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Transcript

Fair Maps And Something We Should All Be Able to Agree Upon (Hour 1)

As Goes Wisconsin · Mon Nov 20, 2023

From the Civic Media Radio Network, moving Wisconsin forward one jelk at a time.

This is As Goes Wisconsin with Kristen Bride.

Now, filling in for the new mom, here's Jane Mattenin.

Good morning, welcome to As Goes Wisconsin.

Thank you so much for joining us on this blustery November day.

Greg Bach is with me in studio.

Calvin's on the board and our friend and colleague, Todd Alba, joining us on the stream.

Good morning, Todd, how are you?

Jane, Greg, Kelvin, I am outstanding.

It is Thanksgiving week and I get to start it off with you find people right here.

It could be better.

That's so nice of you.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Remember, you can always listen to Todd's show right after As Goes Wisconsin.

He kicks off at noon until two o'clock.

A fine, fine program, I must say.

And I do listen to.

You're too kind.

Oh, we appreciate it.

I listen to you guys when I can.

I listened a little bit earlier.

I started my day in beautiful Richland Center, home of WRCE and WRCO.

I was helping mom get ready for Thanksgiving later on.

And so I got a little bit of a late start.

So I snuck in the studios here at Madison under the wire, but I made it.

So I listened to Earl on the way in this morning.

Earl's got a big giveaway today.

He's doing a turkey giveaway.

That's right.

And from noon to three o'clock and they're expecting at least 200 people, I think.

Fantastic.

It's really a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful event.

An event that was not so wonderful.

We're going to start with.

And I saw this over the weekend and I had to rub my eyes for a minute to actually acknowledge

that this is reality.

So we had neo-Nazis marching in Madison on Saturday.

There were about 20 of them wearing shirts labeled blood tribe, a growing neo-Nazi movement

that believes in white supremacy, according to the Anti-Defamation League.

Madison police reportedly monitoring the situation the department said in a Facebook post,

no weapons have been displayed and there were many calls to 911 to report the group.

Again, it wasn't a large group, but it, it, I find this immensely disturbing.

Let me just start off by saying when I first saw this, the, the video and the photos,

I got very excited because I thought that a production of the producers had come to town

in the Overture Center and I was, I thought that Mel Brooks musical is in town.

This is fantastic.

But no, it turned out it was 15 or so schmucks from, from who knows where.

And it's just, it's just absolutely disgusting.

But you know, that's what they are, right?

There's schmucks.

They're, they're disgusting human beings and, you know, anybody who could find any sort

of semblance to justify Nazism, you know, just, I mean, I don't have any time for you.

And, and I think it's more than disturbing, but what I was really heartened by was the

number of people particularly in Madison and our elected officials in Madison and our

governor and other people that called this out immediately and denounced it and repudiated

it and said, you know what, there's just no room for any of that, not only in the city

of Madison, but in the state of Wisconsin.

And this was, this was bipartisan condemnation from what I understand.

It was, and I want to be very, very, very careful.

Well, I'll simply say is the speed with which Democrats and Democratic elected officials

repudiated this was within minutes, if not within an hour or so.

I haven't, because I was driving stuff this morning, I want to be fair.

I haven't checked all of the Republican leadership socials.

Right.

And as of last night when I went to bed at 1130, very few had done the same.

And I just find that disappointing.

And I don't want, I don't want to insinuate that there is support for that.

I'll just simply say I'm disappointed in the lack of speed and repudiation of it.

Well, we live in a world of now there are bad people on both sides as a credible argument

to make for things.

And first of all, I think, Todd, nothing I think would make a neo-Nazi angrier than

being called a schmuck, just the most Yiddish insult there is, give it to him.

But I wanted to talk about this really quick.

And I spoke with Jane about this before the show today.

And I'm not going to name names.

I'm just going to give the context of what was said.

And it was said something in the effect of look at this group of people,

a group of neo-Nazis carrying flags with the swastika on it.

Look at them.

There are barely any of them.

It's not that big of a deal.

But yet when people are marching in support of things like Palestine and the Palestinian

people who are being killed and things of that nature, why aren't we causing a big

ruckus?

Why aren't we calling them out for being supporters of terrorists and things like

that?

