This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk.
Here are your hosts, Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,
educated educators talking education.
Yes, it is Busted Pencils fully-ledded education talk,
educated educators talking education,
special guest, special classes in session.
God of those say hello to Dr. Johnny Lupinacci and Jess.
How are you, my two friends?
Doing great, Tim.
Doing great.
Excited about the special guest, I mean, timely moment
and it's always great to hear from our leaders.
And so Tim, let's jump right into it.
Yeah, I return a guest, man.
She needs a long, long introduction.
My goodness, no, the president of AFT,
returning guest, Randy Winegarden.
Randy, how are you, our friend?
I am always great when I'm on a Zoom or an interview
or just hanging with you, Tim and you, Johnny and you, Jess.
Yeah.
I love you.
I love the work you're doing because it is
not just important work, it's the work
and we're proud of you and we couldn't be happier
to have you with us here, Randy.
Thank you.
Thank you, guys.
Okay, so Randy, we are here in a moment.
You gave a great speech, we're gonna talk about this,
but, you know, how is it that we,
maybe put the question we've been asking this
to a lot of our guests?
How do you see this new moment that we're in
where we have a president elect Trump, you know,
almost going to be an installed president Trump?
He's made open declarations of wanting
to go after public education in a way
and where are we going?
What do we do?
What's Randy Wyckardt thinking about this moment
and where we're headed?
Well, that's a big question, Tim.
Yeah.
You know, let's see, let's see, do I have about,
I don't know, eight hours on the couch here?
Right.
But I would say, we have to,
we have to spend a little bit of time
understanding what happened and I do think,
and I said this in the speech that I gave
in honor of David Dinkins at Columbia,
you know, on December 5th.
I do think there's, you know,
there's the intersecting eyes,
in currency, inflation, immigration,
identity, you know, all of those things
played a role in an election
where right track, wrong track, you know,
was 75% of Americans thought we were on the wrong track,
25% thought we were on the right track
and Harris lost by a point and a half.
I mean, so let's just put all of this into perspective
in terms of what this was.
But I think that the overarching issue
I heard over and over again,
was the price of X.
And I was on a bus, basically,
from Labor Day to Election Day,
Chris crossing the country, talking to people,
not only my members, but parents and patients
and community members and labor.
And so I heard a lot.
But I also think, I mean, and look at the reaction,
nothing, nothing absolves anyone.
I mean, someone should not have been murdered
the way in which the chief executive of United Health was.
I mean, nothing absolves that criminality.
Let me just be really clear.
But look at the reaction that has happened since
about all of the horrible stories
about how United Health handles patients.
Look at what happens in terms of the price of eggs
and yet there's this, you know,
the price gouging that has happened.
And, you know, look, so I think that what you saw
is basically just like we've seen
in nine of the 10 last elections,
last federal elections where one party or another
or where the White House, the Senate
or the House of Representatives changed hands.
What you saw was people saying collectively,
this is the only agency I have to get changed.
What you didn't see, and I'm going to be really clear
about this, that the two underlining other ways
of creating empowerment in agency, one is elections,
the other is education, the third is a labor movement.
You didn't see people saying no, I don't want a labor movement
and you didn't see people saying no,
I don't want public education.
In fact, it was the opposite.
The three ballot initiatives, statewide ballot initiatives
on vouchers all failed.
And there's a story that I keep lifting up in Nebraska
where in counties where Trump 195 to five
the voucher proposal lost 60 to 40.
And the labor initiatives that were on the ballot,
they didn't lose either.
So when Trump goes and says he's against public education
or he's for vouchers, it's dissonant to where people are.
And so this makes all of us, we're going to have to work hard
as allies to fight back against the misinformation
and the disinformation and the billionaires push
to undermine and defund public education.
And they will push it.
They'll want their, sorry about the whatever,
we are in life.
That's right.
But they will push to defund public education.
They will push for vouchers.
And those of us who understand the promise of America
and understand the promise of public education
as a key ingredient to opportunity for all,
we're going to have to ally ourselves more closely
than ever before to fight back.
Well, Randy, too.
Yeah, thank you for making that point.
We did a great interview with rural Kentucky
and a person who went down there and saw that same,
you know, 74% of the voters voted against vouchers
but 80, 20 voted for Trump.
So we know there's a message there with public education.
And I, you know, I've been framing it this way,
isn't this the opportunity to create a movement
where we know people, and you say in these rural places,
maybe even pointing out,
Democrats missed out on the reality of how to use
public education as a community organizing point,
there we could be galvanized to say,
this is a movement that we can get behind.
You know, in 25 years of supporting high stakes,
testing and standards, guess what?
That's not a winning, you know, winning thing.
My neighbor doesn't care about that.
My neighbor cares as they pointed out here
in Kentucky, as you said in Nebraska,
they want their public schools
and they actually want their public schools funded.
And nobody talked about that in the election
as something to run on.
Correct.
And in fact, I did an op-ed, right?
