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Fully Letted Education Talk.
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Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci,
Educator's Talking Education.
Welcome Tuesday Night Busted Pencils fully.
Letted Education Talk, Educator's Talking Education.
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Johnny, it is Tuesday.
We made an announcement yesterday that this was.
Oh, we tasted it.
I would taste it.
But while trending news and then you know, it's like.
We didn't have a guess.
I'm like, wait, we do though.
I forgot all about this.
Yes, we do.
So, you know, we put out a call for volunteers.
We've answered that call.
I find people out on Facebook on on X or whatever it's called now.
And I identify them like these sound like a good guess.
Well, there's this Mrs. K out on X putting out provocative statements
about teaching and learning.
And I was just like, hey, you'd be a good guest on Busted Pencils.
She's like, well, really?
And so we brought her in.
We're going to bring her in though.
So let's check this out.
Mrs. K.
Well, that's Melinda Carstner.
She holds a master's degree in teaching with an emphasis in curriculum and design.
She's got 20 years in education teaching elementary, middle school, math,
Johnny, science and robotics.
Welcome to Busted Pencils.
Mrs. K.
How are you Mrs. K?
I'm good.
Thank you both so much for having me today.
I'm excited to chat education with you.
I know.
Excellent.
Excellent, excellent.
Excellent.
It is a good stuff.
So I.
Getting you to the show though.
Yeah.
I think I was out.
Was is it called trolling when you're out just certs going through X and stuff like that?
I don't know what it was.
Scrolling.
Scrolling.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I wasn't.
I just look out there.
I'm like, you know, where it isn't.
I come across you and you hit a spot for me because it was instantly a critique of testing.
And as we were saying before before the show began, Johnny, I was sharing with Mrs. K.
That actually in 2011, I took no child left behind on full force and opted my children out of high stakes testing.
And you know what?
That brought us back into talking about saying, you know, I think we might have something in common.
Because as a classroom teacher, Mrs. K, you seem to also put out a sense of going, hmm,
a little bit of concerning.
And in fact, we were talking about this.
It is testing right now where you are.
You're in Colorado.
Correct.
Yeah.
So right now we are in the midst of what's called sea mass testing.
So we've been doing.
This is our second week last week.
We did L.A.
And it's through tests, 90 minutes.
My sweet pork graders read some passages and then wrote some what looked like intense essays.
I wish that I could read them, but you know, it's all very locked down.
So I'll never be able to see them, but it looked like they did great.
Yeah, this week we're doing math.
So it's just been, it's kind of a drug of two weeks.
And I think the hard part as an educator is really like losing that two weeks of instruction that is very much needed.
And then we have another month of school left.
So it's just this weird system that I think just needs a lot of adjustment.
And it just should be better for kids in my opinion.
90 minutes a day, you said right for testing.
And fourth graders, those are nine and ten year olds?
Yes, nine and ten year olds.
Okay, nine and ten year olds.
So every day for two weeks sitting for 90 minutes doing testing.
Yeah, well, three days a week.
So there's three tests in each subject areas.
And then fifth graders, and I believe eighth graders have to do science.
And some year, fourth graders get to do social studies.
So it would be three weeks, three days.
And which is just a lot for kids.
It's a lot.
And then I think like I was watching them last week really dive into the writing that they were doing again.
I wish that I know what the pump was.
I wish I could see it.
They were working so hard and they were so involved.
And I think there's a sadness for me and for them.
Like they'll never be able to look back at the essay.
I'll never be able to look at the essay.
Their parents will never be able to celebrate that essay with them.
So there's just some kind of like, what are we even doing?
And I think it could be reformed to be more useful in the classroom, to be more useful instruction.
That it just doesn't feel like it's genuinely sucking two weeks out of these kids.
They're nine and ten of their education.
It's just a lot.
The description, though, you had said that too.
And I think that's really this past week where I saw you putting this on on X.
Was that that reflection of recognizing that doing doing their writing assignments and the.
The passion and the commitment that these nine and ten year olds were giving it to putting into doing their best writing.
And for anybody who's listening going, well, you know, yeah, that's what you do in school.
We test them on writing.
You understand in this situation in this setting, what you just said, Mrs. K, though, is is that they are reading a writing prompt that essentially is a sentence that says, you know,
describe your most favorite family vacation or something like that.
And off they go, you as the teacher don't get to see that prompt.
They spend how much time really writing their greatest stuff.
