Live from the Minocqua Taproom!

This is Busted Pencils, fully-ledded education talk.

Here are your hosts.

Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,

educated educators talking education.

There it is Tuesday night live,

Manakwa Brewing Company,

Tap Room Madison, Wisconsin,

educated educators talking education,

fully-ledded education talk,

packed house.

Here we are on location.

Unbelievable Tim.

I mean, first of all,

it's great to be live with all these great people

and all these educators

and, you know, progressives here,

showing their support,

to support education and democracy.

And we're here with a special guest.

I mean, we got a slew of special guests.

Absolutely special guest.

Kirk Banks, that owner, entrepreneur,

public education advocate extraordinaire.

Kirk, what's happening in our friend?

Captain Kirk in the house.

Thanks, guys.

I really appreciate you guys are here.

I appreciate all the folks that came out tonight.

We have a slew of educators that are here

who would love to talk on your show,

because you guys are reaching so much of the state of Wisconsin.

What I like to call here is,

this is a Wisconsin idea beer style,

which is all about getting what needs to be said

out to the rest of the state,

which I'm so happy that you guys

in Civic Media are doing.

Kirk, I love it.

And think, you know,

what a great place to come though

and truly have the ability

to talk about the things that we're about to talk about.

And this is going to be, you know,

it's live tonight,

a monthly event coming to the Monaco Brewing,

Tap House in Madison,

Education, talking about it,

public schools,

the foundation of democracy,

the reality here,

and again,

where does democracy happen?

It happens in a tap room,

however a couple beers,

over some coffee,

over some choice wine,

over some, you name it.

So the Boston Tea Party happened

at the Green Dragon Tavern.

There we go.

Hemingway,

talked to Pagatano Picasso

at the close area,

Daily La,

in the French Quarter,

in Paris,

and Danuncio met with Toasty,

and they both wrote

beautiful poetry together

at the bars in the Abruzzo region.

And so it all starts with a place.

And I'm hoping we can make that place

and get the good word out

to the rest of Wisconsin

about education.

And this is the place to say,

we are on location live,

Monaco Brewing Tap Room

in the Madison area.

Oh yeah, come out,

check it out right now.

Come out and drink some beer.

I'm getting busted pencils,

fully-ledged education talk,

educated educators talking education.

We will be doing this monthly

from the Monaco Brewing Tap House.

Kirk, though.

So, you know, this partnership,

we love the idea.

You know, we kind of cross paths

on Facebook.

You know, we're putting out there,

hey, we've got this public education show,

five days a week,

fully-av- you know,

devoted to public schools.

You kind of hit me up on Facebook.

I came back and said,

hey, you know, how can we work together?

And the reality is here,

not what?

A month and a half later,

we're doing it.

We're working together.

Yeah, so, you know,

I have a special place in my heart

for public education.

My super PAC has been going for about

three years now.

And as I told you earlier,

we raised the money and we helped

to get Tony Evers elected,

which was the first step to make sure

that the state of Wisconsin,

you know, could defend itself

against another attack

from Trump and the MAGA movement.

The second thing we did was

to help get Justice Janet Pro to say

what's selected,

which will make sure,

which will ensure,

not only ensure that Trump

can't try to pull another

fast one in 2024,

but it will,

it will ensure that we will

end gerrymandering in Wisconsin,

which has happened.

And it also ensure that

women will get the reproductive

rights back in Wisconsin.

That's bound to happen soon.

But the thing that I cared about,

and the thing that I knew

that I could pretend

I could potentially do

was to try to help public

education get back to where it used

to be when I was a kid

in the 80s,

where it was some of the public

education was one of the best

in the country in Wisconsin.

And it's fallen very far,

and that's why I tried to,

you know,

I tried to start something,

you know,

try to fund with my friend,

who you have as your guest,

Dr. Julie Underwood,

to try to do something about it,

and try to get rid of voucher

schools in Wisconsin.

Well, and Kirk,

Johnny and I,

we're doing this,

and we talk about it, you know,

there's been a relentless attack

on public education.

It's 40 years now,

the reality,

and so it is time to fight back.

