This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledged education talk.
Here are your hosts, Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,
educated educators talking education.
Yes, it is Busted Pencils fully-ledged education talk,
educated educators talking education,
Saturday, drop Johnny Lupinacci, how are you, my friend?
I don't do it good, man.
You know, it's middle of hockey season for us.
Well, I shouldn't say medals to think of it.
It's fall.
Yeah.
It is that time of year in classrooms around the country,
whether you're in higher ed or you're in K-12.
You know what I'm talking about?
We are counting on the days to a little break over Thanksgiving,
a little bit of a break.
You're already seeing him out of there, but yeah,
man, I need it.
That's for us teachers when we catch up and breathe.
That's for us teacher.
Veterans, it was great.
Hey, so thank you out there listeners who serve our country
or who's loved ones and folks close to them serve.
You know, we don't have democracy without our armed services.
And that's a whole set of discussion for another day,
but thank you for your service out there veterans.
And you know, it's a little bit late,
but we're not on every day where you catch our drops on Monday,
Wednesday, Friday, but we are broadcast on Saturdays.
And if it's not Saturday and you're listening to this,
because you downloaded it as a podcast.
So that's another great way to listen to.
So I'm good, Tim.
Yeah, and you know, the other thing too is,
hey, make sure you download that civic media app
because that way you can always catch all of those podcasts
every single time.
Well, Johnny, I love being back to doing the radio show,
love the podcast, love home room, love classes in session,
love, you know, first downs in Friday nights.
But again, the the energy of doing the show with you,
with the guests and everything we're doing.
I love this, Johnny, lots going on.
We have had this conversation now.
Well, ever since chat GPT broke into our world,
a little bit of AI and everybody who's been listening to the show.
No, Tim and Johnny have a little bit of a bit of a disagreement
when it comes to artificial intelligence and education.
We're going to get into a discussion with that.
But Johnny, we have an incredible guest.
He's a powerhouse in pushing education forward,
combining on the ground K-12 experience
with cutting edge digital transformation.
He's a champion for teachers and students alike,
working with Khan Academy to bring Konmigo and AI driven
educational game changer in the classrooms across the country.
He's a Michigan state PhD who knows the complex factors
that impact student success, especially for students with disabilities.
And he's using that expertise to shape
more inclusive and dynamic learning environment.
Welcome to busted pencils.
Dr. Jason Feig, how are you Jason?
Well, I could not be any better.
I could not be any better.
Thanks for having me.
How do you like that intro, man?
That was a pretty impressive interview.
But, you know, Tim, you didn't tell me there.
So was a possible disagreement right out of the gate
between you and Johnny around this conversation.
He played for that.
He plays a little bit.
Because we actually convert on some similarities.
But I like to tease him.
I say, and Tim drinks the Kool-Aid for him.
AI is a whole cultural movement.
And I think it's related.
For me, I'm always like, Tim, it's a powerful tool
that I was slow on the uptake, but like, you know,
like drum machines and all the other technologies
in my lifetime that revolutionize things I like to do.
AI is changing, not for the worst.
It's really a tool that's helping me teach better.
And it's helping me engage learners and helping me
in ways I didn't anticipate it would.
So I'm a slight convert.
I'm still digging in, though,
and I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid and saying like,
it is my new religion.
If I'm not, again, no.
Come on, it's not even my religion either.
What we talk about, we are kidding.
It's not really that like really a disagreement
as much as we just potentially see the impact.
Johnny, just so you know, is coming from, you know,
first of all, as a math educator and social studies educator
and really uses the introduction of the calculator
as a way to help people understand this moment with AI.
I've had some guests on and who are kind of like,
it's more than a calculator.
And I think that's maybe the difference.
I'm kind of, it's more than a calculator.
Johnny's like, it's definitely a calculator,
but it's a really, really powerful tool.
But Jason, so you're with the Khan Academy,
but before the Khan Academy, though,
because we've got to get the cred, you know,
because we are educated educators, talking education.
How, tell us about the journey on your way
to the Khan Academy.
Sure, yeah.
I started, my bachelor's degree at Spring Harbor University
completed, completed my work there
and then based in Michigan.
And then I started as a second grade teacher.
And I spent one year and second grade
and I had an opportunity to teach third grade was married.
