim Slecker, and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,

educated educators talking education.

Hey, yo, listen up.

Welcome to Busted Pencils.

We got a class in session.

That's right, folks.

Class in session, a special one today with a guest.

But before we jump right into it, just how you doing this

morning, you know what?

I'm doing pretty well, Johnny.

It's been a lot and I've really been

trying to take in the lessons that we've

been talking about here of setting aside that time

to make sure that I can be a regulated adult in the room,

especially with my teaching that I do,

so that I can come in and be my best self.

So I've been really careful in these past couple weeks

to turn off the news when I'm not at work,

give myself space so that I'm ready to go.

And you know what, Johnny, I am so excited to be here

for class in session this midweek episode.

Always one of my favorites, getting

to talk to an educated educator doing wonderful work

in the world of education.

But before we get into that, how are you, Johnny?

Hey, man, I'm doing all right, you know, my vibe.

I'm all about that staying regulated in things.

And I'm working with teachers all throughout the week,

so they help keep me energized being

around young people who are excited to navigate

these kind of, as we can put it to mulch you as times.

Just it also for our listeners, just a reminder,

just to not be, you know, too focused on the news

while she's at work.

Well, part of her job is like getting the news out.

So you're there.

So it's good that you're finding that balance.

Let's dive right into it today listeners

because we got a great class in session with the guest

without any further ado.

Let me introduce him.

He is an educator turned entrepreneur who saw

a massive gap in education technology

and decided to fill it.

We got with us today Chris Hall, co founder and president

of Otis took his experience in the classroom

and built a platform that connects student data,

assessments, and instruction all in one place.

I love this.

What started as a solution for his own middle school students

has now grown to support over a million learners

across 200 districts as both an innovator and a parent.

Your Chris is on a mission to ensure that educators

and families have the insights they need

to help every student be successful.

Welcome the busted pencils.

Our guy here, Chris Hall, how you doing?

Doing well, I'm excited to be here

and excited to weather his warmer in Chicago.

It's like 50 degrees warmer.

It's all the way up to 46.

There we go.

That's right, it's getting warmer everywhere.

I know we're experiencing flood warnings.

Hopefully you're not getting too flooded.

I know Chicago doesn't have too many flood problems,

but some of our listeners in low places,

not in low cultural places, but in low elevation,

they know about this because the snow is melting.

It's coming down the river's rising,

but hey, it's warmer out, so we're gonna stick to that

and enjoy it.

So Chris, many ed tech platforms

kind of claimed a personalized learning, right?

This is a big thing.

I know we've got to talk over the past

about like one to one programs and things like that.

But in reality, they sometimes teachers

are like, this is just too complicated.

There's too many things.

Talk to us a little bit about like, I know I intro to it.

You started Otis, you have this kind of experience.

Tell us about Otis and how does it make teaching,

how does it bring value to what teachers

are out there navigating?

Yeah, I think the biggest struggle teachers faces,

they don't have enough time.

I think they have the desire, they have the passion,

they have the want to be able to connect to all their students.

But when I was the seventh grade social studies teacher,

I had 150 students,

how am I gonna really personalize 150 lessons?

And so Otis really allows you to kind of group kids

and differentiate and all of a sudden really get a sense

of who they are and who they were

so that you can really address what they need to do.

And we do that by putting all of this information

in one place as you said it much more eloquently than I did.

But really our goal is to be able to streamline

some of this information, the insights

that your colleagues might have had,

the year before, the insights they might have had,

we wanna be able to capture those

so that we're not constantly rediscovering this about our kids.

We can kind of build off of what we already know

and we can really tap into the true potential of each student.

And Otis does that by instead of jumping around

to 10, 12 different places,

hey, have one jump off point.

Still use some resources that can be

from a variety of places,

but it kind of gives you that home base

and it gives you a place to really start.

And I love that.

I'm kind of reminded in this past blue season of my chart,

no matter where I go to the doctor

that kind of have this medical practitioners

have all this information about me.

And I know folks worry about information

and privacy and that stuff,

but I land on the side of men in this age.

Everything is obtainable.

There's all kinds of digital information.

But I liked my health practitioners have an info

on my past health,

having everything easily accessible to me and to them.

And so that's kind of maybe a little corollary

for folks who aren't in education out there.

You know, Otis helps bring this stuff together

for teachers, compiling into one place

because I can remember,

and I'm gonna ask you to think back to your teaching time,

but I can remember we'd always have these meetings,

usually over some coffee, sometimes a happy hour,

but you meet with the grade below

and a grade above and you kind of share notes.

You'd sit down and you'd go through,

yeah, we're old man here, listeners, if you haven't,

realize that yet, you know,

we're an old generation of teachers,

but we used to have spiral calendars

and kind of notes all in them

and all kinds of things that we'd bring to those meetings

and talk about, you know,

where students each were at, what they needed,

kind of what we got covered that year,

what they were ready for the next year.