I think at this way past time,

but thank you for stepping in

and hearing that call,

because Johnny,

we talk about it all the time.

It's like public education

and democracy and freedom.

You can't have freedom

and democracy without public

education,

and recognizing the connection there

is essential,

and again,

to the partnership with civic media,

bringing forward the idea

of the democracy.

I feel like,

you didn't have a show about schools

and schooling.

No, no, no.

We have a show about democracy.

Yeah, and that important,

inseparable relationship between,

you know,

public education,

and where we learn

our core democratic value.

So you brought up freedom,

you know,

liberty is a core democratic value.

That term gets hijacked all the time, right?

By political interests

that want to just separate it

from other core democratic values,

like equality,

like justice,

all of the other ones.

Truth, trust,

these important core democratic values.

Where do we learn those?

And our public schools.

So it's no coincidence

that we've defunded public schools

to the point where they're struggling

and we can't strengthen democracy.

So Kirk, what you're doing

with all the good people

in the state of Wisconsin

are doing to organize

and to stand up for public schools.

They're saying we need strong

places where we can learn

to be democratic citizens,

where we can have a strong democracy.

So all these defenders of democracy

here tonight,

it's great to be with you all.

And you're out there listening.

Thanks for being a listener.

And now come through.

Come through and support

Monacoa Brewing Company.

But also when you're supporting

Monacoa Brewing Company,

you're supporting democracy

and the kind of grassroots organizing

and the community building.

That's happening here.

It's really powerful

and it's great to be here.

Yeah, Kirk.

I mean, this what a great

time moment for you to step

into this realm.

We talk about it 40 years.

And again, in Wisconsin,

really to the signature

attack on public schools

in Milwaukee,

the voucher scheme.

Let's call it.

You know, the just feeding up

on innocent people

taking advantage of a situation

when we say,

you know, what was going on in Milwaukee?

The schools had already been defunded.

They hadn't been appropriately funded

to the point.

And then we come in and say,

we've got failing schools.

Vouchers are born.

Choices moving on.

You know, 35 years later,

vouchers have done nothing,

except create division.

Re-continue to move public dollars

out of the public schools

into private hands

with no accountability,

no ability to then say what is being taught.

The whole idea of a public school

devoted to democracy

when you fund a voucher system

in running in this,

you're actually funding the destruction

of democracy on purpose.

And so this is what brought you

to this fight, Kirk, right?

Yeah.

So I came to this fight.

I basically talked to Julie Underwood

and she said, Kirk,

you can't raise enough

to fix the funding formula

because that's crazy.

It's going to take years and years and years.

But vouchers are against the law

in the Constitution of Wisconsin.

And we can do this.

So we try to do a Hail Mary.

We try to go straight

to the Supreme Court

with an original action.

Unfortunately,

we failed,

but that doesn't mean we failed the cause.

It just means we have to start the lawsuit,

you know,

look probably in Madison

and then keep going.

And Dr. Underwood's going to talk

about what's happening going forward.

But what you said was,

you know, I just jumped into this last July.

There's a ton of people in this room

who've been doing this for 30 years

and to tell you the truth,

we probably could have got

that Supreme Court case

if I wasn't leading a charge

and Julie was the face of this.

Because nobody knew

that I was.

And so I could have used

a little more team building

and a little bit more community building

in order to get that thing across the peninsula.

I think the problem

was you didn't sing enough for them

the way you were doing earlier.

Oh, yeah.

Because, man,

you're lucky we don't have you singing.

Talk about a voice,

man, opera singing,

just dropping it.

Man, American Idol,

watch out, Kirk thinks

that's coming for you next time, man.

It's Busted Pencils,

fully-ledged education talk,

educated educators,

talking education,

Johnny's now,

educated educators,

entrepreneurs talking education.

And you know what?

That's the thing.

It's really nice to see people

who are finding a way to build community

and to participate

in the local economy

in a way that strengthens democracy.

I mean, those two things

can coexist.

And this is a great example of it.

And that's,

we say all the time,

when you're supporting your public schools,

you're supporting your local economy.

Well, folks out there with,

you know, who have small businesses

and, you know,

are participating in their local economy,

that goes for you too.