And then my wife and I decided to move
from the Spring Harbor area back to our hometown
of Fallerville in Michigan, where I was, yeah,
where I was able to spend a couple years
as a third grade teacher,
all really transformative experiences, right?
Lots to learn.
And then I had an opportunity after a couple of years
and third grade, I shifted districts
to a little bit larger district in Harlem, Michigan
where I was a sixth grade science social studies teacher
and I also coached varsity basketball.
And then there was this moment,
and I think Tim, when you talk about this,
there's this moment I'm coaching basketball,
and I came to school next day
in my sixth grade classroom
and the superintendent at the time said,
hey, you know, I was watching you coach,
I think you'd be a great school administrator.
What, 27, the answer's for sure.
Yeah, I'm waiting for you to come along, you know?
Not knowing anything at all with that meant.
And so then I had an opportunity to move
from the classroom to start as an assistant principal
of a middle school for one year.
And then, yeah, one year.
And then was offered the opportunity to work
in the highest performing elementary school principal,
with a number of veteran teachers.
Right.
And that set me off in this,
it was about 10 year course where I worked
for seven superintendents and 10 years.
And what that means is that when a new superintendent arrives,
things change, opportunities present themselves.
So, so I went from a middle school assistant principal,
elementary principal, middle school principal,
high school principal, high school assistant principal.
High school principal, high school assistant principal.
And I think we talked about this.
It's one of the most humbling experiences
of your life to be a school leader for lots of reasons.
Right.
Well, all of that, too.
It's just, we had just for the listener, yes, Jason and I,
we talked before the show just to get acquainted
and we shared stories and, you know, guess what?
All great educated educators who talk education, Johnny.
Well, yeah, we have our start as teachers,
but Johnny, here's a deal.
Jason, second grade teacher,
just like Tim, second grade teacher.
And guess how long Jason and Tim list lasted
teaching second grade one year.
That was it.
But so all the Michigan talk, too,
you're talking about that, Jason,
just so Johnny, you see Johnny put in the notes here.
I'm so excited because I'm a big fan of teachers
from the mid and myself.
All right, all right, no idea.
All the love to all the great places
that Jason referenced and the amazing teachers
and folks out there.
Well, we've seen a lot, Jason, over that span,
you know, like that region is a canary in the coal mine
for so many of the things happening nationally right now.
And so, you know, this is exciting to have this conversation
because some of our backgrounds are similar.
We overlap and I really champion that as much as I can.
It's a unique opportunity that like Jason and myself
we came into by location.
There was some very interesting shifts
and politics and changes in school structures
and some hurdles that many states right now
are just coming up against.
And Michigan folks have been through, you know,
the ringer honor.
And so I was constant listeners, they can relate.
But yeah, Jason, love it, man.
Well, so Jason, so all of the cred there
working in education, you know,
then Michigan State, PhD,
the question though is to the Khan Academy.
How do you get to the Khan Academy?
And, you know, then of course we're gonna say
and for anybody who's listening
who doesn't know what the Khan Academy is,
we're also gonna have Jason break that down
for us a little bit, but Jason, yeah.
All of that experience classroom teacher,
classroom leader, school leader,
different superintendents.
How do you end up with the Khan Academy?
So yeah, there was this moment
was working in a high school that I began
to really start to consider what I wanted to do
and to be quite honest, I was burned out for lots of reasons.
And I picked up the phone.
I started making several phone calls to friends and family.
Anybody had work with just looking at some other opportunities.
And a former superintendent that I had worked with
was currently working at College Board,
working on the SAT contract in Michigan.
And an opportunity presented itself.
So for a few years, I worked with Ted Gardella
to help implement the SAT contract.
So I met with a lot of schools.
And then that opportunity led to work in the state of Indiana
where I was able to help implement the SAT contract.
And then during that journey at College Board,
I started to reach out to Khan Academy
because College Board and Khan Academy
have a partnership for SAT practice.
And just started reaching out asking about this thing
called official SAT practice, built some relationships.
And then just out of really nowhere,
I received a phone call from Khan Academy
about an opportunity.
It was the only time that I paused
in terms of changing roles
because I had three in college.
And there was a lot to really think about.
And then a week later or two weeks later,
through some conversation,
it offered me an opportunity to join Khan Academy team.
Wow, think of that.
All that moving in there.