And so it was time consuming and you know, to be honest,

it happened that maybe like I'd say like 30% efficiency

because we are mostly socializing

and talking about a few high-need students,

which isn't bad, but there were a lot of ways

that certain kids could slip through the cracks.

So I love this kind of thing, Chris,

thinking back to your teaching, I mean,

like your aha moment,

like how do we get from Chris teaching 150 social studies

students big, you're not like,

I think I got an idea to help

and all these teachers around the country.

No, I think you highlighted one of the key meetings

that was the aha moment.

We called them articulation meetings that happened

during the last week of school and you had all of a sudden,

I was the seventh grade teacher.

I would meet with the sixth grade team.

They'd run through the list of sixth graders

and then we'd meet with the eighth grade team,

run through the list of students.

And you had like 75 minutes to get through 150 names.

You're not focusing on 150 and you're not able to give,

hey, you know, Johnny loves hockey.

You know, he's going to be able to relate it to hockey.

It's going to be really helpful all of a sudden.

It's like, no, you don't get that.

You're getting your high flyers.

You might get a couple things.

Us teachers like to talk.

We might be talking about what we're doing

in the summer, taking away some of that 75 minutes.

And all of a sudden, who's going to remember

that information come next school year?

You're just going to have these tidbits of notes.

So it was during this meeting about, man,

how can we be more efficient of how we articulate

how a student is doing?

Also, the other meeting that came into play

was problem solving meetings.

Where all of a sudden we'd get into a room

and you'd be like, hey, we're really struggling.

Jess is not really able to disconnect from the news.

She's really letting outside forces come into play

and it's distracting her from her work.

How are we going to really keep her engaged?

Well, we spend like 25 minutes like triangulating.

Who is Jess?

How is she doing in Johnny's room versus my room?

And all of a sudden, we didn't really

get a problem solved until 20 minutes in.

So Otis allows you to capture those notes

that can live in a profile just like you explained

with the my chart.

And it really allows you to then, when needed, tap into it.

Be like, oh, man, Johnny sometimes

misses school for hockey tournaments.

Cool, that's good to know.

But it also means when I'm relating something from US history,

I could relate it to hockey styles.

Or I can, hey, let me give you this example.

Or if all of a sudden I kind of know those ways

to really engage with a student.

And so for me, that aha moment was,

how can I be more efficient and effective with my time?

And that's always what I wanted technology to do.

And I would have one-on-one meetings with my kids.

And those one-on-one meetings were super valuable.

But how could I scale that?

How could I scale that insight to the fellow teachers

I was working with?

But also for my principal, how could we really say,

hey, how are the hockey players doing

versus the orchestra kids?

Or how are my third graders with an IEP

doing versus my third graders who are in our lunch

intervention?

Being able to ask and answer those specific questions

is really what Otis allows you to do.

And I love this, Chris, because so often, listener,

we hear about data that we have.

And we're doing meetings to aggregate data,

to discuss data.

And oftentimes, we hear that in terms of scores and things

like this.

So this is helping give data a good name, Chris,

because it's not just a number.

There's some real, like you said,

there's some real capturing of that important relationship

stuff, the things that each of our students bring to our classroom

that's unique.

That helps a teacher when they have 150 is generous.

We have teachers out there who have like 50 an hour

for seven periods.

So thinking about this, it is extraordinary

to do great teaching.

And we have a lot of great teachers out there.

To me, this is one of those things that helps

document that for the teacher to say,

oh, I just had a moment with Johnny and about his hockey.

And we learned about that.

And I also know six other kids are in a similar thing.

Let me look at that real quick and see the kind of data on that.

That's more than just their test score and how they're doing.

So we can really get into how to best support all of our students.

I love this, Chris.

You know, also, I can imagine, ideally,

we all love to think about, you know,

our teachers are in their classrooms

and they have a generation of the same teachers, right?

So seventh grade teachers, seventh grade teacher,

and the seventh and eighth grade team,

they've been working together for 15, 20 years.

That's ideal, but it's not always possible, right?

There's a lot of changes, a lot of movement in our schools.

And sometimes that real important relational stuff

goes away when a teacher goes away.

So it's really helpful that, say, Chris,

you got moved to a different grade

or a different school in the district,

or we're out for a year or something.

Maybe your district has something awesome

like has a sabbatical where you go

and do some work in a school or do some accreditation stuff.

Boom, it doesn't matter.

They still have that kind of information

and things to pass on.

So really helpful for school leaders out there.

Chris, just picking your brain,

I mean, your thumbs on the pulse of this stuff.

So like, you know, how I brought up data,

we hear about data, we hear about data,

talk about, you know, the connection between data

and real student growth,

and how, like, this kind of data that you have, you know,

help so many teachers collect and maintain.

