This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk.
Here are your hosts, Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci, educated educators talking
education.
There it is, Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk, educated educators talking
education Thursday night, man, what a week, I know last night, like Tim and Johnny weren't
live.
No, we were traveling, man, we were on our way back, Johnny Lupinacci, you made it back
to Washington.
Oh, yeah, man.
I'm an old pro with this, man.
East to West, West to East, you know, I'm a little bit of a road dog.
So I know how, I know how to travel.
We got, we got back safe, and we have an awesome time.
I was going to say just a reminder, too, where he's like, what are they talking about?
We were live in person, and this is the best part, nobody got the t-shirt, Johnny and
Tim, first time doing anything together happened, because we had never been together in real
life in the last four years, on you, right?
You know, we never met on you.
Still shocking to me that that was your first time meeting in person.
This is such a special event.
Did we have an old married couple appearance or something like that on you?
Appearances and the right word, a sound to you, perhaps.
Okay.
Yeah.
So, but it was great, Tim, you know, it was especially good to be able to one guest on
so many of the civic media shows.
If you don't have the civic media app, you don't cruise around on the website for civic
media.
Really, really, you got it, because there's so many great shows, there's some amazing
topics and real energy around the program, the civic media, so it was great to be in the
same room with so many awesome producers.
We love Arnya, but we got to hang with Aaron, and we got to be with Luke, Luke, I got to
hang with Sam, yeah, I mean, all of the people, it was awesome, Tim, but what were we actually
there?
Well, I'm going to say, you know, right now, what we were there for is because Busted
Pencils is sponsored by Monaco Brewing Company, and they sued the state of Wisconsin, remember,
to end that parasitic voucher system that hurts public schools, Monaco Brewing Company
is making Wisconsin great again.
One beer at a time, make sure you check out Monaco Brewing Company dot com to see where
you can buy their progressive beer, Johnny, because we opened up that official partnership
Tuesday night at the Monaco Brewing Tap Room in Madison, Johnny Lupinachi, Tim Slecker,
Kirk Banks, Ted, Dr. Julie Underwood, and all of the 70, let's do it, let's do a Donald
Trump.
It was the biggest crowd ever for any type of opening.
There were more people, there were people every now, it was huge, but it was huge.
It was usually immense.
How's that for us?
I don't even know, man.
I'm traumatized by these explorative tips.
I really did like the being with a live audience, because you listener out there, if you made
the scene, even if you didn't, and you get to check it out live, you could hear it.
It was like, this Joe is recorded before, live audience, it was like sitcom style.
We talk about the experience teachers we're having and the support they need, and you'd
get a clap track behind it, but it was live audience style.
And the energy was great, big, big ups to Kirk for his vision on seeing that event come
together.
I mean, talk about crossover in civic media programming and family though, Todd Albright.
He's like, I mean, that guy is just, he's got a great host of a great show.
But he was on the site, sound guy, and all things successful, due to, always thank
your sound person, and always be a bartender and server.
But we had that all covered, because Todd was on the scene.
So big ups to Todd, check out his show every day, and it's great.
Tim, let's jump into it, because I mean, stuff has been happening, even though it's
quite fun.
I know, and I jumped in, I mean, say, first of all, from the news, and we have been covering
this.
And again, people's like, what, well, on this one, the title nine, all the history
work changes to title nine.
So today, now again, 15 states enter a lawsuit to say, we're not going to implement title
nine.
And the big issue on that, though, too, is because the other news today, well, along with everything
else, is is that research out of LGBTQ plus students, and their well-being, is is that
they now more fear, fear more than ever, physical harm, bullying, because of, not because
kids have gotten more bullying and more harmful, but because of hearing the rhetoric of the
anti-LGB2, TQ plus language that keeps coming out of their state houses, policy, public
policy.
The reality is, guess what, when your state says don't say gay, that feels really like
a personal threat, if you happen to be gay.
So the reality is, is that LGBTQ students weren't feeling that safe to begin with.
And now after the past two years of rhetoric and policy geared at really pushing hard against
LGBTQ students, just to be seen, they're now not feeling so comfortable being in school.