Yeah, you know, the burned out,
we've all felt that too in the classrooms
so many times.
But then, so Jason, with the Khan Academy,
I know everybody's listening to,
what about the AI you guys started with?
We're gonna get there.
We're gonna get there.
Everybody chill out with the Khan Academy.
Just briefly, we've got two minutes before the break.
What is the Khan Academy?
What's the Khan Academy?
Yeah, Khan Academy's mission
is to provide a world-class education for anyone anywhere.
If you've had a chance to hear
Sal Khan talk at all about his story
and how sort of the what gave birth to Khan Academy,
it was exchanged with the cousin
and doing some tutoring across the country.
A lot of in-between story there,
but essentially it led to development
of Khan Academy full-length mastery
and able set of courses that now over 50 million,
we have over 50 million users across the globe.
Wow, holy crap.
Our guest, Dr. Jason Feig,
he is with the Khan Academy,
talking about, though,
what we're really gonna be going into,
Khan Migo,
which is the Khan Academy's use
of artificial intelligence.
It's busted pencils.
It's fully-ledged education talk.
We are educated educators.
We're talking education.
Again, our guest is Dr. Jason Feig, Khan Academy,
Khan Migo, artificial intelligence.
Oh, yeah, we're putting it all together.
And, Johnny, I'm telling you, man,
it's more than a tool.
Let's see you when we get back.
We're growing, we're all over you.
We so see us through,
our days are precious and so few.
We're all, we're moving out of town.
Under this sky, no longer blue.
We're bringing down another hill.
We're growing, we're growing,
we're growing, we're growing.
Oh, yeah.
Oh.
Well, people will try to put us
just because we're in farmers on the board.
They're bringing us some great news.
It gets busted pencils.
It's fully-ledged education talk.
Educated educators, talking education.
Our guest, Dr. Jason Feig,
is with the Khan Academy.
But, you know, started off second grade teacher,
assistant principal, building principal,
all this kind of educated educator there.
That's what we bring on this show all the time.
But with the Khan Academy,
got a brief little intro on the Khan Academy, Jason.
And, yeah, you know, if you're in K-12,
I know people are saying, like, Tim,
we already know about the Khan Academy.
We use it, my cousin used it, you know, my goodness.
I always think about the Khan Academy, too,
of gone like, well, I wish there was something like that
when I was failing calculus.
Because, you know, there was no hope for me.
Put me back in remedial algebra.
And yeah, I got by with the C,
but I would have liked to have had the Khan Academy.
But we're really digging in now, too, though,
with artificial intelligence.
And Khan Academy has released, and Jason,
maybe you can just help us, though,
what's called Khan Amigo?
And what is Khan Amigo?
And how does artificial intelligence come into play?
Tell us what that's all about.
Yeah, so the high level Khan Amigo
is an AI tutor for students
that lays over the top of the Khan Academy content
and an assistant for teachers
that provides teachers the opportunity
to engage with AI in a variety of ways.
I typically talk about the teacher side of it
as typical teacher movements, you know,
the lesson plans, lesson hooks, assessments.
And so again, frame that more along the lines
of typical teacher movements
to support and save time.
And so this is ed tech.
But first of all, for somebody
or teachers out there going,
oh, my goodness, not another ed tech tool.
All right, Jason.
So talk to me.
I'm a teacher out there going, wait a minute.
This is ed tech.
This artificial intelligence.
Are you trying to replace me?
Oh, it's such a great question.
I'm so glad you asked that.
So this is so, you know, I feel really fortunate.
I get to work with 12 different states,
a ton of educators across the Midwest.
And this conversation that's recently emerged around AI
always take a step back first and foremost.
Anytime I'm talking to the school or any educators,
high quality instruction, the human element still matters
and will always matter most.
That human connection, ability, and no students
is the most critical part of the story.
And so again, having the opportunity
to engage with the number of states, number of educators,
always bring it back to start there.
And then the second part of the conversation
when we talked about Khan Academy and the emergence of AI
is really our platform prior to Khan Migo and AI
was built as a core supplement for educators
and as a resource for students anytime, anywhere,
built on mastery-based learning,
students learning at their own rate.
And then this transition from Khan Academy's
traditional platform, which operates exactly the same way,
I like to tell a brief story about this transition window.
