This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk.
Here are your hosts, Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,
educated educators talking education.
Hey, it is Thursday, May 30th.
Oh, big day, obviously, probably in here all day long.
Stuff to get to to talk about, not only in trending news and education,
but just in general, right?
Here we are, civic media.
This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk.
So we'll get to it.
I'm not even going to say his name right now.
It's probably been said a thousand times already in the last hour.
Listen to your pipe thinking, oh my gosh,
will we get to this, will we talk about it?
We certainly will.
But before that, because I'm not going to let it take the space,
I'm not going to let it get in the way of us at Busted Pencils,
having the kind of conversation and the discussing what is,
but going and daring to be in what ought to be,
not only in conversation, but in action.
And guess what, listener?
Special night, because not only do we have just on the boards,
we got our man back.
Dr. Tim Slecker, Tim, I couldn't be more happy to have you back in this saddle.
Welcome back, my man.
How are you doing?
I'm really proud of me.
I am great, man.
I'm in the moving saddle with people.
If you're watching on the cable you are, the YouTube feed.
And as I was saying, I will never wear this shirt again,
so anybody take your best shots any of you that are watching.
You know, what does it look like I'm wearing for a shirt right now?
I have my own thoughts about it.
But if you have some other ones to make sure,
but yeah, John, been a week, we can talk about it.
You know, Ohio to Wyoming, Wyoming, almost all the way back to Ohio.
Now, seven days on the road with my daughter has been amazing.
What an amazing thing.
I mean, we had dropped some hints that you were both on the road
and that, you know, what an awesome way to experience,
you know, not only the geography of this country,
but some of the really amazing parts of community that are so different
that if you don't get out and you're not able to just experience,
especially like you both have on a road trip,
you just don't get to see so many of the great aspects of this country.
Highlights for us, man, I know we got a lot to get to,
but this is, I mean, like listener is dying to know, I know I've been,
like, yeah, so travel a little bit about 10 or 8.
First stop, Rochester, Minnesota, second stop,
Wall, South Dakota, third stop, Bozeman, Montana,
from Bozeman, Montana down to Jackson, Wyoming,
Jackson, Wyoming to Lincoln, Nebraska, Lincoln, Nebraska, now to Indianapolis,
and tomorrow bring it home seven days on the road, all those, Johnny,
what you're talking about though, the geography.
I have seen the geography of this country.
I have my thoughts about some of the geography of this country.
There's some of this geography that I actually understand why an airplane
makes it so much better.
Oh, man, oh, man, tell me, if anybody's here and right now,
going like he's got to be, yeah, yeah, there's,
there's some spots between, I should say, between where I live and where we went,
where you're just like, oh my god, how do people live out here?
Flat, notaries, just road.
Well, actually, too, when you say about how do people live out here,
we didn't see that many houses.
Yeah, they do, they do.
But John, you made a good point though to talk about saying,
like different cultures, different people,
we have just run into every type of person.
You know, we've done our fair share of eating at either local restaurants,
gas stations.
You name it, we've been there.
We've stayed at our, you know, whether it's a chain hotel,
we've stayed there one night and had the, you know,
really crappy breakfast in the morning.
Really good tasting, but not good for you.
And we've stayed in the mom and pop motels straight out in 1975, you know,
a little go or not there, going to walk it in.
So we've done it all and I tell you what, through this,
I say, it's been a trip and the ability to spend this much time in the car.
I'm going to make her embarrassed with my daughter, but it's been something I'm so happy I've
had the opportunity to do because I have not ever had this time to spend with her
so long and it has been great for me.
I hope she is agreeing at some point.
Well, you know, I'm going to let you guys hear.
No, it's, it's amazing, Tim, and that's, we couldn't be,
we couldn't be happier to hear about it because that is so important.
I mean, we talk about education and we're talking about K-12 and we talk about all that.
But we're also talking about democracy and action, you know, and the role that you're into,
like as, not only as an educator, but as a parent, and you know, when our kids get to
a particular age where, like, parent and friend, and there's nothing better, I'll lay it down.
There's nothing better than a good road trip for any group of friends or any family to kind of,
like, not only experience the diversity of this country, but to bond and to grow.
And it's really important not to get too cheesy on you, but I think it's awesome, man.