I think of myself, one, nice, good, that is a solid what aboutism, solid, good job.

That's your lane.

But also, if you say something like, oh, there's just a few of them.

Well, aren't, are you saying that to me and to all of us?

It's not that big of a deal.

It's only a few of them.

So who cares?

No, these are men in like uniforms carrying flags with a agenda and a message.

And they've been emboldened.

And also to the, some of the Republican leaders who have quote unquote denounced them.

If you are a mega January six defender, Donald Trump supporter, you are a part of this problem.

And as much as you've allowed them to have a voice where they get to do this before this,

before 2016, we didn't see people in like this marching down the streets of Madison or really

anywhere.

But because we live in a changing chapter, Charlottesville, yep, because we live in a

world we live in where some people are good and some people are bad and both sides have

problems.

Now they get to do this.

And so your words of condemnation, if you are a supporter of the, the industry that is

the mega universe, your words are nothing to me.

They mean nothing because you are part of the problem.

844-967-2789, 844-967-2789.

We're talking about the group of neo-Nazis marching through Madison on Saturday,

carrying flags with swastikas, shouting anti-Semitic phrases.

I guess what always stands out to me when this happens is what cowards they are.

Except for two of them, from what I understand, except for two of these marchers, everybody

else has masks on because they're so brave.

And if you believe in this message and you believe that stand by it then, man, come on,

let me see your, show your faces.

If, if you are embracing this kind of ideology, you know, a bunch of chickens.

Yeah, schmucks.

And to, to what, to what you were saying, Todd, as far as like the slow, this, the slow

response from some leaders, you know, we're in a time right now where there's a lot of

politicians throwing down there.

We got to protect Israel by all measure, by all standards, by all means.

That's it.

There are, there are the number one, like, we have to protect them.

That's some people's stance.

If there are neo-Nazis screaming anti-Semitic statements on the streets of the capital of

us, of a state, that's pretty anti-Semitic.

That's pretty against Israel.

Where is your indignation and your, and, and your words?

Where are you?

So it's just, it's.

Should it be, it shouldn't be difficult to condemn neo-Nazis.

No.

It should not be no.

It's not.

It's very easy to do.

Look at the mirror.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, watch, watch Indiana Jones.

Nazis.

I hate Nazis.

They're boom.

It's not, it's not, it's not difficult.

Yeah.

I will say just to pick up on what Greg, what, what you said.

And I, again, I want to walk very gingerly here.

I want to be clear.

I think that, I think the all free speech, you know, free speech is free speech, right?

And even free speech that we find repugnant, like what happened over the weekend.

I will say in terms of, you know, I, I, I'm not Jewish or the Jewish faith.

I have several friends that, that, that are.

And I will say, and I think our colleague, uh, Onius has spoken about this.

She was in, she was in DC last week.

You know, there is a rise of anti-Semitism in this country.

And around the world.

You can't deny that.

And around, and around, and around the world.

And I think that some, I want to emphasize the word some, not all, some who have been,

you know, part of these, uh, pro-Palestinian, but it goes beyond that to almost embracing

Hamas has made it very the, the feeling, at least here in Madison on campus amongst Jewish

people, Jewish students has been fearful, fearful.

And, and I think that when you have the lack of distinction between, look, I think people

have every right to have a protest of free Palestine and pro-Palestine.

Uh, and I've condemned in our show any loss of innocent life.

I happen to be, I happen to be one that believes that Israel has a right to defend itself.

I also think there should be pauses for humanitarian aid.

Um, and I think there should be, you know, uh, as minimal or no loss of civilian life

as possible.

But I think that some of, some of this rise where people get confused between pro-Palestine

and pro-Hamas has given a greater, uh, more oxygen to this, this feeling of anti-Semitism.

I'm not saying that those protests cause the Nazi protests.

I'm not saying that.

I simply say that those of us who have Jewish friends, those of us who have people in our

lives, of the Jewish faith, I think hopefully as we enter Hanukkah here in a couple of weeks

that we're particularly sensitive to what that segment of our world and our society is going

through.

I don't, I don't disagree with that.

And I have a lot.

I mean, my, I've great many friends who are of the Jewish faith, whether it's religious

or cultural.

