This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk.
Here are your hosts, Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,
educated educators talking education.
Welcome to Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk,
educated educators talking, education classes in session,
Johnny Lupinacci, how are you my friend?
Good, good, Tim, how are you doing, man?
It's good to be here.
You know what?
One of my favorite things is our midweek classes in session
because we get to dive right into some amazing stuff
and wow, do we got a great guest tonight or today
or whatever time you're listening to this?
We're not even recording for a listen out there.
We're not even recording in the night.
It's always assumed it's night time.
But hey, you know, we got a great guest
and there's nothing better than when you can dive into
some riveting storytelling that gets to the essence
of what people are experiencing, whether it be good or bad.
And you know what, that's been something
that's been extremely helpful in teaching about the conditions
that children and teachers are experiencing in schools.
And Tim, man, our guests tonight, good friend of yours,
he's got some riveting stories.
He's got some amazing stories.
In fact, you know, let's put it out there.
You know, he was a teacher.
He's retired.
And this is the best part.
Love when teachers get that book voice, puts together
all of these stories, thriving in a public school.
Welcome to Busted Pencils, Alan Levy.
Alan, how are you, our friend?
Oh, wonderful.
Thank you so much for inviting me.
So, okay, you know, we're talking before interviewing here
and I'll just drop this in there.
You pointed this out, you know, talking about the fact
that Jonathan Kozel said we were in there,
92 new book coming out, but Alan, you kind of pointed
to the fact that thriving in a public school,
either there's inspiration from Jonathan Kozel's
savage inequalities or you looked at his savage inequalities
like, well, that's good, but it needs part two.
Help me understand.
Make the connection between your work, Jonathan Kozel,
and then we're going to dive deep into specifically your book.
Oh, I have great admiration and respect for Jonathan Kozel.
And as a young teacher, it was a must read savage inequalities.
But prior to writing this book, I reread it.
Because what I saw it is he was pointing out the problems.
He pointed out the inequalities within the system.
And what I try to do is offer some solutions,
offer hope to teachers in a way forward to actually make changes.
Well, you put it in there too, yeah, thriving in a public school.
So right away, kind of coming at this from the positive framing.
This is a compilation of memories from the standpoint two
that are there.
And in fact, you know, we've got a lot of different things.
You know what, I just want to remind people too.
Remember, we have that busted pencils mailbag.
So before we even get deep into this interview,
the number is 6085578577.
It's 6085578577.
That's the mailbag.
You can drop anything in their questions for Alan comments.
Hey, well, even take your concerns.
We don't mind.
That's what we're here for.
But Alan, thriving in a public school opens with a bold, bold statement
at Hollerick High School.
And you point out is a racist institution.
Okay.
Can you share how the student activism at Horlick tackled this head on
and what the transformation look like both for the school
and students themselves there?
Question number one, Alan, dropping it on you.
Okay, so first off, it's Horlick High School.
Okay.
Horlick, it's very important to get that name right.
People are very proud to be part of the Horlick.
It's a big question.
What you just asked is how do we tackle the issue of racism in the school?
Well, first off, a racist institution is,
it really means it perpetuates the status quo.
Those who do well continue to do well.
Those who aren't doing well,
which are mostly minority kids,
they continue as a group not to do well.
So what we did was we immediate what I did to begin with
was to begin to organize the teachers within the teachers union,
because that was a teacher I was a president.
I became the president of the union.
To get them to begin to understand their power.
And at the same time, I began to organize the students,
particularly it started with the Latino students.
I taught Latino American history.
And we first we started to put on events that were,
that where they began to build their leadership.
And then we started to tackle major issues within the community.
And we involved their parents.
We hooked up with Vulsas Deila Frontero,
which is an immigrant rights group.
And they became very accomplished leaders,
both within their school,
but also within the community.
So they began to rise up within that institution.
And they began to have power within the institution.
So that was, that was the beginning.
Johnny Dubinacci.
Well, yeah, I can't agree with Alan Moore here
about this the way the role that racist institutions play
in perpetuating, you know, these inequalities.
And what we can do, Alan,
big fan of student activism here,
just activism in general,
but especially youth, youth movements.
Talk to us in the listeners a little bit about the youth
at Horlick and the,
and the inspiring and energetic work that, you know,
you can read about and, and the book,
but give our listeners a taste,
because it is, it is really special.
Well, it's a big, you know,
this covers a 19 year span.
Oh, love that.
This isn't just a year or two.
So there are very, very inspiring stories,
but essentially what it boiled down to was first,
with the students,
I got them involved in just organizing activities within the school.
And whether it was a black history program,
or a Latino program,
they began to gain confidence in themselves.
And from that point, we,
we established clubs.
We established first in African,
Latino American,
Latino club called Suferir,
students united for immigrant rights.
And then African American club called Suits,
students united in the struggle.
And eventually these clubs came together,
but those clubs were instrumental
in the kids becoming organized,
and becoming here, getting their own voices,
getting training and learning skills,
to begin to organize within their school and in the community.
