This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk.
Here are your hosts, Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,
educated educators talking education.
Oh, yes it is, Busted Pencils fully-ledded education talk,
educated educators talking education,
Tuesday night, Tim and Jess Johnny were giving him a little time off.
You know, his daughter has a dance recital, we thought, Jess, we should let him attend that, you know?
Absolutely, it's important.
It's important, and you know, I think, you know, if we have the ability to, you know,
maybe Johnny can send us some pictures of him being, now we don't need proof,
it's Busted Pencils, the number is 85575248428557524842.
Yeah, civic media, Jess, I was thinking about this, so I was out, you know, as Johnny put out there,
out doing some, you should say some research, some connections with people,
Castle Visiting, you know, was out there, and I was in the Midwest area of Michigan
and spending some time in Michigan going forth and meeting lots of cool people,
people involved with artificial intelligence and how they might use artificial intelligence
in the school, and it's been, you know, it's been great to go out and do some, I've really,
or to do some of the, call it research or glad handing, just really talking to potential guests
for the show, because there's so much going on, and right now Michigan has really stepped up as
a key state to watch, because of the amount of support they keep putting forward for their
public schools, not just K-12, but higher education included, you know, and so we are just over there
saying like, hey, what's it like to be in a state where, values, public education, it's like,
you know, it's like a foreign country, it's like what in the world, and so I've got to meet a lot
of great people over there in Michigan, and so, you know, we'll be highlighting them in the coming
weeks and months, we glad. Yeah, we love to hear, you know, happy stories, but people doing great,
great work, just though, too, while I was there, had the bus, or I had the civic media app, you know,
with it, because the civic media app allows me to listen to busted pencils anywhere, anytime,
on my smartphone, and not just busted pencils, all the civic media shows, download that app,
just Wisconsin's Fall primary election, though, it's today Tuesday. I voted, I got
must to go right here. Nice, you got to vote it. The polls close at 8 p.m., if you have not voted,
yet, please do so now to find your polling location, go to my vote, wi.gov, if you are in line by
8 p.m., you will be allowed to cast your ballot at 8 p.m. tune into your favorite civic media station
for results coverage anchored by news director Terry Bell, man, and the other part, though, too, just
you know what's really special, busted pencils is sponsored by the Monaco Brewing Company,
who sued the state of Wisconsin to end its really crappy voucher system that hurts public schools,
Monaco Brewing Company is making Wisconsin great again, one beer at a time, check out
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fully let it. I am excited to be here tonight. We announced was it three weeks, two months ago,
the partnership or the month ago, just like things go fine so fast. I think it's been almost three
months, Tim. It's been three months are rethinking schools relaunch of a partnership that had begun
when busted pencils was a standalone podcast and then went to a radio show. We re-engage with
rethinking schools to have that partnership. We've had their Sarah Calajones on to talk about
the partnership and how we're going to be featuring authors, additions to really highlight that
work that they continue to do, rethinking schools. We said if you remember anybody's like acquaintance
for times, man, they have brought up every topic that you could say, wait a minute, you come out
there's yet rethinking, rethinking Columbus. I say that's always my landmark of going when
did rethinking schools emerge into my kind of visual field is when they put out that 500-year
anniversary. What does it mean to rethink teaching Columbus? Now think about all of those topics
are guests tonight, though editor. From the summer issue of rethinking schools, the Trans
Gender Justice in Schools, it's a life or death thing. Welcome to busted pencils.
Ty Marshall. Ty. Thank you so much for coming to busted pencils tonight.
Absolutely. We've got the summer edition and a book we're going to talk about.
I'm getting ready for the show. I'm reading. I'm doing my research and I go back
2020, I think it was. There's a post instructional time and I went through that and read
that post and was like, okay, so this is the introduction to Ty Marshall and the reality of what
it meant at that moment when the transition, because we're going to be talking about, the transition
was complete and the implications of what that meant for you as a classroom teacher who then
was told and you had to sign your name to this that the transition, uh-uh, you're going to
teach social studies, dammit, Ty. Right. Talk about it. I mean, it's easy to laugh about now
with some room, but I think, um, you know, the way that the, you know, union rap with all his
best intentions and the district sort of responded to my transition was a little bit of like,
if we can control the conversation around this, we're going to come out looking okay.
