This is Busted Pencils, fully leaded education talk.
Here are your hosts, Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci, educated educators talking education.
Ah, there it is, busted pencils, fully leaded education talk.
Educated educators talking education.
Monday, Johnny Lupinacci.
How are you?
We are here, man.
One week since we did the show together in Madison.
So, you know, I'm missing our Monday show last week where we could stand in the same studio and, you know, chop it up live and in person, but we're back at it.
And I believe it or not, Tim, we had graduation this weekend.
So a couple hundred future teachers walked that graduation ceremony.
It was fantastic.
I loved seeing watermelons on the top of the caps.
I love that kind of, you know, get my voice out there, show my thing, but also celebrate this accomplishment of walking.
And then it's spring and I'm working with our MIT.
So I'm teaching five days a week now, Tim.
Oh, man.
So that's five days a week.
I'm back in the classroom five days a week.
for a May semester we call it.
It's a it's a condensed course for our future teachers.
So I love being in the classroom.
I love being on bus and pencils and tonight is
a special night because it's special night first of all because this is the beginning teacher appreciation week teachers out there.
This is it man.
This is where you know I remember teacher appreciation week and I said my very first year teaching one of my students came in with a
Yeah, she was a second grader, brought in a brown paper bag and put it on my desk, you know, with a bump and said, my mom said, my mom and dad said, you'll like this, but don't open it in school.
And you know what?
That was, that was some real appreciation, man.
I love that.
So out there.
It is, yes, it's Dr. Nancy Carlson Page.
You all hear her laughing.
Matt Damon's mom, she's there.
We're not going to get into what would Matt Damon's mom say yet, because all three of us are talking about Teacher Appreciation Day.
And Johnny put together, Nancy, the comment saying, why don't we appreciate one of our favorite teachers, Johnny?
Is that how you framed it?
Yeah.
I
mean, we talked about it today.
Well, first I woke up and I saw it as a Google Doodle.
So it reminded me because, you know, I kind of always like, Hey, teacher appreciation week is every week, but this is a special one because it's a reminder because not, we're not always appreciative of all of our teachers.
And, and man, they are out there on the grind, really working, making a difference.
And so you said, Hey, it's teacher appreciation week.
Let's talk about other shows that absolutely.
What if we shared a memory or just a shout out to one of our favorite moments?
with a teacher who has influenced our life.
You want
to do that?
Should we do that?
Yeah, because when you put that out there, it was, you know what, to me, instantly.
So if you don't mind, I'm going to jump in first.
Mr. Lawrence, fourth grade teacher, 1970s something.
And Mr. Lawrence has the 1970s.
permed afro and his hair beard and mustache.
And at that time was okay for teach to smoke cigarettes while they were teaching us in fourth grade.
But
He was the most compelling teacher I had ever had.
He was my first male teacher in elementary school.
And his inspiration, I credit him with saying, he is the person that inspired me to become a teacher.
So Mr. Lawrence, and I actually, I called people back where I was, where I went to elementary school and they said, yeah, Mr. Lawrence is still there.
So put it out there.
Mr. Lawrence, man, I appreciate you.
Thank you so much.
How's that?
Nancy Carlson Page, what about you?
Well, the teacher who influenced my life the most wasn't ever in a classroom.
It was my best friend Howard Zinn and everything I learned from how he was on the front porch or the back porch steps.
And he trained me to be a politically, socially conscious person and an activist.
But I also wanted to tell you that I went to a book talk three days ago from a teacher I've known for years.
Her new book just came out.
I want her to be on your show.
Kathy Greeley, it's called Testing Education.
This is a memoir from a teacher describing her teaching, which I have personally observed as incredible, in middle school before ed reform and then as a result of ed reform.
And it's a painful story, but it's an honest, true one.
It's the only
book I know of from a teacher about the effects of ed reform on their work.
So I hope you'll invite Kathy and I'm just saying a shout out to her because it's been amazing that she wrote this book and is having the influence already that she's having.
And she still is teaching now too, you're saying?
No, she retired a couple years ago, but she's very involved in all the education issues going on in Massachusetts.
So pre-ed reform, ed reform, Johnny Lupinacci, your shout out.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, wow, I'm just excited because too, I'm on the keyboard quickly looking up, uh, testing education.
What a phenomenal book.
