This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk.
Here are your hosts, Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,
educated educators talking education.
Of course it is. Well, maybe it's not. It's just him.
Teacher Halley, educators amplified Busted Pencils special night,
educated educators talking, education amplifying the voices
of educators. It's just teacher Halley in the house,
teacher Joe Anna and Johnny Lupinacci, Dr. Johnny Lupinacci.
Well, you know, occasionally sometimes there are other things
that come up and when that happens, that's what's great about
having a team of four, typically on a Wednesday,
is that we can still show up and really kick some, you know,
butt, that would be butt, not the other thing.
Teacher Halley, how are you?
I'm doing well. I'm excited for it to be just the two of us.
I mean, let go. We can still rip.
Hey, I think we can. I mean, typically the whole idea is,
is that people are going to like, oh my God, who's going to shut the two of them up?
Well, I'll shut you up.
Okay, we'll go back and forth.
You know what, though, teacher Halley, just, just a reminder,
you know, the busted pencils, it's sponsored by the Monaco Brewing Company
who sued the state of Wisconsin to end its crappy voucher system
that hurts public schools. Monaco Brewing Company is making Wisconsin
great again, one beer at a time, check out Monaco Brewing Company dot com
to see where you can buy their progressive beer.
I didn't know if you'd forgotten that, Halley.
No, thank you for the reminder.
Okay, you know, I just think.
And Sherry from Horocon, thank you so much for saying hi
in the text all the time. Good evening, boys and girls.
Well, yeah, or boy and girls or, yeah, you know,
however, us them, everybody here.
Oh, it's busted pencils. It's fully-led at education talks.
Number eight five five seven five two four eight four two
special educators amplified.
We've got some topics here.
Teacher Halley, but today, you know, first of all,
it is a holiday.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
June 10th, right?
Yep. Happy June 10th.
Happy June 10th.
Now, we're going to pose a question to the listeners out there.
Anybody, but first of all, you know,
it's just like June 10th celebration marking the day in Texas
when slaves were red that they were free.
You know, so, you know, this holiday.
It's a holiday and it is.
It's on you pointed out before the show started.
You know, banks are closed on June 10th.
So it's a holiday.
The question, though, in today's world that we currently occupy.
2024.
2024.
If school were in session,
would the public schools be acknowledging Juneteenth as a holiday?
Would we be teaching the students about the history of Juneteenths?
Or would we find this all wrapped up in turmoil?
Because, you know, Juneteenth is just one of those critical race theory topics
that is meant to divide us and split us up.
And we're not going to go down that rabbit hole.
I don't know.
That's a question.
You kind of posed at this morning thinking about that.
So if school were in session right now,
would there be the holiday?
I think the question that answers probably, yeah, I would still be there.
The thing that we're more kind of intrigued or possibly throwing out to the listener
for you to call in and let us know is that in 2024,
with all of the attacks on what are called critical race theory,
the truth, divisive concepts,
would Juneteenth be framed as one of those divisive concepts?
And would we be having discussions about whether we should even be talking about it?
I think it's a powerful question.
Oh, I do too.
I mean, and I have theories myself.
I think it, you know, because Wisconsin is a battleground state,
I think it definitely depends on where you live,
like what county you live in, how red or blue it is.
You know what I mean?
And how, like,
and then I also think like,
so if you're in more of a blue county, I would say,
yes, they'll be talking about it.
There's probably an assembly or a celebration or an honoring that like the whole district does.
Right.
I feel like in a red county,
it's like crickets and or dependent on the teacher.
Hmm.
You know?
Yeah, I will.
But I won't even put it just on teachers,
because what I see often living in a red county is that
we have school boards now that are very much running with their power
and like using it like,
I don't even know, like the power is all theirs.
And I think that they're very good at inciting fear in professionals.
I think that where you hit on that,
the question of would,
how many teachers would feel threatened?
Right.
With the idea of going,
what do I do today on Juneteenth?
Can I teach this?
Right.
I've now been a teacher for the past,
let's just imagine,
oh, 10 years, 15 years,
but in the last three years,
I have been in classrooms
and have heard school board meetings
and have read news articles.
