This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk.
Here are your hosts, Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,
educated educators talking education.
Busted pencils, fully-ledded education talk,
educated educators talking education.
Thursday night, we are still on a huge
kind of excitement flowing as we've transitioned.
Uncle Joe, Grandpa Joe, whatever you want to say.
President Biden, the patriot that he is,
put forth the opportunity to allow that torch to be carried
by someone else right now.
It looks like it's going to be Kamala Harris.
We've got a lot to talk about in that side because,
man, when it comes to really talking about public education
and what we're up against right now,
we've got a lot to talk about.
Johnny Lupinacci, how are you doing, my friend?
Man, I'm doing great, Tim.
It's great, great to be here, great to be like you said,
man, we're on this bender of excitement,
finally, from the Democratic Party,
and it's long overdue.
Yeah, it is.
But hey, we're here riding that wave,
figuratively with the politics
and literally with the family on vacation on the beach.
But, man, I would be beside myself
to not be able to join you and Justin talk
about these things because as they're unfold
and man, they are exciting and they are unfolding
and really exciting stuff.
We're going to get to today from a recent guest,
absolutely related to this conversation.
But before we get too far into any of this, Tim,
then I got to say a shout out to our friends
at Monaco Brewing Company,
because Busted Pens is a sponsor
by the Monaco Brewing Company.
Those folks are big time advocates for public schools,
in Wisconsin, and are right there with us, Tim.
They're connecting strong public education
to a strong democracy.
They know it's important.
Our public schools matter.
Monaco Brewing Company is making Wisconsin great again,
one beer at a time.
Check out Monaco Brewing Company dot com
to see where you can buy their progressive beer.
Nice, it's definitely go get one of those beers
and Johnny, check it out, Civic Media app.
I know you've got it downloaded.
I know everybody out there,
but just a reminder for anybody out there,
if you haven't grabbed it, go grab that Civic Media app
because it guarantees that where you are,
if you have a cell signal,
I can't say guarantees everywhere because I'm telling you
some of the back roads around my house,
you can't guarantee anything other than the possibility
that you could be stranded out here for years
and no one would know about you.
However, the Civic Media app there it is,
Johnny, for people watching,
and we'll talk about, if you're watching,
download that, you can make sure that that way
you have all of your busted pencils content,
all of the time live,
and any of the other Civic Media shows that you love
to watch and listen to, speaking of Johnny too,
you could check out, as you said,
if you like looking at eye candy,
then watch us, come on.
I think you're hinting at the fact
him that every episode of busted pencils
has what we like to call bonus content.
Credit just for that great,
great naming of what happens behind the scenes,
catch behind the scenes discussions,
our jokes, of course, our sweet faces.
By watching the stream,
busted pencils on Facebook, Civic Media,
or busted pencils, YouTube,
Civic Media, or busted pencils,
or on X through Civic Media.
X, X, I just, come on, you know,
I saw one of these polls on X the other day,
and I fell for it.
It was a fake Elon Musk poll,
but he was asking,
should I change it back to Twitter, yes or no?
Absolutely.
The answer is yes, Elon.
Twitter is a marketing genius.
I mean, you have things called tweets.
You got a little bird on the phone.
I mean, everything about it worked really well.
It was a whole thing,
but of course,
take something good.
You got to make it, you know,
something else.
A little humility would allow him,
though, kind of like President Biden,
you know, step up and say,
you know what,
I made a mistake,
or I'm going to do with something,
I'm going with Twitter too much,
too much,
too much,
speaking of that,
Johnny,
if you got a chance last night,
President Biden,
11 minutes,
it's all he had,
11 minutes,
not,
not 93 minutes,
like that other guy.
I mean, we were the opening act
on some media for the President of the United States.
So you think I wasn't hanging around with my Civic Media app.
I even streamed it through the smart speakers,
you know,
out to the beach where we are having a little family summer vacation,
but everybody listened to the President
from the Oval Office
through the Civic Media app on the smart speakers.
It worked.
It was fantastic.
Well, and there he was too.
Very humble.
Even choked up to the points,
you know, very intimate setting,
but just let us know all of his accomplishments.
And then, though,
most importantly for me,
what's at stake in November here,
and then throwing that support to
what looks like is going to be the presumptive nominee,
Kamala Harris.
