Transcript

Zipping Up the WPEN Summer Summit

Busted Pencils · Wed Jul 31, 2024

is busted pencils fully let it education talk here are your hosts doctor Tim

Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci educated educators talking education

there it is busted pencils fully let it education talk educated educators talking education

Wednesday night yes we are still live from the state street studio in Madison

no not Johnny tonight yes we told you we gave Johnny three days off so we're letting him

have three days off but it's me and Jess again yes Jess how are you Jess I'm a little tired

we have been working haven't we yeah yeah yes we have yeah what's the you know the WPEN

Wisconsin public education network their 10-year summit here in Madison last night all day

today got there early in the morning I actually yeah I had to have a cup of coffee in here you

heard like six cups of coffee to know this I'm a little concerned this could be a problem later

tonight when I'm like why can't I sleep well I tell you what though just it was great though last

night getting to take you and Aaron to the Monoc we're brewery tap room in Madison yes you know

because the best thing busted pencils is sponsored by the Monoc we're brewing company tap room

with Monoc we're brewing company they are awesome public school supporters they sued the state

of Wisconsin to try to end the voucher program they are making Wisconsin great again one beer at a

time check out Monoc we're brewing company dot com you can get their beer their swag everything

there and Kirk thank you for hosting Jess Aaron and me last night and Jess you got to see me have

you know partake in a rare thing which was I had a half a I had a half a beer you you had a full

beer yeah yeah I don't know if you noticed I left about a quarter yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

sure yeah yeah but it's busted pencils it's fully let's go beer though it is good beer it's a great

place and we love that they are our sponsor for the show eight five five seven five two four eight

four two is the number if you would like to give us a call jump in on the show so Johnny's not here

we're at the Wisconsin public education network we're at the summit we're talking to all kind of

people and we run into an old friend he's been on the show probably about five or six years ago

but welcome back to busted pencils bird zipper bird what's happening my friend it's good to see

you it's good to be here we appreciate you man that's a verse that event is awesome it was great

it was fabulous it was hopeful it was informative it was dynamic yeah the whole idea you know

10 years though too I didn't realize that the Wisconsin public education network had been in operation

all that time great sessions lots of great speakers your thought though you know just

right away you know any quick standout you know just their focus their focus is if you support

public education then you got to fund it yeah and you got to fund it fully and no kid who's ever

educated without enough money to be invested in that good education good public education so I'm

going to put you on the spot yeah so one of the things we've been doing you know lately since the

Harris change of which we've all acknowledged is so exciting and makes us feel empowered you know

we're talking from public education voters though this decision to go for a vice presidential pick

and the question of if you're a public education voter is there a vice presidential potential

nominee that makes more sense or are there ones that don't and you yeah your thoughts you know I

don't have the names okay but I think that's a critical question you know governors for example

that have supported voters and has supported some diverting public education dollars to the

private schools I would have I would okay feel bad about that so yeah so what we've been saying

on busted pencils so you know the short list we keep hearing is Bashir waltz and Shapiro is

Bashir still on that list I thought he was still on the list I know it's getting pretty narrow now

down to kind of like Shapiro waltz it seems like that they're the top two I don't know just maybe

here we'll do the the first thing look that up for me just and see if you okay no no no but

Shapiro the governor from Pennsylvania my original home state he is a voucher supporter and we've

been saying I think that should take him out of the consideration why would you want to alienate

public education voters exactly okay when especially when you've got other choices that are

yeah because and we keep hearing this though too that the but but Shapiro brings you know

Pennsylvania massive electoral votes and can you public education people maybe look the other way

we they always say that don't they I know right you know it's and and I think there's some good

research that says vice presidential candidates do not necessarily bring their home states

right but a good vice president candidate can win over various people and I think this is important

yeah because we we've been saying it's just like well especially when you think now too if it's

really coming down to waltz what a great vice presidential pick because here you get fourth grade

teacher rural Minnesota union leader you know sharp not weird not weird and then let's let's go

back to another historical period Obama's education secretary disaster yeah right and people are

like does it Matt well so now that's the other twist though because we had a caller call in and say

Tim Jess Johnny maybe you guys shouldn't worry so much about the vice president and who is the