I'm going to grab that and listen to it because I love learning from teachers.
When I thought about teacher appreciation day and I, you know, I've been thinking a lot about what kindergarten and first grade teachers across
our
country do now and have been doing for just decades and decades.
So.
I'm going to have to take a shout out to Mrs. Palmer.
I have no idea where she is or what she's doing, but I will say she taught me to read.
She's my first grade teacher.
She showed compassion towards me.
I was a very difficult child in a working class.
I was in timeouts all the time and being shouted at often.
And she's one of the first and only probably elementary teachers I had.
You know, I'll give an era.
The Tigers had won the world series.
So for folks up there with sports trivia can figure out my age and time, but this is, uh, you know, she was one of the few who was able to harness my ADHD and able to direct me in ways that one I learned and two, I felt good about who I was.
And I learned a whole lot about how I behaved also impacted others.
And
the lessons I learned in first grade carried me quite far.
And I would say even into adulthood,
I can hear Mrs. Palmer sitting me down with calm, regulated energy and teaching me how to be in community with other people as a learner.
And so I
got
to shout out to first grade teachers out there because I know you do this for so many students.
You see them, they're all wrapped up in energy and they're running around, you know, and they're going bonkers in your classroom and you figure out a way, hopefully, to recognize who they are.
to show them that they're valued in the world, but that it's not anything goes and that we have to, you know, kind of be kind to ourselves and others and be our best learner selves.
And so shout out to Mrs. Palmer and to really in general, every kindergarten first grade teacher out there because you are making it so that these young people can be in community together as learners appreciate you.
That teachers, thank you so much for everything you do truly busted pencils.
Man, we bust the answers for all the teachers out there.
Man, you know, though, thinking about that, John, you made me think about this first grade and teaching.
You said teaching to read.
There is a big movement right now in America, the stance of the sign of this, which really started in this idea of the science of reading.
We've had our friend, Paul Thomas, come on to talk a little bit about that, about the science of reading.
And you know,
Well, here it is.
It's it's the first Monday of the month.
And you know what the first Monday of the month is?
Jeez, when we have an important topic and we have a question, we have our go to.
What would Matt Damon's mom say about the science of reading?
Dr. Nancy Carlson Page, what do you think about?
What is this science of reading stuff?
Tell us, help us, understand.
I'm sure you you know and probably.
Many people listening know that this isn't a new thing There have been like for a hundred years or more and for the five decades since I came into education There have been what have have now been called the reading wars, right the reading wars And they cycle through their cyclical they depend on convincing people that we have a reading crisis and then we have to solve it and Then there's attention created
Basically, it's always been essentially between phonics first people, people who think phonics should be directly taught to kids and skills based, and people who have a more whole language or balanced literacy approach, looking at a more holistic way of teaching reading.
And it shows up in different ways.
But this one, what's happening right now, which is the latest iteration of this ongoing cyclical contention.
is scarier in the sense that it's built on absolutely nothing.
This word science has been appropriated to describe this, but there is no science.
I have spent days, you guys, days trying to get to the bottom of this movement, trying to find the research, to find the sun.
There are no citations in what they, it's all.
BS I mean they are just saying things that is coming out of nothing credible I can't find any solid research basis for what their claims are but and first of all the whole thing came out as a result of This journalist Emily Hanford with a podcast she had called sold a story that is
just full of misconceptions and falsehoods.
And if you listen to it, I mean, it's alarming because this is my field, early literacy.
I taught it to graduate students at Lesley University for 35 years.
This is my field.
And I'm telling you, what's happening right now is so harmful for kids because it's resulting in basically top-down phonics-based reading instruction at the expense of
comprehension and meaning and other language experiences that play a significant role in learning to read.
Not everybody learns the same way.
So, Nance, it sounds to me like you've got a little bit of knowledge on this thing, 35 years of teaching early literacy, because when I hear the science of, people are always putting it out there.
First of all, as you said, the appropriation of that term is to, quote, qualitatively convince people that, hey, it's science, so it's good.
And then of reading.
But as you point out too, early literacy, I have, though, have heard staunch, staunch.
radical, you know, kind of defense of the science of reading, particularly in the name of young pre, you know, pre kindergarten, kindergarten, first grade students is saying it is an absolute necessity that we science of reading all younger kids.