That was hard to frankly place,
where I said there were three debates,
and not one question about education
was advanced in the three debates.
So it wasn't just the, you know, Trump and Biden
or Trump and Harris.
And I mean, look, Tim Laws is a public school teacher.
So to the extent that anybody was talking about it,
his pedigree, his identity talked to it,
but the media in none of those debates,
not any of those debates,
did the question of education arise.
So I think that the, I think that the issues about,
and I think to your point, absolutely,
absolutely, public education is an organizing principle.
It is a way, it is a bipartisan principle
in so many areas across the country.
And for the life of me, I do not understand why it was not front,
it was not on front street.
Connie.
Yeah, well, Randy, I mean, this is,
this is excellent conversation for our listeners
and listeners will link you to a speech that was,
I just thought was just right on point, extremely timely,
fighting for a better future, Randy.
In that speech, you kind of outline, you know,
some suggestions for schools,
but you remind us that this, that we can learn from history
and that in this moment that is almost like one of our other
guests called the Dickens moment.
Yes, we could see it as the worst of times,
but it also, at many, in many ways,
is the best of times for our lifetimes.
And thinking about how you remind us that support for unions
is the highest it's been since 1965, right?
And that, you know, what is it?
I think you said 90% of Americans
under the age of 30 support unions.
Yes.
And then you acknowledge the feeling of loss of agency
and the hopelessness that so many working folks
across this country and especially you not noted,
especially so many young men out there
who have voiced that and swung this election.
You're acknowledging these things and reminding us,
remember why we have unions, why we have these
and what an exciting time to have a creative
and skillful negotiator like you, Randy, you know,
helping to kind of say, hey, let's sit down
and let's figure out how to, how to strengthen things.
Let's address these real needs,
especially if we're in a populist moment.
So I just wonder, would you speak to that exciting part
of where union pray today?
So I would say, you know, and I did,
and I do throw down the cartlet, but also,
I think we have to be wise enough to know where
the bright lines are.
I mean, we want a country.
I am very proud to be an American.
I love being an American.
I am a patriotic American.
I believe in America.
And part of America is having a democracy
where you actually can speak in non-violent protest
and in non-violent ways your mind.
And so will we still have a democracy or not?
That's gonna be a big question in the next,
you know, in the next few years.
And I say this in watching an awe,
what just happened in Syria?
Yes, concerned, but watching an awe,
how quickly that dictatorship fell after 54 years.
And so, but what creates, so voice is really important.
But what the labor movement does is what a union does.
It's not just voice, it's economic power.
And it's not the authoritarian or the strong man
bequeathing it to you saying, oh, don't worry.
I'll do it for you.
It's us doing it for ourselves.
That's what concerted action means.
That's what joining together and fighting
for collective bargaining contract,
fighting for increased wages,
fighting for decent healthcare,
whether you're fighting in a policy realm at the state house
or the White House,
or whether you're fighting in terms of your boss
and wanting to have a contract that has that.
That's the difference between the strong men
and the authoritarian,
and having the agency from a union
that creates a tent to enable people
to empower themselves collectively.
And frankly, what's happening is
that we've had a 40 year fight with billionaires
on both sides,
Democrat as well as Republican,
who has actually not wanted regular folks to have that.
And you see it because of the trade agreements
that were made.
You see communities being hollowed out.
You see when wealth gets rewarded not work,
when shareholder value gets rewarded
as opposed to sustainable communities,
I can go on and on.
That's that neoliberalism,
that trickled down economics.
It didn't work.
And what has happened is that people are lonely
and they've given up
and a labor movement can help create
that kind of positive agency
and engagement just like an education can.
And that's what I was setting out.
Yeah, you laid that out.
I said, yeah, Johnny,
thanks for saying we're making sure
that that link to that speech is in our notes
so that people can go there and just, you know,
again, spend 30 minutes where you go,
wow, okay, now I get it.
Now I'm ready.
I'm ready to go.
Randy, too.
We just, you know, we have to mention a mutual friend,
Jonathan Garricko, we had him on the show.
Yes.
And Jonathan really put out, you know,
he go, you know, say like here we are,
we're, you know, in, he named the moment and say,
you know, we have what we have
and is this the potential to leverage the, you know,
the ultimate deal maker as he's labeled himself
president elect Trump and kind of said,
you know, if there's an opportunity to make a deal,
he's like, you know, the most skilled negotiator
of our times, Randy Wine Garden is the person to do it.
I wonder if you had any thoughts about John,
Jonathan's kind of putting you up to the task there.
Look, I think you have to do two things.
Number one, you can never stray from your values.
And so deal making has to happen within that context.
A deal for a deal sake is not, it is not value based.
And I think that, you know, and so within our values,
let's, I'll give you an example.
If you have take career ticket, career ticket and having pathways,
and I've talked on this show about this,
if you have pathways from high school on or junior high school on,
for kids who say, look, I may want to go to college
at one point or another, but maybe not now,
or maybe I do now, but I want to have a practical skill.