Harris campaign looking at for secretary of education and if we knew that would that change our

mind and saying okay the vice president pick doesn't matter because we know this is the secretary

of education your thoughts on that calculus and I think who you pick for your first pick

sends a message about who your next picks will be hmm so I think um what's okay to buy you

what what what what is possible for you to support and and I think you want your first pick to be

good I do too and and to keep the excitement going oh yeah you know and I said so we're we're at

the 10 year summit of of all of the you know the entire state of Wisconsin every public education

supporter there and I got to see say that you know if that group found out or heard during today

that Shapiro was going to be the vice presidential nominee I got to think that that group will be

very disappointed today well you know and I think the excitement and and the dynamism the 10,000

people at yesterday's rally for example for vice president Harris you know you don't want to take

air out of that movement you've got 98 more days to go and you'd take the air out of the movement

with a pro voucher supporter 855 7524842 is the number if you want to jump in give us a call

the guest Madison teachers incorporated retired retired retired teacher school counselor school

counselor but were a classroom teacher too um worked in the classrooms with teachers like okay

you know how many years 30 years 30 years yeah although we sat around the other night asking who

had the most seniority well last night at the event and I was clearly out of the running because

there was like 43 years and 37 years and 38 years that made you feel good I feel like I should go

back and do the book 12 more years well you're like okay I'm not as old as I feel there are people

older than me that might be true it is it's frightening that you just said that though too with

the 30 years because I I don't feel like I've been in this business for 33 years but I have my

first teaching job was in 1990 and you keep running the students who were like yes in the 40s

wait a minute you know because I'm like I that was yesterday truly that was last month

yeah I think I think time is a percentage of our life yeah so in the first five years of

our life a year is 20% of your life we're today it's like one so yeah we we are there oh check

this out though two got a new number 608 610 1126 608 610 1126 if you're out there trying to call

try that number you will definitely get in on that number sorry for giving out you know we're moving

studios we said this is civic media one of the ways you can avoid the part of this so to download

the civic media app bird I don't know if you did it although I gotta say I'm not sure your phone

does apps the flip phone doesn't do apps as well you you are correct but everybody else can do it okay

but yeah check it download the civic media app that way you can always have busted pencils we

always point this out to our listeners in Finland if they didn't have the busted pencils app they

couldn't or the civic media app they couldn't listen yes but we have two listeners in Finland I

love that and and I've always admired your education approach because I think we have to be

relentless and dedicated and courageous in defending public education it's the basis of democracy it's

our democracy and you say you know I've been thinking about this right the all these talks about

indoctrination you know and and it's just like okay indoctrinated you into the bill of rights

and yeah it's like wait so if we're going to indoctrinate you in democracy you got a problem with

that exactly exactly like like really you got a problem with democracy indoctrination

yeah that's what we try to do here though it is you know busted pencils fully let it education

talk educated educators talking education and mostly you know bird we're trying to get the message

out to my neighbor my neighbor who actually does like public schools but here's the misinformation

here's the disinformation gets confused votes for policies that they didn't know was going to

actually undermine their public schools because so much of the rhetoric comes across as it starts

to sound like common sense you know failing schools well they must not be talking about my failing

school so they're talking about the school down there so we've said we always are trying to bring

this to you know yes we know teachers we know public school supporters love busted pencils

what I want to do though too is get that person out there right now who's driving home and going

like wait a minute I think with Bert and Tim we're talking about that makes sense to me I love

democracy exactly and the idea that every single person in this country has the right to enter a

public school to be a student in a full full complete education think you know it's just like damn

why is this radical to say that every child deserves and in fact should be entitled to

not just an adequate education in fact that was one of the words that was used today we're going

to talk about that you know again the Wisconsin Public Education Network 10-year summit

bird zipper or Jess was there Tim was there hanging out talking all kinds of great people

lots of great sessions we're going to talk about some of those sessions 608 610 1126 is the number

if you want to call in them get on the show hey also if you're following us on Facebook right now

you can see you can see probably two of the most incredibly awesome looking guys that you've

probably ever seen on you're following on X you can see us on the the civic media X account

and YouTube yes right there you don't have to call you could text in your question if you're one

of those people this is I don't like to hear my voice on the radio it is kind of weird I took

me a while to get used to hearing what the heck is happening our guests are right now bird zipper