Thoughts?
Well, many states, I think it's 27 even have passed legislation mandating the science of reading.
So it's it's happening.
I mean, it's happening all across the country.
It's been it's it's a hype.
It's a media hype Okay, it's a propaganda campaign and people are falling for it legislators are falling for it there But if you look carefully, there is no not only is there isn't any credible research that connects to instruction in reading It's a very complicated field
with a lot of, there've been thousands of studies on reading.
But also there is no, there's no research that connects reading that shows any reading instruction program is better than any other.
So that's also a falsity.
There's a whole range of them.
Teachers need to know all this stuff and be able to apply it to any given kid like Johnny.
A teacher needs to know how
to
work with a kid like that.
and all the other kids in the room and it's not one size fits all approach.
It's not Nancy.
We're going to hold you over.
My name is mom.
Okay.
There it is.
Bust the pencils fully.
Let it.
Education talk.
It's all because of you.
That's you teachers.
It's teacher appreciation week.
Busted pencils is appreciating you.
Right now, though, first Monday of the month, what would Matt Damon's mom say about the sign reading?
We're really, really tight on that last segment.
And so Nancy agreed to just give us the final thoughts and to let us know that, hey, the first Monday of June, we're going to really dig deeper.
And so you were talking about the kind of the top-down mandated approach to this curriculum.
And what I hear this is just wondering if you think.
isn't this just a mandate to sell a whole bunch of curriculum for curriculum providers that they're really like you're saying there's no science it's become a mandate to sell curriculum that may or may not do it okay
millions of dollars are made on the curriculum packages that result from the cyclical arguing about how to teach reading and no and scores don't change
So the other thing is this movement is a distraction from facing the real issues, the social factors that contribute to poor reading scores.
And that has to do with poverty.
And that has
to do
with inequality.
And those things don't get addressed.
And it's very easy then for legislators to say, oh, we're going to solve all the problems.
Schools can solve social problems.
So we'll solve the problem of reading by.
mandating the science of reading, and we're going to just take care of the low scores.
And that isn't how it's going to happen, because if you look at any zip codes or states with low scores, it's all from lower income places.
And just a nod to teacher appreciation.
I know that when teachers get mandated, another approach, it so undermines their professionalism and disrespects everything they know.
all the work they've done to tool up to be teachers and understand how to teach reading and then people who don't even understand or have the background the teachers have about how to do it come along and tell them how to do it and it's very very discouraging and so teachers thank you for hanging in there and hopefully you can keep teaching reading the way you know and you don't have to follow this.
That's Dr. Nancy Carlson Page.
Yes.
What would Matt Damon's mom say about the science of reading?
Well, you just heard it.
Nancy, and you know what?
We appreciate you as probably one of our favorite teachers, too.
Right, Johnny?
I would say so.
Yeah, we appreciate you having you on the show, but also sharing all your wisdom with us and our listeners.
So, Nancy, thanks for busting pencils with us.
Well, thanks for having me and thanks for doing what you guys are doing and caring about kids.
Thank
you,
Nancy.
All right, Johnny.
So, wow.
You know, we couldn't just let that hard ending with Nancy be in the first segment.
We had to get her to come back and at least put that final bit of wisdom out there for us.
And so, always appreciate Nancy Carlson's page coming on this show.
But you know, Johnny, too, a full show because people have been reaching out
But a few weeks ago I interviewed the provost and the dean at western michigan university about a grow your own teacher program And it's phenomenal, you know julia julia julian and laura the dean and the provost man Ran just went on about like michigan moving in a direction to finally say we're gonna address the teacher shortage Yeah, I said I said, you know what I want to have
some of these Grow Your Own candidates on.
And guess what we got today?
We sure do.
We can talk a lot about how this is happening, but what better than, especially in Teacher Appreciation Week, having one of the Grow Your Owns from Western Michigan University, we have with us Alex.
Alex,
what's happening, Alex?
Hey, it's great to be here.
So, Alex, let me do a little bio for you, because what I— You have a unique story in this Grow Your Own Approach, because I think most listeners are going to be like, whoa, wait, what?
He's already a teacher?
Yeah, he's a fourth grade teacher at Ryan Intermediate at Gaulay Community Schools in Richland, Michigan.
This is his fourth-year teaching.