And I'm not so sure I want to go down in that direction
because who knows if I might not offend somebody
and so it's that chilling effect.
So who knows if I'll get,
quote unquote,
caught and then let go.
Yeah.
Wow.
Right away.
Caller Mark from Prairie,
do say marks on the line.
What's happening Mark?
Yeah, thanks.
And talking about the Civil War,
it just brings up,
brings back my,
and this is going back
some 50 years ago now,
when I was in the 11th grade
in my teacher,
Bernie Tomsack,
lectured on the Civil War.
I particularly wanted to lecture
when he talked about the battle of Shiloh
and the,
and the teach blossoms dropping on the,
on the, on the dead,
and wounded on the battle,
during the battle of Shiloh.
I mean, it just,
it's just sad that, you know,
American history is being,
being forgotten,
and they're,
they're hesitant to teach about it.
And certainly, you know,
Juneteenth,
it should be a,
a teachable moment
because it took that long,
you know,
that they probably were full aware
in Gavalson.
The officials were probably
fully aware in Gavalson
of the fact that the,
the south had lost,
and the emancipation patient
proclamation had been made.
They chose to do that
until the,
until the federal has actually arrived,
to enforce the,
the emancipation proclamation.
I mean, they,
it is just,
and,
that should be recognized as well,
because there's, you know,
that,
it's,
in the fact that the matter is,
as soon as Jim Crow ended,
I mean,
as soon as reconstructed
and ended,
Jim Crow replaced it.
Yeah.
And that's something
that is not taught,
and Jim Crow is still with us,
and its legacy is still with us.
Yeah.
I think, Mark,
yeah, you know,
it's one of those two,
you make me think about this
and teach your alley
because there's,
there's so many ways
that this comes up
because you hear,
Mark going like,
there's so much history.
You know,
it's not just Juneteenth.
It's like,
why Juneteenth?
Why do we celebrate?
What's the history?
What was the intentionality
of keeping people suppressed
to even knowing that fact
that it took that long
for that message
to get delivered?
Was there an intentionality
to keep people enslaved
as long as they could?
You know,
and that's part of the history.
It's part of the story,
and I think that's where you would start
to find people saying,
you know what?
We can have Juneteenth.
We can have a parade.
We can have a picnic.
Yeah.
But we're not talking about the facts,
though,
because those facts make me uncomfortable.
And if you're a teacher
out there inflicting
uncomfortable on people,
watch out
because the,
yeah, the history police
are going to come for you.
It's busted pencils,
fully-ledged education talk.
Educator is amplified.
Teacher Halley in the house,
eight by five,
seven, five, two,
four, eight,
four, two,
is the number.
If you want to join us,
just like Mark did,
Mark, really appreciate your call.
Yeah.
And, you know what?
Yeah. On you,
let's jump in right away.
You know what?
You, you,
you volunteered there.
I guess, yeah.
Go for it.
So,
so I was just sort of sitting here
listening to this.
And I think it's important,
right, the difference
between the emancipation
proclamation.
Here's Abraham Lincoln saying,
we're going to free the slaves
versus that news,
finally getting, you know,
because until the news gets
to these folks,
unless they all know about it
and subsequently choose to walk
off of the,
where they're being kept,
and they could be subjected
to violence, right?
The emancipation proclamation
means nothing
until these,
these folks get to leave.
So, this is kind of similar
in a way to why there is,
there's international Holocaust
for remembrance day.
But then there's also
Yom Hoshowa,
and international Holocaust
call it,
ugh, I can't get my words out today.
International Holocaust
for remembrance day
falls on the day actually
that the Soviet
military basically got to
Auschwitz to
liberate it,
whereas Yom Hoshowa is like
the,
is more set on the day
that we actually see,
like prisoners
incarcerated individuals
of the Holocaust getting out
and being able to talk about
their liberation,
the difference between
the story of the liberator,
the soldier,
or the president
who does the thing
and gets there
with the guns
and the military versus,
okay, and the folks,
the people
who needed to be freed
because someone decided
to make them unfree
when is their day.
And it's kind of similar.