Madison teachers incorporated retired talking about what happened today at the Wisconsin Public

Education Network conference public education supporters all over busted pencils fully

let it education talk when we get back bird got a question for you okay I'll try to have an answer

yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna try to stump you so stay tuned for more bird zipper

I you guys love busted pencils music how about that bird you know if you can say you know

we're trying to bring it man you know you got it hey I like mpr but you know what that's not

what we are we are busted pencils fully let it education talk we are educated educators talking

education and we are absolutely you know indoctrinators of democracy that's right here and civic rights

and bill of rights and other things I just think about that it's like you know yeah we talked about

that it's like if you're against democracy okay then maybe you do have a beef with us I you

know I'll give you that but do you really want me to stop advocating democracy like that fair

discussion of ideas and voting and things like that it's crazy there's an insanity there that I

think just kind of takes us away from what we're supposed to be doing it is busted pencils and we are

here with our guest bird zipper our Jess and Tim all three of us we have been at the Wisconsin

public education network 10 years summit attending sessions Jess yes you were at a session right

away this morning what do you think what was it about give us your take okay so the first session

that I went to today was on equity and excellence and this is something that we got into yesterday

when we had dr. Joe gothard on we posed this question to him like is there potentially sort of

this conflict between equity and excellence because it doesn't seem like there should be

and a lot of people um certain ends of a spectrum leaning maybe towards the right sometimes

we'll be like oh yeah equity that's that's great no but what about test scores what about what

kids learning their their common core curriculum and it's like well you can do all of that you can

do all of that and this presentation was so much about how you can find the gifts that each child

has it's not that some students are gifted and talented and other students have no gifts and no

talents every child has gifts and talents and finding that gift finding that talent fostering it

nurturing it and helping it bloom and what I really loved one of the presenters is an astronaut

no like an astronaut I mean she hasn't been to the international space station but she did fly

in zero G nice with a science experiment that was designed with her class we actually got an

interview with her that will be airing either on Friday or on Monday nice super super exciting and

just it was really good energy just to to sit and talk about every child's excellence and on the

other end of the spectrum Tim I hear that your first session that you went to was not about excellence

it was not about excellence bird was your Wisconsin state reading association was talking about

science of reading science of reading and I got to say I'm going to hold this because we got some

great guests are going to come on and do a whole show but yeah and we you know we've busted pencils

we have taken this on multiple times you know this quote science of reading first of all it's not

science the science of reading is a marketing scheme right and it truly is a push to buy materials

that are quote aligned with the science of reading and there's been a lot of kind of this going

it's like well what can you teach what can't you teach when it comes to the teaching of reading

I've always been in the camp that I do whatever it takes to help that kid learn to read yes

if that's letter recognition then we're going to do letter recognition if that's jumping into a book

already because they're coming in reading already they're getting a book I as the teacher make that

determination with the professional knowledge that I have so that that's kind of that's science

so you know here in Wisconsin though act 20 is what it's called which is this mandate which we see

going across all of the states in the country in my home state now where I'm at in Ohio truly a

draconian effort on the science of reading I got to say the one bright spot here in Wisconsin that

I found out was that there is a little bit of leeway in act 20 to not use every prescribed

curriculum only did they give you a warning before they send you straight to jail yeah you get a

little bit of a warning based and I was I stood up in in my session and said I'm like you guys

got to understand I mean this is horrendous but let me tell you how horrendous it is in was in

in Ohio if you are not using state approved curriculum you can lose your teaching license

no kidding seriously wow I mean and and that is is like the you know that's the insanity

LA Thompson on the phone he sure is all right LA Tom what's happening my friend

say to him hey Tom are you are you on the air I'm sorry yeah yeah and what's happening you're

on the air too okay I apologize um first off we the people ultimately I would government

and we must never forget that just like there's just like that you know a union is democracy

in the workplace and we need to remember that absolutely again I just want to caution everybody

about whether it is Josh Shapiro or whoever um let's not demonize let's push because I was a

different and the thing is whether it is a Kamala Harris administration that vice president is

going to have to go along with what the president is saying it's her agenda it's not here

now I'm I'm the person that said Tim Walls would be very very good at the Department of