He's also the building's leader and me coordinator, which is your version of the School Improvement Chair.
You're working, though, towards your master's in literacy studies.
through the grow your own at Western Michigan, you plan on graduating in spring of 2025.
So Alex, welcome to Busted Pencils.
Hey, thank you for inviting me on.
This is going to be great to share.
It's the second time you just got introduced and welcome to Busted Pencils.
Okay, Alex, but when I say that, so you already are a fourth grade teacher, and Johnny just said, so first of all, yeah, hats off man, appreciation dude.
Loving it.
I hope you got a whole bunch of love today in that first day of Teacher Appreciation Week.
How though, explain to me the Grow Your Own standpoint for a teacher who's already been a teacher, what it is that you are doing, literacy studies, just give us a sense of how the Grow Your Own program works with you, already a licensed teacher in the state of Michigan.
Yeah, so for myself,
Like you said, I'm already currently teaching.
I have my undergraduate degree in elementary education and coming out of that, I knew someday down the road, I wanted to go back and get a master's degree to further my own education so I can better serve my students.
But at the time, I really didn't give myself like a hard timeline of, oh, an X number of years, I'm going to go back.
It was just kind of a thing that was out there that I eventually wanted to do.
And then this Grow Your Own came along about a year ago.
There was kind of some rumblings going around that the state was going to be funding this and districts could apply for it.
And that spurred me on of, hey, if I'm going to go for it, this is the opportunity for the state to cover that tuition for us is a game changer.
So that kind of spurred me along maybe a little quicker than I would have, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity.
So
As an undergrad, my focus was on math.
You had to pick one content area at Western Michigan to focus on.
And coming out of COVID and just generally I felt that literacy studies was an area that students had a lot of need, especially the gaps after COVID being virtual and everything.
So that seemed like a natural fit and it was one of the programs that was offered because you couldn't just go get a master's for anything at all.
It had to be an area of need as defined by the state.
So
I went ahead with the literacy studies and, initially, our district actually did not get the first round of funding.
It was so highly sought after that they didn't have enough money to go around.
But at that point, I was like, hey, our district said they're going to reapply a second round.
It'll be retroactive.
So I'm just going to get started with it.
And it kicked in this, actually, this summer semester will be my first semester covered under it.
So you went, yeah, you went for it.
Johnny Gupinacci, right?
Do you hear the uniqueness in this program?
He's already a licensed teacher, but using Grow Your Own, and I think this is what I heard, Alex, it's a critical need literacy studies.
And so using that, I love the innovation on that because I tell you, the Grow Your Own in a couple of the states that I'm aware of, it is very much in one way, it is only to increase the number of licensed teachers and teachers with a license need not apply.
This, what Alex is talking about at Western Michigan with his school district, though, is saying, in Michigan, then it feels like to me they're going, not only do we have a shortage and we want to grow our own teachers, but we have areas that we really want our teachers to get that extra professional development, that extra license, that extra credential, because we know there are gaps.
Here's Alex out there saying, I'm already a teacher.
I would love to get a master's degree.
I love the whole idea.
First of all, of you getting a master's degree already because, man, that's a whole other conversation in teacher education because in a lot of states, they try to do away with teachers and master's degrees because it doesn't do anything worthwhile.
We are talking, though, to Alex Bohr, fourth grade teacher in Michigan, Western Michigan.
Grow your own candidate fourth grade teacher.
Moving on.
Not moving on yet, but getting his master's degree in literacy studies, critical shortage area.
Alex, when we get back, we're going to dig deep, though.
And I truly, I want you to talk to me about when we get back, why a master's degree, why it matters.
Yes, sir.
Let's
do it.
Well, that's what we're doing.
We're having Alex tell us everything.
It's busted pencils, fully leaded education talk.
Educated educators talking, education, Michigan, Western Michigan University, grow your own.
Talking to Alex Bohr, fourth grade teacher in Michigan, using grow your own funding to pursue his master's degree in literacy studies.
Alex, and I said before the break, I'm like, okay, master's degree.
Have you heard any of the, you know, a lot of, for a long time now, people have been saying, well, teachers don't need master's degrees.
It doesn't do anything to help their students.
Any thoughts on that kind of, or have you heard anything like that?
Yeah, I mean, outside of like the
education.
Yeah.