You're like, you're really sharing that moment with us in a way and we couldn't be more proud of it.
And you know, I was thinking, as you were naming all those places, you know, I was like,
man, it was not that long ago, like maybe less than a month that I was just able to sit down and
we could enjoy being in the same place together at the Monaco Brewing Company.
But the pencils is sponsored by the Monaco Brewing Company who sued the state of Wisconsin
to end its parasitic voucher system that hurts public schools.
Monaco Brewing Company is making Wisconsin great again.
One beer at a time.
Check out Monaco Brewing Company dot com to see where you can buy their progressive beer.
Tam, man, I'm jealous.
I'm thinking about that.
I wish that I'd have brought some of that progressive beer with me.
However, I will say though, you know, driving across country, the ability to sample micro brews.
If you have that opportunity, lots of local breweries with lots of, lots of good beer.
But again, nothing like the progressive beer at Monaco Brewing.
Well, I'll tell you what to match a challenge.
Challenge accepted if you're out there listening and you know
of a tabernor or a brew who should step up and and become more progressive.
I think Tim, you might be teasing a tabern tour.
Bust of pencils.
Maybe with.
Well, maybe this road trip was also partial scouting for our next on-site location
remote broadcast.
Got some places out there.
Yeah, you know, that was me in your restaurant and your brewery.
That was me.
Yeah, Bust of pencils.
We would love to come out and do a show, remote broadcast.
But Johnny, right now, loving the relationship we have with Monaco Brewery,
I'm so glad you brought that up.
Oh, I tell you.
I tell you what though, yeah, the driving, we can talk about it.
My biggest highlights.
Badlands, Yellowstone.
Oh, yeah.
T-tons, badlands, Yellowstone, T-tons.
Absolutely amazing.
Yeah, I remember the first time I saw the badlands.
And this is important.
I mean, I got to see a lot of American different capacities as a musician,
as someone just traveling as an outdoor enthusiast,
as somebody who's moving my family all the way across the country for a job.
You know, there's just been different reasons to be, you know,
experiencing the diverse, like, geography, the landscape, all the, and the culture.
And the first time I went to the badlands, I'll tell you what, I,
I can't, I mean, I can't even begin to tell you, like, it was mind-blowing.
It was like being on another planet.
It's so cool.
It's like reverse mountains.
I mean, it is something else.
It's, it's reverse, like you said, it's my, my daughter and I, it's, it's a different planet,
you know, it, it is amazing.
And you look at it, you, you look at it and you're just absolutely amazed that,
you know, and people, if you haven't been there, you look now,
you're literally like walking around on like a big sand castle,
essentially, that's, you know, kind of holding itself together there.
But, you know, at any one point, man, I tell you, looking over some of those edges,
I was like, I ain't coming back if I fall down there.
No, don't fall, don't be falling down there.
Hey, did you go to Mount Rushmore?
This is always a question I have when people are hauling across I-90.
Did you go to Mount Rushmore?
So listen, we, some of my, my daughter went to a concert in Montana last summer.
Yeah.
She went and we made, we made the combined decision that since she saw it,
and what I heard was, is everybody who sees it goes, eh, we said, you know what,
let's not do it.
Let's spend more time in the Badlands, Yellowstone, and Teeton.
And so we devoted our time to those three areas, mostly.
Great, great, yeah.
So, because I don't want to do a spoiler alert, but have you been to Mount Rushmore before?
Nope, never been there, man.
Well, you didn't miss a whole lot.
Are you telling me I should, are you telling me I missed something?
Are you telling me I always go to, no, I always go to this, I mean, opinion,
listener, if you're out there and you've been out there, I mean, Tim and I are chopping it up,
because we're also just proving a point that we're not going to, we're not going to come out of the
gate and talk about the same thing.
It's been talked about over and over.
We're going to get to it because it's important, and I know you know what it is.
But listener, if you've traveled out there,
we're curious, have you stopped at Mount Rushmore, especially as a couple of social studies, guys?
I went my first couple of times, and I'll tell you what, I bring everyone I can when we drive
through, I make it a point to stop, because it's like,
so if you've stopped there and you've seen it, like as a kid seen it in my social studies book,
you know, seeing it on like the reader that got passed out, the posters in our school,
you know, I thought, man, this is going to just be phenomenal, just unbelievable to see.