I don't want to equate things
to the same thing.
No, no, no, no,
it's similar.
What's similar on this
when the way we're talking
about this
is the richness
that comes around these
stories, the history
and how you can
relate, you're going to
like, well, this happened
and then this
and you make, you know,
that's what you do.
And I know, you know,
Johnny, you know,
past social studies
he's just both of us.
I mean, this is the type
of things you want to
engage students in
Berkeley,
is comparison.
How is this like this?
How is this not like this?
How are they,
you know,
what is this.
So let's talk about it.
And so, yeah,
think about that.
We're putting forth the question
then here today on
June teens.
Would there if school
or in session.
Would there be these
critical analysis,
these discussions
based around the history
or would it be
potentially in today
2024 kind of just churned
into, you know,
hey, it's another holiday.
It's another day
for a parade
or for us to, you know,
in the African drumming music.
And we're going to walk
around.
But other than that,
though, we're not going to dare
come close.
Teach your alley.
Yeah, it makes me think about
like, right?
It's, it's what we're
faced now as educators.
Is this like,
we're either allowed to be
the professional,
like where we can
give the critical thinking
and help, you know,
encourage students to think
and inquire on all of this stuff.
Right?
Even when Ania was talking,
like, I got chills.
Like, I love thinking
like that.
Kids just eat that up.
Right?
Because it's making them think.
Versus, well, what fun fact
can I just give about
Juneteenth?
Right.
You know, like it's
really stripping away
the professionalism
when we have all this.
That's the question.
The question we're asking
with educators amplified
tonight, you know,
Juneteenth,
if school were in session,
would we be teaching it?
Or would we be just
kind of having a little bit
of a fun day?
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Oh, you know, hey,
We said you can make anything into a rock song.
Hey, best music anywhere.
We say it all the time.
Busted pencils, you know,
You're going to get some type of surprise.
Juneteenth, though,
Question, you know,
If today,
Well, you know, if we were still school in session,
What would the
Students, the teachers, the schools,
The school districts be doing around this day?
And we kind of framed it as this potentially problematic in
2024 because there's a story here
That might make some people uncomfortable.
You know, so is it emancipation day?
Is it freedom day?
These are questions right away, right?
That somebody could go, well, wait a minute.
No, you know, we can have hot dogs.
I'll even allow the,
The drumming African drummers to come in and do a little celebration.
But we are not going to be talking about the specifics of Juneteenth.
Why did it?
Why did it take so long for the message to get to the slaves?
Why did it take so long for us to actually have a holiday around Juneteenth?
Because those topics, if we start getting into those types of discussions,
Teacher Halley, somebody might be offended.
Yeah, and I think it's what's what's wild to me is that like,
It's got to be deeper than uncomfortable and offended.
You know what I mean?
Like for people to want to get in positions of power
And to like eliminate this type of conversation,
This type of critical thinking, this type of conversation,
It's just so deep to me.
Like it is to me, like it's just an attack on like the profession of education
And like really an attack on like the like,
What were I am looking for?
Like the children's minds.
And like the capacities of like where you could go with their minds.
Because again, like I said, I just keep sitting here thinking about how
This has so much to do with taking away the autonomy of teachers.
And people will be like, well, I don't want my teacher to have autonomy.
You know,
Like, well, why not?
Because they're professionals.
You know, like we should want them to be able to take a conversation
And route it wherever it needs to go.
It actually makes me think about a shout out to a teacher I won't name because I think
This was fear inducing, but my child's second grade teacher.
And it was around Martin Luther King day.
So related but not related.
But essentially a conversation about racism came up, you know, with seven and eight year olds.
Okay.
And students in the class shared about how they had experienced racism in their life.
And so my daughter came home who is white.
And she was just like beside herself.
You know, like she's very empathic where she's just like, why would people do that?
That is awful, mom.
You know, and then she's like, I was crying in class.
But to me, I was like, what an amazing conversation is I'm listening to my,
I don't remember if she was seven or eight at the time, eight.
My eight year old be able to tell me about what racism is in a very like
developmentally appropriate eight year old way.
I was like dang.