You know,
I, again,
got applied President Biden,
applied President Biden,
not applied,
applied President Biden.
And now, though,
at this point,
I am, you know,
because Jess was like,
where we're going to go on the show tonight.
And I was like, you know what?
I don't want to go with Biden anymore at this point.
Now, he did his duty.
He's moved on.
I'm so excited.
Well,
okay, we're giving him cheers.
He got our democracy in action award,
President Biden.
Thank you.
But now,
man,
the excitement around Kamala Harris,
and all of what's possibly coming forward,
or not what possibly,
what is coming forward,
how we imagine,
how we can move through,
what we're going to think about,
how we're going to continue this excitement.
It's busted pencils,
fully-ledged education talk.
We're educated educators,
talking education,
the numbers,
eight, five,
seven, five,
seven, five,
two,
four, eight,
four, two.
Oh,
Johnny,
man,
I'm out of breath.
You're doing,
there's a lot,
there's a lot,
there's a lot of good stuff to be talking about.
Tim,
we got it.
We got to do some condition,
though,
because usually you can,
you can let it rip for a little bit longer than that.
Take a deep breath
and get your energy back,
go and get it going,
because we got lots to talk about.
Tim,
some of the things
that I'm most interested in right now,
in this moment,
and I'm with you,
it's exciting.
I had no idea,
even though we were talking about these possible changes
and the need for them,
I really had no idea
how energizing,
it would be for so many people.
I mean,
everywhere I go,
the buzz is just kind of out there,
like, hey,
there's stuff happening.
I think I just read a recent update
that there's like a 1% difference,
between the Trump ticket,
right,
and a Harris ticket,
and I mean,
that's pretty massive
for just a few days turn around.
And so,
you know,
where do we go from there?
And I liked the last show,
Tim,
you had mentioned
you had been doing some reading,
and I know Jess is always on this,
because Jess produced her,
Jess,
if our listeners don't know,
that's kind of a background in this,
is like,
even though,
like she'll say,
her school focus is more towards neuroscience,
right,
and psychology,
and all these things,
Jess correct me,
I know I'm wrong,
health sciences
and science background,
but you also have quite,
uh,
uh, interesting backstory
of Polly Psi.
We'll let Jess share.
Yeah.
so Jess has also been digging around
in the excitement too,
and both of you have been talking about,
and we've been in our texts back and forth.
We've been talking about
possible voice presidents,
and you had mentioned,
and I loved this,
Jess reminded us last show,
so did,
so did teacher Halley.
Like, we are excited about,
when you elect a president,
you're electing a whole administration,
you're, you're,
you're at the opportunity
to really make a choice,
on what you want the future to be.
And so you both had been,
kind of teasing out some of the vice president,
possible,
oh yeah, right?
And I loved where you were both going with that last show.
So, you know,
I'm hoping that we can dig into it a little bit more.
You both can inform me,
as listeners,
no, I've been on vacation,
I've been reading,
I've been keeping up,
you've been regulating,
but you've been regulating,
but certainly not to the level,
right, that both Jess and Tim have.
So, we're going to just kind of tease through some things,
and then listener,
we're going to,
we're going to make a connection to a recent guest,
who I thought inspired me before all this shift.
I mean,
we had the AFT president,
Randy Winegarten on here,
and she inspired me,
as union presidents are supposed to do,
they're supposed to be,
inspiring and unifying,
well, she sure is,
but she had some awesome stuff to say today,
so we'll get to that too.
Get to that in LA, Tom, man.
He's been calling us right off the top of the hour,
all the last few days.
LA, Tom, you got some advice for us.
LA, Tom, what's happening in our friend?
Yeah, guys,
I got to just kind of push back a little bit on last night's show,
the teacher Joanna and teacher Halley.
You know,
when Connoah Harris first spoke,
and West Alice,
she was introduced by a teacher.
She said that teachers are the,
most underpaid profession,
and the most important profession.
She also is somebody
that just strongly believes in public education,
and I think that we really need to learn
as Democrats,
as progressives,
as democracy warriors.
There is a difference
between demonizing someone
and pushing someone.
And I really would like this to be an ongoing conversation,
because we're really, really good at demonizing our own people.
But we're not very good at pushing them,
where we actually get a group together like AFT,
and we actually push them to go somewhere,
not demonize them,
where it actually ends up hurting the whole total cause.
