What's up, Matt Town? It's your girl, Brandi Grayson, on the black conversion show.
You're listening to 92.7 FM. I love to say MDA is WMDX. I'm so glad to be here this Saturday
morning with you guys. Last week we had a blast. I had in the in the studio last week,
April Kageya and Jala. And we talked a lot about a little bit about black history, a little bit
about black news. And then we got into conversations about relationships, especially male and woman
relationships. And we said that we wanted to bring on some more black men to have conversations. So
this week, I decided to go all the way left. And I invited my baby daddy to be co-hosts with
me today. His name is Eric Upchurch. And we're just, you know, today we're going to talk about
co-parenting, advocacy, our relationship. And someone just like just discussing like how do we go
from hating each other to being in good spirits? And I think like on a good terms with each other
and co-parenting and navigating white systems. And especially the system for our son and the
school that he attends is so, oh my god. So anyway, Eric, tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are
you? What do you do in the world? Yeah. Thanks for having me. Baby mama Brandy Pearl Grayson.
Why don't you say what up Facebook? Say my whole name. Yeah. It's kind of wild being on here because
this is, I feel like this is mad girl. This is a testimony. This is a testimony moment right here.
Testimony. We don't we go. This is this is for testimony Sunday. I'm going to save that. Okay.
But you know, Eric Steven up church the second and mission vision purpose for me is to help
leaders gain the insights and the resources that they need to live into their purpose. And that
takes many forms. And I'm happy to talk about some of them today. Okay, cool. So we're just going
to start and say like, why are you even here? Like, why did I invite you today? Why did you decide to
come? I think that's a good place for us to start. I decided to come because the ancestors said
for the people. But no, you know, as you know, you know, we're talking about the challenges and the
victories with our son in the school system parenting. It ain't easy trying to navigate discipline
and also, you know, our work that we get to do between us. And, you know, we have some wins that
feel good. And that's something that could be a value to the people. And I think so too. I mean,
so because how do we go from like, I just want y'all to know listeners, again, you're listening
into the black conversion show or 92.7 FM. And I just want to like just point out the fact that
Messiah seven, right? And I could not stand my baby daddy. Like I could not stand him.
And didn't want to like be in the same vicinity as him, didn't want to talk to him, didn't want
to be around him. And I know a lot of moms and fathers, we have that challenge, right? We have
the challenge of being in good relationship with each other so that we could be solid parents and,
you know, co parent, our kids in a healthy way. But it took us seven years to get here. So I'm
going to ask you, Eric, how did we even begin to get on this journey of being able to be in the
same space so that we could be solid for our son? Yeah. Well, I think at some point, you just kind
of realized that I was right. And, you know, the rest is history. I think, how did you? What happened
for you? You know, how did you realize? How did you realize you were the problem? You okay.
No, but honestly though, I think that this is it. This is part of it. Being able to laugh about
what's there. Our thoughts aren't real and being able to see them for what they are as triggers,
traumas, patterns, programs, as you said earlier, and being able to enjoy them to a certain extent,
laugh at them and learn from them. But it don't be that easy though. I mean, it's not like we woke
up one day and was like, okay, we're going to be cool because we love our sons because a lot of
people be like, well, you've got to love your kids and put them in front. But that's not how this works
because there's a lot of trauma, a lot of past hurt. There's a lot of baggage. There's a lot of
like blaming, you know, there's a lot of justifying right or wrong that we often put ourselves in as
human beings. So again, like what, I mean, what else got us here? We laughed, but it wasn't
for you personally. What did you have to do? What shifts did you have to make internally?
Speaking of me personally, well, I had to see you. I had to get to a place where I could start to
appreciate the things that I hated about you. Dang. And to see how it worked.
That's what it was. And of course, you can't hate what you don't love. Don't worry about it. I got
haters everywhere. Hey, haters in the building doing something right. We got some sound effects
back there, Nate. But no, really, it was me being able to see that, you know, anytime we have such a
pent up anger towards someone, what we're really seeing is something in ourselves that we want to
change and that bothers us so much. And I had to accept that the things that I was blaming you for,
I was just doing in a different way. It just looked different. And I wanted to change those. Wow,
this is exactly what we were talking about with Messiah. I wanted to change those in me, but my way
toward that is trying to was trying to address them in you. And so it becomes a contention. So when
I started to appreciate you, it was easy. So what you saying is is that you was a hater. You know,
he was Hayden Raider. He's a hater. And then he realized that we see what I'm talking about.
You see what I mean. He was a hater raider. So what he ended up doing is being able to identify
some of his strong emotions and scripts and stories about who I am and how I was showing up.
And was able to identify the things he didn't like that was actually a projection of himself.
