This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk.
Here are your hosts, Dr. Tim Slecker, and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,
educated educators talking education.
There it is. Welcome to Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk,
educated educators talking education.
Man, loving this, being back in the studio,
Johnny Lupinacci, Jess, how are you two doing tonight?
Doing great, Tim. It's awesome to be, you know,
chopping it up with you and with Jess.
And, you know, I'm not going to spoil it, man.
We got some guests with us today that are extra special.
Yeah, we love it.
We'll get into it listeners, but we got educators amplified here with us.
And so it's not just your typical Tim and Johnny and Jess, it's the full crew,
the education media empire OGs.
There it is. Some of my heroes, my favorite podcasters,
but we got teacher Halle and teacher Joanna.
Educator is amplified in the house with us.
Ooh, this is going to be fun.
It's been, I said, I can't wait to have this conversation.
Well, you know what, teacher Halle, teacher Joanna,
how are the educators amplified team?
How are you guys doing?
Teacher Halle.
We're both like, Joanne.
I'm doing really well.
I'm feeling good.
And yeah, I feel good.
I don't really know what else to say.
All right, teacher Joanna, you're up.
Yeah, I would say I am generally good as well.
Yeah, lots of kind of like changes and updates in my personal life in terms of.
I'm newly an empty nester.
Um, and, you know, thoughts around that.
But oh my gosh, in general, pretty, pretty good.
Well, it's, it's so great to have all of us back together.
We said, you know, we had gotten so used to having you guys every Wednesday night.
When, when the show was truly dropping as, you know,
all, all those live shows.
And so the idea to have educators,
amplified back in the house with us to be talking about just all of the things we did.
You know, teacher Halle, teacher Joanna.
Johnny, all of this work we're doing in public education, the support of democracy.
But putting it out there right now.
So we haven't had you guys in probably like what two months now.
So what are educators amplified up to teacher Joanna?
You go first at this point from the educators amplified standpoint.
What are you to up to?
What's coming?
What should we be looking for?
Well, in terms of educators amplified, Halle and I still do a lot of kind of planning.
Exactly what we want to do next.
I'd say our focus has really been on ourselves and some on the ground work.
We're constantly in conversation with one another about what is it that teachers need?
And want to hear about and want to be a part of.
And honestly, I mean, I can get into that that teachers are really just chronically fatigued and chronically stressed.
And so even when we think about our content and our mission.
We're just being really, really attentive and careful.
To plan something, you know, we're kind of in this hiatus a bit mold.
So while you guys have been on a little break, I would say we have been in terms of producing things.
But we've actually been really connected, Halle, right?
In terms of developing the next stream, the next roadmap.
Yeah, I think two with educators amplified, you know, the biggest thing is obviously finding ways.
For teachers voice and expertise and professionalism to be shared and amplified.
And it's just it continues to amaze me.
How much teachers are not involved in your child education or really what is taught in schools like their professionalism has been really stripped away.
And so it's interesting where Joanna and I are happy to amplify those voices.
At the same time, you know, we spend a lot of our time to just like trying to help bring hope and inspire and empower or just like help teachers be like.
Like bring them back up to like you are the expert because the system has, I guess, beaten them down so much to believe that they're not.
And so it's kind of this push pull of like, hey, do you want to go on a podcast and talk about what's going on when their system is telling them they're not the expert and that they are exhausted from new curriculums or whatever outside extreme group is telling them what to do.
And so it is, you know, like it's incredibly like our mission has stayed the same.
We know like teachers is the answer to helping revive helping refresh our education system.
But right now they're hurting.
And so we're doing what we can outside of the mic to help support them.
I love that so much for our listeners educators amplified just an awesome podcast and so much more centering and lifting up teacher voice.
Right, like you're saying that expertise that lived experience raw from the classroom from the experiences that teachers are having and being unapologetically truthful.
It's no cap. It's what a teacher is feeling. How are they expressing what's going on in the classrooms because like we chop it up.
We're educated educators talking education lots of policy, lots of discussions around referendums and all of those things.
And of course, callers, you listeners, if you want to call in and leave us a little message or shout out to educators amplified or ask a question.
You can do so six zero eight five five seven eight five seven seven that's six zero eight five five seven eight five seven seven seven.