That teacher knows how to navigate this conversation.
So just being who I am, I emailed her being like, thank you so much.
Like this is why I send my children to public school.
Those type of conversations that just come up that you can navigate professionally is amazing.
And her response back to me was like, do you mind sending this?
Or like forwarding it on to the principal?
Because I'm getting like my principal is like basically telling me I need to send an apology to all the parents.
A clarification about why I talked about it because she's so scared that the school board will find out.
And then they'll be upset.
You know, so that teacher was like mortified.
Right.
And like walking away being scared versus.
And then I did find out later from talking to other parents and then encouraging them.
Like email her, you know, but it was and they were excited that the conversation happened.
But I'm just like, this is the environment that teachers are teaching it of like.
So imagine, yeah, imagine that today at Juneteenth, if we were, yeah, in school.
When you're sitting there and what you described, though, with your daughter in that, though, is exactly.
I can see the other parent going, how dare you send my daughter home in tears, feeling bad about being white.
What in the heck are you doing?
Right.
Because what's wild to me.
Is that like I get up or I think we're so conditioned now to think about like the quote unquote other parent.
But I'm telling you that that class of, you know, random class of probably 30 second graders.
There weren't parents that were like, lock her up, you know, like nobody complained.
Right.
Well, that's where I just get like, why does our brain go to like, but we need to be careful about the what if situation of the one parent that might say something or might find out, you know, I'm like.
It's taking away the professionalism and a true public education for kids.
And that is what you're explaining, though, is just that's the reality of today.
Is is that I know how much can be stifled without actually any harm being done or anything like that.
Yeah.
You know, it's it's educators amplified night teacher, Halley, Dr. Tim sucker and on the boards.
Another text from Sherry from Oregon or a con or a con.
It needs to be uncomfortable, but told right on.
I mean, that's the reality here. We got to do that.
And I just think about that, you know, because the reality of the potential that none of the parents that were associated with you and your daughter and all that, like you're all fine with that.
But it doesn't matter anymore because there is a story out there of a teacher who, you know, got put into the wet dungeon with the rats and made to hang out there for days.
Because they're punishment for daring to make somebody.
But the story gets out that this did happen, right?
And so then the anxiety response on that and is catastrophized way above and beyond the reality that will typically go.
And then you cycle yourself and people, you know, people say, well, what's the problem?
You don't, if it's true, you don't have, it's like, no, you understand this silences people very powerfully.
Without actually doing any type of harm.
I remember that I would, I would, my first couple of years teaching him.
I was some, you know, it's like, you're going to get in trouble, Tim.
You're going to get in trouble. And I kept one, I'm like, how do you know that?
Where is the evidence that trouble has occurred?
And it must have been so horrible because we have no evidence of anybody having ever gotten in trouble.
But the fear of getting in trouble has created such a backlash that people go, hey, you know, and I would even say I'm like, when did this person get in trouble?
What happened that was so horrific that the rest of you now have decided that we're going to actually warn people about what happens when they get in trouble?
Teen's busted pencils, educators amplified, fully-ledged education talk, all those things, educated educators talking education, eight by five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, do a little bit more Juneteenth.
But hey, the other thing though, too, if you're an administrator out there and you're hiring a consultant, we want to talk to you when we get back.
No one can be.
If everything starts going for the magazine.
What got still times I'll be behind my skin.
Pusted pencils, fully-ledged education talk, educated educators talking, education Wednesday, educators amplified in the house, teacher Halley, teacher Joanna, you know, and Johnny tonight.
Other things have come up and that is, you know, again, family first all the time.
Teacher Halley, though, you know, Juneteenth today, we kind of posed the beginning of the show to kind of, you know, if school were in session today, you know, what would be happening in schools?
Would there be teaching about Juneteenth about the history, about why it took so long for the message to get to those slaves in Texas?
Would we be engaging or would it be simply in today, 2024?
Hey, you know what, I don't want to make anybody uncomfortable.
So we're just going to have hot dogs and announce that it's a, it's a holiday.
You know, I mean, gosh, it bothers me that that's like how it, you know, like how things roll, you know, I also think about like, I always think about because we're in these type of, this type of environment right now.