You never get to read it.
The parents never get to read it.
Some bureaucrat who hired some testing company who then hired some other contractor.
Who at this point, we're not even sure if that person might be a person is going to then score those written documents.
Send in the results, not to you, just to wherever.
And so here it is then.
What are they doing this for?
Yeah, and I think that's the end of my problem.
Like we see the scores.
And so I know if a kid is reaching proficiency.
I know what standards they're doing well on, but I think right from a teaching standpoint, especially I think it's taking two weeks.
It's not the best way to inform my instruction.
Certainly not this year.
Not so much next year either because next year when we get to school, we won't see the result until September.
By then we've already done all the assessments that we need to do to see what kids mean.
What are there any kids in fourth grade that still need to coding?
Are there any kids like what?
What do they need?
Do they need enrichment?
Do they need this?
Do they need that?
So we've already done that right when we get back.
And we already have the information we need to drive our instruction.
So I think if this was like a day of testing a day of math, a day of language arts, I'd be like, cool.
Okay, that's great, but we did it.
The state gets an information.
It's all standardized.
We can see like, are the kids getting what they need?
Are the kids where they need to be?
Do we need to make adjustments based on these two days of testing?
I think I have very little problem with it then.
It's the amount of time that it's taking in my opinion away from authentic instruction and then producing authentic things that they're proud of.
And that they can look back on.
Johnny, do you bring them back memories to when you were in the classroom, dude?
I mean, Tim, yes.
But I fortunately, you know, in my classroom teaching time, we didn't have as many days as teachers have now taken.
It's really crept.
It's really like seeped in, right?
It's spread like, you know, like kudzu plant.
I mean, it just like once you start doing this testing, it's like, wait, we're testing again this week.
Oh my gosh, another day, another day.
So, you know, when I was teaching, it wasn't all the time.
And it wasn't as frequent as so many classrooms across our country experience.
So it is bringing back some memories.
But I also remember being in a place where, you know, Mrs. K is sharing like, I can see sometimes why we have these tests.
Like, okay, great.
But behind the scenes, Tim, what we know is like those scores are also communicated back to us as teachers.
And then for parents seeing those scores and things in kinds of terms that don't really tell a whole lot in terms of where their child really is.
In terms of we could say they're proficient or not proficient.
And what we had the experts on last week, you know, at least two times in the last month, Tim, saying is like that doesn't necessarily mean they're behind.
That the proficiency is set so high sometimes at the top 20%.
So if you can imagine like a bell curve, you to be above proficient, you're in that top 20th percentile.
And everything not in that is deemed as, you know, not proficient or, you know, we start to think of it's not at grade level because that's typically what we think of when we're doing these kinds of assessments is like where is my third grade or are they at third grade level.
And what we're learning is that that's not even the case anymore.
We've we've increased the amount of work young people are doing in classrooms.
And and behind that is like underwriting that is the hard work teachers are doing to make sure these young people are meeting all these learning goals and having these opportunities to learn.
So we just keep stacking the expectations higher and higher, removing the time for instruction like Mrs. K is talking about like, OK, give me a couple of days every now and then.
But to take essentially I think I did a little of a math in my head quickly fellow math teacher let's go with the math.
You know, but I counted at least nine hours of course across two weeks that young people are sitting taking a test, the kind of impact that has on a young learner all kinds, even if you are, you know, really comfortable, you know, sitting and getting, which tons of kids need to move around and being engaged in more ways than just sitting there.
But nine hours over the course of two weeks of filling in bubbles or punching in, you know, if it's on if it's on a computer system, you know, just taking tests.
I have to imagine that that's less about engagement, more about forced compliance and not really telling us a whole lot of what we as teachers need.
You know, Mrs. K, I got to tell you one thanks for being a teacher because I always say this is some of the best work we can do in our in our country to be defenders of democracy to invest in future generations, but you're out there doing the work you're in your classroom.
So I got to ask you what is your favorite part about being a teacher because I'm going to connect it back, but I just think teaching is so great that when we get a great teacher on I just want to highlight that that what is it you love about being a teacher.
I mean, I think and I mean, I've been a teacher for 20 years now. So I've had opportunities to go outside in the classroom and always find myself coming back.
I really enjoy working with kids. I think it's fun. It's just really fun. And I found out of the classroom even in small, even when there's one year where I did just just math in elementary school for gifted kids.