It's going to be massive.
It's going to be, and this is a teaser for the top.
We're going to be, it's going to be huge, it's going to be huge, it's just going to be massive.
But you know what, you get out of your car and you walk and walk and walk and you're like,
man, I don't see it yet, I don't see it yet.
And then you see it, and let me tell you, for anyone who says size doesn't matter, you're wrong.
Because I stopped and I was like, good-ness, my gracious,
hot this make it into every social studies book that I ever had to look at as a kid,
because I'm here, I saw, and I'm not impressed.
And that's not me being anti-patriotic because I do think this is a great country.
I love the people of this country.
I think we have great things, even when we disagree.
This is one of those things that I'm like, man, I've seen cooler stuff.
The question mark, and I pulled off to the mystery spot and and and had more surprise
than when I went to Mount Rushmore.
So you didn't miss much, your daughter saved you.
Time, you saw the cool stuff, you missed that, and you didn't miss a whole lot.
But callers, if you want to call in 855-752-4842, join us, man.
Join us on Bust of Pencils.
We're bringing Tim back into the fold.
He's actually in the saddle or what, you know, 2024 version of the saddle,
you know, and making his way back across the country.
His daughter is, as him and tow, she's man, she's man in the ship,
and they're cruising across the country, headed back, and we're chopping it up here
at Bust of Pencils, talking shop.
We'll come back in just a minute, and we're going to talk Tim a little bit about how we've
been effing with feelings.
So I want to know, you already did share in some fields, but I want to get your take on
what Justin Anya have been laying down, and then educators amplified really amplified yesterday.
So we're going to end with some feelings in just a moment when we come back.
And we are back with a banger
of a song just on the board.
It's always nailing it.
Love that song.
Wolves also love wolves and how thematically appropriate.
The Tim and his daughter making their way across the country from wolf country.
I mean, I love that more and more parts of our United States are becoming wolf country,
you know, but I'll tell you what wolves, some of my most favorite animals,
and one of the longest multi-species relationships with humans, right?
One of the first and longest, so we could throw down on that any day.
I love that tune, wolves.
Love what it brings and the energy that it brings.
Speaking of that energy, though, if you'd like to join the energy,
get on the wave with us here.
We got Tim joining us always, but a special guest today because he's cruising across the country,
but you can call us 855-752-4842 and join the combo.
But Tim, we got to bring you back up to speed.
I know you've probably been listening,
and we want to f with our feels, our feelings.
So we have had an amazing conversation on here,
Jess and Anya laying it down, right?
And then educators amplified last night just dropping wisdom.
Boom, my mind was blowing.
They were doing their thing, teaching teachers,
and talking shop about logic and emotion,
writing reason and neuroscience.
Tim, what do you think about this whole?
We're happy with our feels.
Man, I tell you what, just listen to the feelings,
the logic, the conversation to it.
And Jess and Anya, such awesome stuff to bring to the show.
And educators amplified love always with Halle and teachers, Joanna, or bringing it.
But the idea, too, to help people want to recognize that,
hey, you know, go back there and get yourself straight
so you can start to pay attention and learn the reality
that you guys put that together, going like, wait a minute,
they're not going to.
If we don't f with our feelings, if we don't feel our feelings
and deal with them, we ain't doing any learning.
And that ability to bring that forward is so powerful
that you guys do really appreciate that.
Johnny Wolves, I think it was the only animal
though we didn't see what we were out here.
We saw every other animal you could, we just didn't see any wolves though.
Oh, you didn't see any wolves, but did you hear them?
Yeah, I don't know if I heard them, but I tell you, we just,
yeah, we might have been sleeping.
It was, it's a long time.
But no, I tell you, you know, feelings,
the whole idea of really getting in touch and knowing that,
you know, the way somebody's feeling is going to deeply interact with the way,
you know, you say, even if you're just saying academic schools are for academics,
well, if the emotions aren't right, the academics aren't going to land.
And for you guys to talk about that so clearly, it's so powerfully last,
the last week has been amazing.
And then, Johnny, that interview you did too with the reporter,
or you talked about with gun violence and just the whole idea,
I mean, I have some, you know, some things we talk about here.
But the reality of feeling anxious about gun violence,
that is something I can talk to you more and more about because,
you know, on the conversation and on the trip with my daughter,
she shared with me her real feelings about school safety and guns and violence.