Like, there are ways

that you can partner

with your schools

and with the fight to protect

and defend and strengthen

public education.

You're strengthening democracy.

It's just a wise investment.

So, Kirk, we applaud you.

We're grateful.

And I really want to say,

thank you, man.

You're humility here tonight.

You know, admitting that

this is not easy work

and there are some very experienced

organizers here who know that.

But you, you know,

you come into the fight

and you join in

and you continue to show up.

It goes a long way.

So, I appreciate you for that, my man.

Defender of democracy, Kirk here.

Thank you, my friend.

There's no lack of narcissism in my part.

I just sold a t-shirt that says,

I am Kirk Banks said to hide

from the Forest County Sheriff

when they're hunting me

for my defamation.

So, I appreciate your gesture,

but it's not right.

Well, say, you just,

I mean, you got to come down

to the tap room here in Madison,

office, Washington,

Manakwa Brewing Company,

because it's not just a place to drink beer.

I mean, there's an experience

as Johnny was saying,

you know, you feel safe.

You feel welcomed.

You feel like you're invited

to come in and have a conversation

about democracy,

about the realities that we're dealing with.

And on top of that, Kirk,

you've got some amazing swag available.

You know, you've got t-shirts, hats,

coffee mugs.

Tell us a little bit, though,

just about.

I mean, it's not what brewing

the beer has turned into a brand,

you were talking about.

Tell us how,

it's a progressive brand.

Well, I'll tell one story.

Yeah, give us one story only.

Well, two stories.

One, the University of Wisconsin

Madison sent me a season

to cis letter for pro-badgers pro-choice.

I don't know if that was very funny,

because I'm definitely a badger,

whether they want to say it or not.

The other one here

is Unhinged Woman,

which is a very funny story.

I get trolled relentlessly by the right,

and somebody gave me a one-star review

and said,

the beer is terrible.

The food is terrible,

which we haven't served for three years.

And third,

the owner is an unhinged woman.

Oh, well.

So then,

so I basically took a bike ride around Lake Manona

and I ended up at Sardine,

Sardine,

Sardine,

I don't know how to say it.

And I had a class of

a Savignon Blanc,

and I was like,

oh my god,

I call my graphic designer.

I'm like,

we're going to make the sexiest shirt

that says Unhinged Woman.

Let's make it like Foxy Brown

from the 70s.

And apparently it resonated

with lots of people,

because that was the number one

shelling shirt I've ever done.

So make sure

that you check this out.

And you say,

you're sitting at,

we're here at Menakwa Brewery,

the tap house,

Madison,

we're with the owner,

entrepreneur,

Kirk Banks,

and again,

check out the website,

www.sardine.com,

where you can get

all of this.

I mean, 44 states,

Johnny,

we talked about the real one.

You can get this here.

I tell you what,

Johnny, you know what,

Kirk,

love it.

Appreciate you, man.

But we got to get to the real guests now,

when we're coming up, you know.

Absolutely.

Yeah, you know,

so I'm looking forward to this,

because,

as you said,

we've got the extraordinary,

the expert,

the idea,

the voucher person,

the goddess.

Ah,

she's right there.

You know,

she can't find anybody.

Yeah,

Julie Underwood,

Busted Pencils,

next.

I'll share with you and then you can cry.

Ah, there it is. Busted Pencils,

fully,

let it education talk,

educated educators talking education.

We are here on location,

Menakwa Brewing Company Tap House,

East Washington Madison, Wisconsin,

just finished talking to the owner,

Kirk Banks,

that again,

partnership,

Menakwa Brewing Company,

Busted Pencils,

Civic Media,

making sure that democracy,

public education,

though is the foundation of democracy,

so therefore,

supporting public education,

making democracy great again,

making democracy great again.

How about that?

I like the idea.

You know,

making,

but,

so Julie,

though,

we have our guest here,

Dr. Julie Underwood,

and Julie,

you, Kirk,

really speaks incredibly highly of the work that you've done,

that you did to bring him in.

On the vouchers,

though,

you didn't,

you attempted to say,

hey,

vouchers schools are illegal

in the state of Wisconsin.