And it just I don't know. I think it was the absence of honestly, I think language arts where you're really getting kids to become critical thinkers and especially in fourth and fifth grade in middle school.
They're really coming up with their own ideas and they're becoming their own person and you're getting them to analyze information and to really grow as the productive numbers of society.
There's just something that's what for me to education. I originally was going to be an engineer and to my especially dad's horror switch to teaching.
And I mean, we still joke about that a lot and he will laugh like you would be making like, I don't know, 10 times as much money, but you made the right choice.
It's like you're happier in this career. I think things got kind of weird the last four years in education as we all know, but it just really is a joyful profession.
Love and it misses K our guest on busted pencils fully let it education talk eight five five seven five two four eight four two.
We got Mrs. K back and we're going to do trending news with Mrs. K right when we get back.
Yeah, help is on the way but the pencils fully let it education talk educated educators talking education our guest Mrs. K teacher 20 years plus experience just going through though these last two weeks dealing with testing testing testing Johnny though.
You put that question to Mrs. K. Yeah, we're going to hold on the news about what it is. Keep going Johnny Lupinati.
Well, I mean one our listeners got to hear it's always a gift when we have a teacher on every Wednesday.
We have teacher Joanna teacher Halle, but tonight we have our guest Mrs. K who has taught you know 20 years and keeps bringing us back to this essence of you know being present at young people forming opinions having you know developing.
Sort of a critical literacy how you know how they take information in and and then apply it and and that is really relational and so being in the classroom in those ways where teachers.
Like we've talked about before they have they're highly skilled they have a craft almost like an art in being present at new at the birth of new ideas.
And it's such an important thing that young people have someone who loves to be around them and who genuinely finds a calling and also has a set of expert skills at that.
And this is like this is you know you know Mrs. K sharing this what we're talking about great teaching and really good teaching is relational.
And I can't help but think and it is flashbacks when Tim he said are you reminded something you know this the way standardized testing and then canned curriculums and Tim you brought in some of those materials last week we talked about them and you know the idea of teacher proofing a classroom of like you know making it so we don't have that opportunity is part of why so many people leave teaching.
And so I can't help but say one thank you Mrs. K for the work you do but to for have like reminding our listeners that like great teaching is relational and you described it so well like be having that be part of your day to day hard work is rewarding.
But you also said it's getting hard the last few years it's like we see lots of people leaving education and we've been thrown multiple curve balls whether it's covid or whether it's you know the defunding of our schools are increased harder school.
Movements and so it and a polarized political climate where there's all kinds of legislators thing what we can and can't do in the classroom and you're like hey I've been doing this for a really long time I'm pretty good at it and you seem to be making it harder and harder.
For us to do what experts and I'll put kind of quotes on extras but really researchers around the world have said hey good teaching it's really relational and it's important that we have people that understand that so I just want to thank you again for that work but then say like but then say I mean we can't think our teachers enough at least like in the world right now we it's a top time to be a teacher so hey let's praise our teachers let's lift them up but let's also acknowledge that they're doing really important highly skilled hard work.
Hard work so thank you for that and then to like we can jump into trending news but I wondered maybe you could speak a little bit to that like relational part of teaching and how testing kind of either interferes with that or kind of interrupts that flow.
Yeah and I think I think if I reflect on my success as a teacher most of it is the relational part and and thank you for pointing out like how the level of skill that a really good teacher needs is really high on top of and we've skilled with the relationships building and then skilled with delivering the content and understanding how I can speak right now I'm so trying to understand.
Understanding everything that needs we need to know the knowledge of teaching reading and the science behind teaching in general teaching and learning and yeah I feel like I mean I know like my encoded hit in March there was this deep morning from teachers because this time here that time here that everything shut down is like the magic part of the year we've done all this work to build our community and we've done all this work to get kids where they need to go and
they finally have all these skills that they need to really produce and then it's this magical time of year and where we're doing amazing things with them and they're producing amazing projects and testing is this truly kind of crunch where we have all this momentum and we've done all this stuff and they are writing persuasive essays and they have all of these ideas and then hold on everybody we've got to pause.
We're going to do this test and you're still going to show off all the skills that you have but kind of in a different way more boring way and then we'll pick back up and hopefully we can get that momentum again and so I think that's for me another part of this like testing role because it's so long it does take that momentum that we've built we've worked them hard we've gotten them to not to be cliche to move mountains and they're here their office really great point.