And the reality is, is that she feels very, very unsafe.
And she's graduated high school now for three years.
And she still remembers how unsafe that made her feel.
Powerful, powerful, yeah.
And that's been sort of the theme.
So, one of the things is when you just have a conversation about this and step back a little
for Tim, you and I, who often are in the facts.
And we, we layer in the fields, but, you know, we're, we're, you know,
researchers, we're educators, we're, you know,
professorial about that, even though we're blue collar scholars,
we're also distant from it.
By and large, we went to school in a different time and even taught at a time when I can't even imagine.
I mean, I'm in schools, but in a different role.
And I can't imagine, um, you know, feeling safe and then so many young people.
I hate to just talk about young people, especially when they're right,
right here with us, but like, are saying over and over.
Yeah, you know, you don't feel safe.
Like, it just matter of fact, and there are some real concrete reasons.
And it, and it doesn't matter, as you say, it doesn't matter the rationality and the logic
of explaining still against statistically, how safe they really are.
That doesn't matter.
Yeah, and then we had said, you know, uh, commitment without currency is counterfeit.
It's like, okay, and keep telling us there's a problem,
but do something about it already.
Do something.
Make some change and make things better.
We got a text from Josh from Oshkosh.
Josh, yeah, he said, once you see Crazy Horse and see the history,
not Rushmore loses some awe.
Definitely.
I couldn't agree more.
And the Crazy Horse Memorial is really cool, man.
That love, that is worth stopping to see too.
So awesome things across our country and great.
Oh, it's John from Oshkosh.
My bad, I was going, I was going with the, I just misread that.
Sorry, John, my bad.
John from Oshkosh, I was, I was, I, I read Oshkosh and mixed up the letters inside.
Josh from Oshkosh, but it's John, our guy in Oshkosh.
What a, what a dude.
I'm glad he's sort of resonated that too.
When you know the history, it's fascinating to cross the country.
We could get into it over and over, man, especially as civic teachers,
as social studies guys, and I became fascinated at a certain point,
like talking and learning about the change and the landscape in our country,
via the railroads, right, and the further colonization across this country,
and you really see it, you really feel it when you visit a lot of the places
that we're often going to.
So Tim, man, super cool that you and your daughter are not only on that trip,
but joining us for the special show tonight, I appreciate that.
So I'm thinking now, you know what Tim, like what are some of your thoughts?
Do you have more thoughts about that?
So that's right, for listeners who haven't gotten a chance to listen
back to the past episode.
Last week, I had a great conversation with a legislative reporter,
and she was putting together an article, she was a journalist,
putting together an article about what did I think and what were educators thinking about
in response to a report that came out in the state of Washington,
and it comes out in other states too in some various format that say we have an increased
number of incidents that are related to either violence or involving a weapon.
And so that further got broken down into like incidents with knives, incidents with
with firearms, right, and the result of that.
But Tim, I'm just thinking like for me, my gut reaction was like, I'm not surprised,
although it's sad, it's something I'm not surprised by.
And I think it's part of a larger conversation around not only access to guns,
but the the wig guns are so ingrained, and it's a myth,
ingrained into our culture that we're unsafe, and a response to that unsafety is
having a gun or having a weapon with you.
And what we know statistically is that that's not true,
but then teacher Joanna dropped a mind-blowing thing on me, and she's like, well,
Johnny, remember, when our emotion is overactive, like if we're in white or flight,
our response can be like we're emotionally activated, and we're not in touch with naming
those emotions, and especially if we're young, like the teacher Jo Halley was talking about
our neuroscience, our brains aren't developed fully in the frontal cortex until after the age
28. So we're working from a place where our emotions can override our logics,
right, and that we can't, we can even know better, like as we could tell young people,
you're not safer if you have a weapon, but their emotions say I'm unsafe, I'm afraid,
and out of fear, I'm going to arm myself, and I have to think, Tim, that arming
ourselves is part of a larger cultural myth. That's my take, like how do we look at our community,
and say how can we make not only one another feel safer, but children in our communities?
Well, I think we have to, though, even though, again, I know the emotions rule this, but we have
to give people the sense of, you know, that as you said, the mythology, the good guy,
and the good when we come back.