And we'll get to your call. We'll take that message and we'll address it in future shows because that's what we're about as much as we can be.
But I want to come back to this teacher how you talked about mission.
And I know we've picked up some new listeners recently in our like reboot with the podcast and we're still getting non civic media and there's still lots of live engagement.
But one of the things dawned on me, I was really listening to some at amplified podcast in this week came up in my feed, reinspired as I always I'm inspired by your work.
But I wanted to refresh with the listeners, talk to us a little bit about that awesome mission that you both have. What is educators amplified, you know, what's the purpose you have you've already touched on a little bit.
But for our listeners who are new and they're like, hey, who are these teacher, Ali and teacher Joanna folks that Johnny and Tim are so excited about.
Tell us what's that mission and introduce us or reintroduce us to educators amplified.
Yeah, so educators amplified, I would say simply is just really, how do I say it to people shoot like I'll just say like it's a labor of love.
As far as like we are really here to help bring hope, bring a space of understanding and help transform our public school systems into a space that honors and respects teachers and then therefore meet the needs of children inappropriate and developmentally appropriate ways.
And so we just know as educators ourselves like what the educator experience is like and oftentimes people think they understand what it's like to be a teacher or they think they understand what school should be or what should be taught.
But I'm sorry to say you really don't know unless you're an expert go on Joanna.
Well, and we give teachers ourselves being two of them, but then our guests as well, the space to speak for themselves because our experiences every like when you're saying, Ali, you know, people think they understand, I also hear that as and people speak for us all over the place.
They're like, this is what teachers need and this is what teachers want and teachers this and teachers that and we for years were standing there being like, uh, no, oh, no, no.
And because we had such a partnership in being teaching partners for over a decade, we just, I think empowered one another to be like, no, we're going to speak this truth.
You're going to kind of share how things really are.
But it really was at a frustration of like every, you know, like school board meeting and newspaper article that you will rarely hear the direct unfiltered voice of a teacher.
We invited to speak, but it is with a clear understanding that you're there to support somebody else's idea or talk about some initiative in a scripted dictated way.
Educators amplified is a space for teachers themselves, one of our catchphrases is we see you, we hear you, we are you.
It's a space for educators themselves to feel seen and understood, but also, you know, we highlight educators to to share their stories and you will just hear.
I'm so in love with teachers, I always tell Hallie that when I'm like, oh my god, when I can't handle what's going on policy wise, I'm like, good thing that I always believe in teachers.
I always believe in teachers and their professionalism and their ability to do what needs to be done despite.
Yeah, educators amplified is a space to hear the direct voice and direct experience of teachers.
Oh, love it.
Yeah, teacher Hallie and teacher, truly educators amplified amplifying that teacher voice, loving that too.
You know, and so glad to have you back to remind us of that.
Hallie, I was thinking of this when you were saying it's just like, you know, teachers, what do you think is never a question that a principal is superintendent, a journalist, a podcaster, anybody ever says, hey teachers, what do you think?
It's like you said, you just reminded me of this is going teachers here.
Here's what we've done for you. Here's what we've done to you. Here's what we're going to do about you, but the question of, what do you guys think?
It's just not part of what we do. And so that's what's so happy, which makes me so happy about having you guys back on the show is is that we get to amplify that voice for the teachers that are out there listening right now.
We're sitting there going, well, wait, we have a voice. We want to remind you, yes, you absolutely have a voice.
It may have gotten lost. It may have gotten suppressed. It may have gotten thrown out in these years, but we need it to come back.
You know, in fact, I'm going to say, you know, Johnny, give us your teacher voice, 608557 8577.
That's the busted pencils mail bag. We will amplify those voices for educators amplify because they're just are not enough teacher voice.
And again, to really be heard about what is truly at essence and what's at stake. What's going on in the classroom teacher appreciation day.
Come on. That's a bunch of nonsense teacher appreciation day is every day. You know the first appreciation we can offer to teachers.
We could ask them what do they think it's busted pencils fully let it education talk.
We grow, we grow, we're all over you. We so cease to see us through our days are precious and so few. We know, we probably have a deal.
But until this sky, no longer blue, we bring up to another level until we grow, we grow, we grow, we grow, we grow, we are all over you.