When South came to us and said, hey, listen, GPT-4
looks like we have an opportunity to build AI tool
to be a really quality tutor, teacher assistant.
I'll never forget that day because I was at home on the couch,
had access to Khan Migo for the first time
and was just playing around a bit.
And actually in an algebra one class,
a lot of fun members of algebra one back in the day.
And I physically stood up off the couch.
And the reason I stood up off the couch
is it began the ability for students to access
one to one tutor anytime and teachers to save time.
I was thinking about all these use cases
as a school teacher and an administrator.
Not only teachers with the number of students
that they have and all the tasks that they have,
but also from a student perspective,
I was thinking about that student in the back
of the room that wouldn't engage.
That student that maybe is on the bus
and is involved in three or four extra curricular activities.
The family that does not have that may not have the means
to provide one to one tutoring.
And I physically stood up
because I was thinking of all of these scenarios.
And I'm not here to suggest that this is the cure all.
And anyway, but what the reason I stood up
and now in the last couple of years
have been fully sort of immersed in the story
is that it does potentially solve
for some really big challenges.
One to one tutoring.
We know that historically been a great challenge
for lots of reasons.
We know that one to one tutoring makes a difference.
We know that teachers are inundated, right?
I'm always a third grade teacher.
And I think about what her six to eight PM on Sunday night
is, you know, it's just all this planning preparation.
And if this can help save time,
that's a big win for educators and students.
Right.
So you're talking to two different use cases there, too.
The teacher from the workload there, too.
But then the students one to one tutoring.
Really, you know, kind of laying in on that.
Johnny Lupinachi, though, you got some thoughts there.
I'm sure my friend.
Well, I do and I'm just excited to hear this
because, you know, this resonates with me, too.
I'm a love here in what Jason Sharon,
not only is it a tool for teachers,
it's a tool best educational technologies
are in the hands of learners, right?
And, you know, and at disposal of educators,
great educators know what their students need.
And it's just sometimes we can't clone ourselves
into 12 people in the classroom to be in these small groups,
to be one-on-one, to give students repetition
and to give them multiple means of accessing information
that we are facilitating and helping bring to the classroom.
So it's a win-win.
That's an educational technology
that myself as an educator, I'm like,
that's something I got to try.
And so I've been trying AI tools in the classroom
because it is, when you used like Jason said,
not as a replacement to having a great teacher,
but as a value added to a learning space
where so many different learners can be awake and alive.
That's the goal all those teachers have.
It's like that rush we chase is that moment
when our students are awake and alive
and they're learning the aesthetic of being in a classroom
that's engaging.
And I've found AI to be a tool of engagement
when you use directs.
I love hearing this and I know listeners,
you're probably like, man, what's my experience with AI?
I've got some thoughts about it.
If you do, you could call us at 608-557-8577.
And leave your comment in our Busted Pencils mail bag.
And you know, we'll get to it because I doubt
that this is the last time we have Jason on.
Our guy here is talking, he's dropping knowledge
that both Tim and I are vibing with.
Not before.
Usually Tim and I are beefing,
but he's a unifier.
Speaking both far left.
He's bringing us back together, yeah, our guest.
He's bringing us back together, yeah.
Our guest, Dr. Jason Feig, he's with the Khan Academy.
He's talking everything though now, artificial intelligence.
On me go.
Yeah, from the Khan Academy is the Khan Academy's artificial intelligence.
Jason coming up on another break,
but I was thinking about this question.
Maybe we could put this out there and you can think about this during the break.
Somebody's saying, well, Khan Academy, Khan Meego,
what's the difference?
I mean, what's Khan Amigo do that's different
than the Khan Academy?
Yeah, I've used Khan Academy.
My nephews, we use it with them.
I've seen this, you know, teachers.
Why does somebody make the transition
or is Khan Meego connected to Khan Academy?
I just want so listeners can understand the difference
because Khan Academy was, as you said,
was going on working, you know, South put it together,
long as time working out there to really just help kind of provide that support.
But Khan Meego really changes so many of the things.
And I know some of you guys are going,
well, what's the difference between Khan Meego and chat GPT and Gemini
and all of those interesting tools?
And we've got lots of questions.
Our guest, Dr. Jason Feig, Khan Academy.
It's busted pencils, fully-ledded education sock.