Oh, I don't want to reduce it to this, this being a result of don't say gay.
I mean, there is real, violent language coming from leaders that are, and then the discussions
about these bills, there's just a constant barrage of hate speech, really being aimed at
people who are hearing say, hey, that's me, I'm a woman, that's about my body, I'm LGBTQ
plus.
I don't know what I am, but I'm scared to identify in anything because the kinds of ways
people are talking about me or my body or my friends or the people around me is not
even hard to interpret is about doing harm to them.
And so we're being really direct, like when we say like, there's don't say, there's
a don't say gay law.
You know what that means?
There's not like a big jump here, there's all kinds of really direct violence being
talked about being done to not only young people, but anybody different in our communities.
And I'd say the same thing goes for friends who are people of color that I know that right
that are saying like, hey, this is not brand new, this is not like a new phenomenon.
Women, people of color, the BIPOC community, LGBTQ plus youth, I mean, all over our saying
like, dude, when are we going to stop just spewing hate and causing harm and doing violence
onto one another?
And that's a good segue, man, because Tim, when we got to hang out with Sammy, we did
a morning show with John and Gordy, which John and great morning show, right, we had
we had to be at short stack, amidst our breakfast, right, oh, the police came zoom in by and
headed to campus at UW Madison.
And we walked down there with Sammy because a little bit concerned like, hey, my, this young
blood just headed towards where the police are going, but I'll tell you what, we got inspiration
from some good faculty people there and some great students who are also saying enough
with the violence, right, and who are doing a lot of work and it's messy and we don't
have all the details because we're not on the scene, but other shows I've been listening
to today in Madison are covering the kinds of ways that young people around this country
are saying we need to stop sanctioned violence, we need to stop having sort of, you know, like
war, be how we solve and resolve issues, whether it's whether you're thinking about, hey,
it's dangerous that, that university campuses are calling police on to campus or whether
students versus students, we have violence on campus, right, and CLA that has escalated
to a level it, you know, it's, it's not a safe time to be a young person saying, can
we stop the violence because the violence is just piling up?
So it was, it's been, it's been great to be around good folks who are sorting that out,
right, who are saying, hey, we got to listen differently, we got to do something about
this and I hope, you know, that we can continue to express dissent and have freedom of speech
without it being so dangerously violent for anybody participating in that process.
And it's interesting as you go through this and Johnny, you ended with this, you know,
freedom of speech to kind of say it's like, okay, you guys are talking about Title IX,
you're talking about LGBTQ, you're talking about students and colleges protesting, you
know, what's happening in, in, in Palestine and Israel, but you know, what you just said,
you said there, though, too, is that in each one of these, there's some form of, and again,
not only, but there are some form of speech that is trying to be challenged, potentially,
you know, so the idea that you're not allowed to identify as what you feel like you want
to identify, because those words make other people uncomfortable in our school.
And I said, yeah, I minimized it to don't say gay, but within that, don't say gay legislation
was all of that violence that you said, Johnny, included in that, quote, that law.
And part of that too was trying to tell people, hey, if you're gay, we don't want to hear
about it.
We don't want you to say it, we don't want you to proclaim it.
And teachers, you're not allowed to protect that freedom that your students have.
Because all of this happening, so 855, 752, 4842, yeah, we're just back off of a trip
to Madison, Wisconsin, hanging with everybody, monocle brewing company, great live show.
And then now here we are looking at education news, title nine, four more states today enter
the lawsuit to say, yeah, we're not, we're not going to do the new title nine.
And with that, hey, guess what, a survey coming out of LGBTQ plus youth saying, we don't
feel safe anymore.
And then if you're talking about it, you've got students now on college campuses potentially
saying, safety right now is a big issue happening.
Dave, we see it from Madison, you're on the line there, but we're going to wait for
to hold you over just so make sure that you have the ability to really talk to us more
and more, more in depth about that.
So, you know, Johnny, yeah, three, three big issues, but I've also put this out to the
Boston pencil listener because we know you're out there, hey, whatever you want to talk
about eight, five, five, seven, five, two, four, eight, four, two, you may jump in there
because you got, you know, hey, if you saw us at the short stack in Madison, eaten hash
and not eating pancakes, tell us that you're like, oh, man, you missed out on some of the
best pancakes ever.