And now we need to do testing and now let's please get back to all the cool stuff that we're ready to do so well how thinking of that though to how do the kids adjust to that I mean from your experience now so I mean how how are they you say they're in their focus they're passionate they're putting their best effort in.
How do I do any of them say I don't want to do this Mrs. K or any of them nervous about the results because they have they fully realize why they're doing these tests at this point you know what's the atmosphere like in school during this you know I was reading last night that there's a school and this was happening back when I was opting my kids out though you know pep rallies for tests to get the kids ready and psyched up for testing.
And I saw actually our guest last night Johnny Mitchell Robinson was like you have got to be kidding me that schools are putting on pep rallies to get kids ready for testing Melinda Mitch's a state board of education member and Michigan and a professor he's actually putting forth a resolution next week to actually get rid of high stakes testing in the state of Michigan it'll be a resolution.
But he's really just like really apprally I mean what is it so a child who's sitting there they're excited are that do you see ones that are nervous do you see some that are internally kind of putting an anxiety together you're not in your head give me some examples of what you see in students eyes.
Yeah it's really all of the above so I think like in defense of the pep rally because it is such this like intensive two weeks and they aren't nervous about it and I get in teaching us so relational you really have to it's this weird balance of like getting the kids not to be too nervous because it's really not going to be a reflection on them but it kind of it's just this weird like I don't even know how to explain it to kids most of the time like you do have to do your best but
no of course we do you're not going to be held back like it's it's totally fine if you feel but also you can't feel you don't need to be nervous at all.
Let's be excited I kind of always approach it as like what is there chance to just show off what you know sometimes these tests have these questions that seem like they're here to trick kids so like this year we were like you're going to find the stress answer because you know it's really like the word says.
Yeah and you're going to make sure like you beat the test makers and you kind of have to because some of some of them are just okay with it some of them are really nervous you have to kind of ease the tension and it is it's just it's a lot especially again given what it is.
Which is not me yeah you know Tim I it's kind of mixed I I'm kind of with Mrs. K here like I always thought like I was part of this like there's there's this mixed bag like we're when you're throwing a pap rally for the test or like these things you you know on this other end like you're sort of co signing on something you're not agreeing with but at the same time also like trying to trying to signal to them like you matter we care about you we're going to try and get you some fun stuff.
And like just just go just do this please like we all have to when we come back to him I mean take us into the break but when we come back let's dive into that also one of the reasons why we had to do those pap rallies was because our count days we're testing days and so we had to make sure our kids are there because kids were like hey it's testing day I'm going to be home like I'm done with these things.
Oh man.
Coming back.
We are sweating well I don't know I am here.
I am.
Busted pencils fully let it education talk educated educators talking education our gas Mrs. K 20 year teacher out there on X making really great actually great comments about teaching and learning sparked busted pencils interest we put on an invitation to see if Mrs. K would want to come on as a teacher gas she accepted an invitation she's here.
Talking about the joys of teaching how you mix those with the sorrows of testing now how that all comes back but more importantly what Johnny was saying is is the thanks though that we especially it busted pencils want to give you Mrs. K and all of your colleagues out there for the work that you guys do every day because you say the relationships that you have with those kids and we know this for anybody who's been a teacher.
That is why you do it you're out there you know we get through the two weeks of testing we have to so that we can get back to those relationships and doing things that matter for children and families.
Here we go so we we're going to invite you Mrs. K one of the things we do on busted pencils is we like to look at education trending news and then do a little commentary on the news.
I have some news stories you know I try to not let Johnny know what's coming just so I can get his kind of gut reaction catch him off guard throw it out there so we're going to ask you though as a guest commentator on the news to just you know throw in what you think when you put when I put out these news stories so news story number one coming out of the K 12 dive democratic leaning states move to curb book bands freedom to read.
That legislation under consideration or past in several states would require libraries to present diverse points of view or risk losing fun.
And here we go not losing fun while maybe losing fun to more democratic leaning states are seeking to curb or prohibit book bands as a counter to the wave of curriculum and media censorship that has spread across the nation in recent years.
So now we've got states with book bands and now we're going to see states that have anti book bands and you teachers Mrs. K.
Are going to have to figure out which state you want to go to from now on whether you want to go to a book banning state or an anti book banning state what do you think about this news Mrs. K.
Well I I mean living in Colorado thank goodness we don't have the book banning legislation having on us but I think even and I will stay in whatever state does not have legislation my fat.