Oh.
Oh, I love it. What are we doing it for? That's right. We're doing it for the cause. We'll know if that's there. I love it. I love it.
And that's what we're here for educators amplified and busted pencils back in the saddle reuniting. We never really separated. I mean, we were next and all the time.
We are chopping it up and chatting about all of things happening in our worlds. And speaking of all those things happening in our world. So lucky to have teacher Halle and teacher Joanna with us here at busted pencils.
We've created educators talking education back to our worlds and educators amplified mission. I love it elevating and centering teacher voice teacher expertise and the lived experience and the expertise that teachers have.
You educators here teacher Halle teacher Joanna. It's that time of year. It's a big, big push. It's election week. Right. Big election, big things. Lots of high energy, lots of emotions, big emotions. And I know both of you are big on regulation.
I was going to bring that up. These big moments. So I'm excited as a student. I learn every time I listen to you both. I appreciate you, but I'm curious.
Here we are. It's a big election coming up teacher Halle teacher Joanna. What are you all thinking and feeling and doing right now in the midst and in response to this massive moment we're in.
Well, not only is it a big election, but we live in a swing state. So it is a 24 seven election. Okay.
It's like a couple of weeks ago, like earlier in the month, I was in Montana. And I was like, oh, my God, there's like no political science here. Like there's like this void. And I was and then you get back here. And so one thing is truly us living in a swing state makes a difference.
It is, it is, it's everywhere. It's on every commercial on every billboard, the amount of mail, the amount of mailers, the amounts of texts, everything.
So there really is a lot coming at us and it has been for a long time.
So there's, you know, there's election anxiety, there's election fatigue. And so I can, you know, I'm sharing that part of it.
But then also what I think and this is where Halle and I also stay in communication about, you know, like anything else with anxiety, you got to get out of your head and into your body.
You know, you've got to like take action of some sort. So for myself, every time that I'm really, you know, feeling maybe too overwhelmed or in my head about things.
Then I'm sure to take action. And I'm sure Halle and I'll talk about that in a little bit. But Halle, do you want to share just how you're doing or what it's like?
Yeah. So, you know, I always just think about, I mean, because right, I mean, whether it's the ads, texts, emails, fire from political, you know, candidates, it's also texts and emails from friends or on social media watching, you know, your cousin who you're like, whoa, that was a closeted
Oh, you know, whatever. And so, you know, my cousin, you know, it was Tim's neighbor.
But I bring this up because right, we're all about regulation and dysregulation. And with all of these things going on, we always talk about the zero to 10 scale, zero being your among, you know, I don't know, really peaceful, 10 being you are losing your mind.
I think in Wisconsin, baseline is five, you know, like, I don't even, I know anybody right now in Wisconsin, who's one, two, three, four. And I think five is generous. I think, honestly, everyone's touched up and every, it looks different for everybody, right, like some people retreat and become apathetic. And they're like, I'm not even going to vote.
Some people become loud and aggressive. And they're like, you better vote for this person or else, you know, like, and there's everything in between. And so managing then all of that jacks everybody up more because we just don't have that kind of emotional intelligence in our society.
And so Wisconsin and lots of other swing states or all the other ones are going through this.
And actually today, I was just texting with a group of my cousins who are more like minded, and they were getting frustrated with very loud, obnoxious comments. And I was like, okay, you guys, we have to remember the louder someone is the more dysregulated they are.
And so if we want to stay more regulated, we have to watch what we give our energy to.
And so kind of what miss our, and what's called through Mr's Auto, kind of what teacher join this thing is right, I'm like, I can put my energy into talking to more quiet people who I think are more scared of maybe voting for the first time or intimidated by the process of voting or aren't really sure what to believe.
This information, what's real, what's fake, you know, and so those people aren't out on your social media, they aren't out here telling you off. And so I've been trying to find that population of people, which, which can be my mom, my cousin, previous students, like, just kind of checking in and being like, hey, how are you?
Like, this is a lot. And we can be in denial about it, but we're all heightened. So just how are you? And then I gauge it from there. Like, you know what I mean? So that's kind of how I've been trying to navigate it because when I'm connected with people, I feel much better.