Right. Because we often project was internal outward onto other people that the things that we
need to change. That's what I heard you say. Yeah. Yeah. And it's self awareness, which is easier
said than done. Of course, because a lot of people will say they're self aware, but it's very,
very subtle. And the more that I was present with myself and open and less judgmental of myself,
I could see myself more. And you know, this whole thing around presence, you know, again,
you guys are listening to 92.7 FM, the black conversion show out of Madison, Wisconsin. And on our show,
we talk about different topics issues and specifically topics and issues that impact and affect
people known as black because I'm black and we black and we deal with black stuff and being black
as political and systematic all the time. And it's political just being black. So you're listening
to politics and the news. And when you listen to us, you, you hear it. So here we are. So my,
we're talking about today, like how do we, well, let me back up for a second. So on the show,
we often talk about the impact and effects and the residue of white supremacy, like existing in
this and how it affects our relationships with black men, black women, black women and women,
black men and black men. And how oftentimes we are projecting vow thoughts, we're angry at each
other. And sometimes we don't even like each other and we don't even know each other. And that's
all the conditioning of existing in a system that's taught us to hate, taught us not to love each
other. And really at the, the, the foundation of it is that it hasn't, it forbids us to love
ourselves. So how can I love you if I don't love me? If I don't see grace in me, if I don't have
grace for me, compassion for me, empathy for me, sympathy, I don't look in the mirror and be like,
oh, girl, you bad. All right, look in the mirror and say, oh, you're so ugly. You're this,
you're dumb, you're this. Then I can't help but to project that out in all of my relationships.
So a lot of times in the black community, there's a lot of toxicity, right? But not because we're
bad or people are bad, but because the systems that we exist in that really stresses us out and
doesn't provide us or allow the space or opportunity to heal, to do the trauma recovery,
to go into, I would say inward, like you said, becoming present to yourself going inward and
really getting into the space of self discovery of who you're being in the world versus who you
desire to be. That's not something we even talk about. So in order for us to get to where we're at
right now as black parents and black parents of a beautiful black seven year old boy, we had to do
some going in work, right? And in the system of white supremacy, what would you say in this system
that it's taught you about black motherhood and black women? Like what were you trained to think
believe about the opposite sex and black specifically? Well, something that you said that stood out
to me was about having the space to do the work. And you know, the training I think comes from
our not being, not knowing how to do work in the midst of the storm. And I think that that is
the most pervasive thing because no one's going to say, I trained him how to hate women, you know,
but we survive circumstances and we just are like passengers on this domino effect, you know,
what I mean? So people aren't, no one's going to take credit for it, but it's still happening. And
because we don't have the tools or haven't practiced the tools on how to be self-aware be present,
then we kind of fall into line with those domino effects from. Absolutely. So because we exist
in a world where you're not even allowed to be present for yourself at all, right? We go from one
task of doing to another. We have to work eight to ten hours a day, then we go home, we feed the
kids, we get them ready for bed, we barely have time for ourselves. Some people work two jobs,
right? So to actually take hold the space for yourself to get into self-discovery, who you are
versus who you're being in the world and who you desire to be, takes a whole another level of
brokenness, I think. That's interesting. No, like seriously. Yeah, what do you mean by that? I mean,
I feel like most, most times in our life, we have to hit rock bottom before we go up,
right? Like we have to lose things, lose everybody. And sometimes we literally lose our minds,
right? If you pay attention to people who expand in the world, they first have to contract,
right? So you usually contract meaning that you something breaks, like when you build a muscle,
you're breaking the muscle down. And usually you break something occurs. And then you find yourself
trying to dig yourself out and in the process of digging yourself out, just like a butterfly trying
to get out the cocoon, then that's when you find your expansion. I see what you're saying. Yeah,
yeah, it takes challenges for you to grow, which is absolutely true. And I think our challenge
as parents and our journey between me and you and for our son is that without the challenge,
we, I don't think we would have gotten here, you know? Yeah. And I think the school challenge
from Messiah even got us closer, right? Because I think navigating the system of education and
Madison has been the most stressful, um, dehumanizing experience. One of the dehumanizing
experience I've ever had because it just occurs to me, um, as a, as a parent, right? On one end,
I want to, um, I don't know, I just want to protect my son. I want to protect them. I want to
hold space for him. I want to stop racist people from being racist. I want to protect them from
the glares, the, the discrimination, the prejudice. Um, but I can't, right? Especially in this
environment where everything's whitewashed and people don't want to talk about race or cultural
competence. So there's not a lot of training for teachers, especially in private schools. So
it's always the kid that's like the problem, right? And I think that whole, um, that whole
interaction for us has caused us to have to work closer together, I think, and just and get into
discovery of how we've been showing up. Yeah. I think it's all about figuring out what's there for
you. Yeah. Instead of what's happening to us and we've been able to, to navigate some tough
conversation. So yeah, I think more than tough conversations, y'all, these, I'm telling y'all,
like I said to y'all last week, navigating these school systems where my son feels, um,
is in a place where he's not feeling seen, heard, um, and often, um, targeted in a sense, um,
just creates this conflict inside of me. Like, yeah, that's the way to put it. Yeah,
I can't. This is a conflict of stop a sort of me wanted to teach him how to navigate the system
and then one of the smack the taste out of people now. So anyway, you're listening to 92.7 FM,
the black conversion show will be back in a jiff.