But I think even without book bands the culture is so intense and the rhetoric around book banning is so intense that I think there's still a lot of teachers even like in my state of Colorado.
So who still have this fear when wanting to include books that represent different cultures and different identities and I think I mean there's so much research out there on the importance of having books that near kids identities that we know it's necessary and yet I think just because of all of this that's going on even in states that are also safe.
From book fans are safer from book fans they're still that fear and so I think they're still teachers that even self sensor because it's this like if I have this book out there am I going to get in trouble because it's in a library because it's on display.
And Mrs. K said that in Johnny we look at this it's that chilling effect you say okay so you're quote in a potentially safe state and now Illinois now is actually considered the first state to absolutely actively no book bands in the state of Illinois however teachers should just say have heard this now for two years you know something and so whether or not you know my question would be is do the teachers in these states that are truly active.
They're actively against book bands are they letting go of that chilling effect to kind of self center Johnny we always say about this you know the intent really with these laws is never truly to enforce them because they're not really enforceable because they'll get dismissed in court cases their intent though is to scare.
And they work really well at scaring so will anti book bands re engage teachers I think is the question or has the chill already taken effect.
Johnny that's a good question because I I kind of echo with Mrs. K is sharing it doesn't matter what state you're in I mean I'm going to state that's very you know Democrat.
Run and also has pretty great teeth like great respect for teachers and has teacher autonomy and in most districts there are there's a there's a process to formally introduce books into the curriculum if they're going to be part of like a new course or anything and so there's a system of accountability.
That makes it sometimes feel like okay but I don't necessarily know with that chilling effect with that national political climate that we're in.
Like that doesn't mean that there won't be opposition to you know having like maybe queer identities in a story or having particular black history centered in a novel that we read I do think exactly Mrs. K said wherever you are like this is on your mind this is something you're thinking about and that's.
That's a that's a sad moment for for good teachers because what we know is we want to always present our students with the best information at developmental levels there at that mirrors back what maybe pediatricians or psychologists or you know experts have told us like young people have these diverse identities and that these stories help not only recognize but bring value to diversity in our community and when they're part of our learning that's essential and that's really good learning and so even if you're in a state that is say like.
Anti book banning there's still this whole political climate will like I have to also report on why and what i'm teaching and there's this fear like there's this myth that we're out here indoctrinating children you know or that we're trying to force particular views are ideas on them when in general we're really almost all of us I can't speak for every single teacher but every kid deserves to have a experience in a classroom that represents.
Valueing children children's rights human rights and especially that help through and I think about this in literature the books we're talking about help us understand the complex situations we're in as young people right and so whether it's a book about an immigrants experience or identity development I think these are really important to have in our classrooms and wherever you are I think there's been a chilling effect so I'm kind of glad that like these states have this.
Anti book banning legislation but again it just feels like people at a table throwing darts at each other like republicans and democrats hashing out something good teachers are like can you please just let us teach.
This is K jump in there Mrs. K yeah I can see that yeah I mean I feel that please just let us teach is so essential right now and I think we were talking earlier about teachers starting to leave the classroom and I think a lot.
Of this plays into that because it really is like we know it kids need we know there needs to be representation we know kids need mirrors they also need.
What reading sims Bishop called windows mirrors and doors where we they need to be exposed to diversity so that they can become critical consumers of information and they can become critical analyzing.
Their own life and others lives and understanding their place in the world and I think with all of this intensive legislation coming down.
Even like it's not in my state we're absent from this but there is still even sometimes I'm like I got this beautiful collection of books from conscious child who was giving out books that are representative.
To teachers any teacher that could it was an amazing grant that they have last summer and when I got them I was just like wanted to cry tears of joy to see.
The books that represented to moms and books that was represented just and anything there was like.
Quiet books and there's just everything you can imagine there's a book representing someone and I took them to my classroom and even I had the thought like oh my gosh am I going to get in trouble for some of these books and I was taken aback by even I had that thought like am I really questioning putting this beautiful picture book in my classroom yeah I am because.
Of the political climate we're in and I think that's just so sad right yeah it's sad and that's you know they say so congratulations yahu to the states that are making these passing Illinois you know having the what they're calling these are freedom to read legislations I kind of like that taken over you know.
Because the other side is always really great it's stealing great language and so the idea of saying that you know this is a state that you have the freedom to read and I think there's something powerful about that look forward to more freedom to read got another news story though here I want to get to you this is gay and Johnny here I get you on this one and yes I'm going to bring it up again Johnny but.