And you can't connect with a loud obnoxious dysregulated person. You just, you're making me think to teacher Halle though back to educators amplified in the mission.
How are teachers right now in this moment with, as you said, first of all, they were already ramped up and amped up and all of the other things. And now this election and how they're feeling.
You know, are they given the opportunity teacher Joanna? Maybe you can jump in on this, you know, I mean, do you get to talk about the election in schools to teachers feel like they can or they can't or they shouldn't.
I mean, what's it like to be a teacher on the front lines coming into this incredibly monumental national election?
Well, I'll be honest, I was talking with a friend of mine who's a social studies teacher just yesterday. And she said it actually is a lot more muted.
She said, this is more muted than I've ever been. And she's a high school social studies teacher, she said, but it's also because the students are more muted.
So I'm used to usually like, you know, used to like kind of mediating political discussions among students.
But this person was conveying to me that the feeling in a way is that the stakes are so high or the consequences. I don't know, but that even students aren't really sharing.
So it's kind of weird because we know there's these big feelings, but I do think in schools, it is actually more like buttoned up.
It sounds like self preservation.
Because that's what I even hear like so other teachers that I talk to in more extreme districts, like who have extreme policy, they are terrified.
They like won't touch it with a 10 foot pole.
Like if a kid were to bring something up, like even my second grader has talked about one of the students said who they were going to vote for.
And then the teacher just changes the subject. I mean, I get their seven, but like it is it isn't avoided topic.
It's sort of retribution.
Well, that's the part to the fear of retribution. Imagine teachers out there say after the last two years of the attacks on them for anything that might be seen as quote being political or taking a position.
Oh, man, educators amplified teacher Joanna teacher Halle in the house, busting pencils.
Oh, we love dancing on busted pencils.
Anyway, you want it. Yeah, we'll give it to you that way.
It's a pencils fully-led education talk educated educators talking education educators amplified in the house teacher Halle teacher Joanna.
Re-acquainting ourselves. It's been a while since we've been together so happy to be together kind of went over the educators amplified mission got into a discussion though to big election coming up in a few days here.
And how are teachers dealing with the reality of such a monumental election coming up and saying, you know, what does it mean to be in a classroom right now.
And do you feel as a teacher like you can talk about what you think? Do you feel like you have to be muted? Do you feel like you have to be censored?
Are you worried that that somebody might come after you for you having a political belief?
And maybe even for somebody out there going to him, you know what actually the reality is is that teachers, you should keep that to yourselves.
Wondering, you know, what do we do? How do we make sense of this? Because I know teachers out there listening right now are going to spend a couple more days teacher Halle teacher Joanna help me out.
Well, what I want to share is is though kind of what you alluded to just I mean teachers are professionals. They're not bringing their classrooms.
And so part of educators amplified is focusing though on the teacher experience and my experience as a teacher isn't just what happens in my classroom like the things that are really like internal to me is everything that happens kind of outside of it and around it.
So again, when I think about the election and being a teacher, here's here's a difference I noticed and then something that I'm involved with. So as you know, Halle and I are also strong union members and so through our union, we get a lot of requests to campus phone bank like
Oh, girls here, we know how to we know how to work in election. Okay. Well, my husband is also in several unions. He's in like the IBEW, IATI. I'm like, do you get like 80,000 things asking you to do anything? And he's like, no, I'm like, okay, so right there. I'm like, what is this again? And Halle and I had talked about it. Sash complained about it.
And some previous episode we all did together where we're like, really, there is a lot of labor kind of put on teachers around elections. And so even though like I'll, you know, and I've worked campaigns before and I'll do my volunteering and I'll go through my own
cycles of being like, you know what, this time I'm not going to, you know, or this time I want to convince somebody else to do it. And then like last Saturday, I'm calling Halle, like, oh, my God, are you off canvassing? She's like, yeah, I'm like, oh, man, I feel guilty. I got to get out. It's just kind of like because I'm used to always being involved at a certain level. And so I can't speak for other professions right now. I'm only comparing it to my husband, who's also an active union member. And I'm seeing this.
It's a stark difference between what his union asks of him and what my union has needed us to do because, yeah, and I'll offer to that I just, but I feel like I need to say this as co host of educators amplified that what I need to amplify is that I cannot express enough and I do not have the words, but I'm telling you trust me.