In the programs, you know, a lot of times even the professor start to plug.
So when you come back for a master's eventually, it's kind of like, Hey, let me finish one thing at a time here.
But yeah, I do, I do hear some of that every now and then.
And kind of the thing that I come back to is, you know, we as teachers believe that everyone is a lifelong learner, including ourselves.
And so if I can find different opportunities, whether it's through a formal master's degree or just other.
development opportunities to continue to grow myself as an educator to be better every year with whatever content I have.
You know, I want to pursue those opportunities and a master's degree, while it is a large thing to take on, it also can provide a lot of other opportunities for me as a teacher.
You know, I plan to still stay in the classroom with my degree, but I could also take that to be like a reading specialist or other interventionists and things like
that.
Well, so when you grow your own, just, you know, we'll lay it out there.
So the idea here in Michigan, though, too, it's not just a shortage of teachers, but they're saying there's a shortage of critical areas too within the teachers.
So you're responding to that by taking the master's degree and adding on that reading in literacy, literacy studies, reading specialist type of credential certification.
How did you...
You said you, you know, like, yeah, I'm thinking about my master's degree.
But I mean, how did you find out about the Grow Your Own program?
You said you did your undergraduate at Western Michigan.
Was it a connection there?
I mean, how did you find out and just talk us through how you become a Grow Your Own candidate?
So in our district, they actually sent communications out to all staff probably year, year and a half ago saying, hey, this program is coming.
We're going to apply for the funding, but we need to know how many people in the district
want to pursue this.
So they had a little form that we had to fill out and submit to them saying, do you want to do this?
Where would you want to do this?
What programs would you want to do?
And then they use that data to be able to submit to the state and say, here's the amount of people that we want or that are interested and here's the amount of money we would need to do that.
So that process kind of started and then they got back to us with, here are the colleges that we're partnering with and obviously Western Michigan was one of them, I believe.
Central Michigan was one, which to me, that's a rival.
So can't go there.
And so I believe there was a third one that I'm blanking on right now.
It might have been MSU, but basically for me already going to Western as an undergrad, I was very familiar with a lot of the professors there, very familiar with their online learning system.
And so it was just kind of a natural fit to continue there.
And so then once we kind of submitted.
on our behalf, like here's our interest and what we want to do the district and some of our representatives took it from there.
Nice.
Well, Alex, you spurred a call or call or Justin from Stillwater.
Justin, hey, Justin, what's happening?
Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call.
I appreciate it.
So I just was interested, what do we think Mick Jagger meant by, you know, the governor of Georgia or wherever he is?
that he is a tyrant of some sort and somebody who is intolerant.
Justin, I think that might be on a different show we're talking about right there.
We're talking grow your own candidates in the state of Michigan.
Anya, if you just maybe check in with Justin and see where, you know, if he wants to bring us in there.
But Alex, that happens sometimes, Alex.
Man, I thought I'm like, Alex, Alex got somebody coming out there wanting to figure out where they could sign up for grow your own.
Okay, it's a scholarship.
So it's expensive to get a master's degree.
What?
conditions are there then for you, Alex, to get the funding for this?
I mean, what are you agreeing to?
What are you saying?
You know, because typically, you know, there ain't no free lunch, right?
So, okay, so you got to be telling the state, you know what, like, give us your commitment, because is this 100% of your tuition for your master's degree is funded as long as you do this?
Yes, 100% is funded and there are some stipulations that come along with it.
Like you have to stay within the state of Michigan for a certain number of years after you complete districts can also add like other stipulations of if you're going to do this through our district, you have to teach in our district for a certain amount of time.
Ours to my knowledge did not add that certain thing in there.
Just kind of like, hey, we're growing educators.
And if you happen to get your masters in a couple of years, life circumstances come up and you move somewhere else.
They're not going to hold that against us.
But for the state itself, they're kind of saying, hey, we're putting up this money and we want to invest in Michigan teachers.
So we're going to require that you can't just finish your masters on our dime, go teach another state kind of thing, which to me makes sense.
If you're willing to fund it, you've got to be able to get a little bang for your buck as well.
Johnny, Alex said one of your favorite words, invest.
Well, yeah.
And I think these are great programs.
You know, they're thinking forward about keeping teachers not only in the classroom and building their, you know, professional skill set.
in our communities, it's really investing.