Yeah, L.A. Tom,
man, he's sitting there right there,
and I would say,
I don't know if it needs a defense,
but teachers are Halley and teacher Joanna.
I would put them in the pushing category
of where they were going last night,
because when it comes to,
we said to the contrast of the other party,
there's no,
there's nothing to talk about there,
but when it comes to public education,
and I think you're right, L.A. Tom,
and what Johnny's talking about,
when we start getting into
who are going to be the vice presidential potential contenders.
We're coming at this from the public schools, Mark,
because we want to push.
We want to push.
AFT wants to push.
I like that idea of pushing and not demonizing.
I think that is truly our civic responsibility,
is to step up and say,
you know what?
Great.
You're definitely our person.
However, we would like to see this,
and I see right now,
a lot of public education pushing
on the vice presidential candidates,
John, you hinted to,
we'll talk to some of that,
but I see very, you know,
very strongly one,
particularly one of those candidates,
is not getting great,
favorable reviews,
and it's not that we're demonizing this candidate.
I think what we're trying to say is we're pushing
Kamala Harris and the team
that has put together her,
you know, launch to this,
is to say, hey, look,
you've got some people to choose from out there.
Here's one.
We want to push you,
Kamala Harris,
Kamala,
the people that are her team,
because there are some other people
that absolutely seem to be
that they would be a better choice
when it comes to public education.
LA Tom, though,
appreciate the call,
definitely fully the idea,
not demonizing our own team.
It's busted pencils.
It's fully letted education talk.
It's educated educators talking education,
8557524842 is the number.
Johnny, man,
you got me excited about when we come back,
because speaking of AFT,
Randy Weingarten,
we've got quite a few little sound bites
from Randy Weingarten.
Stay tuned for more.
Bring another,
another,
a new way through.
A way through.
A way through.
Follow.
Yeah!
You know which way.
You don't know which way.
Which one way or the other way.
Either way, you can go.
It's Boston Pences.
But we let it.
Education talk.
Education.
Educators.
Talking.
Education.
Man.
8557524842.
L.A. Tom.
Calling the first segment.
Reminding us.
You know, we got to push people.
Let's not demonize people.
L.A. Tom.
Great advice.
Speaking of, though, talking about.
John, we had a great guest last week.
Randy Wine Garden president of AFT.
People like AFT used to be the American Federation of Teachers.
Now branded as just the AFT union representing healthcare workers.
People that are working in the trenches throughout the schools.
Huge.
Okay.
Big second, second largest labor union.
She really today.
Vice President Harris.
Candidate Harris.
Spoke at the AFT convention of which Randy talked about.
That they were going to be having.
Jess, let's go right into it and hear what Randy had to say about.
This new reality we're living.
Well, do you want the new reality or you want.
This administration that we currently have.
Number two.
Yeah.
All right.
Number two.
This is the most pro labor.
Pro worker.
Pro family.
So public education administration in our history.
That's what we needed to hear right there.
Put that out there.
And again, we just want to make sure that people are hearing that pro labor.
Pro family.
Pro public education.
Johnny, hear Randy.
Her excitement on the show.
That she is somebody who just delivers.
Oh, yeah.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And you know, it comes back to like L.A.
Tom was talking about like we need to be really conscientious of not demonizing.
And but separating on that.
That out from how we push one another.
And I want to come back to this like that's an important point.
Because too often we're either or.
And we've come on this like this is really not an either or.
Really about looking at facts.
Understanding even if all of what we love.
Or wanted to see out of an administration.
Didn't happen.
Right.
We have to look at the record.
We have to look out the facts.
And we have to have solidarity.
And we have to have a little bit of a backbone with that solidarity too.
So just know like we can push each other.
We can be hard on each other.
But we got each other's back.
And that's what solidarity is about.
And that's what labor unions have a strong history of.
We'll talk with like Tim.
You know blue collar scholars will call us a clock.
But in sometimes it's a little bit rough.
And it's always very direct.
But doesn't mean we don't have your back all the way.
Rider die right to the end.
And I think that's the that's the mission.
And we'll hear some of that later.
Randy Winegarden synthesized that well and reminded us on the show.
Recently.
Hey, let's look at the facts.
That's contrast.
Right.
Let's really look at what this administration.
This team has done.
Because Harris has done some pretty pretty darn impressive things.