You and Johnny Lupinachi eating hash and eggs.
What are you doing at the short stack going on there and eating meat and stuff like, yeah,
you know, it was funny though, Johnny Lupinachi on the way out of there was like,
that was some good hash, but it wasn't the kind that comes in a can that I'm used to.
So, it was an interesting, it was a good breakfast, it was a great conversation with John and
Gordy.
I mean, listeners out there calling and we're great.
So now, you know, we know there's some of you who are out there listening, you can call
in anytime you want, call us up, get on the, on the air with us, but yeah, Tim, so much
happening in education and, you know, it's good to be back in the saddle from our, you
know, remote, remote studios and to, you know, have just a kind of a grasp of all the
good things that are happening in Madison, Milwaukee and in, and in defense of democracy
in Wisconsin.
Remember, Wisconsin, you are a canary in the coal mine.
You are, you know, standing your ground on an important flight to keep America democratic.
And I don't mean like democratic party.
I mean, like in a strong democracy, which are the interests of both Democrats and Republicans.
Make in America a democracy again.
Maybe let's put that out there as the call, civic media, busted pencils, all the shows
on civic media, making democracy great again, hey, there it is, hey, Dave, things out there,
Tim.
Yeah.
You know what?
Next, Dave, Madison, John from Green Bay, you guys are up next, be back in a minute.
Yeah.
We may be talking to our faces, darn blue, but you love it.
It's busted pencils, fully-led education talk, educated educators talking education, yeah,
back after a whirlwind trip to Madison, Wisconsin, looking at particularly, like now,
though, talking about Title IX, the pushback, LGBTQ plus students, not feeling safe, and
the safety on campus.
But first, Dave, Dave and Madison, what's happening, Dave?
Well, I'm listening to your show is what's happening to great show, hey, yeah, you're absolutely
right about democracy, but the way to bring back democracy to vote for Democrats is big
D.
Because, you know, I mean, we have the Electoral College, we have the Senate, the way
that it's structured, the Supreme Court 6.3, which is due to the Electoral College, which
is another issue, voter suppression, Puerto Rico, and Washington, DC, aren't safe,
I can go on and on.
So we have a lot, we do have a free press, yeah, it's solidated to a large stand, especially
with, but would you have a free press except for the issue of maybe Julian Assange, but
the reason I called up is these protests, yeah, these people are not peace activists, if
they are peace activists, they would not be clearly taking sides on all kinds of issues
in an armed conflict, and that's exactly what they're doing, their point for boycotts
of my former alma mater, Tel Aviv University, I mean, people there, a lot of the people
there support the Palestinian, support the Palestinian cause, they have a incredible variety
of positions, some aren't even Zionists, although, of course, probably most of them are,
but it's a prepared liberal institution, and I really think that's wrong, now as far
as the protests, everyone is the right to protest, and I definitely, definitely support
that, right, I represented a guy once, I'm going to turn, I mean, I'm going to turn
he, to represent someone once who was protesting during the, it was, it was, they had these
sing-alongs at the Capitol, and I can part in that representation, that the previous show
just talked about, now, I want to say, I think what they're going, what they are concerned
about is that this kiddy is getting high out of hand, like at Columbia University, where
you have Jewish students who definitely feel threatened, I mean, we have people on tape
at that university talking about deaths in the Jews, globalized, the interfero, which
probably, I understand, I didn't hear it myself, but I understand that that's, that is
one of the champs, the interfero was a time when, every few days, there'd be a terrorist
atrocity, you know, 30 kids would be blown up, a, we just, we've got to say it, it will
be blown up, for example, that, that went on for months and months and months, until
they finally built the, the wall, and that's stopped it.