And I can, I can't think of any of them off the top of my head who are, um, 100% for the

Israeli, they, they, they love Israel.

They do not like the Israeli government.

And, and I think there's been this message that's been pushed by certain leaders of,

you know, just saying, Oh, this person is, is, is, uh, defending Palestine.

They're pro-Hamas.

I think the problem is there's a lot of misinformation now too.

And people who are pro-Palestine are getting painted as pro-Hamas.

So it's, it's a real, as you said, it's a really hard line to walk.

But at the end of the day, you know, for me personally, we talked about this last week,

I just said, I'm all for innocent people not being killed.

I'm all for people being safe.

And that's really weird that that's a statement that can get me in trouble.

People will be like, well, you're anti this, you're pro this.

Like, no, I'm just, I just don't want people killed.

And I want people to be safe.

And I want people to have a home freedom.

Like we're,

What do you think?

And what do you think in the world today, the one thing we should all be able to rally

around is our hatred for Nazis.

You know, I mean, that's a pretty easy one.

I would, I used to think so.

I, you know, it certainly used to be, but again, I think after Charlottesville

and the whole very fine people on both sides has led us to this point now

where we have neo-Nazis marching around downtown Madison.

844-967-2789.

We will take your calls when we get back.

Stay with us.

You're listening to As Goes Wisconsin on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Brothers, sisters, we don't need that fascist group night!

Thanks for joining us on the stream. If you are watching the live stream on Facebook, YouTube, or Twitter, you can always leave a message or a comment.

Or you can call or text at 844-967-2789. We're talking about about 20 neo-Nazis marching around Madison on Saturday, carrying swastika flags, yelling anti-Semitic tropes.

And I just don't understand how we can't just all automatically condemn this behavior.

It's bad and there are a bunch of cowards. There are a bunch of cowards.

If you believe in this ideology so much, then at least be brave enough to show your face and show who you are.

844-967-2789. Karina from Milwaukee is on the line. Good morning Karina, thank you for holding.

Good morning ladies and gentlemen. You know, I'm coming from, I grew up in Soviet Union.

And even though the propaganda that there is no racism, and it's really not, but that you still hate it.

And until 1995, I still received yellow stars, even though I have to.

And that's why I ran away from the country who actually put the stamp in me.

I'm more than that my mother is a Jewish, okay?

And according to the Nazis, I mean, all my family went to World War II and we lost a lot of people.

And it's still a painful reminder.

But as of to say in America today, you are numb not inbred.

Just inbred.

Sorry.

That's it. You don't have enough marbles to ding in your brain to understand that there is an echo over history where you don't want to go.

Thank you so much.

I think we should just end the show right there.

I'm glad you got that off your chest Karina.

No, thank you so much for calling.

I really appreciate it.

Wait, numb not what?

Inbred numb nuts?

Yeah, numb not inbreds without the marbles.

Life drop.

Yeah, right.

Absolutely.

A texture from the 715 asked, did this happen anywhere else in the country?

Not that I'm aware of.

It seems like Madison was the only place that was reported at least.

But this has happened in other cities.

Certainly with this same group, this blood tribe.

Blood tribe.

Good God.

I want to make a quick point if I can.

Of course.

Anna Kelly who is one of the communication people for the National Republican Party tweeted out yesterday after this happened.

She said, quote, just a few blocks where I used to live in the quote unquote inclusive city of Madison.

Absolutely disgusting.

Somehow insinuating that Madison tolerates this or this is part of inclusivity.

And Josh Clemens who I follow is a local Madison political guy here in Madison.

I want to give him credit for this because I thought he nailed it.

He said quote, implying that Madison supports this is in any way repugnant.

All of Madison Twitter is horrified by this.

And more importantly, this disgusting display was not local.

When it ended, they loaded it into a U-Haul and drove away into darkness.

Yeah.

And I thought that was a really important point because to my earlier point,

some of the first people that repudiated this was the Chancellor Jennifer Mnuchin of UW Madison.

Mayor Satya Kanwe from Madison.

Yeah.

Mark Pocain who represents Madison.

Tammy Baldwin, U.S. Senator.

All of these people, Madisonians repute.