Teachers are exhausted at a rate and at a space that I have never seen before. So not like maybe five years ago, like being asked to canvas, like I'd be like, alright, I can do it.
And like, even to get teachers through their day to day is a lot that I'm like, you get there in higher education. Do you have to canvas? You can.
Right. I didn't say it's it's very much directly from your union. I mean, it's a choice more for you.
Yeah, it is. And teacher Joanna, the way you pointed out to the difference in your husband's union. And we've talked about this. I was wondering if it was a little bit of a gender issue there that you're also potentially identifying and that teachers unions are largely women organized. And so is this this whole idea of, you know, that's women's work.
Yeah, who knows. And like, but then literally the guilt we feel. So part of me sharing the story is saying that even when I set my boundaries, then, then I feel guilty.
And I do do it. And I will end up doing it. And then that goes back to my whole like, okay, I'm taking action. So there's, there's stuff I do like that for the profession. But then I'm also
I also do really get involved with get out the vote efforts just like as a person in terms of like something I really believe in. And I do believe that more powerful than canvassing is talking with people you know, and that people who are in your networks.
So the same thing I was having this conversation with social studies teachers telling you about and I was talking to her about I really do have a tradition, you know, for many years of former students who I have their information in my phone.
I always send a text about a month before any election and say, hey, it's me just checking in. Tis the season. You know, I check in for elections. Do you have a voting plan? Do you plan to order an absentee ballot? Do you want to vote early in person?
Or you plan to go to the day up to the polls? Do you know what any of that means? Because there really are some conflicting messages about like voting. It's easy. And yes, it is like I want listeners to know like it is easy enough that you you you can and you should do it.
But there really are some things to understand and I can even just tell you I don't know a quick story about one of our former students who so one of our former students I see him regularly because he works at the grocery store that I go to.
So just the other day talking to him. I'm like, yo, heavy voted yet. He's like, I did. He's like, I ordered my absentee ballot. He's like, but then I had my sister helped me fill it out. And I realized like I needed her to sign as a witness.
But then I, you know, I thought she was my assistant. So then she filled that out. So then when I went to drop it off, I wanted to talk to them about it. And there was this line that said early vote here.
He's like, so I had to envelope in my hand. And I thought, okay, this is early like right this envelope. I'm turning it in early. So right even right there like not being clear what the difference between like an absentee ballot is an early in person.
So he says he's like, well, I wait in the line. And it was a long line. He's like, and I get there and I explain about my ballot. And they helped me with it. And they fix it. And then they said, well, hey, next time you didn't have to wait in this line. You could have just dropped it in the box outside.
And so these are just honest, you know, like again, it's it can be complex. And I was at lunch yesterday with a coworker. And she was like, oh my gosh, I'm so worried that the day of the election. I'm not going to make it on time because my husband works this. She has many children.
And I was like, you realize you could still like you could early vote now or you could order your absentee ballot right now. She's like, I could. I was like, yeah, pull a throne.
And so it really is accessible. But I do think it really helps to have people walk you through it. And especially when it's someone you know. And so for me, in particular, my coworkers and my former students, I really do walk a lot of people through the process.
Yeah, I have a similar experience where I earlier this week met with a previous student where she had never voted before. So she wasn't registered. So I was like, all right.
I'm meeting you at City Hall. We're doing this, you know, and so she's all excited. She's got her paper, you know, actually you only need an ID now, which was nice. But we're walking in and I was like, wait, before we walk in.
Before we walk in, she's like, yes. And I was like, have you ever seen a sample ballot? And she's like, no. And I'm like, because do you realize there are more things on that ballot than just the president?
No, it's like, okay. So then we like, look it up on the phone, which was nice. And I went through it all. And because even looking at the ballot, you can be like, I don't remember my first times voting being like, okay, am I doing this right? Will I mess it up?
Like, how do I know how to bubble this in? You know, it's just natural. And so we went through it and said, okay, thank you. So then we were standing in line waiting. And there was two separate lines. One that was like, if you're registered, go this way.
If you're not registered, go that way. And it was a little worded funny. So I ended up being like the voter like navigation person, where like people come in. And I'm like, they're standing in line. And then they're, and I was like, wait, are you registered? And they're like, yeah, I'm like, oh, then you go over there.