And I think that element of like trying to delete sort of the existence of transness or like kind of
let's, let's take the uncomfortable stuff and put it over here far, far away, um, is like when people
are not yet comfortable and ready to talk about challenging topics and, um, you know, at the time
I was told like this is to protect you, um, but ultimately I feel like what got demonstrated to
my students and the whole community was like, we are very uncomfortable with trans people, we are
not willing to have this be a part of our curriculum. And it's, um, it's that kind of sense of what we
allow to be, um, conversation and just sort of like a part of our humanity in the classroom,
like controlling that piece. Um, yeah, it was really hard. Yeah, I mean, the whole sense of it was
truly, you know, at an erasure moment of saying, okay, this year, fine, your time, Marshall,
the, the male social studies teacher. And as a social studies teacher, tie, that's what you will
teach. That's what you will talk about regardless of the potential students and how they may
approach and even ask questions, the way some parents, the way some of your colleagues, no, no,
no, no, no, no. And that's 2020. This is, this is before all of the quote horrendous don't say gay
type of bills anti LGBTQ type of, um, craziness that we're dealing with then. And that, that simple
act of what you said, you know, was there was a union rep and again, intentions wherever they were,
but the policy was to say tie your social studies teacher. That's what you talk about.
And that's all you're going to talk about to think about that now going to 2024. And we've got the,
you know, the new edition transgender justice in school coming out of rethinking schools and then
whole book dedicated to this. Tell me about the pro either where we're at since 2020 when you wrote
that really, you know, very, it said very personal, very painful account of what happened at that
time when you had the transition moment. And now here we are 2024 where we're writing transgender
justice. And we're saying coming out of, you know, some of the most horrendous I'm in Ohio.
And people I said, Ohio has somehow escaped the, the, the, the, the scrutiny of the horrendousness
of the attack on LGBTQ students like, you know, it's always focused on Florida or this, but it's
as bad if not worse here in Ohio. To a teacher right now in Southeast Ohio, maybe, you know,
this is hard of Appalachian Ohio saying, man, I really want to, I'm listening to us to pencils
tonight. I'm listening to Tim. I'm listening to Ty. I want to get that rethinking schools edition.
Man, I'm not going to put that on my desk, though, is coming back to school. How do you talk to people
about, you know, this idea that you have a whole edition of both the magazine and a book that's
going to be talking about transgender justice? What does that mean to you?
I mean, that's such a great question. I think, you know, we've come, like, when you're talking about
2020 to 2024, right? Like, I feel like we have come from the visibility of trans people. I mean,
even, you know, back to like 2014, you know, there was like that famous interview with Laverne Cox
where, you know, she's, you know, putting herself forward as this beautiful, powerful actress
and then being asked, like, these really invasive questions about her body and her surgery and her
hormones. It was like the Katie Curric Show. So just to say, like, you know, with visibility comes
back lash and I think that's, you know, what we're seeing and it's really important to remember that
all these bills that are being pushed, like you mentioned, like don't say gay and, you know,
the bathroom bills, the bills targeting trans youth who just want to participate in sports. Like,
all of that, like, both schools are the epicenter of so many of those bills. So we have this power
to like change the conversation to be focused on people's humanity rather than like, you know,
again, yeah, what medical treatment is the student undergoing, right? Like, we protect that stuff
with students in every other aspect, why are we not protecting it in terms of, you know, trans students.
And then I think the other piece is just, you know, because the audience of this show is like from
all over, like, these bills are being introduced by organizations that are not necessarily even based
in the places where they're pushing this legislation, right? Like, it's a real project. And so
as much as we can feel that sense of like power and connection with other people who are fighting
for justice, that's the purpose of the book and the magazine to really be a place like, you know,
we want folks to do study groups with the book with their union or their church or whatever they
can to really start building that sense of like what we're seeing in the legislature is not us.