And we are back on the second half of the hour. Us depensals fully let it education talk,
if you want to join the conversation, call our text 855752 or 842, always love listener when
you're out there doing whatever you're doing, you're gardening, you're at work, you're coming home
from work, you're hanging out at the crib, and you want to join the conversation, you could always
give us a call and join in. And in fact, I think we're going to get to that important kind of
news thing happening today. But before we get into that, or maybe even getting into that, let's get
L.A. Tom, our guy, on, we got L.A. Tom on the phone.
Hey, Johnny. First off, we, the people, ultimately, are the government, and we must never forget that.
Second, you know, I'm not gleeful that this happens today, but I do feel that there is a, um,
finally, um, you know, equal justice under the law. And I hope for all of the fair minded and the
good minded and the parents out there that have children that they say they care about and care
about climate change and care about these different things. I hope that they can look at
children in the eye if they do vote for a convicted felon. And they actually can look in the eye
say, I voted for a convicted felon. And I'm sorry. Um, because that's really, you know,
it's either authoritarian dictator and a convicted felon or someone that actually believes in
democracy and believes in we the people being the government. And I think that's a very
important thing to be teaching, you know, all of the teachers and educators out there that like you
always say, you know, what we're democracy warriors is what we are. We're democracy warriors and
we have to continue to, uh, you know, keep on, um, fighting the good fight. And I will tell you
right now if it would have been a democratic person in the same exact situation, I would have
wanted the same exact thing to happen to them. I am not my partisan in the way that both parties
are bought off by the same people, but I am a fair person. And I think that those jurors were
actually fair too because they saw the evidence and the proponents of the evidence was so overwhelming
that they could not do anything but, uh, come back with a, uh, guilty verdict. And I really didn't
think that was going to happen. And I'm really happy to know that here in this country we still do
have a justice system and we still do have a court system. And I think now people are seeing from,
as I always talk about nursery rhymes and nursery tales, um, people now see that the emperor truly
has no clothes. And, um, I think they're going to start seeing that day by day by day that the
whole Republican Party is really wearing no clothes. And there are some Democrats in the same, uh,
um, bane, but the approaching parties are not the same at all. Um, because if they were, I wouldn't
have obamacare right now. I would not be alive. If they were, I would not be married to my husband
right now. Well, we've been together for 20 years and married for seven years. Um, a lot of those
things that I even had to stop in the last two weeks and look back on and say, you know what?
There is a difference between these two parties. And, um, I hope people see that. So thank you guys so
much. I know I haven't been on for a while. Um, but, uh, and you didn't take a break actually from some
of the politics stuff and, uh, get reenergized and let's reenergize me today about our democracy.
And also, I would actually recommend everyone donate $34, uh, into the Democratic Party to
Tammy Baldwin, um, or to, uh, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris today, even though we got to get money
out of politics, today will be a good day to donate $34. Thank you guys so much. I have a great,
great day. Thanks, Johnny. Oh, awesome, man. Yeah. Tom, I always appreciate calls from LA Tom,
really appreciate your call and what you shared here tonight. I couldn't agree more. There is, uh,
uh, a very distinct difference. And I doubt I need to give the update, uh, you know, uh, what Tom
was referring to in terms of things, but just in case you might as well. Um, you know, today,
pretty historic moment in the terms that, you know, Trump was convicted. A New York jury found
Donald Trump guilty of falsifying business records and effort to conceal a harsh money payment
to a porn star ahead of the 2016 presidential election. So the jury found Donald Trump guilty.
What's that mean? You know, kind of, it, it means a lot. It's pretty symbolic in terms of,
you know, Tom broke it down well. It means that, yeah, we actually do have a really critical.
And I want to emphasize that critical election ahead of us this November. All elections are important.