Yeah, hold on, ma'am, because we got a lot more room.
We'll be right back.
Yeah, Johnny, see, this is the part I miss, man.
I love being back doing the hour show.
It's busted pencils.
It's fully-ledded education sock,
educated educators talking education.
Yes.
And I will make that claim again.
Yeah, we know we have the best bumper music out there for anybody listening.
It's busted pencils, man, bringing it all to you.
Our guest, Dr. Jason Feig, Khan Academy,
talking Khan Academy, Artificial Intelligence, Khan Meego.
Jason, during the break, you kind of set this up.
What, like Khan Academy, Khan Meego, Artificial Intelligence,
makes sense of it so that I understand the difference,
or maybe there's not.
Yeah.
So what do you think, Khan Academy?
We talked earlier about this, but historically.
From the beginning, Khan Academy provides a series of courses,
full-length master enabled courses, everything from a series of math courses,
the middle of high school science, to practicing for the SAT.
So those courses are completely free.
They're available to students and educators.
And again, over 50 million users worldwide,
access the Khan Academy platform.
Where Khan Meego comes into play is,
Khan Meego is an AI tool that lays on top of that content.
So when a student is engaging with one of the courses,
Khan Meego is directly connected to each course,
and students have the ability to work through a course with a 101 tutor.
The key thing about Khan Meego, when we built this out,
was we paid attention to guardrails.
So we didn't want Khan Meego to just provide an answer to students.
So Khan Meego's response to students is to post questions back,
just like a great one to one tutor or a great teacher would.
So we have a series of guardrails built in,
so that the chats are logged and viewable,
so the teacher can view the seat into that conversation.
And because academic integrity is something that comes up
with every educator I talk to, when you talk about AI,
about Khan's students' cheat.
So we built Khan Meego to lay on top of this content
to ensure that it engaged in a way similar to an educator or a tutor.
Now on the teacher side, the teacher of Sida Khan Meego
is a series of opportunities for a teacher to engage
and again, from building lesson plans to lesson hooks
to make sense of the data in their class.
And so the concept behind the teacher side of is,
how can we help teachers be more efficient
to get at that relational human engagement.
And so the Khan Meego teacher side has a whole list of opportunities
for teachers to engage in a variety of different ways
so that they can be more efficient.
Okay, so I have a question too,
because I know a few teachers I've been working with doing some,
you know, workshops with artificial intelligence,
not with Khan Academy.
I think a couple of the teachers I would work with,
that I've done some professional development for,
or might say, and I'm just going to use,
so Jason, we've been using magic school bus in our school.
What's the difference between magic school bus and Khan Meego?
Yeah, what sets Khan Academy and Khan Meego apart
is that we have an AI tool that lays on top of content.
And it's, I often will describe that when we talk to schools
as this is not an AI tool that's floating out there, right?
It's directly connected to content.
And so students engaging in a course, Khan Meego is there
that lays over the top of that, and students can engage
within a particular course with a one-to-one tutor
on all the content that we have to offer.
Okay, so that's the kind of the difference.
I said magic school bus and magic school, AI magic school.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
I'm going back to my second grade days there in fifth grade
and you know, Ms. Frizzle, the magic school bus,
I was there with you.
Okay, we know we're talking about Johnny Lupinacci, though.
Okay, Johnny Khan Meego,
you've been talking about using artificial intelligence.
My guess is you're kind of like me.
You're using like chat GPT, Gemini,
the AI tools, not specifically like a Khan Meego.
Well, Tim, actually, you know, it's kind of all on the above.
Like anytime I'm bringing, anytime I'm doing my own learning
and I can bring it into the classroom, it's just a win-win.
And so, you know, doing some of the workshops
and some of the lab classes, the flash courses
that AQ offers, that's A-C-U-E,
around artificial intelligence in the classroom.
And that's mostly for higher ed,
but it's helped me see a value of taking time each semester
to sit down with future teachers.
I teach future teachers,
and I also work with elementary schools and high schools
and teachers in those schools,
but teaching future teachers,
who for the most part, you know, 19, 20,
21 years old in class, preparing to be teachers,
AI is something they're already somewhat familiar with,
as learners.
Some of their teachers have utilized it
in their high school and middle school learning.
This stuff moves quick, right?
But I like to give a background.