Not only in her career, but in the White House as the vice president.
And so I like remembering that it might not be my wish list for all things education.
But we know that's a long ways to go.
It certainly isn't the destruction of it.
And it certainly isn't an impedance to the things I dream as possible.
I think she can bring those closer to reality than anyone else.
And recent times.
And I think she has a record to show that.
So I love that reminder from AFT and from Randy Winegarden.
It's exciting.
It's unifying.
It's solidarity.
It's going to be a rough road.
But we're here for it.
We're going to ride that road all the way.
One of the things though too.
I mean, you know, I mean, Kamala Harris, vice president Harris.
I mean, she just started listening to busted pencils.
So it's going to take her a while to really get where Johnny and Tim and Jess are coming from.
And all those guests.
But eventually, you know, and that's what we're doing here every night.
We're making sure that that administration and that team right now.
They're listening because his LA Tom says we're pushing.
We're pushing.
We're putting forward.
That's right.
Well, and I said it was a bender of a week with all the politics, all the exciting things.
And then add on that.
I've been on vacation.
Not really.
I am on vacation.
But I'm, I'm included.
Man, Jess, producer, Jess just shot me a message reminding me, Johnny.
Randy Wine Garden was our guest a week ago today.
One week ago.
One week ago.
So listener, if you're like, man, they're talking a lot about this AFT gal.
She's something else.
I got to listen to it.
Just go back to last week's show last week Thursday.
AFT president, Randy Wine Garden was on the show.
It feels like to me like two, two, three weeks ago.
Heck, if we're talking news from the Democratic Party, we're talking that field.
That three years, three years I haven't had as big of news as we've had in the last few days.
Well, you get that podcast on Apple podcast, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts or on the civic media website.
Oh, thank you, Jess, reminding people.
Yeah, go download it.
This one of the great things too is you can download all of those episodes and kind of catch up.
And in fact, if you want to forward those episodes on to your favorite politician so that they can also get in the public education.
No, Boston pencils is available for everybody who wants to learn.
Yeah, that's what we do Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday.
8557524842 is the number if you want to jump in.
In fact, John, I'm going to put it out there right now.
The challenge, not a challenge.
We want to know because let's start digging into some of the vice presidential candidates as we're moving in.
And now we might want to just put out there who is on that list to potentially be a contender.
And let me tell you, listener, if you have somebody that we don't say we want to hear about them too.
We want to hear about every possibility because who knows I might not have the sense of what you understand.
And it might be like, holy crap, I need to push as L.A. Tom said, I'm going to start pushing on that person.
But Johnny, Josh Shapiro, governor of Pennsylvania, Gretchen Whitmer, governor of Michigan, Roy Cooper, governor of North Carolina, Andy Bashir, governor of Kentucky, Tim Walls, governor of Minnesota, JB Pritzker, governor of Illinois, and Mark Kelly, senator of Arizona.
And we'll say that is not in a rank order.
That is just right now on the list.
Just making show.
Yes, just made the just made the list.
So those are the people who made the list at this point.
We would love to hear from you.
But when you hear those those potentials, Josh Shapiro, Gretchen Whitmer, Roy Cooper, Andy Bashir, Tim Walls, JB Pritzker, Mark Kelly, who is it?
We want to hear from you.
Tell us who we think because Johnny and I, we're going to definitely let you know.
Oh, we got our favorites.
Yeah, we got our favorites.
And I can go, you know, yeah, I can.
I will say this though, Tim and listener, you call in and like we want to hear from you too about these folks, especially if you're in that state.
You have real strong experience with it.
But I'll tell you, Tim, I like straight down this ticket.
Like I'm not too concerned.
Like, oh, no, what's going to happen if they choose the wrong person?
I mean, I don't think they can get it wrong here.
I do.
I know you do.
I don't think they can.
I have my favorites, of course, but I don't think they could get it wrong.
And that's again, not not just like blind support for the Democratic Party, as much as it's solidarity.
I think I think this prospect list put together.
I have my favorites for particular reason, but I'm like, we could do some good with these folks.
We could do some good.
Oh, you think about it.
Yeah, put them in the again, the contrast to JD Vance.
Okay.
Yeah.
That list right there.
I don't think anybody on the list is a grifter.
That's a hint that that's not me calling anybody in particular that that's just saying nobody on that list is a grifter.