Like, is there anyone that's there to like defend or be like, nope, this is what we should be doing. You know what I mean?
Like, it's very based on like, here's what we should do. Here's what we shouldn't do versus like just what's felt mentally appropriate, like anyone going to come out here and try to like, defend that.
You know, and to me, I could be like, oh, that could be like an administrator's role to, you know, to preserve the autonomy or preserve the professionalism of the educators in the classroom.
But I don't know if they view that as their role or not.
But that's a whole other question that you bring up there too. What does an administrator believe their role is in these situations.
You know, lots of administrators and let's use that word until we were you mean the leadership potentially administrators, yeah, are sometimes by default the leaders. However, if you were a leader in this situation, I'm pretty sure you would yeah advocate for the autonomy.
Eventually though, this is one of those situations where would district administration want to consult an outside source to potentially give them guidance.
Yeah, I mean, so this is what's crazy about a school is that like the hierarchy is stacked right where it's like teachers at well, students at the bottom, then teachers, then building administration, then district administration.
You know, in district administration more and more, I used to think like superintendent was at the tap, but I'm seeing more and more with these cultures of like fear essentially that they're like kind of superintendents are kind of like not lowering themselves very low, but kind of being like we work with the cabinet of the people services director and the athletic director and the I made up this title director, you know, so that it like this little team of people.
So no one can say like I said it yeah, and then they can be like, oh, we hired this consultant who said data, and so what's really just has been very interesting to me as an educator is seeing how many consultants like the superintendent gets to hire a consultant, the people services director gets to hire a consultant.
The curriculum and instruction director gets to hire a consultant, you know, like we have consultants for all of our quote unquote leaders and what is that about once the last time you as a teacher got the hire a consultant.
So we like I don't need a consultant no, no, no, no, I know I just I just I just I love on you.
Yeah, what was she put in there?
I just was wondering yeah, does someone get to be the director of making up titles if there's all these titles going around and and if and if there is who is their consultant and where do they go for their info.
Right, I mean schools are so successfully marketed to that, you know, Google has a consultant, you know, like for an example, but also just like, oh, I'm a consultant.
Are you having trouble with how to talk with your educators about special education? I'm a consultant for that.
Oh, are you having difficulties with your financials in your district? Oh, I'm a consultant for that.
Okay, but you're making me think though on this now too about that because you start to I start to wonder about.
Do you need a consultant or shouldn't that be your job responsibility and shouldn't you have the professional authority and autonomy to be making those types of decisions and then, you know, we're talking about school budgets.
You know, where the heck does all this money come from for the consultants never, never, never do I hear that there's not enough money for the consultant.
There's not enough money for, you know, the school band. There's not enough money for the field trip. There's not enough money for food. There's not enough money for teacher raises.
Okay, but the consultant class and and I will say I have work as a consultant though myself. And so I'm.
I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But but asking the question though at what point.
Should you be the one responsible for the work, the have the authority and have the leadership skills to actually enact tough decisions that you shouldn't need a consultant.
And if you need a consultant is that really just evidence, you're not really good.
I don't know. I just I would love if a district administrator or even a building administrator called in and gave us perspective on like one.
Have you ever had a consultant to what do you think that your role is in all of this like, you know, I just because right from my lens.
I'm like, we hire a superintendent at, you know, like 150,000 dollars plus.
I think that's, I mean, right, that was really lowballing it.
And then how much is a consultant?
You know that like you that they hire in for themselves, but yet all I ever hear is an educator like the most expensive line items in the budget is educators.
You know, so like that's why we can never pay all the educators because they're so expensive.
And I would love to like proportion it out of like if there's X number of people in your district office.
How much of your funding what percentage goes to that and and their consultants versus, you know, whatever there's got to be, you know, I'm sure unions have done it.
You know, figured it out, but it is it's it's it's actually terrifying.
You know that like when schools have budget issues that what gets cut is things that affect students versus things that affect one superintendent and consultant or whatever.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you think about that, you know, how do we make budget decisions?