Now, yeah, let me go on, so go ahead, then, people, you know, they feel threatened, and
they, let me try to, I'll try to be expeditious, Jewish people, you know, they feel threatened
by, yes, they feel threatened by the fact that hate crimes against Jews are the leading
hate crime now, as far as the numbers go, and so, Columbia University understands that,
they understand that Jews have been threatened, and so they have a, like a kind of a apartheid
system, where they tell, okay, you Jews, we're going to have a double system, how you can
access classes, everyone else can go to class on the university, you guys can, you guys
can, you know, do it remotely, by computer, and you know, if you do it remotely, you know,
you can't go to anything, you can't talk to your professors, you don't have the full
campus experience, you can't talk to your fellow students, you know, we have the, like,
the Wrath Scholar there, so I say imagine not being able to go into the Wrath Scholar,
or if you have a, if you have a lab project, how do you go to that, and so Jews feel very
feel threatened.
Yeah, Dave, we had to cut it short there, man, we appreciate you calling, you know, I
just want to speak to Dave, he's got some great points, and he's shining some light
on this, and I think we'll dive into this.
There's a really great open letter from the ACLU that helps contextualize this complexity
on campus.
But one of the things, you know, Dave was bringing it up is that this is an unsafe time
for a lot of students on campus, and let's validate that, and that is in every way, not
an okay thing, and it shouldn't be something, and Dave wasn't doing this.
I think he was speaking to this, we have to, like, resist that temptation to make that
politicized or for political gain, if we're, you know, that is not, there are non-peaceful
protesters.
There are.
A peaceful protest can include actually, like, physical location of people and the physical
removal of those peaceful protests.
So we're getting, like, we're getting these situations very, very, um, muddied up, and
the, the result though is, is they are a symbol of, and a result of, the fact that people
do not feel safe in the world on the campus, and it's particularly hurting, it, like,
specific groups, right, that we could say that and not, not saying, like, there's a neutral
stance on this, but it's really problematic, and I think, color, Dave, you know, point
that out, it's really problematic to, you know, claim everyone against Palestinians
or Zionists, and everyone pro-Palestinian want, want to see Jews harmed.
I mean, these are, and I think, Dave is saying that's a really problematic place to swing.
And, and, and I, I buy in large, have seen on a few campuses, campus protest sites I've
been to, the majority of the students do not fit those representations, do not fit that.
Now, I'm not saying that that's the case everywhere because I truly believe students
don't feel safe in, in, or else they would not be putting their bodies on the line in
the way that they are.
And Johnny, the way you, you said that, though, though, too, right, is, is that, um, not
feeling safe in realizing, um, but that's not, you know, we're not, what you said, but,
you know, we're not being neutral.
In fact, yeah, there's not new, neutrality here, calling, though, for students to feel
safe is not a call for neutrality between people that have disagreements.
As long as those, what we're saying is the disagreements can't cross over into where
people are starting to not feel safe.
So when Dave is talking about, hey, right now, and on some campuses, in some situations,
certain students are starting to feel unsafe and the opportunity to feel safe as being
offered is, well, then you can go to classes online.
That's not acceptable.
That's not an accommodation to safety.
And could we be doing more to say that, right?
Well, time, I don't think that Dave's in the position to say that.
And I don't think you are, I, are, although we're probably closer to it than Dave, as
somebody who has been part of that decision making for people who's safety is put at
jeopardy on campus, it is a school's duty to protect students from discriminatory harassment
and violence by any means necessary.
OK, there's a school's responsibility to protect students from discriminatory harassment
and violence.
That could happen to us in class.
If we know that's going to happen in those classmates, we have to create the best possible
ways to provide education.
Now, if you're in that situation where, like, we know students do not feel safe, and
it's not just that they don't feel safe, right?
They aren't safe in many cases.
And so what they're saying is, I'm not safe.
The school's responsible for that and is doing the best of their ability to accommodate
both students who are coming to class and who can't be at class.
It's similar to the COVID thing.
Yeah, I know.
I get a little frustrated because I'm actually in those classes where I'm providing accommodations
for people who aren't safe.
I've been that person because, yes, the people who don't agree with me have threatened
me many times.
And then I have to deal with that fact that, like, I have to teach from a remote location.
The problem isn't the school or the people.
It's the fact that we resort to violence to get our points up across and we can get away
with it.
And I think that's part of enlarged the backdrop behind this context.
And I'm kind of going hard at it because I do believe that universities and schools
are in a tough spot.