So that's kind of how we did it.
There were many, many very inspiring stories.
I mean, it started out when it started my class
in Latino American history.
I tried to, to be,
I tried to teach things that were relevant.
But I was very surprised to see that
it was a great inspiration.
It was front and center.
Because there were so many immigrants within,
recene, within Milwaukee,
within the state of Wisconsin.
It was something, and there were immigrants in my students.
Some undocumented, some undocumented.
But all the kids who are Latino knew somebody,
or had somebody in their family who was undocumented.
So we started to organize on that issue.
And, you know, I'll never forget,
the first thing we did was in my classroom,
I had showed a PBS special about how Tyson Foods
was enticing people to come across the border
to work in the South, in the chicken factories.
And what it created was a tremendous up people
with some of the regular, how would you call them?
The people who had been there for generations.
It didn't like the new culture coming in.
The KKK began to organize.
And it really showed what those folks were up against.
And the kid in the class said,
Hell no.
This is, we're not putting up with this.
And she said, I'm taking tomorrow off.
I'm going to go to this, this march in recene for,
it was a freedom march for immigrants.
So I called the principal.
I said, we're all going to, we would all like to go.
So she approved it, to her credit, she approved it.
And we went.
But it created this backlash,
because I was interviewed during the march.
And the local media picked it up.
And there were letters to the editor.
There were calls to the school.
It was, it was a big backlash.
So I said to the kids,
what are we going to do about this?
I read the most racist letter to the editor.
And it's in the book.
And the kids said, I said, let's, let's analyze this.
So we used to as a class assignment.
We first, I said, what is this person actually saying?
What is your reaction to it?
And how would you do?
What would you say to this person?
And then we brainstormed.
So the upshot of it was,
we were able to get,
I asked the kids who would like to take the computation,
compilation,
and make a letter out of it.
So five or six kids did.
And they wrote beautiful letters.
So I had them submitted to the, to the local paper.
And they printed all of them.
And it would begin.
It, it, it kind of,
so they became involved in the community.
You know, we've been invited.
Kristi Newman or T.
She was an executive director of Vosis de la Pantera to the school.
She spoke to the classes.
And she told about a hearing for in-state tuition
for undocumented students and asked,
who would like to go?
So the kids, no, she just said,
she mentioned it.
And I said, well,
would you pay for some buses?
And she said, absolutely.
So we took a busload of kids to Madison.
On our way up,
myself and Victor Moreno,
who taught bilingual ed,
we, we asked the kids to write testimony.
And we, we corrected it.
All the way up, we corrected it.
We gave them feedback.
So we got to the hearing.
And at the hearing.
Victor or Pedro Cologne,
he introduced the bill for in-state tuition.
He had a press conference.
And the kids were just blown away,
because all the things, all the points that they touched on,
he had, he had addressed in his press conference.
Well,
there was a hearing.
And Pedro said, look,
maybe you should just bring one or two students in
because it's too, the room is too full.
So we said, no.
So we pushed,
I pushed the kids in.
Victor pulled them in.
We got in the room.
And it was jam-packed.
And they were speaking.
But not, they didn't have any of our kids speaks.
So this, this Hispanic teacher,
I say Hispanic,
because Hispanic is kind of a conservative way of saying,
Latino or Latina.
It's a conservative phrase.
It's a business phrase.
And this conservative teacher gets up.
And he says, excuse me in this, in this meeting room.
He says, excuse me.
But these kids have come all the way from Horlick High School,
Racine, Wisconsin to speak.
Would you allow them to speak?
Their bus is leaving soon.
So they said, of course.
So they let the kids speak.
I'm just going to tell this quick.
And it's a very important question.
One of the girls was questioned as if she was undocumented.
And they said, he said,
and she got very scared.
Because it's a big deal to admit that you're undocumented.
Or they said you are illegal, not even undocumented.
So this little girl in the front of the room says,
she looks at me.
And she's in her eyes.
She's burning.
And she's like, let me speak.
So I call her up.
She comes up and she says, I'm undocumented.
Let me tell you what we do.
And what you're denying us.
When she got on the bus,
it exploded with applause.
And this was a kid who,
a lot of the kid, there was a lot of tension
between the undocumented and the first generation.
Because everybody wants to be American.
And, you know, there's a real stigma to being undocumented.
But this completely, from that moment on,
that the vibe was breached.
And these kids came together.
And that was the story.
That's the beginning story of organizing these students.
Alan, it's, it's a great example,
two of all of the stories that are in thriving
in a public school.
And just remind people too.
We're talking to Alan Levy about her book,
thriving in a public school.
If you have any questions for Alan,
though, too, yeah, our mailbag 608-557-8577.
That's the number.
Because with that, too, you know, yeah,
not live radio, but we would love to hear from you.
Tell us what's happening.
Ask your questions.
Because we will always pass these on to our guests.
