This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk.
Here are your hosts, Dr. Tim Slecker, and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,
educated educators talking education.
Welcome, Busted Pencils fully-ledded education talk,
educated educators talking education.
Yes, it is here, Monday morning, home, room.
Who?
Days feel like weeks, evenings.
Oh, it's just a lot.
You guys, Johnny, Jess, let's just,
let's just, you know, kind of be like,
we always check in with everybody,
but you know, I feel like every time we check in,
we're kind of like, well, you know,
I'm holding back the damn with all 10 fingers
and all 10 toes at this point.
And even now, I'm even thinking,
I need to stick my nose in one of the holes of the damn.
You know, how do we make this happy?
Johnny.
Oh, man, I was hoping you were throwing that to Jess,
because I don't know.
I don't know exactly the way to go at that, Tim,
other than, man, there's a lot of contagious joy
that we can spread when we just take a chance to breathe
and say, hey, what's happening this week?
What can we do to make things a little bit better
in our classrooms and our schools and our communities
at work?
You know, I know it sounds super cheesy,
and, but, you know, be the change.
And sometimes that's when things feel heavy
and moving real slow, just give it a little life,
give it a little energy, give it a little pup,
put some dance in your step.
I know I was pretty, I was pretty out.
You know, we joked you as joked about it last week,
but, you know, I was flue denier pushing through
because stuff had to happen
and then finally got a chance to rest in men.
So I can imagine folks are either battling through
the thick of winter, right?
Which brings with it the flu season.
So any little joy we can put out there
and a little spark of energy that we can add,
you know, to the other kinds of contagious things.
I'm here for it.
So let's bring the energy today.
It's home room.
We're glad you're listening with us.
Lots happening in education.
Whoo, all kinds of things that maybe they're not so joyful,
but we're gonna try and give it, give it some oomph today.
Yeah.
Jess, what's happening in the world of education?
I mean, other than what everybody always knows,
but I'm sure you got some great stuff for us.
I do.
Well, great is a subjective term here.
As we were preparing for this, I did ask you,
is there any good news in education?
Well, there is good news in education, Tim.
And that good news is that we here at Busted Pencils
are some educated educators
and we are ready to talk education.
As Dr. Johnny said, sometimes you got to be that change.
You got to be the oomph, you got to bring the dance
because the world is kind of dark.
It's overwhelming.
And I definitely feel that.
But being here with you guys,
I know that we can turn this around.
However, if I was, yeah, the dancing though,
that might make a lot of people laugh
if people saw me try to take that on.
Potentially, potentially.
However, we do need to understand
what's going on in the news, pertaining to education.
So let's jump into it.
We've got an article here from the 74.
Is Trump gutting education research a new beginning
or just slashing and burning?
The Trump administration's gutting of the Institute
of Education Sciences last Monday,
temporarily disables an essential source of data
on a host of basic information.
Everything from high school graduation rates
and school safety to which neighborhoods
have the highest quality schools.
At its most basic, it tells Americans
how well US schools educate young people
at a time when the public is more focused
than ever on basic questions of achievements.
One industry insider called Monday's actions
pretty devastating to the research infrastructure
with several others saying
administration officials canceled 189 contracts.
But even that was unclear after Monday's chaos.
An administration official said the number totaled 89,
citing a tweet from the Department of Government Efficiency
that put the dollar total at $881 million.
The department didn't issue any official statements
or breakdowns of the cuts.
Quote, it's apocalyptic is all I can say.
Said the director of one federal office
who asked not to be identified.
Several sources said Monday's moves don't affect
with widely considered a key IES function,
the national assessment of educational progress or NAP,
commonly known as the nation's report card.
NAP will continue to be administered sources said,
but contracts to analyze the data
and report it publicly were canceled
and will be offered to new bitters.
An education department official on Tuesday
said the 74 told the 74 that any IES contracts
required by law will be reissued for new competition.
Well, NAP, you know, I'm glad NAP's back in the headlines.
We talked about that with our friend, Dr. Nancy Carlson.
Page a little bit about the science of reading
kind of introduced that and had an incredible discussion
the last Saturday with Dr. Paul Thomas
and what do the NAP scores actually show us
and things like that?
And the potential that maybe the NAP scores
are indicating that the science of reading isn't working.
However, though, Jess, I'm glad you point that out, NAP.
We gotta come back and we gotta visit this all the time
because it is one of those numbers that is,
it's more than a data point of how students are doing.
In fact, I would argue that it's really even not that anymore
that whenever those scores come out,
people who are either in favor of public education
or who are against public education,
wait for those scores because those scores
are the ammunition that are used typically
to say either schools are great or schools stink.