Education yes but again I think very very simply that we need it to be educating people each

and every day about the fact of how dangerous it is to vote for a third party in this country at the

time with project 2025 and we really need that discussion about this no LA Tom I mean when you're

you're talking about that it said the stakes so Burton this is the thing you're so high right it's

absolutely like would you know so does the vice presidential pick of Kamala Harris send you

to not vote and then potentially go well you know it's like then the other choices Donald Trump

exactly exactly you know so not voting is a vote for Donald Trump absolutely yeah and so I know

so LA Tom we love this so LA Tom is saying we want to push and so we've been saying well we're

trying to do here at the hair for the Harris campaign because we know they listen to busted pencils

all the time because if they want public education you know talk they're going to come to this show

because where else would you go we're saying okay we want to push the Harris campaign to consider

the possibility that maybe Josh Shapiro isn't the best choice given that you have a Tim Waltz exactly

and and I think anyway you go no it's you know or or an Andy Bashir right they're there a Mark Kelly

right I think too often we are we elect people and then we don't push them and then we look back

it's like well that didn't didn't go well so I think pushing from the beginning and of course

supporting you because fascism or or Harris right I mean that's the other part you're gonna say

okay wait the choice is oh my goodness that's a choice you know the choice is democracy

or not or not you know see it is busted pencils fully led at education talk the number 608

6101126 or special guests tonight bird zipper Madison teachers incorporated retired school

counselor talking Wisconsin public education network 10 year summit got a lot more to talk about

yeah can't wait in fact we're gonna come back and say Bert what was your favorite session

more when we get back

oh yeah you know it busted pencils Bart's got that look I love this right yeah busted pencils

fully let it education talk educated educators talking education sharing a lot of reflection

on the Wisconsin public education network 10 year summit you know the sessions we were at

jazz grade session so I talked about my favorite session and we say we got to come back

burp you know you you let a session but was that your favorite session or was there a session that

was that stood out I liked all three sessions including my own okay so we did a voucher one yeah

school finance one not the reality of school finance in Wisconsin and then we did our act 10

and the effects of act 10 in the current court case yeah and come on gotta have a favorite

you know I like them all okay I hate to say that I hate to say that yeah sorry you're not

weaseling out you're not gonna get weird on us tonight right now but there's one of those great

conferences where you know you didn't go to two count three workshops and two were good and one

was like disappointing none of them were disappointing no and I think when you you see something

like this like just when I were looking out you know getting ready for the conference planning

our our mode of attack and you're looking out there's this session there's this I want to go to

that one I want to go to that one I want to go to that I can't go to all of them right you know

because you like you said and and that again to the testament to the leadership of the Wisconsin

public education that worked to put together such an just exciting group of people to hear

that you truly had to go like okay if I go to this one I'm not going to hear this one great

and you got to make a decision but that's what it's like when you have a packed house of rock stars

well and the workshops were packed with people who were really thoughtful and we're asking great

questions yeah so it was good all the way around and the two plenary sessions were really special

um yeah what do you think of Jennifer Berkshire she's the the the education wars she was good yeah

she was good she was on that panel yeah with the two other people yeah and all three of them are

great they're awesome and have you had her on the radio Jess Jess got a spot interview with her right

chest and yep and I actually know Jennifer Berkshire for you know she actually has a really cool

podcast called um have you heard yes and you know not the the same as best the pencils we do a

little bit different but I mean she's a gifted writer um we got a spot interview but we did

also get a commitment from her that we're gonna have a full episode with her on the show especially

we talk about I mean the book the education where she really lays out what's at stake and people

you know I get this all the time he's going like is aren't you being over dramatic

destroying public education do you really think that that's what they're going to do and I'm like

yes yes yes no there's no over dramatizing you don't take out all the resources and just leave

this shelf a thing behind that's putters along and somehow provides minimal resources to people

yeah it's and it's foundation to society it's a sacred institution that is a foundation for a

democracy where everyone gets full access to a full education and we have a commitment to fund it