And yeah, some of those things is like, well, you know, yeah, we can we can do away with funding the kindergarten field trip this year.
Like, well, why are we making that decision? Well, I can't cut my consultant.
Right.
And, you know, and again, and like you frame you frame this teacher, Hallie, but two is saying, you know, and if you are a district administrator out there and you're listening to us right now, you know, give us a call eight five seven five to four eight four to either either, you know, validate verify what we're talking about.
But challenge us on it because we're really, you know, we're asking these questions because this teacher Hallie points out, you know, it always seems like particularly when it comes down to the budget, the budget.
And if the budget's tight, which I guess what it's a public school, I don't know that there hasn't ever been anything but a tight budget.
When you make those decisions, and this is a question that, you know, I've kind of posed before the show.
Are the consultants salaries should they be disclosed as part of the financial situation that a school is in.
We did know that would we know, would we say, well, you know what, it's not that much money.
Yeah, I guess we should cut the kindergarten field trip. I mean, how are these decisions made so lots of issues coming up here as we bring this, you know, bring this forward lots of different ways to throw, but you know, are you an administrator, do you need a consultant.
And if you do need a consultant, is that really an indication that you're not that qualified that you actually have to hire consultant or is it an indicator that you're not that great of a leader.
And you just want to hire somebody who can tell you that here's what you need to say and then you can then go to the masses or the team and say the consultant said.
Or even this possibility of going it's just like, you know, how do we make decisions around making important declarations going all the way back to the Juneteenth.
Yeah, I could see this situation being, you know, a district school and administrator, a group of leaders, the curriculum director, the director of making up titles all getting together and going, you know what, you know how we could solve this problem.
We'd hire a consultant.
Yeah, I can see, you know, from my experience in the current climate and culture that we're in, it is a lot of like people in the quote unquote leadership roles pointing to others or pointing to the team of like.
So instead of it being like, I individually made this decision.
If we hire consultants or work as a team or whatever we can say things like, oh, well, the consultant recommended this.
You know, like it almost gives that like pass or that like, you can never pin anybody down to get to the root of the issue.
And I think that's why we're just these issues just aren't going away and we're just taking band aids to try to cover things up or like when teachers are like, I'd love to do something on Juneteenth that's meaningful.
It turns into like, well, let me ask X Y or Z or the team decided this or the consultant sent out the communication and that's what we're doing in our district, you know, it just allows this like, I guess, land is zero responsibility zero like ownership or like zero like I can just like white my hands.
That's why you pay you pay good money for the ability to offer just the decision making that's what's happening in a lot of these situations.
Yeah, you know, and I'll come back and say I have worked and I still do some work as a consultant.
So anybody who's out there listening going, why the heck is Tim?
I'm like, I hire myself in situations to come in and you know, it's more around a group and putting together strategic planning and the idea and so, you know, I see places where I understand why you do have consultants.
But I can point out I know, but I can point out what you just said, though, Halley, which is, you know what, a lot of times we hire consultants to make the hard decisions so that we don't have to be the ones to deliver the bad news.
And that I'm framing that so, you know, if you're listening out there and you know the situation I'm describing eight five five seven five two four eight four two, you know, you've been part of consultant to did.
There, I just made up that word consultant to did it.
You know, so, you know, and possibly even to the point where you find yourself being told by your boss, hey, sorry, but the consultant said, and this is the decision we're making and boy, how does that feel to be told by somebody who's a leader.
And I say leader and I'm not really sure you're a leader when you offload decision making to consultants, Halley, before we break, I see you got something.
This just sounds like a really crazy ball of hierarchy and bureaucracy to me, you know, a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about power with versus power over if we had a power with structure, things could be so much better.
You know, yeah, the old distributed leadership, my goodness, sharing decision making when you were talking about a team, though, in fact, when we come back, I want to throw that out there, because guess what, you do have qualified people to make these decisions, we're going to talk about them when we get back more of us, the pencils next.
Busted pencils fully let it education talk educated educators talking education Wednesday night educators amplified in the house teacher, Halley.