Are they illegal in the state of Wisconsin still,

and where is this lawsuit heading next?

I give us an update.

Well, I'd give you an update,

and, um,

which one,

this one,

this one.

Um,

in my opinion,

vouchers have been illegal since they were first passed in 1990,

when they were inflicted on the,

the Milwaukee Public Schools,

and they were intentionally inflicted on the Milwaukee Public Schools

for all sorts of reasons,

but they were unconstitutional then.

It's not just illegal.

It's unconstitutional as part of the Wisconsin Constitution,

and they were in,

unconstitutional when they started,

and then they kept adding,

more and more of them,

um, kind of like ramped it up,

you know,

it started as a small experimental program in 1990,

and with one district,

and now we have four different choice programs,

not the choice that women talk about,

but there are voucher programs,

four different voucher programs,

and it's costing the state over a half a billion dollars a year.

So, I mean,

it's an incredibly important thing to do,

and yes, it is still unconstitutional.

And it's draining money out of the public schools.

It's still illegal,

and you say,

in over those 30 plus years,

it's expanded.

Oh, God, yeah.

I mean, and again,

we don't anymore even make the conversations

about that this is about helping kids get out of struggling failing schools.

This is just now,

it's a parents,

it's a parents right to get a voucher.

Okay, so the way we hear this now.

But let's unpack,

let's just unpack that for a second,

because the notion that this is to get kids out of failing schools

is baloney to begin with.

I'm going to use my good terms here.

Yes, please, thank you.

It's baloney,

that's the technical legal term for it.

With a B.

With a B.

And because one,

as you mentioned,

you know,

the state was defunding public schools on and on and on and on and on.

And then they turned around and said,

well, wait a second,

you're not doing your job.

Well, holy moly.

Of course they're not able to do what they did when,

when long time ago,

when Kirk went to school,

because they've been defunding schools over and over and over again.

So that's one.

Two, the notion that these programs are set up

so that kids who are in public schools can leave the public schools

and then go to a private school is also technically baloney

because so many of these children

have never been in public schools.

Ah, yeah.

I mean, it's not a sector switcher kind of thing.

Like over 70% of the kids in the statewide program

have never been in public schools.

So the only thing that changes from year one to year two

is who pays the bill.

Exactly.

And we've heard about that too.

The most people reaping the benefits of vouchers.

In other words, using taxpayer money,

they were already had their kids in private schools.

They were doing their, you know,

which they're allowed to do.

And in fact, we said we need a good thriving private school system.

People make that decision.

They make that commitment.

They have the money.

They pay for it.

But now though,

you say the voucher is the idea that this is going to,

going to people that are already, that were already in private schools.

It's now subsidizing their private school.

So you have taxpayer money that's supposed to be going to your local public school

to fund the essentials for a quality edge.

Your local taxpayer money.

Right.

You know, and instead though,

and we've heard some of the stories out of Florida

where truly the unrestricted vouchers

where people in private schools are like,

you know what, we're going to take our $7,000 state money.

We don't need the money to pay for our private school.

But boy, a new hot tub will be nice.

And there they, and seriously, there are the stories like that.

Yeah.

You know, people will say,

because once that money is given to the parents,

it's their money to make a decision on how to spend it.

Parents who've already made the commitment to put their kids in private schools,

they've already paid for it.

Now they're just getting,

some people are getting slash fund money.

Sure.

But you know, also one of the other things that they started out with

was that this was going to be some competitive notion.

You know, this is capitalism at its best.

We're going to have competition between schools

and so it's going to improve all schools.

That's what they told Milwaukee.

That's what they told the Milwaukee community.

This is going to improve every school in the entire area in Milwaukee.

But they take the money from the public school.

And then they, and that money goes to the private school,

plus they put all sorts of non-regulations on the private school.

They don't have to abide by nearly anything.

So like my private school,

if I'm cool with teaching dinosaurs and people hanging out together,

worshiping the Bible,

that's a great thing to use public money on.

Sure.

Or, you know, you can have, you know,

the trees in a school of high school or whatever.

It doesn't matter.

Yeah, and I just want to get into it,

because I kind of fall in the middle of this in terms of,

well, truly you're in the middle of this.