Then you go over there. And I, you know, like she just kept laughing. She's like, you should work here because so many people just came in, assume they're standing in the line they're supposed to, you know, like, so it's just all of that.
I think everybody needs a voting mentor. You need just like a voting mentor to like, remind to check in with to double check to share experiences.
Yeah. So I have enjoyed being a voting mentor. And back to again, the friend that I was talking to yesterday, because she was again in the election anxiety.
And I asked her, does she take this kind of action? Like, I'm like, do you reach out? Because then the last part is after we help people, we do tell them to, you know, go out to five more people. We're like, now you know it. Right.
And now are you going to make sure five other people participate in voting? And I was just empowering another educator last night to like, reach out. And people can get, you know, and so I shared her the sample texts that I write, because again, like anything, like why y'all love AI and chat GPT, right? It's nice to see an example.
It's nice to see a model. It's good to hear someone else's experience.
Well, and I'll also call out, you know, I like a nicely easy to understand website. And my vote.wi.gov is salad. Like, I've really been like, wow, this is a nice website. You know, very easy to understand. And I'm someone that still mails in my ballot where I'm able to track it. I'm able to know when it gets there. And even when they mailed it ahead of time, like it shows sample ballots.
It's like you can type your name in and your date of birth and see if you're registered, you know, like I just, it is a website that I am like, because I am very cautious, especially with working with students that is this helping or is this hurting. And I would recommend my vote.wi.gov to figure out what things look like.
It's helpful. It is a helpful tool. So I also recommend that as well.
But yeah, I will really say like being able to take action in the way of talking to people I know or just even going out, like, and when I was canvassing, like, it does alleviate anxiety because it's like the spooky scary thoughts.
Honestly, I'm canvassing in a very red area. Fine, but like everyone was very nice to me.
You know, the spooky scary posts or the spooky scary ads that have been like thrust in my face all this month. I'm like, people aren't spooky scary. They're just like neighbors raking leaves.
Well, you don't, you, you know my neighbor, though, that's not true.
Just think, Johnny, question for you, though, as we're listening to Teacher Halle and Teacher Joanna talk about this, the work that they're doing in the union.
And I think the union with versus because somebody right now is out there going, wait, you teachers, it sounds to me like you're getting way to involved in helping people vote. That could be a problem.
But it's the union work as an educator. I'm thinking, Johnny, my role when I've since I've left being a public school teacher went into higher education.
It's just on me. I don't feel any pressure to help anybody do anything.
Well, Tim, I mean, that, that's interesting because I still consider myself a public educator, even though my students are, you know, 19, 20, 21 years old.
And so I love here in Teacher Halle and Teacher Joanna talk about this. I think there is a feminized dimension to this organizing and labor that whether you're male identifying or female is part of our profession as educators.
And we talked about the AFT being one of the largest unions for nurses and teachers right out there doing that work.
One of the things I love and I want to highlight, you know, here is we're not like we're not over involved in telling you how to vote.
Yeah, we're doing our civic responsibility as educators to make sure you know your responsibility and your right to being a voter having that voice and input.
So I get to teach, you know, 50, 60 future teachers, many of them, this is their first election.
Yeah.
So we've spent the last couple of weeks talking about how do elections work, similar to Teacher Joanna and Teacher Halle.
Making sure my students understand how they can vote as well as where do they navigate this vast sea of information because there's so much more on the ballot than just the presidential election.
So where can we get reliable and trustworthy information from our unions? What are the issues that we feel are most important to us?
And where do we get that information so that we're prepared not only to know how and where to vote, but what to vote and to develop that in our own way and in conversation and our interests.
So loving this conversation, you know, Tim, Teacher Halle, Teacher Joanna, we're going to keep it going. Absolutely love it.
Oh, there it is.
There it is, what's the pencils fully let it education talk, educated educators, talking education, special episode are most bestest friends ever.
Educators amplified Teacher Halle and Teacher Joanna in the house, truly busting pencils with us on this episode, man, enjoying the time, special election.
Just though before we, you know, kind of finish up a little bit more election talk, just give the listener the opportunity though educators amplified, where do I find it, what do I do, how do I get more of it.