And I think if folks are interested in it, the ACLU provides five points of guidance around
this that really help shine light on the complexity of this, but simplify it.
When we get back, though, we can get John from Green Bay.
If you're still on the line, thanks for hanging on there, buddy.
I just had to wrap back at my man, Dave, Dave, thanks for calling.
I got to let it go in there.
Here it comes.
I love this part.
I love this part.
Oh, yeah.
There you go.
You know, I just got to get it out there a little bit of screaming, but the pencils fully
let it education talk, educated educators talking, education right now, conversation, looking
at what's happening on campus with lots of campuses, who's safe, who's not safe, but
right now we're going to go, John, John, thank you so much for hanging on, John, what's
happening?
I love the fact that you're talking about safety, and my look is, I'm looking at tile
line and a different view than what you guys look at tile line.
I think that we need to find a place spot for the NPTQ community, but on the other hand,
we also need to find a place for the girls in the sport, people who are biologically
stronger with more muscle, it's tougher to be playing against that.
I've been interested in where people have gone hurt because they've played again, a female
being injured because they've been playing against biological males.
Yeah, so I mean, on this issue, and John, thank you so much for the call from Green Bay.
Again, it's not without the complexities to look at that, so to say, again, the biological
woman, biological man, and then what happens when biological, and then you're going to,
and it always comes down into this, too, John, you're going to talk about sports, sports,
and so what happens when a male, biological male decides that now in the transgender
process that they would also like to compete now in female sports, that's always, it's
kind of put into that situation.
I think what John's saying, though, is that, and we do have to notice that.
We have to notice that, and we have to make, when I say notice that, I know it's not
happening.
Yeah, as a coach, a college coach, and as, you know, a high school coach and a youth sports
guy, I think this is one of those things that we said is an important thing to say.
We got to figure this out and get it right, because we don't know how to do it right
now correctly, and the answer isn't, because we're trapped in the binaries, women sports,
boys, team, girls, team, and what we actually know from both science and athletic development
and things, that these things, these hard, rigid rules we've had do not work, and they
are not, they do not really represent not only the best of the sport, but the best in
the development of both identifying as female and as, you know, male.
So one of the things that's been purported, and I get what John from Green Bay is saying,
but I just want to shine a slight on it, is that that is something that may happen if
we don't really rethink how do we develop in the interest of the sport and people playing
that sport.
Okay.
And that doesn't mean change the rules or change the game.
My coach knows they have an obligation to the safety of the players, right?
And every governing organization does that as well.
You can adhere to the safety and the development of a competitive sport without relying on gender
to do that.
And that is what most people in those decision making, like those governing bodies, like
USA soccer or USA hockey, I'll use those as a few, are really thinking through that
in ways that kind of change how we understand sports.
So I say, like the general public, we are lagging, but it's going to look really different.
And that's part of this being open to change and not reacting to things that haven't happened
somewhere.
But on it, always been having to fit a square peg into a circle right on this one.
And that's not what's going to work.
There's a progress towards what you're saying, because I also hear in this, the language
of even transitioning the language to from men's sports and women's sports to sports
for people, right?
And even helping people make that change of saying, you know, yeah, the binary classifications
that we have done for so long, if it is now sports for people, how would we then put
together rules and regulations that are trying to make the safety of the athletes, right?
The athletes, not the male athletes, not the female athletes, make the athletes safe.
And so we're moving in that direction to how to see how to look at the end goal of this
at the highest level, if that's the goal, it's because most, most people are involved in
sports for the help and the enjoyment of the sport.
Very few people are going to do it as their career in terms of like become a professional
athlete.
But yet we do need to also create the pathway and the space for those to be equal pace.
Because that's part of it too now is you really don't have the crossover unless in order
to be better cared for, have better competition or have better resources, you have to join
one or the other, right?
And so there's a big systemic way of fixing some of these inequities that I just get fired
up about because I think we get stuck on what's going to happen when that dude wants to
play.
I know, I know, I know, right?
I mean sports, that's what's going to happen.
It's like, first of all, hold on like a lot of sports.
I've actually seen women crushing men who are stronger than them.
Right, right.