So it's busted pencils. It's fully let it education talk to numbers 857524842 our guest
time Marshall. He's the editor of the new edition, a summer edition of rethinking schools,
transgender transgender justice in the school and also the new book coming out. We're going to talk
more about that. You can give us a call 857524842. Hey, talk to us about what's happening where you
are in this issue trans justice busted pencils.
It's totally let it education talk educated educators talking education numbers 857524842. Sherry
and Horacan, thank you. Good evening to you. And guess what? Just Sherry voted wearing
her sticker to just putting it out there. Very good. It's one of my favorite fashion statements to
make. I voted. You put that and then you know what? If you're really doing it, you go out and you
donate blood on the same day, you voted and you get to wear both of those little stickers and really
show off. When I try to do that, they have to put the blood back so it's sorry, we're not we're not
taking any. Our guest is Ty Marshall and he is the editor of the new book transgender justice in
school and also the new edition of the summer of rethinking schools life or it's a life or death
thing. The title of the anchor article in the summer edition doesn't mince words, Ty. Transgender
education and support in the school is life or death. What challenges currently face transgender
students and educators? I mean, we touched a little bit on the number of laws that are.
Thanks, Sherry. Sorry, that's just our soundboard throwing. I don't know, a little party for itself.
I'm so sorry, Ty. Okay. They really wants to have that party. Nothing was wrong with a little
journey. Okay, Ty, so back to the question. Yeah, so you know, we've talked a little bit about
like these a huge number of bands on gender affirming care for kids and adults and then how
that's trickling into schools as far as like requiring some schools to deliberately misgender
kids that even if the teachers are affirming of that kid's identity, the school policy is that
you have to use their birth name and some of that is also impacting trans teachers whether they're
targeted for their identity or their curriculum and not just trans teacher teachers who are willing
to teach anything about queer and trans issues. So yeah, it's, I mean, the challenges are a lot
and I think our hope with the book is really to present, you know, what's at stake, right? The
first chapter is really kind of hitting on that, yeah, life or death with real personal experiences
from trans authors who are teachers and then trying to give folks some examples of like where could
you be bringing in more trans joy, trans visibility in your curriculum, really centering student
voices of course in the third chapter and then, you know, the fourth chapter, how do we organize
in this current climate, right? Where, you know, even a teacher who reads a book about rainbows
gets fired, right? Right, right. In fact, where Jess is in Waukeshaw, that's where the teacher
was from Rainbow Land, as you point that out, you know, tied though to, yeah, life or death,
it is. When you talk about that, I know there is this kind of part where what you even talk about
the bullying that occurs to and in your experience as a teacher and then seeing that as that,
I mean, how does somebody, and I'm thinking about you back in 2020, when you quote, had to sign
off on instructional time, that the reality even then was, okay, whatever happens to me personally
in the attacks I get, I have to kind of hold those in tight and not talk about them, but then
has students who might even approach you from that standpoint of saying, you know, Mr. Marshall,
can we talk? Right. You know, because at that moment, that child, that student, that may be a life
or death moment when they say, Mr. Marshall, can we talk? Right, right. Yes, I mean, and I think what's
so interesting about like, you know, whatever then to now for me personally, but I think also for
a lot of educators, whether it's teachers of color trying to teach, you know, about their history,
anybody, like, the stakes with students coming out of COVID, I feel like there's a very much like,
a higher emphasis on like, what is felt in the classroom and like, how do people feel connected
and where we're still struggling with that as a whole society, right? But we're just the,
we're the Petri dish that gets to figure that out, but, you know, like I was teaching criminal
justice last year and I had students get to hear all these amazing speakers and it could be the most
well-spoken, great leftist and the students are like, ah, not sure about that vibe, you know,
like that, the sense of connection is so critical right now and I think the impact on trans youth,
if their trans teachers are silenced is just like a double message, right? Of like, you know,
they only see represented trans people who are like fearful and that's why, you know, in writing that
and in the sort of edited version of that article, which is in the book, I really did want to emphasize
that sense of like, humanity and joy, that's like what we have control over as educators in our rooms,
so. Well, in the joy, we love that word, Jess and I and Johnny, because we have just been writing