not just fund it but invest in it one the thing too is it's like so and we fully realize that it

hasn't been perfect right oh yeah oh yeah it has it has failed students and we hear from that

in in families and communities and but it still is the only one committed to right all children

everybody all children and you talk about that by constitutional fear yes and that truly is you

say yes academic achievement is the goal you know learning to read and write learning to do math

that is the goal of public education but more importantly at try to point out the people it's

that inclusive range where diverse peoples come together to learn to be in community with each

other in other words democracy and where else does that happen in our lives there is no other

institution that I can think of right except maybe the highway and then we're all in our separate

cars but where else is everybody together literally everybody right in fact it's the law it's the

law and and I think we have to reclaim the word right we have the right to a full complete public

education each and every one of us and and that's actually one of the ones so so I I went to a

session and you know and talk about that is is that this word adequate came up because constitutionally

and a lot of state constitutions Wisconsin is one of them that actually says that you know all

children are required entitled to an adequately funded education 1848 right you know and the

the kind of trick with adequate is is that if you ever ask the parent is your goal to get your

child an adequate education they're like no no it's a great education but when we take adequate

though and then you point out to people going we haven't even funded adequate yet

and so thinking about that and going so what is this constitutional guarantee towards an adequate

education we haven't met that yet and also something is not inadequate but sorry about that

you didn't you weren't ready for the bell bird no this is our democracy in

all right time this is where I warned them but I didn't tell them exactly one didn't don't

when it was coming just is democracy in action what do you got for us today's democracy in action

is unsurprisingly about the Wisconsin public education networks annual summit

today we have heard so much about diversity and we have heard so much about common good

I went around with a recorder and I kept asking people what's the purpose of public education

what's the purpose of public education and almost every single person said it's about the common

good it is about the right of every American whether they are a citizen or not to have a high

quality education and that public education is where we come together exactly what you

were just saying that this is a place where everyone with everything that they bring with them

every part of their identity every part of who they are comes together with a whole bunch of

other people as they are so the good that's right the core democratic values that we are highlighting

today are diversity and common good thank you democracy in action yeah every day but when you

hear that bell go off we do a democracy and that was a beautiful one Jess thank you thanks I thought

the blolo was especially good well you know I thought you did that better than most yeah the last

time I tried to do blolo it didn't actually that one sounded pretty good though I kind of think

how about that for some reason I say it's must the pencils fully lead in education talk it is not

blah blah blah it is educated educators talking education our guest bird zipperer Madison teachers

incorporated retired school counselor the number 608 610 1126 608 610 1126 you can call in if you're

watching us on facebook if you're watching us on x or truly come on let's call it twitter the way

it's supposed to be you can send us a text to text in your question text in your comment we want to

know public education one of the other sessions birth that I went to you know this is the other one

statistics damned lies statistics I can't well I can't remember the exact thing but you know

lies damned lies and school of school and yeah and you're sitting there going it's just like

whenever you hear or hear somebody saying but school choice works they typically bring with

them some kind of a bar graph that shows how awesome school valve my bar graph's bigger than your

bar you know and the session I was at to Chris sildanya he's been on the show multiple times he's

awesome you know great you know university Wisconsin Madison professor just kind of laid out and

said sorry when they bring out the bar graph it might be a statistic but it's a damned lie bingo

and so how you bring those together it's like wait they've got a bar graph it must be true no

statistics are statistics but they're not necessarily true and like you said I can kind of create

all kinds of statistics that look like they're trying to say something yeah but yeah when it comes

to you know does do vouchers improve academic achievement by the students that take them the

answers now after 35 plus years no they don't they don't right which is why though you hear

vouchers now too in their latest rendition the voucher supporters they don't even make the case

anymore that it's about a better education it's a parents right now they've changed it yep yeah

it's parents right because they don't have the statistics the damn lies to go anymore because

they're their lies it doesn't stop them from still trying to throw out there the lies that

school choice leads to a better education it doesn't but now though truly this whole idea going

it's a parents right and it's like well partially it is a parents right to insist that the

state live up to the constitutional amendment that says as we pointed out in Wisconsin and fully

funded adequate education that's your right that's a parents right you don't have the right to ask