Democrats, by the way, while Mnuchin is independent.

But all these people immediately repudiated this.

And I guess the U-Haul van had Kentucky license plates,

but we all know that doesn't necessarily mean they were from there.

But clearly these people were not from the Madison area.

And I'm not even sure they were from Wisconsin.

They just picked Madison because I suppose they knew they would get a lot of play.

So the tweet that she wrote, quote, unquote, inclusive, is she up?

I'm confused.

Is she upset that they were there or she was slamming Madison?

Yeah, she appears as, again, this is Anna Kelly, the GOP comms person,

national GOP comms person.

She seemed to be saying to insinuate that because Madison always talks about inclusivity.

Diversity, equity, inclusion.

That somehow Madison then wants to include Nazis as part of inclusivity.

That's the insinuation there.

That is so absurd.

Good heavens.

As you said, Todd, and even the Madison police said, they have free speech.

Yes.

They can do this.

And that means, therefore, they can do this in any city in the country.

Absolutely.

And they have the free speech.

They have the ability.

And that's something we have to understand and accept.

We don't have to like it.

But if we didn't like it, then what's the next thing to be told?

You can't march.

But that doesn't mean that kind of behavior doesn't come with consequences,

eventually, either.

And that's why these big, brave men are covering their faces,

because they want to avoid consequences, possibly from their employers or friends

or coworkers.

And again, if you believe so strongly in this ideology, then let's see your face,

my dude.

Come on.

Own it.

Yeah.

And complete cowards.

Well, they are.

And I'm not inbreds with no marbles.

If I ever run into any of them, I'm using Karina's line.

That will go down in history.

Huge mocks are nothing but numb, not inbreds who have no marbles.

That's the whole thing right there.

I like it.

Well, we could make t-shirts.

Some more Asgore's Wisconsin merch.

Fantastic.

Yeah, that's not a bad idea.

All right, coming up, we're going to spend just a little time on this exchange

between Liz Cheney and Republican Senator from Utah, Mike Lee,

on Twitter over the weekend about January 6th and January 6th footage.

And then we're going to move on to the Wisconsin Supreme Court.

They're going to start hearing the redistricting arguments.

And, Todd, this is something that we've talked about before,

and it's all about contiguous districts and lines touching

and whether or not that should, you know, it's...

I find it all...

Lines touching, you say.

Lines touching.

It's the touching of the lines and the islands in the stream.

And then finally, and I know Earl spent a lot of time on this,

but I do want to acknowledge the passing of Rosalind Carter

yesterday at the age of 96.

What an incredible public servant, both of them.

Oh, my gosh, yes.

All of the years they spent with Habitat for Humanity,

I mean, Jimmy was doing that well into his 80s.

He was doing it.

There are pictures of him doing it from a couple of years ago.

And he's in his 90s.

He's 99.

And he is...

I...

When he...

When he goes, I dare people to say things.

I dare them.

But you know they will.

I know they will.

This is the world we live in, but still...

Serious.

Okay.

All right.

Are you okay?

I'm not okay.

I'm never okay, Jane.

I'm just not okay baked into a shell of okay looking.

All righty then.

But it comes back to Mr. Rogers, right?

His line about, you know, when bad things happen,

or I like to say when there's bad people around,

look for the helpers.

Yeah.

And I think that that's still one of the big legacies

of Rosalind Carter, whether it's mental health or other things.

I mean, she looked...

She was a helper.

She was...

She was the embodiment of a humane helper.

Absolutely.

Stay with us.

You're listening to Asgo's Wisconsin

across the Civic Media Radio Network.

Good morning.

Welcome to Asgo's Wisconsin.

Jane McNair in Fort Kristen Bride.

Greg Bach is with me in studio.

Calvin's on the board.

Todd Alba joining us on the stream.

And you can always check in if you want to call

and or text at 844-967-2789-844-96.

Party.

Thank you, Greg Bach.

Coming up at 1106, Alan Borsig,

a longtime education reporter for the Journal Sentinel,

is going to be joining us.

There is a new bipartisan bill working its way

through the capital that will make it easier

for elementary school teachers to get licensed

without passing this test on reading.

So he's going to explain that

in a little bit more detail.