So what about not just AP courses,
but stackable credentials and apprenticeships
starting from high school?
Why are we not doing that?
Why 60% of the kids in America graduate from high school
without going to college, why not have these different pathways?
Now, I hear from the great fine that Linda McMahon believes in this too.
You know, I don't know if she's going to be secretary,
she's going to have to get through the sexual harassment
or violence or exploitation allegations that are made against her.
But if she does get through it, why not work together
on what Switzerland does?
And do it here even better.
Why not do that?
And if in that instance, we could work together
at the very same time as we'll fight against voucherizing
and defunding public schools.
So if that's what Jonathan means, of course, we'll do that.
But you know, at the end of the day,
we have to be about American opportunity for all
and we have to be about respect for all.
And that's what public education and that's what labor does.
Yeah, and it is, it's positive pencils.
Oh, good, good.
He loves you too and we could tell that.
Hey, if you want to jump in and leave a question for us in the mailbag,
608-557-857-77, that's the number.
You can drop us a message in too.
And if you have a question for Randy, we'll pass it on to her.
But Randy, you know, you laid out too
and I think from public education really pointing out
in three strategies, literacy, community schools,
and relevant or more importantly, engagement.
I just wanted to give you an opportunity
to kind of lay those out for the Busted Pencil's listener
because of there's such a connection to public education.
So, you know, part of what I was trying
to do in that, in this speech,
is not make policy so far away from people.
And to really, and there is a saying from the scriptures,
you know, my wife is a rabbi, so I got to be a little spiritual here.
But there's a saying from the scriptures
that you can't know what is expected to do everything.
But everyone has to do something.
And part of what we have to do is I think we have to do things
much more localized, it's more relevant, it's more real.
And people are more engaged that way.
So what I threw out was it's not just a defensive edge
of public education, but we got to strengthen it.
And so there are three things that I thought
that we could do at a local level.
Number one is, you know, we give out books.
There's other span books, we give out books.
We do it in community.
We've done 400 of these events in the last two years.
We've given out 10 million books in the last 10 years.
And so if you do it as a community event,
in a way that parents and kids are together,
it fosters the love of literacy and the love of reading.
And I challenge people, let's do it more.
Let's not just do 400 events in two years,
let's do 800 events in two years.
Let's philanthropy help us buy books
will buy a million, we do it, you know, from do's money.
That's about two, three million dollars.
Let others help us and we'll do more of these things
to get books into the hands of kids.
Number two, loneliness is a real thing.
Johnny said it before.
And there are two ways of dealing with loneliness
and disaffection and disconnection.
One is, let's wrap services around the school.
School sometimes are the biggest employers
in a district or in a region.
Let's wrap services around.
Let's make it the center of community.
Let's have adult education.
Let's do other types of things.
Let's meet the needs of families.
You know, so you know, we got a lot of care closets
and clothing closets and things like that.
Let's really make this figure out ways
that really wrap meet the needs of families
through community schools.
And the third is, this engagement piece, experiential learning.
Those of us who have talked for a long time,
project based learning, experiential learning,
do we set it?
I was just at the Barnes Museum, think about what art is.
Think about what football is.
Think about what career tech ed is.
We have to do more experiential learning.
And you know what that does?
It helps us do what the four things
that kids really need right now are.
Critical thinking and problem solving, resilience
and relationship building.
So let's stop with the over-testing
and let's start with really thinking
about project based and experiential learning
and career tech ed, not only is a workforce development,
it's some of the best ways to do that.
That's what I called for.
Nice.
Man, I'm going to jump in there.
Absolutely inspired, appreciate all the work
that you do, Randy, and for sharing it
with our listeners here.
And you break it down to end of your talk the other night
and you certainly touched on it here today.
A simple truth is that we all do better
when we all do better.
Your words and they resonate with me since you said them
and I'm carrying them with me
because this is an exciting moment to do that work.
Appreciate you joining us, Randy.
Thanks for everything.
Thank you.
Let me just say one more thing.
In this liminal space, I agree with you, Johnny.
It could be the worst of times,
but in this liminal space, it might be the best of times.
But we have to have, this is a race between fear and hope
and we are running on the hope side.
That's right.
And that's who we are.
That's who all three of you are.
So I just wish you a really wonderful holiday
and the best of the new year.
And let's just fight this together
and let's fight for people
and let's fight for opportunity
and let's fight for dignity for all of us.
Absolutely.
And now for your moment of zen.
And now for your moment of zen.
History can untie our minds, our bodies,
our disposition to move,
to engage life rather than contemplating it as an outsider.
It can do this by widening our view
to include the silent voices of the past
so that we look behind the silence of the present.
Oh, thanks for busting pencils with us.
And don't forget, every Friday,
we drop a free throws and face offs
tune in Saturday across all the civic media stations
to listen to busting pencils.
Don't be late for home room on Monday.
So keep busting pencils.