All right. My people, you are tuned in to the black conversion show with your girl Brandy Grayson
on 92.7 FM right before our commercial break, I was just saying that, um, I have this conflict inside
of me as I support my son and my son, my seven year old son, if you guys don't know, he's seven
years old. He attends. What school he attends? I always say it wrong. Winger. Winger. I always want to
say Winger. Winger. Say it again. That's all right. Say it again. Winger. Winger. Winger. Winger and raw.
Winger and raw. Winger, raw, raw. I don't know why. I don't know why I can't pronounce it. This is
actually a tutorial on how to say Winger folks. Winger. Okay. Winger and whatever. So anyway,
he goes there, um, to this private school, I think he's like the only, well, what is it?
Four black boys in a whole school, maybe five. There's 135 students maybe in the school,
150, 135 students. Um, now the reason that, you know, we decided to send them there because of
the small, it's like, um, it's, what would you say? The structure is they do a lot of outside play,
they play a lot. Um, it's kind of like a democracy school when they get to decide, um, what
they're going to do for the day. So they get some choices, um, in a smaller classroom with more
teachers. So we thought this would be a good place. And let's just recognize too that they do
have a black principal torsie. So we were really excited about that. Who's a really cool do. So we
thought, like, let's get this to try because we assume torsie's cool. Yeah, he's super cool.
And we just assume that it would not work in public schools because our public schools are
going to help. But anyway, um, when we decided to send him there, I don't think that we were prepared.
Were you prepared? Maybe he was prepared or maybe I wasn't. What I would say to that is that, um,
it is, I mean, very clear to us the achievement gap in schools and how, whether you read, um, white
women teaching black boys written by, uh, anymore, and someone else I'm forgetting the name, forgive me,
but, um, uh, or other literature, the achievement gaps are clear. And we wanted to make sure that our
son had the attention that he needed, but more so the high expectations of the teachers that
is required for academic excellence, which you don't see often in, in schools and medicine
public schools. Yeah. And we kept them, we homeschooled them as most of you guys know, well,
who follow us or whatever homeschooled him for his first three years and he's seven. And he probably
operates, yeah, and did really well. He operates at like a fifth grade level. So we thought, let's
put them in school so he can get some socialization and, you know, learn how to navigate these
systems and people. Um, and it just has not been fun for us. What for you, Eric, we would you say
has been the most challenging and what for you is the solution? Good question, Mr. Grayson.
Wow. Shut up. Um, you know, honestly, the, I want to say that it's the most challenging has
been navigating the dynamic between, um, how to be responsible and holding him accountable.
Yeah, for his actions, for his actions and also recognizing that he's still surviving a system
that is not, doesn't see him fully. Yeah. And it's not for him. It's not for him. And, and so,
you know, and I remember when we were talking about this, you said something about this before
the break, how you want to protect him. And I remember our conversation, you remember that
where I was talking, you were, you were saying you wanted to protect him. And then I was sharing
about or just reminded you briefly about how, where you came from and what made Brandi Grayson,
Brandi Grayson. Yeah. I came from the gutter.
With a straight face, folks, can we settle this Brandi say she from Chicago,
but she don't spend all her life in Madison, Wisconsin. Well, that's true. I have spent a long time
here. However, the foundation of my education and my understanding of the world came from being in
Chicago because we all know and understand like the foundation of children is set between the ages
zero and 10. So we moved after 10. So I was safe. I was safe. I was safe. I had some different
perspectives and, you know, it just, it was, it was rough, but it also taught me how to navigate
and survive. And for our son, it just feels like, you know, like he's, it's different for him. Like
it's not just him surviving the streets or the hood or the stuff that's happening outside in
the neighborhood. It's him surviving inside a building where he should be safe. Right. That's how I
feel. And not knowing how to navigate the feelings or understand the feelings that he's feeling.