Oh, it's busted pencils fully let it.
8557524842 vice presidential possibilities.
Who is it that you would like to see?
Stay tuned and let us know.
I was a teenage and I'll kiss looking for evolution.
Johnny Lupinachi theme song there.
Busted pencils fully let it education.
Educated educators talking education teenage anarchist.
Come on.
8557524842 is the number.
We're taking your phone calls.
Everything right now.
We are yes.
We are still on the, you know, the talk about news because it really is something powerful.
You have to keep it down and you have to keep it down.
And you will kind of need to be a part of our people level.
So we are in the smart side of this.
Biden step down.
Camila Harris.
Looks like she is going to be the nominee for the Democrats.
And right now we're transitioning and saying, you know what and with that team, Colin.
Who's going to be the vice president?
Johnny civics lesson right here because, you know, a couple, I had a, um,
I'll say it.
My daughter said, how do the, where does the vice president come from?
Why don't we get to vote for them?
Yeah.
You know, good civics question, right?
Great.
Great.
Yeah.
Do a little one on one team on this plate out for the listener.
Historically, there at one point was where every that that ran.
In fact, the vice president was a separate race from the president and you voted for those.
And there was in time and history when you've got two people in the oval, not the oval office,
but two people in the White House who absolutely did not like each other and they were voted in.
So, you know, right now though, the vice president is nominated by the candidate that is elected
through the party to be that representative that's going to be there.
So it is, it's a courtesy at this point.
Now, civics lesson right now that the presidential nominee gets to extend the offer,
truly extend the offer.
Now, that doesn't mean that she's not getting feedback from all of this.
And it doesn't mean that some of these cats that we're talking about aren't potentially now sending, you know,
whole kinds of papers in going, hey, check me out.
I did this.
I did that because I'm telling you, everybody on this short list,
at this point, they want to be it because if not,
they would have told us right now they don't want to be a part of this.
So we're talking about Josh Shapiro from governor from Pennsylvania,
Gretchen Whitmer, the governor from Michigan, Roy Cooper governor from North Carolina,
Annie Beshear governor, Kentucky.
And we also have Tim Walts governor from Minnesota, JB Pritzker governor of Illinois,
and Mark Kelly senator of Arizona.
That's astronaut Mark Kelly right there in case anybody want to go,
who's the guy from Arizona?
That is Mark Kelly, the astronaut who did all that work.
And in fact, you may remember people going, Johnny, you know,
may have put that out there.
He's married to a very important person also himself.
So yeah, I got dumped you on that.
And that's why I'm not going to put it out there right now.
It's busted pencils.
It's fully-led education talk.
Okay, Johnny Lupinachi, you started off this conversation with saying, hey, look.
You know what?
They're all going to be okay with me if it comes down to it.
I'm not going to lose any sleep over any one of the people whose name I just read.
All right.
So let's go into the, Tim is going to lose sleep over one of these candidates.
Well, yeah.
And I think you're close to it.
So so teach me Tim.
Tell me what I need to know.
I got to know who.
Yeah.
Tell me what I need to know about the guy from Pennsylvania.
Yeah, the network for public education.
Arizona SOS, everybody is weighing in on this one.
Josh Shapiro, governor of Pennsylvania.
Yes, he's a Democrat.
Yes, he is way better than JD Vance.
However, on the public education issue, he supported and tried very hard in Pennsylvania
to put a couple hundred million of dollars in availability to vouchers without any type of spending caps.
And so this is a guy from the public education standpoint who was supportive of vouchers.
And sorry, when it comes to supporting public education for private schooling,
that is anti public education when you're doing that.
And so Josh Shapiro is a supporter of private school vouchers.
So on that point, right there alone, you sit there and go, okay, but is he good on it doesn't matter when it comes to public schools.
He's probably really good on abortion.
He's probably really good on gun access and restricting gun acts.
But on public education, he commits the big no no.
He says yes to vouchers.
And so when you go through that list and you look at and go,
we'll do any of the other support vouchers.
They don't.
And so for me, and for any busted pencil listener out there, any public school listener out there,
you're sitting there going, okay, Josh Shapiro, CJ on the phone to ask about,
oh, ready, ready to go on the call, Jess?
All right.
Well, let's get CJ CJ.
What's happening to our friend?