Like we talk about good teaching investments in future democratic citizens in our communities, like the young students in our class.
We're also talking about the state saying, we don't just care about the teacher's students performance.
We care about how teachers are doing, how they feel and how they're supported.
And that kind of climate, that kind of investment in recognizing and valuing them as teachers in the state.
Right.
Is really important to retaining great teachers in a state.
I mean, we see it around the country.
There are teacher exoduses, Tim, as you called it, you know, many times from the profession and
also
from states to other states where, you know, where, where teachers go because they're a little more valued because there's an opportunity to either be paid commensurable to, you know, the living expenses or just in general, maybe they have, uh, you know, less.
Like like less strict policies around standardized testing and you know and the and the strictness of a scripted curriculum And so these are great ways that states remember we talked about all time Tim on the show Education is a state right.
It's why local democracy is so important because your state and your local Government process matters a lot and Alex is a great example of that.
You know state of Michigan has
swung back.
It's, it's like a pendulum.
It's been doing this for decades.
Swung back to really supporting teachers and being a state where they say, Hey, we know it's really hard.
You know, the conditions are difficult and we want to support you doing everything we can do to make it so you Alex and any other teacher out there doing things like Alex is doing, saying we want you to feel supported and invest in your education because lifelong learners.
make for great teachers so Alex thanks for participating and hey we got Jack from Merrimack who's also he's a former teacher so let's get Jack come on come on the come on the show with us
all right anytime my friend yeah the the years that I worked on my master's degree were
Pretty interesting.
I worked at a school district outside of Milwaukee, one of the suburban districts.
And as we know, there's a wide difference in the financial ability of school districts throughout the state.
This one has happened to be in one of the 20 richest counties in the country on a per capita income basis anyway.
They let me off for a full year to work on my master's degree at half pay.
They paid me to work on my master's.
In return, this was about the time that computers were just starting to come into the public schools.
And my master's was on computer tutoring in the classroom.
I evaluated for my final project something like 80 or 85 individual computer tutoring programs, everything from organic chemistry nomenclature to basically figuring out the electron configurations of various atoms.
And it was a very useful degree to get at the time.
It's a very useful thing to study at the time.
Things have gotten a lot more advanced since then.
But the point is, this was the early stages when a whole bunch of school districts throughout the country got Apple II computers courtesy of Apple Computer.
Jack, so it sounds to like to me.
So first of all, you valued getting your master's degree.
I wonder, though, if we're talking about this program, you got half pay.
Alex is having his master's degree fully funded by the state of Michigan.
Any thoughts on the whole idea of a state stepping up and fully funding teachers, master's degrees?
Well, that's, I mean, that's a great idea.
An idea whose time has
not only come, but it should have come used years ago.
Of course, how useful it is very much depends on what you decide to study, but I found mine extremely useful.
That's all I can say.
All right, Jack.
Well, Jack, your former teacher, I appreciate you for all your years of service and for your continued listening and participation in the show, Jack.
Yeah, thank you Jack.
Thank you Jack.
So Alex right there So you are special man the fact that Michigan has really made that switch is Johnny said the investment in teachers You know, we heard from your Provost Julian and your Dean Laura about this program, but
Michigan really making this investment in a teacher like you to say, yeah, we value education, we value lifelong learning, and we have some critical need areas.
And right now, just to remind people too, as you said, Alex, coming out of COVID, we're finding that some younger children have some gaps, particularly when it comes to literacy.
And so you are then engaging in
Is it would it be similar to what's called like an like a reading intervention specialist type of degree you're getting with your literacy studies?
Yeah, that would be fair to say I can obviously remain as a classroom teacher with this additional endorsement, but I could also take that to either be like a reading interventionist teacher or even like a district literacy coach.
Okay.
And so your intentions are to stay in your classroom and use this knowledge with your fourth graders.
Yes.
Yeah.
For me being in the classrooms where it's at.
Okay, so now that you've been in the program are you currently so you're currently teaching right now You're taking classes.
When do classes occur?
How do they occur?
Are they online or they face-to-face?
Are they you know, do you have regular just give us a sense what the when you're taking a class?
How are you getting the reading or the reading endorsement curriculum?
How is Western Michigan delivering that curriculum to you?