me the taxpayer to give you tax money to send your child to a private school exactly you have the

right to send your child to a private school on your dime bingo why is that so hard for people to get

good question it's a really good I think you make people afraid fear and hate are kind of the

the two main ingredients here those are powerful factors they are I mean you're afraid for your

children in the school that you're hearing all these terrible things about and then we've

up some hate of those people that are those people absolutely you know and you say the fear

and truly you know the segregation but the session two points that out multiple times guess

what vouchers comes out of the brown versus board of education from people who said I'm not

sending my kids to school with those kids you know at that time those are African-American kids

absolutely you know the state's going to give me money to send my kids to a private school

suddenly the private academies yeah yeah and so people are going like no vouchers does not do not have

their history and roots in failed public schools they have their history and roots in segregation

and racism exactly sorry let's get that right 608 610 1126 is the number you want to challenge me

on that too you're always welcome to call in I know there's a couple of people out there gone

but kids in failing schools shouldn't have to stay in failing schools and I would say on that one

you're right so then let's fund their school fully fully so that we can at least fund them to the

adequacy levels that the state constitution guarantees in that right to a public education

bird exactly and and I think the adequate word is that it's not inadequate no no so was it inadequate

no okay no no and no and and and even that you know you really point this out as it crystal

down you love the way he kind of lays this out and going it's like guess what you know the state

legislature in Wisconsin has not lived up to the constitutional requirement it just haven't

and so when somebody says this theft failing public school is just to go okay it's a defunded

bingo public school that was put on the chopping block intentionally and in fact if we

quote had a failing public school why are we not directing resources at that school to quote pull

it out of failing I hate the whole word of failing but is it a challenge are do certain students

in certain populations in certain communities have challenges yes and guess what though no

one's ever going to address that issue because guess what the number one challenge is it's poverty

right and and when we have a failing highway we fix the highway yeah yeah but you know a bit poverty

you know well we don't want to fix poverty because if those kids learn to read and do math and

pull themselves up by the bootstraps they'll get out of poverty it's like you know what that's a nice

saying but it just doesn't work because anybody says you know when you say well what's happening

guess what sorry but when you give a kid food when you give them health care and you give them shelter

their academic achievement scores go up bingo holy crap who would have thought there's not an

achievement camp there's an opportunity it's an opportunity gap and you say yeah dr. Joe gothard

who's going to be the new superintendent here in Madison school district he just started he

and he reminded us that last night did again to hold true to realizing that look equity isn't just

some type of wishy washy thing but if we're really going to go after equity we're going to start to

address those opportunity gaps and I'm sorry you know so the state legislature isn't even funding

the academics the way it should be adequately but come on man it's busted pencils it's fully

letted education talk I cannot believe we're almost oh jeez whoa one more coming back 608 610

1126 hey you got one more chance be great to hear from you give us a call

we're doing it but the face inside is right but I need my skin

yeah there it is those seven dust schools out for summer a bird I don't know if you recognize that

song but that's a remake of Alice Cooper no way schools out for summer oh man this is how we

end every show those schools out for summer we come into this band called seven dust okay did this

obviously a metal version right can hear that you know but that's what we did that's the other part

of it when you're listening to busted pencils you get great education public education democracy

talk from educated education talk education but you get the best music around the best bumper

music just thank you so much for doing that all the time my joy and pleasure you're a genius you

are bringing that in my tanks educated educators talking education busted pencils fully letted

education talk the numbers 608 610 1126 our guest bird zipper Madison teachers incorporated

retired school counselor Jess Tim Bert all just spent the day at the Wisconsin public education

network 10 years summit all the educated educated educators there's a lot of education talking

going on there's a lot of people there there were yeah you know and you say it's like because

this was the entire state of Wisconsin you know and so I talked to a person you know maybe this

is what you take you know favorite person I talked to I talked to a person who first of all did

the well I'm just to stay at home mom and it's like stop it right there because what a ridiculous

thing my wife did no such thing as Josh no such thing but she's out in southwestern Wisconsin rural

kick a poo right and guess what she's doing she's rallying her neighbors to support the local public

schools and she made the trip to Madison to show that she's a public school supporter we're actually

just got her name got a number we're gonna have her on the show to come in and talk about saying

and we're first thing is is no you're not just the just no just nothing you are a public education

advocate and supporter which makes you a democracy warrior makes you a democracy warrior an

indoctrinated of democracy we were claiming that word I was thinking about it just before the show