Hey there.
Thanks for taking my call.
Always CJ.
I love you, man.
How you doing?
Thank you, guys.
I'm good.
Thank you very much for asking.
As I hear you talk about charter schools and public schools.
I'm curious if you know what?
Because I think this one even being an issue of the results.
We're bent.
We're a plus or a positive.
Are you gentlemen aware of what proficiency kids are reading at at fourth?
Eight?
And 12th grade?
Yes, sir.
I actually, I actually am.
Hey, CJ, so I just want, wait, CJ, I just want to ask you, wait, I want to ask you a question
though about proficiency because I know where you're going with this.
But I want you to see if we're when you talk about proficiency, you're not talking about grade
level.
Just to remind the listener out there because grade level level is it is another category.
Proficiency is the top notch stellar, the most engaged reading level there is.
There's a level below that grade level and then there's a sustaining.
So just so I know where you're going.
So just point that out there.
Did you know that CJ that prof that grade level is actually below proficiency?
Yes, yes I did know that.
Okay.
My question though is I've had kids 17, 18, 19 show up on a job site not be able to read a tape measure.
I've had them not be able to follow instructions on to do a basic project.
It's really scary.
This wouldn't be an issue if if you look at the results of kids that could read in the 70s compared to now.
And I'm comparing nationwide Milwaukee rural.
But I'm on why why is it so bad?
Don't you think it should be merit based and I put a lot of.
CJ got you.
He's still there.
Yeah.
Go ahead CJ.
You hear me?
Yeah, we got you hear me.
Well, I put a lot of emphasis of the problems on the parents and also for the schools to advance these kids because they've had the sharpest decline in the last three, four, five years.
And part of it is certainly due to COVID.
But this is not a steady uphill climb.
This is a steady downhill slide.
And it's scary.
So if it was merit based and these kids were.
Actually, you want to talk about grave levels.
But they it actually declines as they get older.
Yeah, man.
I mean, I appreciate you CJ for calling in.
And CJ is bringing up some real important topics that I think we agree on.
But we get there through different information.
And I'm with CJ 100% that that schools should focus more on real life skills.
We should be able to apply the things we're learning to say like read a tape measure, you know, you know, you know, go through the grocery store and be able to do some math.
Like how much are we spending when we buy stuff or what's the unit price of something?
We do need more real world application in schools.
We know that across the board.
That's a separate issue.
I advocate for that strongly right, right side by side with CJ.
But one of the things that isn't really in the information, although it's purported.
And that means it's like it's it's used in rhetoric.
But it's not really what's occurring in schools.
Is that this proficiency level that CJ is getting information about and sharing on the show.
And it is out there.
Every teacher knows we get a proficiency score.
That score is very similar to like to like sales goals.
It gets bumped up.
And I'll give the example like if I'm working in sales, maybe I'm working at like a big box retail store.
And my job is to, you know, sell TVs.
So I get a projected, I get a goal of sales goal.
We want to sell this many TVs this Black Friday, right, this season.
We're going to, you know, this quarter, we got to sell so many.
And if you sell so many, there'll be some bonuses.
That's what CJ is kind of allowing to and merit, right.
So if we have this, this many, we sell this many TVs, we're going to get there.
And I do, I work really hard as a sales team with my employees.
And we get, you know, record levels of TVs sold.
Well, then then what comes back to us now is, hey, next quarter, you guys did great.
You guys did great.
You get it.
We're going to up that.
You're going to sell.
Let's go 18% more, right.
And I'm thinking, I just sold everybody.
I know a TV and everybody that walks through this door bought a TV.
You think they're going to buy a new one.
Again, the next day.
So the scores are those scores, the proficiency scores are really based on the past group level of kids performances.
And so one of the, one of the really demystifying facts for us to remember is all of us talking.
And CJ included on that, right.
scored way lower than those fourth graders and eighth graders did these past few years.
So actually, we have been on a steep incline based on that, that proficiency score.
Tim, you're talking about, which is different than grade level score.
And like the top, the top writer and editor for, for let's say the New York Times or Wall Street Journal scored lower than these fourth graders and eighth graders did.
So we have to be really careful because those are certainly CJ certainly an educated person in our community.
Tim, you, Jess and I are and we scored lower than students who aren't reaching proficiency in fourth and eighth grade.