Well, like high school basketball being one for sure, our varsity basketball team and,
you know, both men and women's and even with some students who I've identified differently
playing each other was was pretty, pretty even competition.
Well, think about that, the automatic, the automatic tilt towards assuming that men are
better too, even right, right, to move that forward and sit there and go, well, you know
what?
It's like, I know that there are places where you say it and we should be looking at
skill levels and I can't imagine a world where you're placed into your league or into
your level of competition based on your ability based on your ability, your skill, your
strength, your size, these things, which I'll tell you that if you only go off maybe
height and size, it might be favored into one direction of the, but no one at a high level
any sport is going to classify that being how we measure if you're good at something.
That could be in a sense what we understand as co-ed and so be highly competitive.
And you could also be crossed over for that ability too.
So that kind of those, that's what I mean about we really need to not get stuck in the moment
and trust the process and support that we're going to figure this out.
But we add, we add to the moment though and we add to the context and if you want to
855 and title line is pushing it, it's saying we have, yeah, we got to get in those directions.
We got to move in that direction.
So John again, John from Green Bay, thank you for that.
Now, Johnny, back to the campus protests though too, because we keep this moving because
the resource that you found from the ACLU is just really something great that people
need to have a, you know, some exposure and I'll just quote directly from this, you
know, if we want to ensure freedom of speech and academic freedom while protecting against
discriminatory harassment and disruptive context, there are five things we need to try.
And John, you're constructive, you know, and acknowledging that this is a complex time.
So I think it's really thoughtful when people are saying, hey, of course I support student
free speech.
But there's also free speech of things that are causing harm towards other students.
So this is one of those complex situations.
How do we handle it and understand better understanding and learning from one another
on how we can handle this and coming from a day one source on supporting students right
to protest and free speech in this country, the ACLU, right?
So they offer those sort of five suggestion points.
Should we share them or should we?
Yeah, I'm going to say, you know, so I'll, I'll do number number one, schools must not
single out particular viewpoints for censorship, discipline, or disappropriate disproportionates
are not appropriate.
Disproportionate punishment, number two, schools must protect students from discriminatory
harassment and violence in John, that gets to your point, though, too.
So maybe that might mean classes online because the violence threat is there.
Maybe number three, schools must recognize that armed police on campus can endanger students
and are a measure and are a measure of last resort.
Four schools must resist the pressures placed on them by politicians seeking to exploit
campus tension.
And number five, schools must resist, but that's a double one.
I sent you a double list.
The fifth one is actually schools can announce you're in four schools.
Listen to this one.
These double content neutral protest policies, yeah, it must leave ample room for students
to express themselves, hey, what a novel idea.
Sounds like democracy in action.
Hey, schools, you gotta, you gotta have a handle on this.
You gotta expect there's going to be exercising free speech, whether there's a conflict in
the world or not.
It's a stalwart of university campuses, right?
It's part of our country.
It's part of the history of getting an education, but your freedom of speech, but it's not
anything goes.
It's not anything goes, and that's what you say.
So teaching children, I'm a state children, I'm a teenager as a child, it's like faculty
staff teaching about the obligation that the institution has to combat discrimination,
but also a responsibility to maintain order, maintain order, it's reminding those universities,
those five things from the ACLU saying, also, hey, remember calling in the police ought
to be a last resort.
And you know what?
Having seen that now live a couple of times in spaces, nobody wants, that's not a win-win
for anybody.
A police don't particularly want to have to be arresting students, it's not.
I know that it gets purported that like these police are ready to just beat on students
and drag them away.
And I don't think just reporting from the front lines from what I saw, it did not look
like a kind of person who wanted to do harm to young people, but they also had a job
and I think, honestly, you know, I will rarely, rarely hear me sign with the cops, Tim,
and I'm not saying that they should be, but they were also doing minimal harm in the process
of like having to remove.
Now, I would hope they wouldn't be having to remove anybody in the first place.
So I like this thing that says to universities, hey, remember last resort, last resort, absolute
last resort.
Yeah.
Supposted pencils fully-led education talk.
Yeah.
Educated educators talking education.