Like, how do you see it as value added?

Yeah, I think a lot of times we collect data

just to collect the information,

but we're not actually using it.

And so one of the things we need to do

is we're going to take the time out of a student's day

to measure how they're performing.

We need to make sure that we're going to use it,

but how do we make it useful, actionable?

And that's really what Otis helps you do.

You're doing your normal day routine.

You might give a formative assessment,

you might give a pre-check,

but you need to then look at,

hey, how are my kids progressing on these skills?

And it's really about giving the necessary context

to that information and making it so that it actually

fits into something that's going to be helpful.

And that's where I think we often miss the mark,

where how can we actually make what we're learning

about kids actually translate to something

that's going to make them better?

Again, I know we're talking about it,

and we had talked before the show

about how you enjoy hockey.

That's a cool little bit to know,

but I could actually use that to streamline

one of my lessons to be able to say,

hey, we just had the core four going on,

and how were you so passionate?

We all of a sudden can use a moment to get that engagement,

because when engagement is high,

you are all of a sudden going to see the growth.

And in addition, we might then be able to use,

let's say a skill we're working on like math.

And you might say, hey, what was the goal game average here?

All of a sudden, you're now going to be willing

to put forth that effort because you're curious.

You're engaged.

And that's what we're really trying to do

is trying to not add more work, not add more tools,

but take what you already have to do

and capture the information around it.

We had talked about health earlier.

You know, if you wear a Fitbit or an Apple Watch

or like a Garmin, that's keeping some really good information.

We want to, and again, it's just wearing it.

It's just on your wrist, you're just doing it.

And that's also what Otis does.

Like you give your assessments right within Otis.

So all of a sudden, your classroom assessments

are right next to your diagnostic assessments

or your common assessments.

So now you're not just looking at a single point.

You're looking at a collection of information

along with their actual work.

Oh, this was their writing sample.

Oh, this was their project or video.

And that collection, that context allows us not to be like,

well, I know Johnny's not just this one number,

but that one number could kind of move the needle

a little bit.

Oh, I'm going to share this a little bit here.

And so that's really what we want to do

is put everything into context so you can take action.

Yeah, Chris is awesome too.

And having an Ed Tech guy here who's got such close relationship

with what it's like to be a teacher is unique

and I think so important.

And Ed Tech right now is booming.

I mean, it's always been important,

but I mean, it is just like growing faster

than most of us can even organize

to kind of figure out how to use it in our classrooms.

And that's not even getting into the AI aspect of stuff, right?

And I think we talked about it before, you know,

technology isn't good or bad, right?

It's these, it's how we use it.

Like how it's implemented into our classroom.

You gave us some great examples of it,

but how do you, how do you as an Ed Tech guy,

especially as, you know, a creator and now, you know,

like supporter and facilitator of this technology

as a tool, Otis, how do you, how do you keep it

as a tool that can be empowering?

Like what are some of the ways that you face

those barriers or challenges that, oh, technology is bad?

I think you got to listen and you got to learn.

I think you have to really, you know,

I was a teacher all the way until 2018,

but I think it's important that we never forget

that we have to understand where the classroom is at today.

And it's important that that classroom is different,

you know, if we look in 2025, if we compare it to 2021,

if we compare that to 2019, you know,

we're talking less than six, seven years here

and it's changed dramatically.

And so in order to really be a supplemental tool for teachers

because I believe full-heartedly,

we're never replacing a teacher.

You're never gonna get that connection

without the teachers, but what we need to do

is we actually have to solve the problems

the teacher is facing.

How can we make them more efficient and more effective?

How can we help them?

And that can go from helping families.

If all of a sudden we know families have the information

they need and we're all on the same page, that's great.

How can we take that information

that a teacher is gathering and ensure

that it's getting to the administrator

so that teacher doesn't have to do more work

to all of a sudden re-enter it, double entry.

All of that's the goal.

Is if we can have this comprehensive understanding

of where are kids been, where are they now?

So we can see that progression and growth over time.

If we can able to begin to be able to understand

the diagnostic and predictive nature

of how we get to where we wanna go,

all of a sudden we're moving in that direction.

And so instead of having technology be something

that's gonna be a replacement for teachers

or something that's gonna add to their workload,

we need to listen and learn to how it's gonna help them.

And when you do that, then people get excited.

Then people are happy to have that addition to their life

because it's making it better instead of making it harder.

Yeah, I love this, Chris.

You know, one of my favorite things

and I'll put my parent cap on.

I already have my hat on, but put my parent cap on.

As a parent, I think this is such a nice thing too

because I think you were alluded to

like parents can see this too.

And so, you know, there's a lot of different programs

out there and most districts have some online form

of seeing grades, right?