the joy train, you know, coming out of the walls announcement with the vice president and Kamala Harris,
you know, there's been this sense of joy and you talk about that word because instead of, instead of
despair, but to experience joy, what about a teacher right now who's out there and they want to
push back and they want to bring this issue of rethinking schools, the magazine or the book and
put it on their bookshelf, how do they resist the oppressive anti-LGBTQ realities that are out there
today? Yes, I mean, I think first and foremost, like, don't be a loner, right? A lone wolf
teacher always sinks, so I think, you know, when you're bringing something out, talk to your, find
your allies in your building, you know, unions are doing some cool advocacy for trans teachers and
making sure the medical care and the contracts they fight for are trans inclusive, people are doing
amazing work around the school boards and sort of some of those organizing campaigns, so I think,
you know, knowing who your allies are, are there parents that you can call on? There's some great
examples of folks using parent allies to do good, so yeah, just, I think, not being alone, and
I think, you know, highlighting those pieces of resistance, like, as we were putting this book
together, when I first talked about these laws, these trans health care vans, gosh, was this summer of
22? My students were like, and we're, there's no hope, you know, and so we really tried to put
together some curriculum in Linda, has a great example of that in the book of, how do we highlight
what resistance is working, right? If we're not winning in the courts, where are we winning, you know,
and there's wonderful examples of that of, you know, people flying folks to different states to
get health care, or having drag shows on the capital steps to protest bans.
Man, where, well, I know where else to rethinking schools, it's always there, rethinking schools,
our partnership with as busted pencils, rethinking schools, and our author, time, martial editor,
also of the book, trends, gender, justice, in school, both the addition that's out right now,
that you can go to rethinking schools and check that out. When we get back, more questions, stay tuned.
Yeah, there it is. Busted pencils fully, let it education talk.
8557524842, if you want to be an educated educator, talking education, we can give us a call,
our guest, time, Marshall, he is one of the editors of the new book, coming out from rethinking
schools, transgender, justice in the school, we're talking about also right now, the preview,
which really is in the rethinking schools magazine. So if you go to rethinking schools.org to check
out the website, you can pull up the current issue. And there are some pieces in there that are,
as you were saying, Ty, are pulled from the book to kind of get people ready so that they can start
to get ready to order the book. And when it's going, so I want to read, though, from this,
and then I want to get your reactions to this, I want to show students what steady self-love
in the face of fear looks like, because we all face it. I want to teach my students that being
trans means continuing to live into our joy and express our full selves despite backlash.
A teacher in their full humanity and power can recognize the same in their students and demand
better from their education system that dehumanizes all of us. That's Ty Marshall right there.
Man, it comes, you know, powerful stuff, but joy, the word joy. Talk more about that whole idea
of claiming that joy, because I think so often, because it's a serious issue, because it does happen,
but the physical abuse, the bullying abuse, even to the point of the mental health toll of, you know,
being trans in this part, you know, so much of the exposure, when we quote, want to
delve into these issues, sadly, we talk about suicide and not joy. So how do you get people to move
into that joy? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. And one of the students, you know, in one of the classrooms
as we were writing this book, was like the only time I've ever gotten to study trans people in
school has been to look at suicide statistics, and that is often where that introduction happens,
like as, you know, in health class, it's like this difficult hard thing, right? And I feel like,
you know, there's a movement that I think, you know, we've learned from authors of color,
teachers of color, about like how do you pivot from like the character in the book is struggling,
right? The, you know, the black, the left, you know, whatever character is, is their whole identity
is struggle versus like they also are really good at talk or they are surrounded by love, right?
So that like casual diversity sort of shift, I think is is a huge part of that. And I think like,
you know, the humanity piece in that quote you read, like that's I think for me at least as a
teacher committed to justice, despite all that we've been through. I mean, I'm only my eighth year,
so I'm a, I'm a baby as far as like the fights and education, but you know, we see a lot of
rollbacks of, you know, what we're allowed to teach about and what are the constraints on our time.