And as Johnny and I have been pointing out now too
since the non-stop COVID learning loss, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
NAP scores have been declining
and it's been all in the news.
This is interesting though
because I didn't pay attention to this one as deeply
until you just said this now, Jess.
Johnny, I wanna put this to you as a question here
directly from that 74 saying that the NAP
will still be administered
but contracts to analyze and report the data publicly were canceled.
Is that the good news hidden in here that we've been looking for?
I don't think so, Tim.
I mean, I like data to be interpreted.
I like the National Center for Educational Statistics
even though myself, not a quantitative guy,
that's what us nerds call the researchers
who crunch the statistics, right?
They run the numbers and they tell us a lot.
Well, numbers hide things and they illuminate other things.
I like the scientific method, I like math.
I don't put all my trust and faith in it alone.
Like those numbers can tell us different things
and so we discuss them and we interpret what the numbers tell us
but I like having the numbers.
It's not a problem with the data.
It's a problem with how we make decisions using that data, right?
And so, or how much of it and how often we collect it, right?
We know we're in an era of just way too many tests
and standardized tests for our kids.
But I wanna say, Tim, to me,
I'm kind of bummed that these cuts are impacting
the National Center for Educational Statistics
and I like the nation's report card.
I don't like often how it's being discussed
and attached to policy and what I mean by that is,
yeah, there's some declines and scores
but let's look at what's going on in these kids' worlds
and what's happening in our schools.
Is it might it be that they feel unsafe in schools
because gun laws are restricting the ability
to ensure kids' safety's in school?
Did we have a national, you know, in a global pandemic
where we missed some schools and things were changing
and we're grieving.
So grief and change, right?
Do we have a struggling economy right now?
Some more of our children are experiencing poverty
than previous decades.
Yeah, so those scores, if we talk about the declines
in ways that, you know, don't blame the victim.
That's when we say, well, look, Timmy or Johnny in fourth grade,
you know, they're reading scores and their math scores
are lower than past generation or, you know,
than previous years.
Well, what's happening in Timmy and Johnny's lives
or in their schools or in their community?
Instead of worrying or blaming Tim and Johnny,
let's look at the bigger things happening.
So I like the data being there,
but the biggest alarm to me, Tim,
and listeners, I'm gonna come back around to this.
You know, I love that little snappy book,
Timothy Snyder gives this on tyranny
and one of those, you know, cautions,
things he says for us to kind of pay close attention to.
And here we are, is that we need to believe in truth.
And I'm not saying that numbers are absolute truth,
but they help us navigate and arrive at truth.
But to abandon facts is to abandon freedom, right?
If nothing is true, then no one can criticize power
because there's no basis on which to do so, right?
If nothing is true, then it's all spectacle.
So canceling funding to the National Center
for the Education Statistics is saying,
hey, here's some numbers that help you experts get to truth.
And we want to mess around with all that.
We would prefer that there's no numbers
tracking what our college students are doing post-graduation.
There are no numbers that help us understand,
you know, the correlations potentially
between test scores and nutrition.
We don't want you to have those numbers
because we want to make sweeping statements, right?
That may potentially be harmful to children.
And you can't defend against that, right?
And you can't criticize power if we don't have facts
to base that criticism on, right?
So what we know is that the biggest wallet
pays for the most blinding lights.
That's a quote from Timothy Snyder,
the biggest wallet plays for the most blinding lights, right?
And so why are we making these cuts?
Why are we ditching the data?
And I know Tim, I might have thrown you a curveball
because we're usually pretty critical
of what's being done with that data.
But I want to make that emphasis.
Yeah, we're here to say, hey, how we're using the data
may be a problem.
Let's change that.
But that data is really important for us
to have a foundation to stand on
to make an argument for or against
particular policies in our schools.
Well, you pointed, you know, this out
and just read this part too and go back to this.
And this, where you went with that,
maybe look at the sentence a little bit differently now.
The Nape will continue to be administered,
but contracts to analyze the data
and report it publicly were canceled
and will be offered to new bidders.
And I'm wondering if that's kind of what we're saying here,
Johnny, is that, hey, you know what?
The people who used to report this data,
they're not allowed to do it anymore.
We're going to offer it to new bidders.
And in fact, those new bidders are going to be the ones
who get those contracts are going to be the ones
to present that data the way we empower,
want that data to be presented.
And Jess, I see you're like, oh, my goodness.
Yeah, that's worrying, right?
Because numbers are one thing.
But the people who make sense of the numbers
can tell you what that means.
That's where the power is.
Because numbers can say anything.
And unless you're trained in how to understand statistics,
those are just numbers.