Yeah. And when we talk about racism, it's not something that, you know, like when you navigate
the streets, like you learn how to survive in the streets, you learn how to survive gangs,
you know, you just, you know, what to say, you know, where to go. You were not, you know,
where not to go. You know, what time to go outside? What time not to go outside? You have people
in the community and neighborhood you know. So you just, you have even with inside, you know,
what we call projects or whatever, there was community. There was still safety inside buildings.
And I know that might sound weird to people, but I still felt safe. I never felt unsafe. And when
I got to Madison and Whiteville, I was 11 or something or 12 and I didn't understand racism. So
I didn't even know when I was being perpetrated against. And I didn't understand why, how white
people could yell at me as a little kid and nobody did nothing. Right. Like nobody would move.
And they would just, and I'd be looking like, so you're not going to say nothing. But I didn't
have the words and I didn't understand what was occurring around me. And now as a, I would say
someone who's awakening in the process of awakening, I'm watching my son navigate this. And I
swear, I just want to go in all the time. And again, like navigating and holding that space of
holding him accountable. Because first of all, he is the son of me and you. And we are pretty,
something else, you know, and I mean, in a good way, but yeah, we something else, you know,
we see it. And then you, you combine that he's a perfect hybrid of us. So we want to hold him
accountable and we want to hold the school accountable. But also I get tired of teaching.
Because I feel like we're supporting him, navigating with him, trying to navigate our own,
you know, co-parent relationship, trying to hold space with one another, not getting too upset or
too triggered. And then we have to go into these other spaces and hold space for the white people.
I will say though, going to no spaces, I think being on the same page, because we've done a good
job of checking in before and after meetings. Yes. You know, just like, okay, what are we going to do?
So the, and what I like about that is we're not letting their narrative or agenda or perspective
color our direction. We're like, okay, this is what this is where we at with it. This is what he
needs. Okay. And then, and so when we go in there, most of the time, we're on the same page.
Yeah, I would say most of the time we are. So, okay, what is for you the hardest part of navigating
this for Messiah? Yeah, it's, it is finding ways to communicate with him where I'm not becoming
the, I'm not mirroring the thing that he's surviving. And, and what we, not mirroring the thing
that he's surviving, which happens, whether it's in our discipline, and we just want him to
act right because, you know, and what that actually is, is we're dealing with our own trauma.
Because we remember when somebody yelled at our parents for not disciplining us or not
controlling us or whatever. And we remember getting yelled at. So, I think just seeing that part
of me and then stepping out of that way and finding a way to really help him get it, not just
help him practice compliance, which is not the teaching and learning is survival. It's survival.
Just for context, y'all, for a little bit more context, our son was homeschooled and he started
at Winger, Winger, when, whatever. Yeah, exactly. Started there last fall. So, he's only been in school
for like five months. He doesn't have much experience. And immediately, I wouldn't say immediately,
I say a month into going to the school, he started having issues with getting physical with kids.
And then we're like, where is this coming from? Where is this aggression coming from?
Because it's not happening at the place. It's not doing this anywhere else and he's involved in
other social activities. He's everywhere with us all the time. He's hanging out with kids and
a neighborhood at, you know, with his family. But he's being really aggressive. So, we started the
conversation with disciplining him and giving him consequences. Like, you can't be acting like this.
And I think for me, it reminded me of my mom, like, don't be treating the act like this around
these white people. And I'm going to have to whip y'all butt. Do you have these white people calling
me? And I feel like that is where I was living at first. And we, I had to do, and we had to do some
just like self-discovery of like, what really is going on? And how can we advocate and protect our
son for what we then realize? Isn't all about his behavior. There's something else occurring
inside of him that's making him angry. And we're not, he's not able to articulate it because God knows
he's only seven. So we're going to come back and talk more about that in his experience. You're
listening to Black Conversion Show.
All right. Now folks, I am back. Your favorite host is with the most this Brandy Grayson on 92.7 F
film, The Black Conversion Show. Today, my co-host is my baby daddy. His name is Eric Upchurch. The
second, he does a lot of work with, I think you said leadership development, coaching,
meditation, somatic breathing, all that consciousness stuff is what he does. But before he went on
break, we were talking about the dynamics of navigating systems that don't see our humanity,
don't see the humanity of our child supporting our kid and understanding like this is the context
because he's seven. So he doesn't understand. He doesn't understand why he's getting treated
differently or pointed out. He's not understanding a lot of the dynamics and trying to help him develop
that eye and filter and navigate his feelings inside of the systems where something doesn't feel
safe or right from him has been a big challenge. What I would like to ask my baby daddy to do
is share your experience because he took two days out of his week and went to the private school
with our son go to and just stayed there all day witnessing the dynamics of the teachers, the kids
on the playground inside the schools and all kinds of things. Come on, summarize what you've seen,
what you saw. Well, I would say the first thing that I observed was that there were people
who were just going about their days thinking that that's just what they're doing and this is
something that I saw also with a client of mine who's a higher education institution and of course
I'm not going to give their name, but they experience similar dynamics where people are just going
throughout their lives doing their job and they're all well intentioned. They all feel as though
they're doing a service, they're paying attention, they're being caring and what I observed at
the school was that there were good people that were doing the best that they knew how to do,
which I think is one of the biggest challenges of recognizing that the people who we want to change
feel like they're doing good and they're doing their best and they are doing their best to the
best of their knowledge and to the best of their ability and to understand it. That's exactly
what I saw. With that context, it helped me to be more of an observer than somebody who
was trying to whip lash folks in the shape. I could be there calm and just see it for what it
was. What I saw of course was Messiah being a kid, other kids being kids and we have
teachers who, if you ask them, they're looking at so many students and they just so happen to notice
that the black one is the one doing something. Right. And let's just acknowledge that they
can't help but to notice the black boy doing something in the sea of whiteness. You know what I mean?