And so ultimately, right, what we, what we can do that is really powerful is be in a room with
young people who are studying the world and want to change it and like feel like they are valued
and they belong there. There aren't many places like that anymore. So no, and so, you know, so,
you know, schools and communities that are interested in creating these environments that,
you know, promote steady self love and queer joy. What are your recommendations to somebody who's
listening to the show right now and saying, yeah, I don't, I don't want to talk about the horrible
statistics as my introduction into this topic. I want to talk about the joy and the humanity
let's say I would say your first thing is why you're going to say they should order the book.
Yes, please, please order the book. I mean, I do want to, I think there's such, there's a couple of
really, yeah, joyful and expansive like curriculum options. The science teacher who writes a
couple of articles, Sam Long is brilliant. And just, you know, it talks a lot about how like gender
expansiveness in the way you teach science. You know, it touches on like the way that gender
stereotypes are policing gender limits all of us, right? Like even as a cisgender person,
if you are constantly being critiqued about your gender expression, that's going to limit
how you move through the world, right? Really famous with, you know, recently in the Olympics,
the gold medalist boxer, the Algerian boxer, I mean, just write that restriction is going to
hurt everyone. So yeah, there's some wonderful science examples of like expansion and how we talk
about gender and the other piece like the resistance, the way we fight back against these laws.
I think is another one that can give people a lot of a sense of hope, right? Like,
we study resistance so we know how to do it. So
there. What in the world there it was. There's that
gesture reaction to the bell. Just, you know what that bell is, democracy and action. Just what
you got every day here on busted pencils, we take a minute to educate ourselves and remind
ourselves of core democratic values. Today, we're highlighting two democratic values, life and the
pursuit of happiness. And these are directly connected to ties work as an educator and with his
work with rethinking schools in this edition of transgender justice in classrooms.
It is absolutely essential for the life of LGBTQ us students that they are in welcoming
environments that they find places where they belong, people who accept them and love them and
support them as they are. And that goes beyond the bare subsistence of making sure that their bodies
are safe into places where their minds and their spirits are safe and they can experience joy.
So thank you so much, Ty, for being here. That's our democracy and action.
Just nice stuff there. It's busted pencils. It's fully-ledged education talk,
educated educators, talking education, our guest editor of the new book, Transgender Justice
in schools, rethinking schools. 855752442 is the number if you want to call and talk to us.
Ty, you're talking the focus on one of the chapters in the book.
Yeah, right now, tell a little bit more too. Give me another highlight coming from the book.
What can I hope for when this book arrives? You're not going to be able to cover everybody,
but let's talk a little bit about it. So what else?
Yeah, I think other nuggets that are so wonderful, there's a couple of really great
really powerful personal stories in the first chapter about, you know, trans teachers,
their experiences, and trans students kind of standing up and working to educate other
teachers, particularly, yeah, there's a great article from Mihail Daych about how their
GSA students ended up teaching the whole school about pronouns and how to kind of respect
their safety. And I feel like that is a outline for student power and kind of shifting
the culture of a school. So, let's check that one out.
That's okay. Boston pencils fully, a letted education talk, educated educators, talking
education. How long did it take you guys to put this together, Ty?
It took about a year and, you know, what I love about rethinking schools is it feels like it
always starts with like a sense of community. I know you were sharing about rethinking Columbus,
being your introductory point. And I think everything in school is perhaps because I'm based
here in Portland where a lot of that editing and stuff is happening. I think of it as like,
you know, we're gathered around a table, we're talking about our curriculum. And, you know,
I actually came to Linda with like, I'm struggling in my classroom and she was like, you know what?
I have a project for you. And I was like, all right. But it truly ended up being a real lifeline to
other really visionary trans teachers and kind of that sense of connectedness that, yeah, I really
needed. Yeah. So, and with that, and so you say Linda, Linda, Christianson is the co-editor
with you. And so just put that out there, co-editor of the book. When is the book? You kind of,
I think you said once, but you know, so right now I'm out there, I'm listening. What do I do?
How do I get it? Where do I go? Tell me more about it, Ty. Yes, yes, yes. So go online to
rethinking schools. You can order the book. We're also reaching out to unions to try to encourage
like folks to make a big order and do some study groups. I'll be kicking one off here and
or again with our local PAT to try to think about like, you know, we built all this incredible
power over the strike. And what, what, what, what do we want to do around protecting trans
teachers and students, even in a, you know, a district like ours where we do have a lot of protections.