I want more educators amplified Teacher Halle, Teacher Joanna, help me more, more, so we can offer that.
So check out our website. It's just educators amplified dot com, no apostrophes, no spaces, no underscores, but educators amplified dot com, you can check out our Instagram or Facebook.
At educators amplified on both of them. And then we have loads of podcasts, whether you like to listen on Spotify or Apple or wherever we are on it.
So that's where you can find us or with the busted pencils boys.
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Johnny, you made a nice pivot though. And I, you know, let's finish up. There's more election here though. The difference between our responsibility as educators to prepare citizens to take their active role as a participant in democracy.
So that does get turned into where people going, you're out there doing something unprofessional. And you're like, well, wait a minute. What is the difference? So I was wondering, maybe the, you know, Johnny teacher Joanna teacher Halle, help the listener understand that really important point that you were making.
No, it's not indoctrination to be an educator and to prepare students and the community for their civic responsibilities. That's not indoctrination.
That's responsible, that's responsible education.
Some schools that is a graduation requirement to complete voter registration.
I also offer that, right, there's a different, you know, as a professional, I know how to educate, right, like, and it's not just teaching is telling.
I'm telling them what to think, how to think, open the brain, input the information, teaching is much more complex than that.
And that is what I see that people who think this is indoctrination are very big and believing that like if you don't talk about it, kids won't know about it.
Or I would think most educators who are effective are like, we have to talk about it.
So that students can learn critical thinking skills and they can understand what's real, what's fake, what's a credible source.
You know, and so it's this concept of can you talk about it or not an education is talking about it. It's not telling them what to think.
It's teaching them how to use their thoughts, their imagination, their creativity to explore, you know, and so fundamentally, it's just, it's different ways of thought.
And so that's what's frustrating as an educator, like when I'm talking about voting, I'm increasing your confidence so that you'll go do your civic duty.
I'm not talking about it so that you do exactly what I think and say, you know, like it's more about building the confidence, the self awareness, the ability, then indoctrination.
So that's how I look at it.
I call it empowerment versus indoctrination, right? But but Johnny, I've come up with you know, some people who've said, no, empowering, that's indoctrination.
So making the difference because you think about what does it mean to be able to vote? And there are some people out there going, it shouldn't be easy. It shouldn't be you just show up.
There's supposed to be, you know, these these complications and you sit down and go, it's like, wait a minute.
Who's the who's the got the real problem then? If you're trying to actually limit how many people vote and making it, you know, harder to vote, it sounds to me like that's a form of indoctrination where you are trying to actively discourage voters.
And I think just Johnny, you know, say we've worked with social studies teachers for so long. I think sometimes we just always imagine that well, every teacher's always in some form of helping teachers take their place in in in a democracy.
And maybe we're just a little bit kind of spoiled in that being social studies teachers. It's been so much of what we do.
Yeah, especially, you know, my students are social studies teachers. And so teaching about elections is part of learning civics. And, you know, I think you hit the nail on the head, Tim, it's really also clarifying it's not indoctrinating to empower people to understand how to get multiple perspectives on issues that matter to them, how to begin to identify as stakeholders in a democracy.
These decisions impact lives of our students of us of the people we love. And so how do we want those decisions to go on what's our role in that process.
So for me, that's the big one I explained that process and I'm really clear and transparent about it.
And now for your moment of zen.
So yes, they depend on our obedience. When we withdraw it, their power disappears. It's important to know that it's important to know that every little thing we do helps.
We don't all have to do heroic things. All we have to do is little things. And at certain points in history, millions of little things come together and change takes place.
Love this special episode, busted pencils, educators amplified in the house, teacher Halle, teacher Joanna, it's been so great to have you guys back.
And again, too, if you're out there, you're following the show, make sure you're on the civic media app download that civic media app because that allows you to constantly how we stay in touch with busted pencils.
Love the conversation that we were able to have tonight again, having you all back in the saddle, the things that we do talking about teacher voice.
And guess what, you know, as we are coming up the home stretch teachers out there, you're doing your civic duty, it is not indoctrinating to empower people to take their role as an active citizen in a democracy.
That is what it means to be an educator and that actually is an amplified educator that's doing that kind of work, busted pencils, check us out next time.
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