This one though, I mean, I don't think I'm exaggerating or applying hyperbole here. When I say,
we have democracy in the ICU right now. It is on life support. And this is a matter. And I'm not,
I know it sounds like hyperbole, but this is really a matter of, uh, are we pulling the plug
on democracy? And are we voting for a convicted felon? And, you know, if he continues to run,
which I pretty, I'm pretty sure given, you know, all the information we have about,
about Trump is that he will continue to run and people will continue to support him. But I like
the way L.A. Tom broke it down. I hope grown folks out there, right? Have the, uh, you know,
the moral fiber, the wider weakness that they have to actually answer to their children and their
children's children, the future generations to say, yeah, you know what? I voted for a convicted
felon, which means something. Now that said, I, you know, for an update for folks, you can run for
president of the United States as a convicted felon felon. And there are probably instances where
I think I believe heavily and restorative justice, heavily and like that people can change,
especially with some of the kinds of convictions we have out there, uh, for different offenses. Uh,
but in this case, I think, you know, line up the facts. It's not only that you voted for a convicted
felon, it's the kind and type of person that was convicted of a felon and is likely guilty of
even worse, you know, things in society. And, and, and I like what Tom said, you know, um, that he
hopes folks have to think about that and that they choose to set an example of make a choice, uh,
you know, from the point of supporting democracy, right? And so little bit of,
so where are we at? What does that mean? Right? So Trump was, you know, got a guilty verdict today,
right? And but that does not quite make him a convicted felon yet. Just want to report on that
because, you know, I'm getting a lot of different media, uh, input all day. As as I mentioned at
the top of the hour, you know, we're not going to start off talking about this because it's probably
dominated all of our media views and all of our conversations for most of today. Uh, but we are
going to get to because it is historic and it is important. This is civic media. This is fully
let it education talking. This has very real implications for education, not only as a teachable
moment, right? Because there are a lot of kids still in school. So being able to make sense of this
as a social studies teacher or any kind of teacher, that's addressing current events, you know,
this idea that he was convicted, uh, but found guilty, right, of, by a jury, right? So explaining
our judicial process, which LA time referred to has really important, right? You have a right in
this country to a trial by peers, right? I do believe, you know, the coming months, there'll be a lot
of talk about was it biased? Was it not by all these things that, you know, the mud will be raked,
right? The muck raking begins, but, uh, and, you know, and I shouldn't even say begins, it's been
going, uh, but technically, right? There'll be a sentencing likely in July, right? But that, so
he won't be a convicted felon until the sentencing in July. What does that mean? That means that,
like, once you're found guilty by your, by a, by a jury, right? Then it goes before a judge. And so
it's in the hands of a New York judge, right? To determine the sentencing. So after that sentencing,
it will be official as a convicted felon, right? And I want to emphasize this does, you know,
this does not prevent Donald Trump from running for president. So LA time comes in hot every time,
reminding us that this is a government we, the people for the United States of America, right?
Like a government for the people, by the people, that puts it in our hands. Again, I'm coming back
to this as a critical election that puts it in our hands, democracy and action, the citizens of
this country. Ironically, Donald Trump should he be fully convicted by the judge when his sentencing
happen happens will not be allowed to vote. So again, like, you know, we ask ourselves, and, and I
might be a little more pessimistic than some of my, you know, my peers who are rejoicing today,
saying this will, you know, this will likely, you know, be a massive turn in how the election,
you know, the campaigning will go and how the election will go. You know, I think we are at a
historic moment in this country where we say, do we care about democracy? Do we care about the kind
of leader we have? If we do, it would be absurd to vote for Donald Trump. If you want to join the
conversation 8557524842, but we got a guy who is joining the conversation. He was already on
the conversation, but I think I got, I think Tim, Tim, you're on the phone?
I'm calling you from the phone, man. That's maybe a little more stable. What is it? You know,
so many things, though, I got a comment on Trump and L.A. Tom got a level he called all the time.
But, you know, Johnny, from, seriously, from the standpoint of a teaching time right here,
what you're talking about, okay? So he's been, you know, found guilty by a jury. He's going to be
sentenced and then it'll be that, but the idea too, this is just a traditional civics lesson and
you hinted at it with, by one way, saying, yeah, he'll be allowed to run for president,
but he won't be allowed to vote. You just think about that. It's like qualifications to run for
office. We teach that in civics 101 at any point. I remember teaching my fifth graders.
What does it mean to be eligible to serve for the president of the United States, the vice
president? There's a whole list of requirements. The Constitution puts forward about what has to
be in place before you can run. Guess what? Being, and even if he is, quote, convicted in July,
being convicted, felon does not forbid anybody from running. It just forbids them from voting.
Students and kids are going to want to ask questions about saying, why is it this way, Mr. So-and-so-and-Mrs.