It's like it's like you being read and standing outside and everybody else purple. You're going to
see you. You're standing out playing this day, which means that anything that he does, they
identify immediately. Whereas the other kids around him doing the same thing, they don't identify.
And he starts to notice it and says it when they do it. He notices it. He feels it.
Yeah. And in some cases, I mean, he didn't really start saying that until we observed it and was
like, oh, this is what I'm saying. But naturally, he's seeing other people, the white kids do things
that, and they're getting away with it. And it appears that to him, well, why can't I do this?
And my different was wrong with me, all of these things. And that creates a kind of frustration
that he was lashing out. And so the lashing out part, we got to be like, hey, listen,
son, there's better ways to handle your emotions. Yeah, you know, this is what we so we're working
with them on that. But then I can't just talk to him. I'm we're also talking to the teacher,
right? You can't just teach him. You got to teach the people around him. And that's the part
that's exhausting. It's freaking exhausting being here. It's exhausting navigating school systems
for my son is exhausting navigating contract negotiation around whiteness. And people like,
oh, my God, I'm trickered. Take over the conversation. Well, I think what makes it exhausting for me,
honestly, what makes it, what makes it exhausting for me, look, you didn't talk to yourself into
exhausting. What makes it exhausting for me is, I should say what makes it less exhausting for me,
because I feel that deeply. And of course, you know, surviving whiteness is a thing. But what has
made it less exhausting for me is waking up to what it was really there in the same way that
allow me to be present with you. Yeah, you're seeing, okay, this is what that really means. And now,
now I can hear that when I'm when I'm I'm not there. I'm not in the place where I'm just like,
I'm waking up and I'm just noticing that these are human beings who don't get it and who don't
have the analysis. It is because our sons in danger. Right. That's how I feel like my sons in
danger. I feel like when I'm sitting at these at these meetings with white folks for the city,
trying to know, negotiate contracts. And I'm telling them like, this is what's going on.
And they're just like, well, we don't know what we can do. It might be black anti-blackness happening.
Yes, this is racist. We actually do. We do. We do feel you on that. But there's nothing we can do.
And that's the same conversation we're having in the school with people where we're constantly saying,
like, Hey, this thing is happening. And it's actually invoking this aggressive response from our
son because remind you he's seven. So when you're when you have a brain that hasn't fully developed
and most adults too, they could be 45 and still haven't developed emotional intelligence, right?
To master their responses, right? Because the first thing he feels is sadness, right? And we were
able to help him identify like, what are you really feeling before you go in, right? I'm sad. And
then that makes me mad. So the next thing I'm going to do is lash out, right? I'm a somebody take a
ball from me. I'm not going to take the just take the ball. I'm going to push them. And I'm
going to push them because they said something to me earlier or I said something to my teacher.
Or they were part of a group that was laughing at me or a group that got away with something.
Talked about my hair or somebody who said something. I tried to tell the teacher and the teacher
ignored it. But soon as a student tells it don't tell the teacher on me. Now I'm in trouble.
They're asking me to take a walk like that. And he's only seven. Yeah. That's that was a hard part
for me is seeing his emotions and trying to figure out what do we do about this, especially in the
midst of people who just don't have the tools and one and realizing that the tools. Now I'll to their
credit, they do listen to us. They try. You know what I'm saying? Like we're like, hey, this is
these are the steps. This is what works here. They know they can not not listen to us. They don't want
them problems at the same time though. They also genuinely care care and want to do better and
lack the tools. And I think that's the same with parents to where we want to do better for our
children. But what do we do when you see them acting up? And how do you navigate that? Yeah.
For us black people, generally speaking, we've learned to beat that. Right. You know what I mean?