Like here's a little context of what constitutes something is AI.
You know, we have different versions and variations.
We have like spell check, auto complete.
We have text assistance in our phones.
We have all these different things.
You know, you've noticed how amazing Google's gotten
in the last, you know, five, ten years
with completing the search for you and knowing what you want.
And then when you're on your social media,
somehow it knows that I'm shopping for dustbusters.
There is a lot of intelligence going into the technology
that is in our hands,
and as a result, also in our work spaces,
which are learning spaces for so many children.
So we give a background on the different types.
And we start talking about how we use AI in our day-to-day lives
as part of our profession.
And so that we give a breakdown.
Here are some of the tools that they're experiencing out
in the schools that teachers are using at districts
are encouraging some of the conversations,
the debates in the dilemmas,
and all of those things.
And so yeah, I mostly use, you know, a form of AI
that is like a chatbot.
You know, it's learning as I use it more
and it's all that kind of stuff.
But that's my own personal professional use of it.
In class, I would say there's groups,
categories of types of AI that students are introduced to you,
exploring, and looking at,
I approach it much like I do any educational technology.
How is it increasing the engagement of your students
and specifically for me,
universally designed learning framework?
Like how are you providing multiple means of access
for diverse learners?
So they can ask questions and repetition
without necessarily being shy or wanting to worry
about interrupting you or waiting turns.
And there's a lot of value to a great teacher in a classroom.
And then a great teacher in a classroom is what I tell students.
Also have these amazing tools that they bring to them
with their toolbox and that they share with students.
The best teachers are sharing educational tools with students.
So they're hands-on engaged with the learning.
And I've seen some real powerful moments with AI.
Just in the last few semesters, it's like mind-blowing.
Right.
You know, that's a little bit of my conversion story as it's happening.
Okay.
You know, but again, reminiscent of back in the day
when they said math teachers don't use the graphing calculator.
I guess students are not in their math.
And we were like, hey, actually,
if we change the kinds of problems and ways we're asking
our students to engage,
this is a really powerful learning moment.
And this actually is enhancing our math learning.
Right.
And this is certainly, I think,
like the boundaries pushed way out with these tools
than just the calculator.
So I mean, it's an exciting moment to be a teacher.
It's an even more exciting moment to be a learner.
Because I think this is reaching so many of the things many of us
didn't necessarily have words to explain why school wasn't working.
So great for us.
Jason, yeah, in fact, you know, Johnny with that
and I'll kind of put this because, I mean, you have about your PhD
is more around special education.
And in fact, I think I was listening to you on another podcast
and you really talking about, you know,
imagining the possibilities of meeting students
with special learning needs in AI.
I wonder, you know, if you can jump in there and talk just a little bit about that.
Yeah, I think, you know, whether it's a, you know,
a student with a disability or not in a classroom,
you have a diverse set of learners and every teacher faces this every,
you know, every day in the classroom.
And I think the emergence of AI and Johnny is touching on this.
It's almost a whole other conversation.
Right.
The emergence of this technology while AI has been around for a long time.
Right.
You really can go back at least in this conversation to November of 22, right?
Right.
Where GPT can put right.
And then all of a sudden, here we are just inundated with conversation about AI
and technologies and startups.
And so there's an entirely new moment where a period of sense making, right?
What is this?
It's a technology enters a classroom.
And now when you talk about students, I think, again,
whether it's a, you know, a student with a disability,
a student that maybe just generally isn't engaged,
you know, a reference sitting in the back of the classroom,
I think it does provide an interesting opportunity as we move forward,
as we all sort of make sense of this,
where students can age in more personalized learning than ever before,
because it provides teachers an opportunity also to be able to do some things
with the use of AI to be able to better manage,
to be able to better either articulate or open up various opportunities
to a broader range of students in the classroom.
I think about it, yeah, from this standpoint, myself
is when I think about different students and different learning styles.
And you say, one of the challenges of being a teacher,
I think it's like my first year teaching second grade, 29 to 31,
little seven to eight year olds in front of me, you know,
and quote, you're supposed to teach them all in their own learning style.
And you're like, man, I don't think I can really do that.
I really want to, as we start to know,
I start to see artificial intelligence this concept of, you know what,
I need this lesson plan from the point of view of learners with,
with, you know, a hearing type of an impairment.