Teacher? I don't understand why it's confusing, Johnny. So we've got to be able to explain to kids
tomorrow in school all of the nuances here and to help say it is confusing. Yes, he can run,
but he can't vote. What does that mean? How does these laws come into play? What a great time.
Not a great time in American history, but what a great time to teach civics.
Yeah, I agree with you. And teaching civics is teaching about current events and sometimes
controversial current events. So it is going to be discussed in classrooms. I'm positive it is.
You know, I think CNN 10 closed down for the year, which is one of the ways current,
like a lot of students across this country get current events. So it is in the hands of teachers.
If you're a teacher and you're thinking about, how am I teaching about that? Reach out in
contact us. We'd love to hear from you. How are you teaching about it? Even if it's, you know,
it doesn't have to be today. It can be anytime this week or even next week. How are you teaching
current events? Tim, I'm going to put you on hold. We're going to bring you back, but I'm going to
bring in Joanne from Madison. Joanne, college Joanne from Madison on the phone. So Joanne, join the
conversation. Right. The teaching is done for the semester for me, but what I would bring up would
be that Illinois has had four of the most recent 10 governors in prison, Lagoyevich,
Ryan, Walker, and Kernner, all landed up in prison. And so there's a memory of justice for
everybody that is at least in Illinois and whatever the settings that have had such an experience.
And I think it's a wonderful teaching experience for everybody, but I think the best point was from
Dr. Donnie and saying that the rehabilitation of Donald Trump should be what we're emphasizing.
If we can have that spirit and in our prayers and all that, just say, we would like to rehabilitate
this person. And at some point, this person would apologize for some of the things that we're done.
I think that would be a great way to raise it all in our perspectives and enlighten us for the
future. Yeah. Joanne, thanks for calling. Always love listening to calls and, and, you know,
contributes to Joanne. Thank you for that. I agree. You know, and I'm not, and for me,
I'll just kind of kind of spill a little more personally here. You know, every dollar I have
it's day, maybe it'll be in front of a jury, right? But more so, I mean, I'm more interested in
and someone like Donald Trump's accountability, not only to this like he broke the law with the
hush money. Okay, great. But I think I'm like, like, like, small peanuts to me. I want him to say,
like, you know what, I have made it harder for people to be in this community. I have, you know,
you know, made, made, opened massive doors to increased racism and hate and these kinds of things.
You know, we'll jump back into that. We got to go to break. When we come back, busted pencils.
Oh, and we are back fully-ledged education talk, busted pencils. Dr. Johnny here got Dr. Tim
Slacker on the phone. We'll get to Tim in just a moment. Collar Joanne last last segment, you know,
brought up, you know, the importance of restorative justice of rehabilitation. You know, as myself,
as an abolitionist, you know, I don't think our criminal injustice system fixes this stuff.
And often cases makes it worse. And so what kind of I was getting at the end of that sentiment is,
you know, I would, when we talk rehabilitation or, you know, restoration, I really agree with
Joanne, like an apology and not an apology for, you know, getting caught. That's one of the worst
kinds of apologies we could ever do, you know, when we've done wrong. But a true apology in terms of,
here's the ways I've caused harm. Here's the ways I've perpetuated. And so for me, I don't expect it.
I don't, you know, I don't hold hope that Donald Trump has this kind of turn, you know, but,
but in general, I don't want to slip into the absoluteism of saying, you know, like,
like if you're convicted of a felony, there's no hope for you. I hold little little to no hope for
Donald Trump because with given plenty of opportunity to say, hey, I've done some real harm.