So stick around for that Alan Borsig coming up at 1106.

Right now, though,

Liz Cheney and Republican Senator Mike Lee of Utah

got into a little war on Twitter over the weekend.

Speaker...

House Speaker Mike Johnson has released more

video footage of the January 6th attack on the Capitol.

And Senator Mike Lee saw one still

where he claimed that this person, Kevin Lyons,

was flashing a badge while he was in the Capitol,

indicating that he was actually law enforcement

because there are those who believe that January 6th

was what it was, the false flag or it was,

it was, yes, all members of the FBI.

The corrupt FBI.

The corrupt FBI in the deep states.

And Tifa.

Yeah.

Black Lives Matter.

Some guy used to be in a band with.

It's just remarkable to me the effort to try

and rewrite this history because I watched January 6th live.

And I saw it happening live.

Me too.

And maybe there were some areas initially where there were

just people wandering around in the hallways.

That's not how it ended up.

And 140 Capitol police officers were hurt.

There were at least several deaths.

It, it.

On both sides of the, of that, of that struggle.

Yes.

And this effort to portray this either as either it was a

peaceful protest and it was just a normal tourist visit.

Or it was an operation by the FBI and then Tifa,

which one, which one is it?

It's, it should be one or the other.

I mean, and I, and I, and I also want to point out that more

than 1000 people have been charged with federal crimes

related to the attack on the Capitol.

Over 600 of them pleaded guilty or have been convicted

and about 600 have been sentenced.

So if there were FBI agents among those people who have been

convicted, we would have heard about it.

The deep state, does it's good.

Does it, does it's best to cover up the facts, Jane?

It's so 1984.

Well, I mean, don't, don't believe what you saw with your

own eyes.

Believe me instead.

But in 1984, they were actually lying to the people.

Now this is like the truth.

And people are like, well, this isn't true.

Yes, it is.

And this goes back to what we're talking about, about Madison.

We live in a time and place where people can storm the Capitol,

commit several crimes and elected officials can sit there and go,

I'm not sure.

That didn't happen.

Yeah.

It didn't happen like that.

Shouldn't, but again.

I'm not the brightest bulb of this.

I just go back to, it was either a peaceful tourist visit

or it was an attack by undercover FBI agents that pick one.

Pick one reality because it can't be both.

I'm not the brightest bulb of the string, as you guys know,

but, but I do know a couple of things.

And having worked for a member of Congress and spent quite a bit

of time on almost over five years on the hill, as they say.

And I think part of this, as well as the people's house, the

people are entitled to be there.

Only if you go through the proper procedures.

The people don't unlike Wisconsin.

Like if you come to Wisconsin or if you live in Wisconsin,

you go to Madison and go to the Capitol.

And it's one of the beautiful things in my opinion about our

Capitol is it is open to the public.

Anybody can walk off the street on the ground floor, go in,

look up at the rotunda, walk around the halls, go directly to

your members of the legislature and visit them.

I think that's a beautiful thing.

But for reasons that I think hopefully we can all understand,

it is not that open in Washington, D.C.

And in order to visit the United States Capitol,

you have to go through a big long, they built a brand new

underground visitor center.

You have to get in line.

You have to get tickets.

You have to go through.

There's a guided tour in order to go through the rotunda.

You cannot just walk into the United States Capitol.

There are fences.

There are Capitol police officers.

There is security.

And so this whole narrative that somehow people, well,

that they were fine.

There is walking around the fact that if you were in there

without a guided tour or without permission from your

member of Congress and invite and have an appointment,

you're already in violation of being in the building.

So, so to your point, Jane, you're right.

There is no way that anybody who watched this with a brain

understands this was an insurrection.

There was a bipartisan January 6th committee,

Stan Lee's Chady and a McKinsey.

You're neither water snowflakes or liberals, very long

time conservative Republicans sat on that committee jullie

unanimous vote hundreds of thousands, I don't wanna say

hundreds of thousands, but thousands or tens of thousands

of hours of footage was reviewed in his beyond a

shadow of a doubt.

To your point, Jane, it was proven in court.

This was an insurrection.

If you can't agree on that.

I can't help you.