You act up. We beat your butt. Like you don't get to be like that. You don't get to act like that.
And that's the piece that me and Eric struggle with. I know I struggle with it. I struggle not
grabbing him up every time I get a call and reminding him like you, you need to listen to the
teachers. You need to keep your hands to yourself. You need to, you need to, you need to. And then
then I have to be reminded to engagement really with Eric about what the dynamics really is.
And if he's experiencing anger and sadness at school in a seven-year-old brain,
what the only thing he has to do is like, or hiss, like he doesn't have, he hasn't developed
everything he needs to develop to be all emotionally intelligent. And that's where we that's where
we create the safe spaces for him to do that. And the safe space is not getting yelled at and
getting threatened with violence because all that teaches him to do a survive us. Yeah.
In addition to surviving the system. Yeah. And let's not just not, don't act like we just came
over this epiphany because we wanted to whoop his butt. I think he got a couple whoop his
actually. He was definitely strongly disciplined in multiple ways. Multiple ways. And I think for
us, it was like, what are we doing? Right. This isn't working. And there's something deeper. Like
there's a root cause here that's causing him to be this way because he's not this way.
Right. Right. And so how do we get a child to process their feelings and present with deep
emotions that adults have trouble accessing? Exactly. And something that I've learned about
is you hear about plate therapy and breath work. And I learned some of this from the folks at
the reconnected. Check them out. But also, you know, it correlated deeply with our insight
strategy and our practice of infinite presence where it's about finding ways to identify
layers of your experience so that you can work with it. Because if you don't know what's
affecting you, you can't do nothing about it. And then you're just a domino fallen forward
into the next moment, into the next trauma, into the next habit. And you're being controlled by
the outside environment, which is part of a lot of our challenges as people known as black. And
just not with our youth and our children, but also with our adults. Like, I mean, I work,
I'm the CEO of Urban Triage, you know, for the people by the people we employ, the people we serve.
And with that, we do trauma recovery. And everybody's coming with their baggage, right? Even when
people are great, so I have staff that are phenomenal. And they don't even realize that they're
phenomenal. So I have to remind them every day that you're more than competent, you're more than
able. And I'm not the kind of person that gently reminds people of anything. So if you know my
personality, my way of reminding you is throwing your at in the pool. Okay. I'm just going to
throw you in the pool. And what you're going to do is you're going to swim. And most of my state
have swim and they're like, oh my god. I can swim. I'm actually really dope. But when I'm trying
to do is be try to be a little soft version of Brandy. It works some days, some days I'm not
well, what you're doing is you're creating you're giving them more evidence to reconfirm the
positive aspects of themselves. Yeah. And a lot of times what we see in our day to day is negative
confirmations of how bad we are, how you know, we're not good enough. And for children, they get
that too. Yeah. And when they come home to us, what are they being reminded of? What are we
confirming? Because they go to school when they're reminded that they're this, they're that.
They're not good enough. Right. They're ignored. When they have a question, their hands are
ignored. But as soon as they put their hands on someone else or get too close because that's
what seven-year-olds do. They just do too much. Have you ever been in a classroom with a seven-year-old
girl? They all over the place. My kids be yelling, doing all kind of stuff. But when they're the ones
that's already always targeted versus targeting a whole class, they say, hey, all y'all need to chill
out. Right. So how do we, how do we equip them and what do we do to help them process their
feelings? And it's the same thing with adults is finding ways to get present. And you can't do that
when you're sympathetic nervous system, you're jacked up because we carry low grade,
level of stress. I call it the automatic nervous system. The automatic nervous system is where?
The automatic. Where the autonomic dealing with survival dealing with your digestion,
your relaxation, parasympathetic, your fight or flight. Autonomic is your freeze and or fawn,
trying to appease to someone. And when we're tied up navigating stress and we're still surviving,
we're still surviving the beef. We're still surviving the work issue. We're still surviving the
school issue, even intimate issues, intimate issues, all of that. So those are coming into
our our attempt to parent. Yeah. And now we're surviving through our kids because we're pent up,
so we can't take what they come to what they're coming to. You know, we can't take what they're
going through. Yeah. And it's just, oh, we'll get it, get it together. Let me, we'll feel, but
yeah, a big part of helping them navigate is getting out of getting out of our own way. And seeing
what's in our way and part of that is, you know, relaxed breathing, slow, deep breathing. And when
you spend time first acknowledging a challenging moment, and then you acknowledge what you really
want that moment to be, and then you spend time breathing deeply and just being aware of yourself,
you're telling your parasympathetic nervous, you're saying, hey, it's okay. I got you. I'm
able to chill. I'm safe because of the slow breath. And now you're more aware of what's happening,
what's your experiences. And that can teach you and help you gain insights that move you out of
the way. So when you see your child act up, yeah, you're correcting them, not from the standpoint of,
I don't want these people to see me this or what they're saying or what my baby mama think is
am I going to hear her mouth again? Because you know, and do so, so rather than that, we're able
to be present. And then how do we be present with the children? The children can do this breath. And
I did this with Messiah. And when he woke up, when he got up after this breath, he, I saw him playing
differently. I saw him more attentive and more content and more present. But also, we don't have
to be calm to be present parents. And the last part I'll say is that we let them play and we work
within the play to help them tell a story that processes their feelings. Yeah, like, like,
most child therapists, right? Like, so when you take your child to a therapist, when they experience
trauma or any, you know, distressing situation, then they will reenact those situations in play,
whether it's with dials or cars or trucks, and they identify like, who's this person? Who's that
person? They actually act out how it's occurring to them, right? And drawing to yeah, and drawing
how it affected them. So our, our work with Messiah is really now based in and we've tried a lot.