So it's a made up number similar to like sales projections on proficiency and competitiveness internationally.
It's really to push us all to do more.
And that's, that's a mantra everyone in every career can, can share is, hey, we don't always need to do more.
We need to do better.
And I hear that and what CJ is sharing to is, hey, we can do better.
And we agree on that.
CJ, so love your call.
Love that you're listening, my guy.
Thanks for, thanks for sharing that.
Hey, oh, and it's true.
Is that bell rings every day and busted pencils during this segment?
We do this every day.
We have democracy in action today's democracy in action.
I got to give it to him.
I got L.A. Tom.
L.A. Tom coming in strong today with reminding us that there's a common good.
That's the democratic value.
The common good.
He said, we got to really work on pushing each other, but showing solidarity.
Common good reminds us.
We could disagree, but we're all working towards common good.
Citizens should work together for the good of all.
The government, in fact, should make laws that are good for everyone.
So when we're talking about contrast and when we're looking at VP candidates,
possible people to run with Harris, when even when we're talking about,
why would you voter, listening out there, vote for a Harris ticket, right?
It's because we want to look really at, is the government going to be capable of making laws that are good for everyone?
Not just good for a few.
Not just good for corporations, not just good for the elite, but good for everyone.
So today's democracy in action.
Common good goes out to our guy, L.A. Tom.
L.A. Tom, thanks for reminding us about the common good, my guy.
L.A. Tom busted pencils fully.
Letted education talk, educated educators, talking education.
The numbers 8557524842.
CJ took us a little off track here.
We're talking about the potential vice presidential candidates.
We've got some text messages, a little challenging on CJ from L.A. Tom there.
You know, putting it out there.
L.A. Tom was like, he's L.A. Tom wants to know about what reading a tape measure has to do with reading a book.
Well, L.A. Tom, I tell you, you know, it's what we're talking about though.
And I know where you're going with this and I know we're Johnny's talking about this.
But, you know, some of the skills that may not be relatable to say,
hey, you can't read a tape measure, but maybe you can possibly read.
I always worry about this one though too.
I wish we'd be a lot more concerned too about the books that were not allowed to read much.
In fact, Jess, I'm feeling we might have a little bit of a quote that talks about that.
It's busted pencils, it's fully letted education talk.
Yeah, when we get back, what is it about books and guns and things like that?
Stay tuned.
Next.
Ah, man, it's already last segment.
Busted pencils fully letted education talk.
Educated educators.
I think he was kind of going after, I think what got CJ going is when I was going after Josh Shapiro
for being a supporter of vouchers.
And I know where CJ is coming from because I know CJ is a supporter of vouchers and charter schools.
And he's coming at that from the standpoint of saying shouldn't we give kids a way out of failing schools
and then using that reading proficiency to kind of, you know, kind of make his argument.
There's a little, there's more complexity there CJ that we want to talk about.
And for me, actually vouchers and charter schools, the way out of failing schools,
the way out of failing schools is to invest in your schools, not divest or divert funding to other schools.
Johnny.
Yeah, Tim, and I think we're a little bit different on this.
And so I may be a little closer to CJ's.
I think you are.
Yeah.
And this is again, why I have a plug.
I know she said, I'm not interested.
I don't read it as like a firm hard.
No, I would not accept, you know, an invitation to run with with Harris.
But big gratch up in Michigan.
And it's different from state to state.
But I like Michigan for this because they're navigating this charters.
Have been like really run, run in a mock through Michigan.
Similar to like Wisconsin and Colorado.
Yeah, in Colorado.
And she's got experience navigating that this is a condition we're in.
There are many types of schools and charters are among those.
And even within charters and our guest recently to Jonathan Garicco and his publicization.
Book talks about this is like, we have to ask our question.
What's the best school for children anywhere they are?
And ideally, and I put that ideally in a democracy that ought to be our public schools,
wherever you are in this country.
That is not the case for an overwhelming amount of young people in this country.
And that's not okay.
So we're here arguing on a big scale, Tim, that ought to be that every kid
have a good strong public school.
And I'm going to stand by that in the midst of it, though,
we're really deep into a landscape of all kinds of different schools,
public charters, for profit charters, all kinds of different ones.
And I like the candidates that have experience navigating that.
And I like what's happening in Michigan.
We've had some guests on in the past two have helped us navigate that.