So it is a fully online curriculum to be able to account for
the fact that they're partnering with a lot of districts that may not be super close to the Kalamazoo where Western is.
Typically, of course, in my experience would meet one or two times per month live, like as a synchronous session on a Zoom or a WebEx or whatever.
And then the rest of it is held.
Like in their e-learning platform and you work through the different modules, activities, readings, videos.
Occasionally they have you pair up in what they call PLC groups, professional learning communities with smaller groups of students to engage on the week's activities and readings.
Then you kind of submit like your little report back to the professor of what did you talk about?
What did you cover?
What are you working on?
So I do feel like they tried to adapt and understand to the fact that, hey, a lot of these.
Students pursuing masters are also a full-time teachers and a lot of them have families and a lot of them have other commitments.
So trying to not make it like a hard schedule like you're going to class after school every night or you're having to commute to different places and things like that.
I think it's been really, really accessible.
So yeah, so the modality there.
Yeah, you're speaking of those other institutions just so you know, Johnny Lupinacci is an Eastern Michigan grad person.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
I'm a big fan
of colleges that face across the state of Michigan though I've dabbled in and quite a few of them and Western's got a great I mean we've got some great friends over at Western Tim I
was gonna see if if you were gonna jump in everybody like no so it's it's Alex Alex bore Western Michigan grow your own fourth grade teacher
pursuing master's degree literacy critical need area state of michigan investing in their teachers hey teacher appreciation week alex man thank you so much for busting pencils well that's our friend
yeah happy to be here and happy teacher appreciation week to everybody out there
that's right all right work alex and more appreciation coming up next
It's coming up in the last segment.
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Teacher appreciation week.
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Dr. Nancy Carlson, Page, our favorite teacher, showing up to tell us a little bit about the science of reading.
Alex Bohr, Western Michigan University.
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learning, adding on a master's degree to his fourth grade teaching.
And in the middle of that, Johnny, we had a call and
Justin from, I think it was still water.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You think you, we maybe we cut him off a little prematurely.
I mean, it was good to push it to the end because, you know, we were on a roll with Alex and we were doing a lot with teacher appreciation and, you know, coming off of a great segment with Dr. Nancy Carlson paid.
So it's a jam packed Monday.
But you know what we always talk about, Tim, is that
you know, teaching comes in many forms.
And we've talked a lot about you and I have in the past and we've had some special shows dedicated to it and things.
But we talk often about, you know, the political voice that people in particular that like musicians have, right?
Or,
you know, anyone out there who has an audience that like they're like all music is political, right?
Some
of the kings and the queens and some some is for the surf, some the other side of the wall.
And, you know, I think Justin brought something up.
where Mick Jagger, you know, the Rolling Stones recently played at the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival, and they closed their, you know, their concert with, you can't always get what you want.
Just a classic, right?
Right, absolutely.
But, you know, Mick Jagger did the thing, we love music and we think musicians are teachers.
We think that they're the message that they share with their audiences and through their music moves people, you know, and it's a it's a stalwart and part of social movements everywhere.
So I want to give applause to Mick Jagger and Justin brought it up.
But you know, he, uh, before the Rolling Stones started playing, you can't always get with the want what you want.
You know, he said, uh, here we are in New Orleans, right?
And they want to include the governor, Jeff Landry, too, in this message, even if Jeff Landry, even if he wants to take us back to the stone age, right?
And then played, you can't always get what you want.
So big, big ups.
So I know Justin was asking what we thought about it.
Big ups to Mick Jagger, who got on the stage, you know, and said something about.
the political moment that the people in Louisiana are in.
And really, it resonates across our country, right?
As there are politicians who do intend very much to take us back into the Stone Age.
But you know, it was great hearing that in the news this week.
It was awesome for Justin to call and bring it up.
I don't even know.
Maybe they were discussing it on a previous show.
And Justin got the chance to call him.
But Justin may also know
and listener out there you you're listening you may know tim and i we chop it up about music too because absolutely we talk a lot about formal schooling but we also we often talk about liberating uh education from schooling and you know and everybody has a voice and every boy voices matters so mic jagger big big applause from the busted pencils guy guys because uh you know what you can't always get what you want but
what
i do want is like i do want people who have the
have the opportunity to speak truth to power to do so.
And you know what?