Yeah, right.

Right in the middle.

But one of the really dangerous parts,

this is it opened up a money grab, right?

Yeah.

So we're talking about it in terms of traditionally private and public schools.

And you know, we know like the private school choices

and the public school offerings.

But what this did is it created,

it brought in a whole different paradigm,

a premise that there would be an economy,

an opportunity to make money

of having a school.

And so you have these pop-up schools,

literally like McDonald's versions,

like fast food versions of schools,

where now we are taking something that is important to the public good,

our public school system,

and opening it up to this sort of free market mentality

or you know, logic structure that it's going to get better

if we create more competition, right?

And it just hasn't delivered.

It won't deliver.

It doesn't work when we're talking about things like education.

So the privatization, it opened up this money grab,

where literally in a lot of states,

anybody can open a school.

And you can get that money.

And sadly, not everybody is interested in the well-being of

all children being educated well, right?

And so that's part of the common good

and why democracy is so important,

is it's witness to that value,

that public education, a good education,

ought to be something every child in this country has,

or at least because it's a state, right?

In your state, right?

Every child should have a good education.

And the solution isn't to offer competition

and opportunity for it to be marketized.

Because you can't have a democracy,

unless you have an educated citizenry,

and everybody has to be educated

so they can all participate.

Okay, so Julie, update,

go refiling the lawsuit.

Refiling the lawsuit?

As Kirk said, refiling the lawsuit,

we will be filing the lawsuit,

just like everybody else does in a trial court,

and take it as far as we need to.

Dr. Julie Underwood, busted pencils.

Check it out, though.

Everybody here, questions from the audience,

when we get back.

Thank you.

That's what you want to do.

Find that rose beneath your feet.

Who would gently don't break it off?

It's busted pencils.

Only let it education talk.

Educated educators talking education.

We are live on location.

Oh, yeah, we are.

We're a brewing company.

Tap House, Madison, Wisconsin.

He's sitting here, owner, Kirk Banks dad.

Dr. Julie Underwood.

Having a conversation, the voucher schools,

the funding, the lawsuit that went into this,

and at this point, though, too,

we would typically, with the show, take collars,

but we don't have to take collars because we've got...

We've got a pack towel.

In the house here.

That's right.

So we're going to start taking some questions.

We have our first question.

I'm going to hand it over here to you, sir.

All right.

Our first question is from Mike.

Take it away, Mike.

Hello.

So one of the things that feeds into the family schools narrative

is extremely biased and inaccurate standardized testing platform

that only supports a pretty socio-economic inequality

and, yeah, and privilege.

So is there something we need to do as a community

to combat that narrative with our neighbors?

Because one of the things I've noticed is when we talk about family schools,

we kind of talk about reading scores and reading apps

as opposed to actually looking at the whole child

who just tries to put it to America.

Michael, so the question...

Yeah, Michael, John, thank you so much.

Milwaukee teachers...

Milwaukee teachers incorporated.

Madison, I'm sorry.

Yeah, Madison, Michael.

Michael had the question about standardized,

high-stake standardized testing

and how they're playing into the failing schools narrative.

And Julie, he's right, right?

I mean...

Absolutely, he's right.

I mean, if you think about the way standardized tests were created

and how they were standardized,

it does kind of fulfill the narrative of kids with privilege are going to do well

because the tests are written for kids of privilege to do well, right?

It doesn't tell you much past that.

And we have to change that kind of...

not just the narrative, but we have to change the entire industry

so we can actually correctly help children learn.

And, you know, we have lots of people who are educators in this room.

You all know how to write tests.

You know how to assess kids' learning.

I mean, that's what we do.

But the standardized test industry doesn't do it that way.

And Michael, you think about this too, right?

It is this push for assessment.

We'll use these words.

And the reality is that it's a gotcha moment.

And the test scores come out.

And I like the way you refer to it.

It is my neighbor then hears the news story about test scores

and how bad the test scores are.

And my neighbor is thinking, well, that's a problem.

And the reality here is that we understand that that's really not what's happening.