I have students who are visually much more engaged.
I have students, I can feed all of those student individual learning variables
into the artificial intelligence to create lesson plans,
lesson scripts and things like that,
that allow me to really start to do some of that individualized work
with those students and really reach them.
And I see that as that's this kind of moment,
whether it's conmigo, any of those things.
But AI is really giving us this chance now to say,
we do see you in that back of the room,
not really getting it.
Hey, check it out.
Come over here.
Let's look at this.
Let's talk about this because I have a feeling now,
we might be able to help you get what it is that you're not engaging with,
whether it's that disconnected student,
whether it's just truly a student having itself time.
You know, think about English language learners and how we talk about this
and the way that this can do.
So I'm more now on just the general artificial intelligence outside of conmigo
and just because this is where, and I don't want to say joining our different,
but I see this as a cultural transformation tool,
more than just a learning tool.
What do you think on that?
Yeah, you know, Tim.
Well, you touched on something at the beginning about, you know,
the ability to teach every student, every learning style, every single day.
And as educators, we'd say, yeah, absolutely, that's our role.
Yeah, we can pull that off.
You know, you don't run into educators, you know, that's a, that's what we're called it.
But it is interesting what the potential is and the realities that teachers face
on a day-to-day basis with this technology because you,
you were framing up as just sort of one bucket of resources,
whether it's conmigo or some of the other resources around lesson planning.
And thinking through, I have a group of students,
I can be now more efficient with data than ever.
And now I have the ability to personalize in a much more efficient way.
It goes back to where we started, I think in the first segment,
we were talking about from the kind of academy standpoint.
If we can help teachers be more efficient and say some time
and get, and engage students in a deeper way,
that's a win, not just for kind of academy,
but education broadly across the globe.
Man, what a great conversation.
Our guest, Dr. Jason Feig, Jason, though, check this out.
Man, we're already at the end.
So Khan Academy, Jason Feig, people want to find you.
We already gave them our phone number,
but this is your opportunity, man.
Tell us where they can go get you.
Yeah, so I can be found Jason FIG, Jason Feig at Khan Academy.org.
Or educators can simply go to Khan Academy.org,
and you can find a landing page where you can connect with our team.
I specifically engage with districts
as first point of contact across the country,
or excuse me, across the Midwest,
schools that are interested in partnering with us,
and exploring Kamego in a much more deeply way.
I'd also say we're super excited.
We have a partnership with Microsoft
that if a teacher currently goes to Khan Academy.org,
and they want to utilize the class, the courses with students,
all those Kamego teacher tools are on their main dashboard
on the right hand side, and they can access those,
the tools we talked about today.
Man, Dr. Jason Feig, yeah, Khan Academy, Jason.
Thank you so much for busting pencils.
Thank you guys, I really appreciate it.
Sir, thank you.
Hey, came back, Johnny and Tim, breaking it down when we get back.
We're going to ride some more.
There it is, plus ten pencils,
fully-ledded education top.
Educated educators talking education.
Man, love and doing the full hour with you, Johnny Lupinachi.
Great guest.
We just had, Dr. Jason Feig from the Khan Academy,
talking about though very specifically Kamego,
which is the artificial intelligence part of the Khan Academy.
And so, Johnny, you heard Jason talking about so Khan Academy,
you know, producer Aaron was familiar with.
In fact, producer Aaron, give us a little shout out there.
What do you remember about Khan Academy?
Yeah, I don't remember if it was in,
I think it was in either middle school or high school
when I was Googling a particular calculus thing
or so it must have been high school.
Anyway, I was Googling a particular math concept
and trying to figure it out and I saw Khan Academy
and I looked and found just this YouTube channel
that was a whole treasure trove of really helpful videos
that it was basically like a digital blackboard
that they would draw on and then circle stuff
and point things out.
It was so useful.
Nice.
Yeah, and in producer Jess too,
it really talked about this.
And so I really, you know, my time of teaching and learning,
yeah, guess what?
You know, sorry, we had cliff notes, man.
That was my artificial intelligence for reading.
And when it came to math with the best thing I could do
is meet with Mr. Sable down the street
who would sometimes sit with me for hours at a time
trying to help me learn my algebra
would have liked to have had Khan Academy.
But then the artificial intelligence, Khan Mego.