You know, we still have to educate each other on those protections, make sure students know about
them and can keep each other safe. I think about the issue here, Ty, again, the backdrop
with the political movement that's happening that, you know, again, all of the anti-anti-anti-gay,
don't say gay, don't say, you know, bathrooms, all of this, is there something that, you know,
potentially, as we come up to this school year, you're, you know, we're leasing the book.
This is also, you know, a national election that we're going to be facing the, you know,
the reality here that could have an impact potentially. Is there an excitement or a potential to say,
this might be a moment to maybe peel back some of this oppression?
Yeah, I mean, I think that, yeah, it is a moment to be trying to engage people in a sense of hope,
right? And we haven't had a lot of that for a long time. And so I do think that I really believe in
like the smaller local examples that students can see of that power is going to engage them in,
you know, for example, wanting to vote and things like that. So yeah, if they are working on,
you know, challenging curriculum in their own school that they want to see changed, right? That's
like a little mini lesson in, you know, what it might look like to ask a politician to, you know,
consider legislation, right? So I guess I think it's like a mirror of the bigger fights we need to have.
And in that curriculum issue too, we bring that up too because to start, you know, kind of go,
I guess we're coming to a close kind of ending where we started. This whole idea of instructional time
that you introduced us to tie in 2020, which was, you know, look, tie Transgender Shore,
but you're a social studies teacher. And that's what you were hired to do is teach social studies.
And now 2024 Transgender Justice, the book coming out, rethinking schools. I mean,
now we're talking about instructional time in saying that issues of LGBTQ need to be put forward,
not as an aside, but how do we make real instructional time for that? Maybe that's the last question
for you. How do we make instructional time, Ty? Oh, man. I mean, it's, you're so right. It's a national
version of the same conversation we were having in 2020 and has been happening before that about
what's allowed in schools and what are we allowed to talk about? And I guess I would always come
back to like the more we can bring students identities into the school and make space for them,
the more powerful they're going to feel. And a lot of these issues, right, whether we're talking
about race, whether we're talking about gender, if we as the adult in the building aren't willing
to be vulnerable, be messy and try and make mistakes, then the students aren't going to feel that
same sense of safety. So whether it's your very first time, you know, asking students on a little
note card, what's your preferred pronoun or it's your first time, you know, acknowledging like,
hey, I'm a white teacher and I'm going to mess this up. But let's try to talk about, you know,
whatever it is, like those steps are incredibly important part of like reshaping the instructional
time of 24. Uh, well, our guests tonight was Thai, Marshall Jess, doing the snap snap snap
on that, uh, partnership with rethinking schools and the new book out coming out. We can order it
by going to rethinking schools, the website pre order transgender justice in schools. There's
right there's the link in the podcast that'll be there. And you can see right now if you're on
the Twitter X, the Facebook or the YouTube, you can see the cover right now. Thai is holding up for
all of us. Thai Marshall, thanks for busting pencils. Thanks for having me. Yeah. And there we go.
You know what, Jess, I'm excited. We're going to chop it up. Hold on.
Somewhere right below.
I wanna feel like I'm somewhere right below.
I wanna feel like I'm somewhere right below.
Somewhere right below.
That's a good pencil. Holy me. Let it education talk. Educated educators talking.
Education 8557524842 8557524842. If you want to call great guests for the first three parts
of the show, Thai Marshall editor, rethinking schools, transgender justice in schools,
go to rethinking schools, check out the website there. And then from there, you can order the book
and have it ready to go. Ha, LA Tom's on the phone though. LA Tom, what's happening, my friend?
What's going on? Well, as you know, I mean, we don't always agree with things that we talk about.
And that's how we educate ourselves and everything like that.
I grew up in a very small town of 2000 in the state of Wisconsin.