We want to hear from you though, 8557524842, 8557524842, and yeah, we're looking at
Title IX, LGBTQ, the fact that those students are not, you know, in the last two to three
years, LGBTQ plus students are feeling the heat and feeling the pressure.
And man, there's a lot of heat and pressure on campuses right now as students are trying
to make sense of what's going on with the war between Israel and Amos, what's happening
with Palestinians.
And even that, Johnny, we say we look forward to this because we are officially know, you
know, a new partnership.
We're going to be working with rethinking schools in the future, John, you want to put
that out there?
And they have, you know, and so teaching about what's happening in with the war with Israel
and Amos.
Get there too.
That's because good responsible information helps people express their freedom, you utilize
their freedom of speech in ways that don't lead and necessarily point towards harming one
another.
You know, Tim, the other thing that is key about this and one of the breaks I was kind of
expressing my disdain for particular news sources right now that do this on both sides
of the politics of this.
But I like this suggestion and reminder that the ACLU has for the universities, but I also
put it out there for, you know, people talking about this and reporters are folks writing
and posting schools and I could replace schools with, you know, journalists or, you know,
photographers or social media content people must resist the pressures placed on them by
politicians to exploit campus tensions because the other layer of this and now it's closely
linked to education will leave a lot of this discussion to our political comrades doing
shows all day at civic media.
But there is a real divisive agenda with some of this in terms of the election coming
up.
And so we have to be where we must resist the pressures placed on us by politicians seeking
to exploit campus tensions.
We say that and that exploitation, we know it's going to be framed and we see it already
happening quote, you know, whatever political team you're on, you know, and right now the
mega people are really trying hard to present every protestor as this radical left communist
liberal that is trying to break apart the fabric of American society using again, the
protest to exploit a position to move forward with this, you know, a false sense of reality
of what's actually happening to really gain political points.
And so when you're hearing about this, you know, these are radical left liberals with their
radical left professors working on radical ideology, trying to promote an anti-Israel and
it's anti-Semitic and it's like, whoa, slow down, slow down.
Let's take a moment here.
Let's figure this out.
Are there anti-Israel, anti-Palestine, anti-Semitic, anti-Islam people?
Yes, there are.
Let's figure this out though.
Let's go back though, John.
I say let's remind people there are five things we want to do though because remember it's
democracy that we're practicing.
Democracy is messy and we need to get it right.
Busted pencils fully let it, let's get it right when we get back.
Ah, man, I love coming back for the final segment.
There's something about that music that's just like, yeah, well, it is.
It's Busted pencils fully let it, education talk, educated educators, talking education,
lots to talk about, lots to talk about, title, mind, man.
Good stuff.
Hey, but if you're in a state though saying, we don't like good stuff, we want to protest,
we want to go against that.
We found a lawsuit to actually stop the enforcement of the new title, mind regulations.
Hey, and guess what?
Who knew that when you, when you're state or your government or your politicians actively
promote policies that suggest that maybe doing harm to you is something that they're in
favor of?
Guess what?
Those that are at the, on the side of hearing those, they feel harmed.
So LGBTQ plus students right now report, you know, levels of increasing anxiety, increasing
fear of their own physical safety and talking about physical safety again to here.
We're saying, you know, what's happening on college campuses right now with the protests
for Israel and Hamas, the Israel, Hamas war.
And we're saying like, yeah, it's a lot going on, but Johnny, you know, we're really focusing
on this idea of going, okay.
But in democracy, there are some real issues that we want to protect largely around this
idea and love what you put up for the ACLU.
And now I know the ACLU is biased.
Whatever.
Come on.
Five.
I know, but it's, but we're looking to ensure freedom of speech, academic freedom and physical
protection against physical conduct and then discriminatory harassment, okay, putting
those things to say is freedom of speech, speech absolutely matters, academic freedom,
absolutely matters, safety matters and no discrimination, okay.
And if we're going to do that, there are five things we need to do, Johnny, we went over
those five, you know, we put it out there.
And I think, you know, recommendations for navigating a really complex time as a leader
on, on a college campus or maybe you're on a high school principal or you're a teacher
and you're thinking about, hey, you know what, my students have been talking about this,
how can we frame approaching this without it being further fuel to the fire?