So now we in this phase of trying breathing and playing to help him process his day. Like,
what happened today? What did your teachers say? What did your principals say? And what we've
also discovered in that play is what, what have you discovered here? So, so with the play, what
we're actually doing is we're having an intimate, deep conversation with our children and we're
getting a picture of their experience. Well, I'm talking to the community now.
I wanted to save it for later folks, but this just then, but no, we're having a deep conversation
about their experience and when they play, they're recreating their experience and that's when we
get to learn versus, y'all be quiet or don't do that or their play scares you in a way because it
triggers you. Yeah. So you don't know what to do. So when we play, recognize it as a conversation,
and the more we can get them to create in that play, the more we get to learn about their experience.
So we did this and we played out a day in school and what we learned, what I learned was that
we got to work in the dynamics, the things we would coach him to do. We got to practice that
and play that. And because it's a safe environment, just like that slow deep breath, it hit
home and he's had better days. Yeah, when we return, we're going to talk more about play and how
to support our kids and navigating these systems and to support our cellos and navigating these
systems with our kids. You're listening to 92.7 FM, the Black Conversion Show. We'll be back in a minute.
All right, we are back with 92.7 FM, the Black Conversion Show. And yeah, that's my baby daddy
talking in background like he didn't know that we were about to go on. Like you know, you
supposed to stop talking and do I do the introduction? Okay. That's why I'm here, folks.
You see how you see how to produce a try to ease us in with some soft music to help us,
you know, calm down as we get ready to. I'm trying to be going to the background, messing
up the transition. So anyway, before break, we were talking about what were we talking about?
You were actually talking we were talking about how to navigate
getting out of your own way so that we can help our kids process what they need.
Absolutely. And that is one of the things we teach at Urban Triage through our transformative
education is that the system of white supremacy, even though that is exhausting, like I said,
it is exhausting mentally, physically and all of it. And I think it's even more exhausting for
me because of the work that I do, right? So I'm always inside the system moving, navigating,
smiling, you know, polytricking, not taking things personally, trying to navigate while
getting the contract signed, getting the money we need, even though I want to be like, you
is that I say, okay, sure, what else can we do? Okay, we'll take that into consideration.
All right, well, maybe we can consider this. So you're surviving too. Yeah. That's what it feels
like most of the time. Because you know, like within the context of white supremacy, like,
depending on the dynamics and when someone holds the bag, right? There's a whole additional
level of like, okay, what I want to tell you, I can't really say right now, right? I would like
to tell you that, like you said, you don't have the tools. Like, I get you as your best attempt right
now. But you don't have the tools that you're not understanding. And really what I want you to do
is you never mind. But there's a difference between you and them and that at least from your
perspective. And that's that you want to gain more tools for yourself. And there's no reason why
any moment should be any different. And for some, you know, having coming up against the
barrier means they're going to threaten our funding. They're going to people are going to get hurt.
And that's a real challenge. Like money goes away. People get hurt. If people complain too much,
we have more issues that we need to deal with. And you're trying to get somewhere. Yep. And also
just like with our son, yeah, navigating that he is challenged. And he's upset. It could mean
for me. I'm not a good parent, right? I'm a failure as a father. Great parent. Or it can mean
that I have another opportunity to gain the skills and to learn the lessons that I need to navigate
this better. It's practice work. It's all practice work. Life is about practicing, but it doesn't
make it easier. And I want I want to choose to practice an environment that is more appreciative
of black people. I want to practice an environment where I could go to a dentist and they're black.
My school got teachers that are black and specifically black male teachers. I want my son to be
around black male teachers. I want him to go to school. Well, where's the urban triage black
dentist program? This is the problem. This is the problem. Everybody wants us to do everything.