A gay kid that was in closet until I was 21 years old and had all the issues,
everything else that goes along with it. I'll tell you what, if we can just say
this student's like coach Waltz's wife did Gwen, that my classroom is a safe space for all people,
whether they're gay, straight, black, white, fat, thin, whatever it is,
you kids are all in this together and you need to respect each other instead of just picking out
as an example, transgender group. First off, 10% maybe of the population is trans. And if we start
like talking about trans without bringing it to a school board or parents ahead of time,
we are going to end up falling right into the right wing's trap. And we're going to end up honestly
arming more children than we are helping them. It's busted pencils fully. Let it education talk,
educated educators talking education. Yes, LA Tom there. He's got a point.
I hear LA Tom and I hear the concerns. And I think if we say that this is a safe space for
everyone, we can say who this is a safe space for. We can say that it is a safe space for people
who are cisgender and people who are not cisgender. This is a safe place for people
who are of any sexuality. This is a safe place for all people. And that doesn't diminish anything.
Right. What did we get into this language talk about the diminishing and things like that?
And man, I think just staying on with tie and going to go back to the simplicity, joy.
You know, and when you talk about inclusive diversity of who's there, that should be a joyful
space when you say, you know, what does a safe space? Who are we including?
I'm falling into the right wing's trap. I don't know, Jess. Right.
That doesn't speak to me. I think the statistic that Tom has brought up that
you know, approximately 10 percent of the population is trans. That's a huge percentage of the
population. That's a huge percentage of the population who deserves to feel safe and seen
and welcomed and joyful. And I don't think that there is a right wing trap here. I think that
people who do not want equality for all people are going to say that regardless.
Yeah. You know, and we're going through and talking, you know, more about just again,
the, the, the, the inclusiveness. I, you know, what I think right now, the white, the right wing
trap. I don't think there are traps working. I think right now, every time that they point out
their attack on diversity, their attack on equity, their attack on inclusion, their attack
on safe spaces, it's like that is gone right now. And people are saying like that pain,
that hatred, that anger, that dismissal of human beings that you guys are advocating, you are
advocating the exclusion of brothers, sisters, friends, neighbors, doctors, lawyers.
We don't do that type of work. This moment of hatred, filled rhetoric and policies that we have
now witnessed over the last few years. Maybe it's finally time that when people come out in this
kind of speaking where they're going to push against a guest like we just had time Marshall
talking about transgender justice. You know, it's time. Keith from Middleton on the phone.
What's happening, Keith? How are you doing, guys? It's the first time Colin talked to you guys.
I've been talking to other shows and so forth. I'm, I'm right on the board of a boomer. People
call me a boomer. I'm the boy at 65 so technically in the last year of the boomers. And I've got to
tell the young lady when it's the phone. I don't understand a lot of, you know, non-binary or I
understand trans. I understand what people are born and their, their bodies don't match their
chromosomes or sometimes they may have multiple sex organs. I mean, there are people
unfortunate children who are born with multiple sex organs and who decides which they are
assigned so to speak at that point. So whether I understand it or not doesn't matter and it
shouldn't matter to anybody. We're talking about children. I don't care if they have stutter. I don't
care if he has, if he's wearing braids, stunning legs because he can't walk without that or she.
I don't care if that kid has alopecia. Does that have a hair on their head? I don't care if that kid
decides and somebody else, does it want to be gay? It's all about accepting people as they are, right, Keith?
Thank you. And that's all that matters. We're talking about kids and by not doing these things.
So sorry. We're running out of time. We're coming down on the time. You know, and Keith,
thanks for the call though. And yeah, inclusion that way. Hey, just a reminder, two busted pencils.
We love this sponsored by Monaco Brewing Company. Go and check out the tap room in Madison right
out there by East High School. Grab a beer. Monaco Brewing Company. Making Wisconsin great again,
drinking one beer, making Wisconsin great again, one beer at a time.
And oh, months. Check out Monaco Brewing.com and
not what brewing company.com to see where you can buy their progressive beer.
Jess, busted pencils. Man, great show. Ty, rethinking schools. Thank you for coming.
Callers, Keith, L.A. Tom, man, loving it. Tomorrow night educators amplified teacher Joe Anna in the
house. Busted pencils. See you tomorrow.
Oh, show.
Oh, show.
Oh, no.
Oh, show.
Blah.
Oh.
Still, stop.
Stop.
Blah.