Dr. Tim Slicker on you have a three of us were hanging out on Juneteenth talking about yeah, what will we do on Juneteenth if we were in school and then the possibility of well, this would be a decision we would turn over to a consultant to make.
And Halley, you know, you pointed out to me one of the things that I think and I've seen this.
The use of consultants to essentially keep hierarchy in place because you were talking about a team right so i'm imagining a school okay and i'm imagining three kindergarten teachers three first grade teachers three second grade teachers a speech pathologist a special education coordinator all the way up through fifth grade.
That's a team of really smart people who are all qualified to be an educator to be a decision maker why don't we ask you guys to do this and why do we offload this to a consultant and i'm posing that question because.
Is it because we don't want to.
Give you the autonomy to be decision makers.
I mean that's how I interpret it.
But like I'm open you know funny enough I kept using the word team and now i'm going to crack myself because the word I always am told in education for.
What I would define as a team but the word that's always used for district them in those roles that work together is the cabinet.
Oh the cabinet cabinet made this decision which to me i'm like why don't they just say team like it's a whole nother example to me I guess of the whole like.
It creates separation like you just said because not it's not it's the cabinet it's the executive group it's the you know it's the president's advisory council.
Yes you're going well wait why does the president have an advisory council that doesn't include any of us who are living it every day right right.
The higher our system had that to go.
You're like well how do I get on the advisory council it's like well you don't if you're a teacher if you're actually.
If you're part of the team you don't get to be part of the decision making we hire the decision making out to the group that is the authority oh my god it gets so.
It sounds like we're having a little bit of a conversation about what does it mean to be a leader what does it mean to be an administrator.
I think I think those are very very very different and I will frame it this way by saying.
Leaders should have some good administrative skills.
But being an administrator does not make you a leader.
And I see way too many administrators and I'm saying across multiple different occupations different categories not just in schools but that whole idea of.
I'm now an administrator and the assumption is that you've been appointed a leader and it's like sorry to me leadership is earned.
Well and I think it has to do with like values or like philosophy of like is it just like because I am an administrator quote unquote at the top I am named the leader versus.
How I treat you know everybody within the school or you know corporation or whatever like how I operate how you know we choose to work together is that more what defines someone having leadership skills.
Now and I'm posing it though to really yeah I obviously people are going to me obviously have an opinion on this I do I do I think that there.
I do I just because I've been you know guess what I'm I now get to potentially site my age as the potential that I have some thoughts and wisdom and seen some things and a lot of.
High up administrators as you point out teacher how.
Over my 30 plus years of being in multiple places and multiple things is that they're not always in any way in some of them are horrible leaders it is just because of the position that they are assumed a leader and realizing there's a huge difference between being in charge and at the top.
And being a leader and maybe this is even to that question you start going why is it that you might have a leader who doesn't need a consultant I don't know.
Right and I also think about then I mean what we haven't talked about but I'll bring back full circle because I think it has to do with our Juneteenth conversation to about.
Also part of this hierarchy in schools is a school board and like do we consider school board members leaders do we consider them more just a position of power and like depending on who's there what they do I mean I know school boards get to hire consultants to know or even legal you know so like it's just.
I mean it's a very layered like issues with an education related to the sense of to leadership.
And you think about it to we got here by talking about Juneteenth Juneteenth if we if we were you know fully in a school right now in session if we were in session would we be even celebrating Juneteenth.
Yeah I mean that's what I'm talking about you know a leader versus an administrator a diplomat versus a bureaucrat and there's a connotation that one's better than the other people yes there is a connotation that one is preferable above the other and I'm okay with that because I've now seen bureaucrats and administrators.
They're really horrible at being diplomatic and and providing a model of leadership.
Sorry you know it's just the reality and you know is that the reason those sometimes too if you're hiring a consultant is it just because you yourself don't have the skill set I think that's one issue or is it also because the skill set you don't have really is leadership.
And so therefore you're hiring somebody to make the hard decisions where a real leader would make those hard decisions when it comes to Juneteenth a real leader if we were in school we would be doing this busted pencils teacher Halley man educators amplified love it.
All right everybody have a great night see y'all tomorrow thanks teacher Ali bye thank you.
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