And I think part of the reason why they, it's not that

they can't agree on it.

It's the fact that if these individuals who are doing

the hemming and hawing going, they don't move.

It's because they have people in their district that the

moment they hear an elected official going, yeah, it was

an insurrection and they should be thrown in prison,

they're gonna be in quote unquote trouble from some

group, some lobbying firm, some PAC who's gonna run money

against them saying, so and so doesn't believe in freedom

and the people's house.

You know, and so it does them more good to play like,

you know, scratching the chin going, I think we need

more information than just saying what it is.

These are people who should be in jail.

But I think that makes it very dangerous for themselves

when you are, if you're gonna start embracing all these

alternate realities, that can come back to bite you.

Oh, absolutely.

Yes, I agree with that.

I think it's gonna come back to bite them in the way that

they're not gonna get reelected because also as we saw

with people like Mike McCarthy or Kevin McCarthy,

not Mike McCarthy, I'm thinking football right now,

Kevin McCarthy, they're gonna have to start pleasing

and to another point, Rob and Vosh, you have to start

now pleasing two types of people in your own party.

The people who are just like the regular GOP members

who vote for you or business or whatever.

And then this other group who, no matter what you do,

you're never good enough unless you agree exactly with them

because the other side of the people like,

I didn't like Trump, but I voted for him

because I'm a Republican.

But these people are like, he was sent by God.

And if you don't agree with that,

we will end your political career.

Well, unfortunately, I think a lot of them are gonna

have to grow spines.

I mean, you can't go through your entire

political career as a mollusk.

I just, you know, grow some backbone and acknowledged,

at least acknowledge reality people.

We all watched it.

We all saw what happened on January 6th.

I remember being so horrified and thinking,

where is the help?

Where is the help?

Where is the National Guard?

Where is, you know, it was mortifying.

It was like watching a dystopian movie about the few,

you know, an America down the road.

Yeah, yeah.

Todd?

For what things we know,

from the testimony from the January 6th committee,

Jane Geer Point, we now know that a lot of that

was intentional inaction on the part,

on the Trump administration to send in help,

number one, whether there was collusion within

the Trump administration, parts of it,

keyword parts of it.

I think that's also been pretty much proven by this point.

But, but I think this goes in a 2024 observation

that I would have is that instead of Republicans

talking about what they want to offer on the table

for the future for America.

Here's five things.

Whether you agreed or disagreed with Newt Gingrich

in 1994 or not, at least the guy had a plan that he shared

and said, here's the contract with America.

Here's the things that we are going to do for you if elected.

The current iteration of the MAGA Republican Party

only wants to look back.

Yes.

Only wants to rehash things and keep going back

to how they view the injustice.

And they're tapping into the fear of everyday Americans

who are, might be, you know, disgruntled because food prices

the grocery store is still too high.

The positivity of Biden.

Nomics hasn't reached their pocketbook.

And so Republicans are tapping into that saying,

you can't trust the government.

You can't trust the feds.

You can't.

And this is a narrative.

And we've seen this around authoritarianism worldwide.

It's this whole narrative.

The only we only MAGA can help save you.

And it's a more diabolical, thoughtful narrative.

And I think this is planned out.

I guess when you think about the consequences of speaking out,

the two best examples are Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney.

And they both lost their spots.

Well, Adam Kinzinger stepped out.

Because I think he knew that there was no future.

He didn't want to be part of that GOP anymore.

He knew that he was probably going to get primaried out

and Liz Cheney lost in a primary.

So those elected officials, those Mike Lees

and all those other individuals see those two

and say, I don't want to be like that.

I like my position.

I like my power.

So I might as well just go, you know,

I just feel like they were taking it.

Like, I don't remember who said it,

but the one person who said, if you watch the video,

they're staying within the roped, the velvet ropes.

So they're really following the rules.

Right.

They're being good little boys and girls.

Right.

844-967-2789.

Jack from Merrimack joining us.

Good morning, Jack.

Yeah, this is...

These are characteristics of fascism.

I'm sorry, but they are.

Retribution against your political enemies,

writing history with alternative facts,

controlling a major section of the media

that's called Fox News.

Let's see what else.

Oh, yeah.