Hey from K-12 dive question is the headline how much are students using AI in their writing ah yes how much how much it's been a year since grading and plagiarism detection platform turn it in unveiled its artificial intelligence writing detection tool.
Just months after AI research organization open AI made chat GPT publicly available November 20 22 K at this point by the numbers 200 million the number of papers reviewed by turn it in AI writing detection feature detections 22 million the number of student papers were at least 20% of the writing was AI content 11%
the percentage of student papers containing at least 20% AI writing 6 million the number of reviewed student papers that contain at least 80% of AI writing 3% the percentage of student papers containing at least 80% AI writing Mrs. K your kids were just doing writing on that state testing.
I don't think they're using AI though were they definitely not we do use AI though I think I think part of this problem right now is that it's so new and I think teachers are afraid to incorporate it into their classrooms but I think because so many students are using it there's this.
Fear for me that it could create cognitive after fee which is kids are just becoming so dependent on AI that they're not thinking so I think teachers just need to start reframing how we're using AI in the classroom to move away from it's just the tool for kids to play drugs and write five paragraph essays and it is a good tool for writing five paragraph essays but yeah I think I think schools need to just start embracing and accepting AI is here.
It's not going to go away and we need to figure out how to incorporate it into our lives we just do it's just it's here. We can't not.
So all of this concern about students using it for writing and the company turned in dot com's AI detection bots that are out there.
Who cares at this point Johnny Lupinati I took a beating last week when we had our guest Tom.
Well, I mean Tom helped us differentiate there's different kinds of AI so he's like we should be really cautious of like having a chat bot you know teach our kids so we are not going to say like hey ask the chat bot to explain how to solve this equation like like there's we don't want to like defer.
Things to chat bots which we know don't have the kind of accuracy and relationship capacity that like we have as teachers so there's a limitations to it but I actually agree with Mrs. K it's here it's a tool it's not just like a fad it's going to be worked into the fabric of most professions as a tool so understanding how to use it it's limitations and it's strengths and then again like Martin Atkins our guest a few weeks ago you know Martin Atkins extraordinaire he said like really this is going to be a great deal.
It's like the advent of the drum machine and technologies in music and he's a you know a drummer and then just a musician and a sound engineer and just all around great guy and educator but you know he had said like it was worried that like it's going to eliminate drummers well no it didn't it just made the profession of drumming you had to be really good at it.
So this is the same thing I think in our classrooms like it doesn't take the place of really great teachers and great teachers are going to figure out how we're teaching it and how we're.
You know preparing people for the world that they're going into as citizens and part of the workforce and it's part of it but it's going to make them really good at the things so kids are going to have to be good at writing and understand what AI brings to that they're going to have to be really good at.
Reading and evaluating hey did what AI helped me generate makes sense is it accurate is it appropriate is it personal and then you know it's going to increase our quality I do believe.
Oh busted pencils.
Mrs. K.
Thank you so much for busting pencils with us tonight.
Thank you for having me.
Scream gratitude.
Gratitude.
Gratitude A.
Scream gratitude.
We Johnny and Tim when we get back, break it down and hey guess what we got a surprise.
Well it's not even 10 seconds.
There it is busted pencils fully let it education talk educated educators talking.
Education Tuesday night Mrs. K.
was in the house teacher from Colorado chopping it up with Tim and Johnny you know got a little bit of talk about what it means to be a teacher during these two weeks of testing.
And then a little bit of review and commentary on the news.
Freedom to read states Johnny Lupinachi and then AI detection I want to go to the AI detection a little bit though and kind of point this out I was I really appreciated Mrs.
K's take of and recognizing that look it's here.
We're going to be needing to incorporate it your explanation going it could be this opportunity to make us better and Martin Akins refer reference to the drumming and how that makes us better.
The one thing though too is what's interesting here is is that every research article that I can say see is is that I got a question turn it in numbers.
Because the last time I checked AI detection software has about at least one of the experts I know saying.
Any time you get an AI hit you should usually try to think that it's usually a false positive because it's ability to detect AI generated material it just can't do it it's not the same as is looking for plagiarism the way turn it in was originally developed and remember even turn it in when it quote identified plagiarism you really if you were going to use that you really have to then build a case and make sure because the last thing you want to do.