So when you hear proficiency, my neighbor doesn't understand proficiency

versus grade at grade level.

All of this toxic way of speaking about quote failing

and the reality is that, you know, no.

So we definitely have to do better.

I would say this.

So busted pencils, Johnny and I were always talking about saying,

we need to get to our neighbors.

We know this room and we know you listening out there.

We know you get it.

Our neighbors.

But we got to talk to them in a way though that we don't offend them and attack them.

We have to invite them to that conversation about what do test scores mean.

How can they tell us good information?

And what can they tell us that we should never apply to a test score like that, Johnny.

And I'm just going to be really blunt about it because I'm sitting here

and I'm looking at a science that's drink beer and don't be racist.

But I think all of us as educators, we're educating to have the world we want.

Our children's children to have.

And that is one that we don't have to constantly respond to racism because it's gone.

And so this is when you can't have a strong democracy without addressing that important thing

and that privilege, we don't want schools to be back the way they were when they were unequal.

We want them improved and we want to take that hat on and have really anti-racist education

and opportunity for all of our children.

It's seriously diversity, not just as a slogan, but as a really important lived experience

that our young children are having and we want for their children's children.

Can I say one more thing?

Yeah, Julie.

So I want to say one more thing specifically in the state of Wisconsin.

And this is something that is not known generally by everybody in their neighbor.

You guys know it, but your neighbors don't know it and you need to tell people this.

The same time that the state of Wisconsin raised the number for passing, right?

They raised the stakes, they raised the proficiency level.

The same time they did that, they cut schools funding significantly.

Yeah.

That is not just a coincidence.

No, not at all.

It's busted pencils fully let it education talk.

I see right here one of our colleagues, Joe Anna, teacher Joe Anna.

Those of you who listen, educators amplified Milwaukee Teachers Education Association.

Joe Anna, what's happening, our friend?

Oh my gosh.

Well, I am so excited to be here with you guys at the Managua Tap House.

And seeing all these wonderful people engage in the conversation about education.

You know the spirit, the swing that I bring is educators amplified.

We talk directly about the teacher experience, which everyone likes to talk about education,

but not many people like to talk directly to teachers about their experience.

Or it comes through their filter.

And so my partner, Halle and I have a show called Educators Amplified where we focus on that.

And we also focus on the idea that many of us talk about what we don't want in education.

Or we talk about hanging on to what we currently have.

And Halle and I focus on the third way.

Ah, the third way?

I don't know if I call it the third way, but something different.

And that's a frustration of ours.

That we have our groups like with the vouchers and charters saying what they don't want is public education.

And then we have public education supporters who are just trying to hang on to what we currently have.

Being deep in it, I'm a 28 year educator.

I would say we need to improve on what we currently have.

But we use things like standardization and the metrics to continue to define.

And so what Mike Jones talked about was a little bit more of that new definition

that we need to build systems around to support.

John, you picked that up, man.

Well, I just want, I mean, Educators Amplified, let's amplify it.

I mean, that's not only inspirational, but spot on, right?

We want something radically different.

And that that's what's included in adequately funding public schools.

It's not just repairing, you know, things.

It's really thinking about how do we educate children in a way that honors the children's rights.

Health and well-being, not just their test scores, right?

Them as whole beings, as full human beings, all of our diverse children.

And they're right, not only a good education, right?

Because that's not just measured with a number, but they're well-rounded health,

how they're feeling, how they're responding in the moment, the kind of care they have.

So that's, I mean, I don't think anybody here is opposed to that, but it's a good reminder

because sometimes we're so used to just asking for enough to get by.

Enough to get by and what, and I like what I hear teacher Joanne talking about too,

is that, and what we want to come forward is not just the same.

We're not holding on to this. We want better.

We want, it's got to be public.

It's not an abandoning a public because it's like public.

We understand that that's the foundation of democracy.

Can the public schools that we, our children, deserve, our teachers deserve?

What would they look like under a reimagined framework?

We wouldn't be using high-stakes, standardized test scores to rank and sort people

the way we do in this way.

We need a new system to really balance that out.

There it is. We need to bust a pencil.

Look at that. There we go.

Pencils are bustin'.

Another question.