I'm like okay is that pushing the boundaries to say that we are the indoctrinated of democracy

yeah sure about that you know why not you know one of the other things when Johnny my coast is on

broke we said that you know blue collar scholars yep we try to come at this and go like sorry

you know that's just who we are Johnny grew up in Detroit I grew up in Pittsburgh you know sorry

we're just blue collar scholars you know kind of just chopping it up saying what's going on

and we're public education foundation of democracy supporters and yeah if you if you're

quote against the indoctrination of democracy you might not like our show right but I'm not gonna

apologize for having a pro public education show because it's a pro democracy show sorry that's

what it is people are like you do a show like on like bulletin boards and stuff like that or

something the number of people today who are like oh you've got a you've got a radio show about

it like NPR and just like NPR and NPR and NPR listeners no disrespect no respect or just not them now

we're just not them and NPR you do great work the way you do we didn't need another NPR right we

needed busted pencils and Tim and Jess and bird and Johnny and the guest we've had Johnny be

back soon I mean we have had you know Matt Damon's mom regular appearance on the show did you know that

it wow and you know who she lived next door to Howard Zen I love that we've actually interviewed her

where she's really talked about that growing up and in fact how Matt Damon maybe you know through

something in the yard one time and got yelled at by Howard Zen I haven't heard that sorry I have

to tell you that one but but actually though she really talks very powerfully about you know growing

up you know with with Howard Zen being their next door neighbor and in fact you know just she

really loved that but back to the science of reading one of the reasons though we also you know

we have my segment every month with Matt Damon's mom what Matt Damon's mom say she came on last

month to talk about science of reading because this three queuing method which has been this is

and this is outlawed in Wisconsin so it's outlawed everywhere the idea that you might

Bert when I'm looking at a book in your reading words and you might not get that word I say

Bert look at the picture all right that's a cue that's right that's illegal now no pictures no

pit no no clues no no context no context allowed and no meaning no and and Dr. Nancy Carlson

Paige Matt Damon's mom was like like I was part of the original research that helped create

the three queuing method because guess what we give people multiple tools to learn to read and it

helps learn to read so this is the craziness where it's like like we've outlawed

we've outlawed a teacher's ability to say Bert look at the picture the science of making money

from reading it's like yes completely now who's gonna police that though too my teacher told me

to look at the picture today bomb oh let's get them written up we gotta get them on the science of

reading police this is ridiculous oh man 608 610 1126 is the number to call if you want to

join us they said our guest great guest to come in birds they were of Madison teachers incorporated

school counselor retired right now but Bert you know again really appreciate you coming into talk

it's really it's a delight to be with you today it was so good to see you too because I haven't

I hadn't seen you it's been a few years yeah you know and I said because yeah I you know for

listening going like yeah I used to live in Wisconsin you did some great work at a local

university here I was I was the dean of school of education at Edgewood College in Madison you know

and um not there now but um you did great work thank you really appreciate it and I got to meet

great people like you when I was here so when I ran into you at the conference I was like

yes oh my god it's Tim and then I'm like I read that first person the Tim pointed out to me by the way

we got there and I was like it was like and and and Jess I got to show because Bert I'm like I

got a producer yeah Tim kept showing me off I'm on real radio I'm like holy crap I got a real

producer I'm like remember how you used to call you and bug you to be on the show and then you know

like that I've got someone my job now and she's good and she's much better than me who used to

just call them bug people but I mean even that though too just pointing out civic media which is

now where busted pencils is you know and again for anybody listening out there yeah it is across

the entire state of Wisconsin wherever you can get a radio signal you can get it speaking of

that man Bert here it is check it out Bert I would tell you right now you want something to do

go to an aqua brewing company they are a huge sponsor of busted pencils love them I appreciate them

several of their beers in my refrigerator Bert Zipra Tim thank you so much thank you so much for

the joy of the pencils join us tomorrow we're on this together

you