I got to throw some love to, I have very little knowledge specifically of Landry's politics, but what I do know, I'm not a fan of, but you know, he clapped back on X, you know, the Twitter, you know, he said, you can't always get what you want.
The only person who might remember the Stone Age is Mick Jagger.
Love you, buddy.
You're always welcome in Louisiana.
And so, you know, a little bit of conversation.
We talk about this all the time.
This is the kind of conversations we need to have.
Speak truth to power.
Mick Jagger did.
And you know what?
Governor Landry, you know, clapped back and he said, you know, you might, you might 80 year old Mick Jagger be the
only
one.
But the fact is, you know, our elders do remember a time
when it was
like, Hey, really?
And I especially want to speak to that in this moment.
Teachers come in many forms.
So I think about last week, Tim, you and I being out on the front lines with John and Gordy.
And both those guys remember a time when they were part of the Vietnam protests.
And so they were sharing wisdom from history, and that's really important to do.
And so I commend that.
And we got to do that kind of thing, Tim, with a lot of folks in Madison at the Monaco Brewing Company.
and Bust Depends is sponsored by the Monaco Brewing Company, who sued the state of Wisconsin to end its parasitic voucher system that hurts public schools.
Monaco Brewing Company is making Wisconsin great again, one beer at a time.
So check out MonacoBrewingCompany.com to see where you can buy their progressive beer.
Yeah, man.
Bringing that all together just like that, you know, man, I tell you what though, to progressive beer ain't no stone age there.
Right there.
That is some woke.
beer, woke coffee, and man, loving what we were doing there.
I think that is so kind of funny there.
You got to give the governor of Louisiana a little bit of props for coming back.
Now, whether he wrote that Mick Jaggers, maybe might be the only one who remembers the Stone Age, that's kind of funny though.
I'm kind of laughing at that and feeling it.
I see producer Anya was kind of like, whoa, yeah, I mean, right Anya?
Yeah, it's, it's a good clap back.
I wonder how old this governor is.
Maybe he's up there in his 60s, 70s.
He remembers the bronze age, not the, but, but, you know, I'm a Stones fan.
I like when, when he gets out on stage and says something like that.
So yeah, good for him.
Exactly.
Jeff Landry is 53 years old.
So, you
know, he's, he's up there, but, you know, it's, and, and really I love it too.
Anytime somebody has that opportunity.
to share not only the politics of their music, but to share that sentiment.
Mick Jagger, you've earned that and appreciate you speaking truth to power.
Yeah.
Amazing, right?
80 years old, yeah, doing what he does do.
It is incredible.
Yeah, you know what, and I'm a little bit older than Governor Landry, and I have to say that I saw the Stones farewell tour in the 80s.
That wasn't a farewell either.
I can't tell you how many fans I've seen their final show.
Back in the Stone Age of the 80s...
Yeah, the Rolling Stones were saying farewell back at that time.
And here it is, 2024.
And no, they're not.
Man, Johnny Busted Pencils, loving it Monday.
Teacher Appreciation Week, first day, day one, Teacher Appreciation Week.
We're saying, you know what, all week long too.
Yeah, Busted Pencils, we are going to be appreciating those teachers.
In fact, I put it out there for all the listeners.
Give us a call.
Tell us.
Come on to the show.
Tell us who your favorite teacher is.
Show some love, show some appreciation.
That's what we want to do here all week, Busted Pencils.
If you forgot the numbers, 855-752-4842.
855-752-4842.
Favorite teacher, teacher love, teacher appreciation.
Come on.
Let us know.
Remind us who they are.
Johnny, you had first grade teacher.
I did my fourth grade teacher.
Dr. Nancy Carlson Page, Matt Damon's mom, did.
One of my favorite, I'd say, teachers too, just from the old idea of Howard Zinn, a people's history of the United States, my goodness.
Talk about that, you know.
We're gonna have to have Dr. Nancy Carlson page on— Oh, wait, we will.
Every first Monday of the month, it will be— What would Matt Damon's mom say?
You know, we're gonna have a little bit more, though, about this conversation.
She was on Howard Zinn's front porch, hanging out.
Yeah, we gotta come back to that.
Man, we gotta come back to that.
Busted pencils, fully leaded.
Tomorrow night, Diane Ravage.
Yes, for sure, we mean it this time.
See you tomorrow.