You know, I've perpetuated really hurtful things, you know, I've advocated for harming not
only a democracy, but people in that democracy. And there isn't a democracy without the diverse
people that constitute it. And I want to give big props to call our LA Tom to LA Tom. And thanks for
calling in, but also thanks for sharing that realization too, right? That, like, congratulations on
20 years with your husband and also seven years of marriage. Just want to emphasize that 20 years
together, seven years married. My guess and I'm making a hunch and I'm not asking you to call in
and share more of your personal life, right? That's up to you to have, but I appreciate that you
did share because it's a reminder for folks out there that I doubt that LA Tom and his husband
waited, you know, 13 years to get married. They were not allowed to be married for a majority
of that 20 years they've been together. That's also something that when I'm, you know, when I'm
held accountable to children and my children's children, that I hope voters out there realize,
like, the world is changing. We are acknowledging people in different ways and that they matter and
that they value how they feel. Again, we're effing with our feelings here on blessed pencils,
how they feel, how they love who they choose to do that with and, you know, and in essence,
not harming anybody, right? The bringing positive, generative contributions to a rich democracy
and the fact that that that that formally acknowledging that in something like marriage
was illegal for most of my life is absolutely ridiculous. The fact that young women, right,
I have daughters that I need to be the kind of voter that's setting precedent and being held
accountable to the fact that right now their reproductive rights are not only under attack,
but really seriously threatened. I never thought in my lifetime, we'd be faced with this and I
talked to doctors, I talked to nurses, I talked to people from all across the political spectrum
who are in shock that we are at this day and age, right, making kinds of laws and rolling back
progress to harm women, to harm people who identify differently in our community. It just doesn't seem
like something a healthy democracy would be doing. So Tim, we got you on the on the phone,
Tim, you want to hop in here? You want to get part of the conversation as we close out busted pencils
on this fine Thursday? Absolutely. First thing I wanted to tell you was I'm sorry that I made you
feel that way. Is that a good apology? No, but I'm sorry. Wait, I'm sorry that you feel that way.
You know, do you think about that and the apology? Yeah, he's not going to do that. He's not going
to have any accountability. I like how you connected the whole idea of saying, does he have the
ability to have any rehabilitation or just the system? No, it's not about a rehabilitation system.
I don't know though that this person is really ever going to be rehabilitated because I would
say the biggest thing, you know, I wouldn't have the more and more I've thought about this trial.
I don't think I would have pressed charges. I actually agree with some commentators. I'm saying
if it'd been better off to just even if Biden could have just stepped up and said it's all over.
I'm giving him a pardon no matter what. And then let's make this election about ideas because
right now, boy, I'm telling you what, I'm thinking that this actually works in Donald Trump's
favor and that, you know, as much as Tom's right, that we hope people do vote and when they look
at their children, they can say how and who they voted for and why they did vote for a convicted
film or why they did, I think there are going to be lots more people now who are on that side of
going, I'm going to vote for them now just because they convicted him. And that's a real concern, man.
Absolutely. And man, are we lucky to be able to be having this conversation? Jess and I on the
break, we're talking about like, wow, also, let's remember historical moment here, right? Like to
break this news, you know, Jess was talking about being in the studio today when it came out.
And it's an emotional moment. Fortunately, for most of us, it's emotional and a fully developed
frontal cortex as neuroscience lesson from yesterday said like we can hold logic and emotion
together. So, you know, it's, it's, it's an important moment. L.A. Tom says, I can't believe I'm
disagreeing with him for the first time in history. It's okay because, you know, what? Sometimes we
disagree, right? Jess, we have conversations for the sake of abins. Healthy arguments. Yeah,
healthy arguments is part of a democracy, but you know where you can have that kind of conversation
and where we can convene together, especially when we're all in Madison or if we're up north
and Monaco, you can go to the Monaco Brewing Company because bus depensals is sponsored by the
Monaco Brewing Company, who sued the state of Wisconsin to end its parasitic voucher system that
hurts public schools. Monaco Brewing Company is making Wisconsin great again. One beer at a time.
Check out MonacoBrewingCompany.com to see where you can buy their progressive beer.
Tim, you're still there, my guy. Hey, you know, there it is. I, yeah, who knew that Tom and I would
disagree. I, you know, and I'm just coming to this realization. I don't disagree with the
conviction and being held accountable in the way, you know, the jury system and no one's supposed
to be above the law. But man, I just, I don't know. I mean, this guy has written all the rules in
a different way. And it's almost like you got to kind of play by a different rulebook if you're
going to beat him. And right now, it might be that actually, you know, his legal woes just
continue to create more and more support for him. And I'm, I'm more frightened of another
term with Donald Trump than anything. And so right now, I just kind of look at this. And so any,
any publicity he gets to me. The people that supported supported even more. So yeah, and we're
probably going to have to come back to that conversation to Tim. We got lots of text from LA Tom.
LA Tom, we'll bring you back in the fall because we're going to continue this conversation.
Tomorrow on busted pencils, when we're back, listener, we love you. Check you soon.