Okay. We got to do you work, housing work, justice work, environmental justice work,
saving everybody. I ever came for everybody and everybody calls me. Urban league tax accountants.
Motorcycle repair. Everything, right? But we ain't got no, don't mind, I want to donate. Okay,
that brings me to this. We do have, well, I'm a Saturday. Never mind. I can't even talk about,
I should've talked about it last week. So never mind. Back to you, Eric.
My thanks, Ms. Grayson. You know, so we were talking about the tools. And I cannot stress
enough how important this is and really hear me. Yeah. We are doing the best that we can as parents.
Yeah. You are doing the best you can as a black woman, lead an organization, and a mother. Yeah.
And I'm doing the best as a, I can as a father. And that is never not the case for anybody.
Right. Everybody's doing the best they can, even when they're racist, even when they're anti-black,
even when they're in the space with your kids. And with you, where you know, they're not getting it,
they're doing their best. Well, even aside from the people that we're surviving,
we, we struggle to be present with our kids because we're still tying knots and negotiating our
own guilt, our own trauma, our own shame around our failures. And that really does get in the way.
And when we can just accept that that's there. And it's not something to be shameful of. It's
something to welcome as an opportunity to grow. Then we get a chance to step into better choices
and opportunities. Yeah. But we're all human. So we're all going to feel messed up, right? You're
going to feel messed up about your life choices, relationship choices, the job that did this,
or the person that did this, your mama, your daddy. Those are all natural human responses to life.
You know, so that I think the whole thing around awareness and presence is not to eliminate those
thoughts, but to be with them, to walk through the darkness, to be in the pain body, to feel what
it feels like in your chest and your neck and your body. What is this really telling me, right?
And allow that experience, that experience of witnessing yourself expand you, you know,
and I think that's where they expansion come. And to know, like just to be expanded in present,
doesn't mean that you're walking around here, Namastein, all in love, right? Because I could,
I could cuss you out and, and slap you with a real place, right? You know, and not from a
place. And grounding because I think we have that, that thing misunderstood that somehow when you're
walking in the space of a wake, wake in this or awareness that you're out here loving and,
oh, I smoke weed every day and I'm just happy. That's not what occurs. Sometimes the best
presence you could do is to chop somebody at their knees and tell them to stop playing with you,
right? In the nicest way. Now I still, and the danger is part of that though, is that a lot of
people say, well, yeah, that's what you can do. I don't have to be Namastein all the time,
but they're still communicating out of layers of their own issues and traumas and they're not
really seeing the being with the behavior or being with the emotions. But layers is the key,
right? So through your practice work, you continue to pull back the layers and perfection is never
required. The universe doesn't require perfection. Flowers are birthed every day that look weird
and they end up beautiful. Perfectly imperfect. You know, so that's a reminder for you as a parent
and for your youth and your children. Like they don't need to be perfect. They don't need to be
perfect in these white systems. You don't need to be perfect when you show up. If you don't have the
words to express your feelings or communicate with your thinking or needing for your children,
don't feel like you can't because I think that's also what stops is like, I don't know what
to say. I don't know how to say it. I don't want to cuss nobody out. If that's all you got is the cuss
out, then let them have it because it's better than keep it in and having it eat up at you because
it's all energy and emotion is energy and motion and you have to release it and you have to learn
how to release it in constructive way. So I'm not saying go out there and cuss everybody out,
but I'm also saying don't judge yourself and be gentle with yourself as you practice the work
of expansion. And the judgment comes from the meaning and a lot of times what we think something
means it actually doesn't mean that. It can mean so many other things. So that behavior can mean
that, you know, we're a bad parent, but it can also mean that we're learning. It can also mean
that it just was one of them days and that's okay. You know what I mean? Or it can mean all of
these other things. So we get an opportunity to be with those layers and also help our children
be with those layers too. Yeah. And then so it's so it's something because it's the same thing we
teach through it to our staff. And our, you know, my staff, I have to tell them all the time it's not
personal as personnel because when you do the trauma work with people when they're held accountable
or, you know, they feel like you're being unfair. There's always this sense of like, man,
you did that for them or you didn't do that for them or you did this for me or you didn't do
whatever it is. People take things very personal. So even if you show up in a way where you feel like
you're expressing yourself and you're saying what you need and what you want and people feelings
are hurt, you have to be okay with that too. Now do you, you might have to come back and clean up
some stuff if you, you know, sometimes our words aren't always kind. So you have to also practice
awareness and accountability and your outcome and your outcome. What's your objective? You know,
so again, you're listening to the black conversion show on 92.7 FM Saturday morning,
join me next Saturday again for that ish ish on black community. Peace, love and hair grease.