Another question. And I just want to address the standardized testing

because not only is it a horrible measure of student achievement,

it is a norm reference.

So it is written for, once you get about 50%,

you fail and they renorm it.

So you never win on that one.

And yet that's a measure we're using to predict student achievement.

So it's a crazy system.

But more importantly, if you can on specifics,

address what has happened to the state of Wisconsin.

Let's say, let's use the year 2010.

And how we have, yeah, guess who was governor in 2010?

And how that has financially impacted our Wisconsin public schools.

And how dire is the situation?

I think that's a jolly question.

Dr. Underwood.

I think that everybody heard Claudia's question, right?

And we are using 2010.

Because, you know, if you look at 2008,

Wisconsin's doing not great, but still is in the top half,

and maybe in the top 25 states in the nation in terms of

using the metric funding.

And then, of course, we had Act 10.

What do you all feel about Act 10?

There, enough said, right?

Well, not only was Act 10 intended to bust the union,

but it also gutted education funding.

And we took a huge, just a huge tank

in terms of cutting our revenue limits,

which are our spending limits.

For those of you who don't like to talk,

nerdy talk about school finance in the state of Wisconsin,

our spending limits were dropped and state money came out,

and we have not recovered from that whole.

Since 2010, we have not recovered from that cut.

And if you think about it just in terms of inflationary increases,

we are right now for public schools.

Now, the private voucher schools are doing better

because they keep getting raises.

But for our public schools, we are over $3,000 per student

behind inflation if we had just kept pace in that time.

So, if you think about running a business,

if you think about any other normal kind of business,

if you hadn't had an inflationary increase in all of these years,

you would be out of business.

But, you know what, I'm thinking about that too, though, Julie.

And we've also heard how that has affected the wages of teachers

over those past 14 years that under fund or defunding in the fact

is that where teachers find themselves today with their salaries

is also reflective of that cut.

Well, it's...

So, when you haven't kept pace and you're $3,000 below,

per student, and just, you know, do the multiplication on that one,

per student, what that means is you're going to have low wages

for everybody, you're going to have low benefits for everybody,

and you're going to have fewer and fewer positions.

And the fewer and fewer positions we're seeing, you know,

particularly in support staff and special education staff,

it's not a pretty picture and it's not sustainable.

And then you throw on that, though, too.

So, we're cutting positions, but we still also in the state of Wisconsin,

and I know all across the country, there's a massive teacher shortage.

I know people have seen me and listened to me for the longest time.

I hate the word shortage. It's an exodus.

It's an intentional routing teachers out of the profession,

making them, creating the conditions and where teachers say,

enough's enough, I can't do this anymore.

I'm out of here.

Not on top of the pay, you've got at the union,

you've given me more responsibilities that don't have anything to do with teaching.

And now, you're going to hand me a scripted curriculum and tell me that I must teach

at a certain moment in time the science of this, the science of that.

The problem is, as we keep hearing about this,

is there's no science behind the science of things.

It's just a new rhetoric about how we're going to sell new curriculum.

And continue the de-professionalizing of teachers putting them,

and again, in that same spot, we don't want you to think,

we don't want you to do what it is that you came to this passionately to do,

how you came to lift children out, to be a role model for somebody.

To be like that teacher was to you, no, we want you to stay on script.

And we wonder why, we wonder why, what's happening,

how are we going to ever have teachers?

Well, that's what we're doing here every night.

First of all, Boston pencils fully-led at Education Talk.

Every night of the week Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.

And now this partnership with Monaco Brewing Company,

making sure that we're coming to the locations to talk about public education,

the foundation of democracy, and making sure that we can have conversations

in spaces all over this state, and then all over this country,

because we need to reclaim public education for what it is.

It is our key to freedom.

It is the key to democracy.

Busted pencils fully-led.

We got more people who want to talk to us next.

Yeah, we know it's that time you hear that music.

Busted pencils fully-led at Education Talk.

We got one more round live from the Monaco Brewing Company Tap Room.

Johnny, tell us why.

Well, I mean, we're here as part of a partnership.

I'm Bustle Pencils, a sponsor by the Monaco Brewing Company,