608-557-8577.
All of these stories that come through the book, Alan,
I love that you gave us a taste right there
so that people can get a sense of this.
I want to put this into a little bit of a present moment,
though, too, because I'm feeling like what you're describing in here.
And Johnny put this in the notes.
This is an excellent example of teaching with youth activism.
Wonderful examples there.
Could I do this today?
Could I do what you just did?
I'm thinking of a social studies teacher out there
who's saying, you know what?
Man, that's inspiring.
I don't think I could do that, though,
because boy, that feels like some form of indoctrination, Alan.
Well, it's indoctrination.
If it's coming from the teacher.
But it's coming from the students.
It's their issue.
That's not indoctrination.
That's actually giving them the space to exert or to put there
who they are to deal with their situation.
Can you do it today?
Yes. It's being done today.
In Milwaukee, yes has spread youth and power in the struggle,
which was a group that came out of this organizing.
Right now, they're fighting for decent school lunches in the school.
There are hundreds of Milwaukee kids who are working on that.
So, yes, it's very possible for that to happen today.
Johnny, Johnny's got a good nodded indoctrination.
Johnny, jump on that.
Well, yeah, Tim, I mean, I like that you always bring that up
because our listeners are always worried,
and especially sometimes teachers,
but you can't do this in Alan.
It's like it's obvious for teachers that teach with and for youth activism,
really for activism.
They understand that this is a process that emerges from the experience
of young people for their energy and their desires for a different future.
Right?
And they want it now.
And so helping them intergenerational connect the dots, learn from history,
learn from social organizing, learn from other social movements,
and have a great teacher like Alan and his colleagues.
And he just talked about, you know,
students organizing around school lunches right now and all of these things.
We're talking about this amidst the largest social uprising of all of our lifetime.
Exactly.
And you know, that school lunch program or organizing
came from John Flicner, a very talented art teacher in Milwaukee,
who's worked on, who's, it's not his issue, it's their issue.
Yeah.
They came forward.
He, as well as all the stuff, the Palestinian organizing that's going on in his school,
from his students, not from him.
And I think, you know, we indoctrinate kids when we don't listen to their voice.
That's right.
But listening to their voices, the opposite of indoctrination.
Man, Alan, you point out too, just and I'm glad you said this,
but the youth empowered in the struggle of movement that comes out of Horlick.
You put this together.
This is a movement that's continuing to this day, correct?
Absolutely.
If they're stronger today than they were when I was there, these,
and the beauty of it is there's somebody alumni that have come out of Horlick
that are now top flight organizers.
The political assistant political director of Moses,
Paula Frantetta, came out of Horlick.
Kenia Coronata, who just got a PhD in political science,
a tremendous organizer came out of Horlick.
All this organized, there's a lot of examples.
We help them create the sea possibilities.
We didn't tell them being an organizer.
We showed them opportunities by the networking, by their personal growth.
Alan, the book is thriving in a public school, man.
We've enjoyed talking to Alan.
Where can people go and find this book?
This is your opportunity.
Pitch away, man.
Well, number one, Amazon is an easy way to get it.
You can go on Amazon or any of your local bookstores.
If they don't have it, they can order it through Ingram Press.
They all have the numbers and they can buzz well books.
You know, I went to buzz when I asked them and they said,
absolutely, I would love to have a book signing at buzz well.
But up to this point, I haven't had one.
And maybe some of the readers can call in and say,
as an independent bookstore, why wouldn't you have an independent author
do a book signing at your store?
I think you just put it out there, Alan.
They're 608-557-8577.
You could drop it in the Busted Pencils mailbag.
We'll make that pitch for Alan's book,
thriving in a public school.
Stories, real stories about youth empowerment and activism
and the learning that occurred.
But during that time, go ahead.
That's one of the things I wanted to say.
It's very important.
It's not just about the students.
It's about transformation of the schools.
That means it has to be students and teachers engaging together
with their community.
Act 10 was a defining moment for teachers, public teachers.
Well, we had bus loads of students go to Madison for act 10
and stand up for their teachers.
And rally all over the scene.
It fundamentally transformed the relationship of Horlick,
yet in recene, between teachers and students.
They began to see themselves as allies.
Teachers became less missionary life.
And more, we're in this together.
That's a very important point in this book.
That is the point.
Yeah, Alan Agnesami, and you landed right there.
And in fact, truly that is.
And we thank you so much for the interview time.
But thank you for Busting Pencils, Alan Levy.
And now it's time for your moment of sin.
To be hopeful in bad times is based on the fact
that human history is not only of cruelty,
but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness.
If we see only the worst, it destroys our capacity to do something.
If we remember those times and places where people have behaved magnificently,
this gives us the energy to act.
Man, make sure you stay tuned for Friday's Drop.
When we talk, you know, I hate everything extra curricular.
First down Friday nights, and man, always.
Thank you all for Busting Pencils.
Spells out completely.