We have to figure out how do we support schools wherever children are
and make sure that those are the best possible schools.
And that includes in many districts, some of the charters,
but they ought to be held accountable just like any other school.
And so this is a different, that's a, I think that's thinking forward.
That's thinking into the future, saying how do we coexist in a place
where we're all really good options for kids?
And I got to tell you what the tweak or the tour or whatever.
The, the rub on Josh Shapiro is, is that he, his supportive vouchers
were going to unaccountable voucher schools.
And that's where you and I are in 100% agreement.
It's like, look, you're not going to give public public tax dollars away
to schools that don't have any accountability to the public that you're supposed to serve.
Go ahead, John.
Because you know my favorites.
You know my favorites.
Oh, I know.
I think North Carolina fan, you know, I like cooped down there.
You know, I like big grouches.
We'll get into those.
Probably have to carry over into the tomorrow show.
Absolutely.
But we'll talk more about this.
But I will throw this out there, Tim.
Pennsylvania is a lot of electoral votes.
I know.
I mean, this is about winning.
I know where I know where I know you and I are chopping it up.
Because this is busted pencils fully-led in education.
Talk educated educator.
So we got to talk about Shapiro's not so great record with education.
But I also got to throw out there.
Hey, strategy matters in Pennsylvania as a big electoral number.
Yes.
I don't think it ought to be the reason we let go having this conversation.
But just had to throw it in there.
Oh, I appreciate.
I know there's a lot there.
And I said, Josh Shapiro has actually been a really good governor in the state of Pennsylvania.
A Pennsylvania.
You know, get my own home state doing really well under Shapiro.
Just on that, though, he coming up to, you know, vouchers.
It's just, you know, can't do it.
You can't do it.
Unaccountable vouchers.
Unaccountable.
Okay.
Really, really good.
And thanks for reminding us too, Jonathan Girko, the pot, you know, his publicization book
and pointing out that they're there.
There can be, and maybe there should be alternative publics, not an alternative to public, but
that there could be different ways we look at public and how we kind of categorize that.
And Johnny, though you made reference to your own home state, Michigan, and saying, you know,
things did get a little crazy.
They fixed it up.
But speaking of that, one of the kids, I won't go as far as they they fixed it.
No, I said they're fixing, but they're trying.
But one of these vice presidential candidates, I think when I look down at that, oh, yes,
it is.
Gretchen Whitmer, governor from Michigan is one of these people.
So Johnny Lupinachi, what are you thinking about Gretchen Whitmer?
Well, man, I think we could have a whole show on how much I love Big Gretchen.
But not just because I'm loyal to the soil, although I am by Michigan boy through and through,
even though I've been, you know, displaced a bit as a career has taken me west.
But I will say this, Tim, I get really excited about two strong women who are in it for the fight.
And they are not taking, they're not pulling any punches.
They're direct, they're to the point.
And they time and time again have advocated empathetically, but with a firm voice,
or what I would say is a common good.
And I haven't always been happy with it.
And that's a sign of a good leader.
We don't need a leader who meets all of our needs and makes us all happy.
That's impossible.
We need somebody who has empathy, but firm grip on this is what we're going to do.
This is the common good and we're going to do it.
We're going to do it unapologetically.
And we're going to make this country stronger.
And I think big grouch has done that in Michigan under a lot of duress and in a really divided state.
Yes.
I think she's been unifying in a lot of ways.
And education is one of those at the forefront in my experience with her leadership in that state.
Like you said, I won't say it's fixed, but it's certainly turned around over a Michigan to be a student and to be a teacher in that state.
Well, and you said, Johnny, too.
I mean, we have, you know, Julian Vazquez Highleg over their provost at Western Michigan.
Jason Glass used to be the commissioner of education and Kentucky used over there in Western Michigan talking about,
truly, the things that are going on.
Oh, man.
Johnny, you're going to go for it.
Go for it.
I know I know that the rationale, the, the thoughts, hey, maybe it's not time to run to women.
Why not?
That's why not.
Why not?
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Tim, we burnt through this show.
We're going to have to catch you listener tomorrow for TGI BPF.
Baby, let's see it.
Let's tune in tomorrow and listen to busted pencils.
Thanks for listening today.
Just think about it.
So we want to ban assault weapons and they want to ban books.
Can you imagine?