And, Johnny, you hear Jason talking about this kind of two uses.
There's the one to one tutoring that students can have access to
when they're taking some of the Khan Academy classes.
And then though the teachers that are using this too,
there's the Khan Mego tool as kind of like that assistant,
a teaching assistant where it does less than planning.
It helps them.
And we didn't even really get into this where Jason says
it can help you look at the data that you're looking at to make decisions.
So full package.
But artificial intelligence, Johnny Lupinacci,
are you still with the tool?
Or do you see it as a cultural movement?
It's a tool, man.
It's like any good tool.
It's shaping and it's interfacing with culture
because culture is dynamic.
So it's going to change culture.
But I just cringe a little bit
and also throw caution to the difference between
and Jason brought this up.
To me, defining what a tool is at the disposal and use
and enhancement of human experiences.
And so I remember a talk given back in the early night,
maybe mid to late 90s.
And we were talking about evolution,
biologic biology.
So some like evolutionary biologists were talking about
the next stage of human evolution.
And I'm going to have to look this up.
So hold me to this Tim because I don't want to get,
I draw these blanks sometimes.
And I can, I want to say,
I don't think it was E.O. Wilson.
But it might have been, but you know, they had said
something along the lines that the next stage of human evolution
was artificial intelligence.
And fundamentally like we aren't machines.
Even in the advent of like cyborg idea,
like how we're interfaced with machines in a way
that changes our human experience.
I think that's very real and we're on the precipice
if not already in that, right?
So late 90s, we were hearing that that's the future.
We're in that moment right now.
The future is now, right?
I'm understanding a little bit more of that.
I just throw caution to that idea that, you know,
we really remember to keep separate that we are not machines.
So much of our human identity, especially in Western culture,
has been shaped and influenced by this idea
that we're, you know, atomized that we are, you know,
machine parts.
So similar to my car, like if I need something new,
just get something new on there.
And that's not entirely untrue,
except for root metaphor level.
If my understanding of self is that I'm a machine,
then I will work like a machine.
And I will function like a machine.
And I know our educators amplified friends.
Tim and John, and you're not machines, right?
You're human.
You have a reason and a motion and a balance between those things,
which when I referenced Western culture,
I really, you know, want to say like not to homogenize
all Eastern cultures opposite,
but diverse epistemologies, diverse ways of knowing
why we're here and who we are around the world,
have maintained a strong balance between, right?
We are human and that there are technologies.
There are different, like we're reason and a motion,
not, not just reason and machine.
And so Western culture has fallen into a deep trap
of technology will save us.
We are technology.
It's blurred those lines and ways that has allowed us
to do some really destructive things to ourselves
and to one another.
They've been the rationalization and justification
for so much exploitation and atrocity around the world.
War, learning, all these different things.
So I just throw caution to it saying,
it's influencing culture, but it isn't culture.
It's not culture.
Tim and I say, I like to tease you because Tim's a Marxist, folks.
Tim doesn't like religions, but his new religion is AI.
Oh, Johnny lived in AI bots.
You know, and I'm teasing him now, folks.
But that's a little bit about it.
I got into the, into the depths, into the weeds of it.
Yeah, you did.
But I do.
It's so powerful to him.
And I'm so excited that you pushed me to learn what is this?
And I think that's the truth in the moment for all great educators.
And I'm an aspiring great educator, right?
That's the goal I have is to be learning,
to be the best educator I can be for the students that I teach.
And so, you know, as part of that,
learning how AI can make me a better teacher,
but that I can also hold it to some boundaries.
But that doesn't replace the human experience.
You know, it is to me incapable of, you know, a motion,
although some of the AI folks,
some of the folks in your church, Tim.
Dude, I'm telling you, we got a lot because you can be loved by your AI machine.
And I said, whoa, hold on there.
I think I heard that in a Frank Zappa album a long time ago.
Oh, it's busted pencils.
It was fully let it education talk.
It's typically, yeah, a moment of sin.
Just going to read it.
What most of us must be involved in has to not only make people feel good and inspired.
And at one with other people around them,
but also has to educate a new generation to do this very modest thing.
Change the world.
Ah, check it out.
Make sure you're with us on Monday, Wednesday, Friday,
all those busted pencils drops.
Fully let it education talk.
Thanks everybody for busting pencils.
You