A leader who says, only I can fix this

because government is totally wrecked.

Well, government's only wrecked

because the Republican Party has set out to do that

almost since Reagan, certainly since...

Who was it?

Gingrich that said, we want government so small

we can drown it in the bathtub.

Of course, government is struggling to work.

That's part of the whole plan.

What's really scary is if you've read about it,

and I think you probably have, is program 2025

where basically the Republicans intend to take over

the election system, the military system,

the civil service system,

basically every single part of government.

Talk about your authoritarian government.

Oh, Jack, I think we lost you there.

Thank you for calling Jack.

844-967-2789.

If we didn't think it'd get any worse,

yeah, program 2025, it's like...

Well, we talked to Joseph Heckey last week

just a little bit about this project 2025,

and this, from what I understand,

has been put together by various think tanks.

Yeah, think.

And so this is kind of an outline

for the Republican Party to follow

should Donald Trump get re-elected next year.

And it's pretty scary.

Yeah, and like when we talk about January 6th,

I just think of the Capitol being on fire,

and the smoke, and the flags,

and I was at work that day,

and I remember saying to my coworkers,

I think there's something happening right now,

and to watch that for what was like another hour or two,

three hours.

It's about three and a half hours.

It's terrifying because you're like,

okay, are they taking...

Is this it?

I mean, I know that they're a bunch of jackboot idiots,

essentially, but they're like,

oh, is this what's happening now?

When Trump announces at 2 a.m.,

we're gonna get to the Supreme Court and tell them

to stop the counting.

We won.

Is that what's happening now?

It didn't happen, but the possibilities

feel like they're there.

All the ingredients are in place.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Well, when we come back, we are going to move on,

again, the redistricting case

about gerrymandered maps in Wisconsin

going before the state Supreme Court tomorrow,

so we'll kick that around coming up.

Stay with us.

You're listening to Asgo's Wisconsin

on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Can we just stop?

I think like we don't know.

Eating up your lies.

Throw them out tomorrow.

Can we hold hands?

I promise you that they are free.

But they're not my fight.

Against these men that hide behind.

Can we just stop?

I think like we don't know.

Eating up your lies.

Throw them out tomorrow.

Your local Civic Media Radio Station.

This is The Shaw, W-A-U-K.

Joining us on Asgo's Wisconsin,

Jane McNair in for Kristen Brigh,

Calvin on the board, Greg Bach with me in studio.

All about joining us on the stream.

You can always watch the stream on Facebook,

YouTube, and Twitter.

You can also leave comments there,

or you can call or text at 844-967-2789-844-96.

Party.

Sorry, I got a dog text.

I got a dog text.

Sorry, I'm sorry.

Please get it, they're getting a dog.

A dog text?

No, I wish.

If I got a dog text, trust me, I quit.

I'm becoming a billionaire.

And also like that song, I love that song.

It's from Craig Ferguson when he was last show,

when he was on the late show.

Sorry, I have...

I lost my place, I apologize.

It will never happen again.

844-96, party.

Tomorrow, the Wisconsin Supreme Court

will have moral arguments in a redistricting lawsuit

that wants Republican-drawn voting maps

rather to be declared unconstitutional.

The redistricting suits filed

by 19 Democratic voters from Wisconsin

were submitted just a day after Justice Janet

was formally on the Wisconsin...

Swornin'.

Thank you, that's the word.

That would be the word.

I'll say this case is significant.

Wisconsin state legislative maps

and especially the assembly districts

are widely considered to be among

the most gerrymandered in the U.S.

If you remember in 2011,

the GOP redrew them in a way

that cemented an impenetrable majority.

In the state assembly, Republicans

have consistently won 60%

of the 99 seats,

sometimes with less than 50%

of the statewide vote.

In 2022, Governor Evers,

Democrat won reelection by three points,

but he only carried 38 of 99 assembly districts.

So it's going to be really interesting

to see where this goes.

Do you have any feeling about this, Don?

I'm just curious to watch it, right?

Because this is the culmination, I think,

of a lot of what happened back in April

in the campaign before that,

that certainly redistricting and fair maps

is a key component,

I think, for people who voted for

Judge and now Justice Janet Protasewitz.

And now it's coming true.