Like I can look at attendance in grades

maybe even some test scores or something there.

Or I have those from conferences or whatever,

but I have a lot of numbers about my kid, right?

And I think as a parent, what's really nice is also

to be able to have something that said,

like you gave that example, Johnny really likes hockey.

I can see there's some success when I connect it.

When I know that our children are seen

as more than a number by their teachers

and by their school community,

it just means something more to me.

We talk to a lot of parents who, you know,

struggle with their students.

They're them feeling like their students are valued

in schools or that they matter

or that they're seen or valued.

That, you know, as parents,

we get to see the unique things our kids have.

But we always wonder, is that recognized

and valued at school?

And this is one of those ways

because I do believe,

and I tell parents it's all time, teachers care.

And they are spread so thin often

that they might not have a mechignism

or a way to share with you

that they notice this really exciting thing about your kid.

They are noticing it.

Believe in your teachers.

Your teachers are drawn to teaching

because they truly love kids

and lots of different kinds of kids

in their classrooms and they're working.

But Chris, this kind of captures that moment.

So I love that opportunity

that doesn't put more on the teacher.

But when the teacher sees and makes those connections,

can document it and share it in a way

that it gets out there.

Love that stuff, Chris.

Lastly, I want to ask you,

and I ask this a part of listeners often,

your favorite story of seeing Otis in action.

Like just one that stands out to you that just like boom,

that's the example.

Yeah, I think if you were to ask,

I mean, so much of what you just talked about resonates,

but if you were to ask your kid as they get off the bus,

what did you learn in school?

They're not giving you very detailed,

they're descriptive answers.

They're talking about the recess,

they're talking about the latest,

high jinks has happened at the back of the bus.

It's amazing to hear all of a sudden,

a family member saying like,

oh, I could see within Otis the ability

that hey, my third grader is learning

to understand why a character's traits are motivating

or changing their decision making in a story.

And I always use the Harry Potter example,

like why does Harry Potter always go to see Hagrid,

even though everyone tells them not to?

Well, if you can understand that motivation,

you're actually working on a skill

that's happening in your classroom as a parent,

they're not gonna tell me that,

they're not gonna tell me they're working with that.

So that insight, all of a sudden,

means we're rowing in the same direction.

And it's not just a number, right?

It's the skill, it's the words.

You know, you could all, though,

it's really that same student might have taken a test

and they only took, instead of taking 40 minutes,

which they normally do, they only took nine.

All of a sudden you can say, hey, did you try your best?

Did you reread through it?

You're not accusatory.

You just have this little bit of tidbit of information

that allows you to converse with them.

And those conversations are the best success.

We're all of a sudden you're able to really see

at an individual level that we're better able to connect

what's happening.

And all of a sudden you're gonna then take that

in the same school district

and they're really able to curb chronic absenteeism

because they have that engagement from the families,

to the students, to the educators, all in one.

And really, that's when you know

you're having those aha moments more consistently.

All right, cause this is awesome stuff.

Where can our listeners get more direct us

to where we can all learn more about Otis?

Yeah, definitely.

So that's otus.com.

So Otis.com, organizing technology for us, right?

So they were all being able to be organized, streamlined

and ready to go.

And there you can learn a lot more information

of what we do, how Otis is a tool that can help do this,

how are AI assistants like a college professor

having like five TAs.

And now you as a kindergarten teacher,

a third grade teacher, you now have a set of assistants.

Again, all supporting your work with kids,

giving that insights to administrators and also families.

Awesome, Chris.

Hey, thanks for bustin' pencils with us today.

It's a pleasure to have you here.

And thank you for taking your experience as a teacher

and amplifying it to help so many other teachers.

I really appreciate you.

I really appreciate the opportunity.

Thank you.

And now for your moment of zin.

There are people everywhere who want to see

a different kind of world who think that people

in other countries are human beings as we are.

And that if somebody is suffering anywhere in the world,

we have a responsibility to help them.

Oh, listeners, thank you for listening to bustin' pencils.

Class in session today with Chris Hall.

And for grabbing podcasts like this one

and other special bustin' pencils content

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stations for an hour of your favorite blue collar scholars.

Tim and Johnny, keep bustin' pencils.

Oh, listeners, thank you for listening to bustin' pencils live

at 3 p.m. central��다 across all the Civic Media Network

stations for an hour of your favorite blue collar scholars.

And for grabbing podcasts like this one and other special bustin' pencils

live at 3 p.m. central time across all the Civic Media Network

stations for an hour of your favorite blue collar scholars.

And for grabbing podcasts like this one and other special bustin' pencils

live at 3 p.m. central��다 across all the Civic Media Network

stations for an hour of your favorite blue collar scholars.

And for grabbing podcasts like this one and other special bustin' pencils

live at 3 p.m. central time across all the Civic Media Network