One, we can learn from good sources and get good information on things.
But again, and I'm going to come back to the education part of this, the K-12 peace
time that can loop us back to this.
This is why we teach and we practice core democratic values.
Oh, thank you.
The first time learning to hold conflicting ideas in one space and say we might not agree,
but we can find common ground shouldn't be over genocide or atrocities that as really
people experience on a day-to-day basis based on their leader and the actions he's done.
And so, you know, the first time we're learning to have these kinds of conversations, not
to be at this high stakes.
So that's a big plug for our teachers out there teaching core democratic values and having
complex discussions as young people in schools and understanding how to take action within
our legal rights.
But also, that just because we have a constitutional right to free speech, doesn't mean we could
say or do whatever we want, right?
Right.
But really important things that I do fear, we even though history doesn't repeat itself,
it sure does.
It rhymes.
It rhymes.
I think that they said, Mark Twain purportedly said that so too great, but I can never actually
find it to hold anything I write.
So it's like a purported quote, quote, someone put it on a shirt somewhere and, you know,
then they're associated with Mark Twain.
But you know, these patterns are happening and if at the very least, I don't want to
reduce them because they are really complex.
The very least, they should teach us that the world is a complex place and we have to
be able to navigate that complexity if we desire peace, we cannot resort to like fighting
that will make more fighting that will make more fighting that will make more fighting.
And then magically hope that that's going to result in some peace, right?
And so, you know, I think those five things that the ACLU puts out there, you know, as
guide, as guardrails, they said, as you navigate these, these important times on your campus
in your school or in your classroom, you know, and then Tim, I kind of think at the
same side, they say, remind us, like warn us against the pressure to politic, to use
this for political sort of political reasons or to exploit the condition or the real suffering
or the fear that people have right now, which is fear of harm for good reason.
People like, our students are not okay in a lot of contexts and so, you know, as part
of that too, I just want to plug this because I think we'll come back around to it especially
after we hear about how teachers are teaching this conflict.
And I want to come back to like, this is really about really bad leadership, right?
And I want us to come back to, we've talked about it before, like what are some of the conditions
that lead toward the tyranny of a leader of fascist leaders, because I have to imagine
that like leaders of a Hamas, leaders of, you know, of the state of Israel and leaders
of the United States and leaders of other countries really, you know, are walking a dangerous
line around, you know, increased fascism and not democracy.
And so this, this to me is also what happens when you don't listen to people, when you
don't hear their lived experiences and you just trudge forward with your agenda.
Well, you know, too, it reminds me of the time we spent at the Monacoa Brewing Company
tap house where we were in conversation with everybody.
We had these kinds of conversations right where we had these conversations and over a beer
and pencil the sponsor by Monacoa Brewing Company who sued the state of Wisconsin to end
its parasitic voucher system that hurts public schools.
Monacoa Brewing Company is making Wisconsin great again, one beer at a time.
Check out MonacoaBrewingCompany.com to see where you can buy their progressive beer.
And Tim, I can't wait to have another progressive beer with you guys from Israel, because
you know what, at the end of the day, we ought to be able to hoist them up high, have
these conversations and you know what else, know that the people of the world are going
to be safe.
Be the safe.
And I would say, you know what, and let's put it there too, because boy, what a safe space
it was there in the MonacoaBrewing Tap House to realize that the ability to walk in there
and feel welcome having multiple senses, right?
I mean, it's just like, yeah, you know what, you can come in here and this is a place
where you're not going to get accosted, you're not going to have that.
And so, you know, again, appreciate that and appreciate because what places like MonacoaBrewing
Tap House, they provide models for what can be, which is to say that we can have spaces
and we might disagree, but to say that you're not threatened when you walk in here.
You don't have to feel that sense of saying, I don't want to admit who I am.
I'm not going to say what I believe in.
I'm not going to put forward who I'm in love with.
No, you know what, I love it, don't just drink beer and don't be a racist, man, it's
busted pencils.
You know, but it ain't everything goes.
Yeah, anything goes.
Anything goes.
Hey, love it.
Listeners, we'll catch you on the next one.