They don't mean anything.
It's a different language.
You need the interpreter who can put it
into the language that you can understand.
And if the person who is doing that
has a strong political agenda,
that can be a real problem.
Johnny, so when you were kind of giving us
an educated educators education, I was like,
oh, I'm going to go back and look at that sentence again,
because that's what we're talking about here is,
is that, hey, you know what?
We're just going to shut down the people
who tell the story of the data.
We're going to offer that up to some new storytellers,
ones that are more in line with the stories
that we would like to tell.
And yeah, that reference back then to Timothy Schneider,
holy crap, man, you just,
you landed a big one on me there, Johnny.
Well, Tim, I told you, I'll bring the dance, man.
We've got to have fun.
You know, Bertolt Brecht, the playwright, wrote, right?
And a child in the place asks, you know,
and at all, will there be singing in dark times?
Your response being, yes, there will be singing
about the dark times.
So let's sing it loud.
Let's dance to it and let's be the change.
And let's bring the fun.
And sometimes that means communicating facts,
but having fun with them.
So put a smile on your face.
I hate to tell people to smile.
So we'll do it.
Smile and hopefully get a smile in return.
And let's keep spreading the joy because, you know,
in dark times, we'll sing about the dark times.
And guess what, human communities were really good
at taking care of each other and adapting.
This is a big time of change.
It's a huge, huge time of change.
And so yeah, when, you know, we're seeing all of this chaos.
And I think that's the word that continues to be put forward.
Within that chaos, Johnny, I think you're saying,
you know what, we're going to dance to the chaos.
And a, you know, the listener of busted pencils.
You know, we're going to keep you informed.
We're going to, you know, cover the dark news,
but we're always going to bring it to you
with that Tim Johnny and Jess style that says,
hey, you know what, we can look at these things.
And Johnny can tell us to sing about the dark times.
And we're going to make sure that Tim never stands up
and dances on camera.
Unless we will make sure that Tim does stand up
and dance on camera.
Yeah, that, that, that should be really good.
And Jess, okay, so, and one more, you know, question here.
So what should we look for in new interpreters on NAPE?
What agenda should we be watching for?
And yeah, I'm going to think about this one
because, you know, the data itself has,
in one way, this kind of, it seems like overkill
because the interpreters of this data have,
particularly on the NAPE data,
have largely been telling the story of failed public schools
for a long time.
So I got to think that some of these people's contracts
that are canceled are kind of sitting there going like,
but wait, we've been telling the,
the dismal failure story of public schools now for 20 years.
Why do we lose our contract?
There's that, or potentially,
just going to throw this out there.
Well, since we were talking about the science of reading,
Dr. Nancy Carlson Page, Paul Thomas,
Paul actually pointing out that,
hey, guess what, NAPE scores?
Maybe they dropped because of the influence
of the science of reading.
And, oh, somebody's out there saying,
wait a minute, we're not going to have that type
of an interpretation.
So in other words, will the NAPE data then conform
to the policies and the curriculum
and the non kind of academics stuff
that we're being mandated to teach?
And this is just a whole lot going on there.
But, you know, I would guess that what's going to come out
when you say the agenda,
what is the agenda they administration is currently pushing?
And for that one, we don't need to look very far
to know it.
I mean, there's been a real crystal clear
that this administration wants to tell the story
of a public school system that's in desperate need
of reform that needs to stop doing the,
what they call the DEI critical race theory indoctrination,
the hating America.
And, you know, if you're going to be anybody,
that's the type of an interpretation
we're going to be looking for.
Johnny, also, oh, my goodness.
Throw that out for me.
Say happy president state everybody out there.
You know, it is a holiday.
Some of you may, some of you teachers
listening may even be off school today.
I know we're not teaching today.
And so happy president state folks.
And if you're out there protesting, please be safe.
We understand that please be safe.
But lots to come, Jesse, Jesse, that's a Johnny
and Jesse combined together there.
We'll keep watching this though too,
but yeah, the education sciences.
And as we have more and again, listener out there.
Direct information about how these cuts are hitting.
If anybody wants to come on the show
and talk about the realities of how any
of these, the education cuts,
fundings are coming through, we'd love to have you.
Or give us a call, 608-557-8577.
That's the mailbag, you know.
That's the mailbag there.
We would love to know we'd like to hear
because I think that is one of the ways
that we do resist and fight back as we tell our stories.
We tell our stories.
I don't know.
So Johnny, I heard, looking right here,
you got something to say, don't you?
And now it's time for our moment of Zen.
They have the guns, we have the poets.
Therefore, we will win.
Thanks everybody for busting pencils.
Love that you're joining us here on a home room.
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