The last thing you want to do is accuse somebody falsely of something like that just based on the use of some kind of computer tool when it comes to detecting AI generated material and this is one of the the frightening things to a lot of people about AI is is that the material it's getting to the point where it truly is undetectable.
And so the ability then to say and accuse somebody you may falsely accuse people of of doing things inappropriately and typically the in AI and using it in this sense from this kind of like oh my god we're going to catch you using it.
First of all let's get away from that idea they are going to use it let's engage them on how to use it in ways that are going to make them better writers and stop worrying about catching people doing things because they're already doing it.
Absolutely I give you a little story from class today Tim I have an assignment where it's we're getting towards the end of the semester and these future teachers have been working together to develop lesson plans and sort of you know units for how they are going to really teach social studies in a different way.
And you know one of the things part of their final assignment is I have them writing a little bit of a cover letter like hey write a cover letter that you know introduces your like your take your brand your identity as a social studies teacher.
And the first thing a bunch of them did was ask AI to do it and you know what and it was like and some of them were like closing the windows real quick and like and then I was like hey remember and they're like he doesn't care he doesn't care.
So they had all this like chattering like okay let's not hide it and I said you know go ahead give it a try.
But remember I know who you are as a teacher I've worked with you for a while now it's going to do a pretty generic version of gobbling like buzzwords and teacher and elementary education and it did a great job of like filling the content.
A generic cover letter that was grammatically good and it was in there I said now now take that and make it you because right now it's not you it's got a bunch of buzzwords in there it's words that you wouldn't that don't represent who you are as a teacher.
But for a number of them it got a month stock right they weren't just looking at a blank screen that's great for others it could say like can you see how it's kind of generic like it doesn't really speak to the strengths you have as a teacher.
I know that you really like designing project based activities for your students I know that you really like play as learning I know that you really like universally designed learning and even still AI doesn't know the examples of how you do that in your teaching right.
So it's kind of just giving you a little cookie cutter template that has the words there but doesn't have the personality and the nice thing about it and I'll pump my own tires a little bit Tim the nice thing about it is like they got to use it they needed a little bit of approval that they need to hide it.
And then too we got to see how it brought some value to something that they needed to have their brand of their input their expertise.
Did it speed it up for some of them probably and that's okay right and then also it made me feel good because like the assignment wasn't meaningless it wasn't busy work it sounded like it was about to be busy work create a cover letter for your lessons.
Some of them even put their lesson into the prompt to talk about this this cover letter for these lessons it was still really generic I was like good start great work kind of prompting not clean it up make it you.
You know they were like okay cool so we have this sort of moment that we're talking about is a new technology but it was open to ask questions about you know we worked with it we pointed out shortcomings we informed one another about hey I put the lessons in there and it did a better job.
Then leave an amount I asked it to rewrite that cover letter but include my degree it's my degree is this this and this and so it was like training and teaching it was part of the writing process.
And you know what I saw Tim I saw them doing similar to what they would be doing without AI right and they the end goal was whether they had written it all themselves or whether they had put to work a tool that was at their you know disposal the end product was high quality it was personal to their voice.
They cleaned it up and they did a great job and we got to teach with it in the classroom so even though I hate on AI Tim and I take a set.
Here I am confessing how will you confessing and what you did though too was explain the best quote AI checking is actually the teacher and the knowledge of who their students are and realizing that you know hey they're not going to quote turn it into you with just AI generated.
Because they know that you know them and they can look at an AI generated piece of text and go man this doesn't sound like me Dr. Lupinachi is going to know this isn't me and it's not about quote catching them but it is making sure and then realizing you can use this tool it isn't going to be you I'll know it because I know who you are and I know your passions I know your styles.
So use it to get you started but then put you into it so take this drum machine beat feel it learn it and now then take it and put it to your own beat put it there Johnny well and it also did this thing you know how Martin said it you know the drum machine you know just put us in a position to be better drummers.
I felt the same thing because the students said oh I get it like you're actually reading these which tells me that they do a lot of assignments that nobody is reading and I'm not talking about just my colleagues like I'm not trying to like out anybody.
Just like we do a lot of busy work that doesn't go to anything and and like Tom Mulaney said you know why would you write something for nobody to read.
So if it's meaningless just plug it into AI and have it crap something out and turn it in otherwise put good work into it so we're going to get more into that.
You need to talk about our special event but mark your calendars April 30th we'll have more tomorrow.