Now we have a four to three

illiterable majority on the court.

This case is the central reason

that Republicans were exploring

and still not ruled out

starting impeachment proceedings

against Justice Janet,

even though she hadn't even heard a case,

hadn't done anything,

a warranted impeachment,

because this could completely disrupt

the balance of power moving forward,

because it's not just a matter of

should the maps,

so if you're not familiar with the legislature,

every other year, all 99

members of the assembly are up for reelection.

Everybody goes up every other year.

In the state Senate,

you go half the, there's 33 state senators,

and half are elected in one year,

and then two years later, the other half.

So you never can completely throw out

the state Senate from a voting perspective.

But if this case goes the way that some people,

and we don't know how it will go,

but the way that some people think it may,

keyword may go,

the Supreme Court could find

that all the maps that were rewritten

last time around are unconstitutional,

and therefore require all members

of the legislature, all 99 assembly people,

all 33 state senators,

to go up for reelection next year,

in addition to all Congresspeople,

of course, who are up for reelection every other year,

and of course, Tammy Baldwin,

US senators, every six years,

her term is up next year as well,

and including the president.

So this could completely disrupt the balance of power

in terms of putting all these people up at the same time.

What I'm interested in is the case

that these people are bringing,

the plaintiffs are bringing,

how they're going to argue that,

and what the defense is for keeping it the same.

Just from a legal perspective,

I'm going to be interested in these arguments,

and then see what happens at the end.

And the one thing I'll simply add quickly is,

if the maps are thrown out,

and the Supreme Court then redraws them,

I simply hope that they are truly fair maps.

I hope there's not an overreach on the other side

to make them somehow dramatically tilt

towards Democratic candidates.

I really want fair maps.

I completely agree with you, Todd.

And again, I think because of the incredible turnout

for Justice Janet,

I think most Wisconsinites agree

that we want more fair maps,

but we don't want it gerrymandered in one way or the other.

We don't like cheaters.

We don't respect people who cheat.

I feel like Jane should have that.

You've said that many times,

and I don't just agree with you.

I just feel like that's a bumper sticker for you.

Wisconsin doesn't like cheaters.

But I don't think we do,

and I don't think we respect people who cheat.

And I also think that across the political spectrum,

people are tired of feeling

like their legislators do not have to respond

to what they want,

what their constituents want.

Medical marijuana.

Access to abortion.

Increased gun safety.

Increased funding for childcare.

I think most of us agree on a lot of those things,

and because of the gerrymander,

they simply don't have to respond,

and they can do whatever they want.

What's interesting as the watch is,

we were just talking about before,

even with the maps being the way they are now,

with this growing dissent within one party,

that gerrymandered map does not secure you.

And while he did get re-elected,

Robin Voss squeaked by in a primary.

The powerful great popcorn king squeaks by.

That says a lot too.

And maybe the maps, who knows,

would help him more.

Fair maps would help.

I have no idea.

But yes, I think you are right.

Fair maps are the way to go.

I think I would say 95% of the people agree.

Fair maps, I'm sure.

There are some Democrats who are like,

nah, it's time for revenge.

Oh, I don't doubt that.

But that's not the way to go forward,

and that's not the way to get anything done.

Because they're going to go right back to court then.

Yes.

And start this all over again.

I'm just curious to see,

with this whole contiguous thing,

on whether or not the districts have to be touching.

So this is something that goes back about 50 years,

and then they made some islands.

Now you can have an island.

This is the Kenny Rogers,

Dolly Parton political case of islands in the stream.

Political islands in the stream.

For people who don't know what we're talking about,

what they've literally have done is,

instead of a district being all contained within one boundary,

they have literally taken in some districts and said,

okay, we're going to create a circle or whatever.

And that's an island separate in somebody else's district.

District.

And it's bizarre.

It's the epitome of gerrymandering.

And it happened in Wisconsin.

Todd Alba, thank you so much for joining us every Monday

from 10 to 11 o'clock.

I appreciate all of you.

Todd Alba is the best.

Stick around and listen to Todd's show right after ours

from noon to two.

Stay with us.

You're listening to As Goes Wisconsin

on the Civic Media Radio Network.

Thank you.