Reflections and Resilience: 25 Years After 9/11

This is Amicus, a lot of you on the broadcast and podcast stations of Civic Media.

My name is Jim Santel and I'm once again honored that you've chosen to spend some portion of this next hour or so in exploration with me of frankly a special topic this week and that is going to be our 25th

recognition, our observance of the tragedy, the attack on America on September 11th of 2001.

So while we are going to be chatting along the way about rule of law issues and justice issues and administration of government issues, I'm going to spend most of the next 40 minutes or so talking with you about some of my own experiences, not only on September 11, but also in the wake of that.

my involvement in the war in Iraq that followed that a number of years later, and bringing together some of the common themes in the areas of rule of law.

It is undeniably a personal story, it's a professional story, but also an account that on this day when we were thinking back to the horrific events of September 11th, 25 years ago, these days, this day, this week, this time,

It's important for all of us to think not only about where we were, but also about the lessons that we have gathered from that day, that time, and the ways in which those events of that day and the days afterwards have animated and changed our very lives as an American population, as a worldwide population.

And so a special addition.

this week of Amicus a Lot Review and I thank you once again for participating with me in making that happen.

Let me begin by telling you what I was doing on September 11th of 2001.

I had just returned from a two-year assignment at the Department of Justice Building, the main justice building known now as the RFK Building in Washington, D.C.

I was working for Janet Reno, who at that time was the Attorney General, in particular working inside an agency, a unit of the Department of Justice called the Executive Office for United States Attorneys, sort of the interim, the liaison office between U.S.

attorneys around the country, 92 of them,

and the Department of Justice and its many units in Washington, D.C.

And I had gone out there, again, even as I was an assistant U.S.

Attorney in the Eastern District of Wisconsin on a two-year assignment.

It was a temporary location and a temporary set of responsibilities there at the main Justice Building right there along Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington, D.C., working again for Janet Reno and others that are responsible for the administration of justice.

At the end of that term in March and April of 2001, the decision was made that I should return to the United States Attorney's Office in Eastern Wisconsin and should go back with an appointment from the Attorney General, from Janet Minow, as the interim United States Attorney.

And although I was somewhat surprised, I was also honored by that decision that she had made.

And so at the end of two years at the Department of Justice returned home,

here to Eastern Wisconsin, to Milwaukee in particular, and to the federal courthouse at 517 East Wisconsin Avenue to take up the role as the Chief Federal Law Enforcement Officer, both civil cases, criminal cases, the Chief Law Enforcement Officer for the Eastern District of Wisconsin, which is the responsibility of the U.S.

Attorney.

Now, this was one of those interim appointments.

We've heard a lot about those in recent times in connection with our current President's appointments

of various US attorneys.

And my initial appointment from the Attorney General Waffle was for a term of weeks and months.

And at the end of that period, it was clear that there had not yet been identified a nomination, a nominee from the president for the permanent position there.

And so as we have talked before in other settings,

The law is that after an attorney general appointment of 120 days, the courts, the federal district judges in the particular district are responsible for identifying and naming a U.S.

attorney again in an interim status.

And so I was very honored after the attorney general's appointment to also get the appointment of the federal judiciary in Eastern Wisconsin.

And that continued my assignment then for what turned out to be a full year.

until April of 2002 as the interim United States Attorney.

Again, not Senate confirmed, not presidentially appointed, but nonetheless exercising all the duties and responsibilities of the U.S.

Attorney until the newly elected president, and that of course was George Bush.

would be identifying and nominating for review by the Senate, a presidentially confirmed and presented United States Attorney.

And so it was that in that connection, beginning in April of 2001, I was serving in that capacity back home, back in Milwaukee at 517 East Wisconsin Avenue in the federal courthouse.

Many of you may know that that's the sort of castle-like looking building built in about 1895, 1896.

a number of additions to it in the early 20th century but that building right on Wisconsin Avenue that has been the location of the Department of Justice and many other federal agencies ever since the late 19th century and so that's where I was again responsible for the basically the easternmost counties in the state of Wisconsin

And the administration of justice throughout all of that period of time, that is between April of 2001 and April of 2002.

And so it was that in the context of my serving in that capacity.

I invited to the Eastern District of Wisconsin the then Attorney General, his name is John Ashcroft.

You may remember him well.

He was by that time confirmed as the Attorney General.

He followed Janet Reno in that position.

And I invited John Ashcroft to the Eastern District of Wisconsin to visit the office here, to be with federal agents and otherwise make a visit.

to Eastern Wisconsin as a part of his duties and responsibilities as the Attorney General, and he accepted that invitation.

And we planned for his arrival on, yes, that's right, September 11th, 2001, to be with us at the federal courthouse in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

You may recall part of the history, part of the reminiscence going on even right now that virtually all of the cabinet members on that day were sent out to various locations throughout the nation.

And their responsibility on that day was remote reading in our schools, our public schools.

And so you may recall that the president himself, George Bush, was in Florida that day and he was reading to a group of school children, young school children at the time that his chief of staff interrupted him very famously in that photograph and whispered in his ear that America had been attacked and that there was at least one at that time and soon after two planes.

that had gone into the trade towers, the World Trade Towers in New York City.

And it was a part of that initiative, not only the president, but all the other cabinet members.

And it dispersed throughout the nation to read to children as a part of the government's effort.

to encourage reading and courage education in our nation.

John Ashcroft, again, accepting my invitation to come here to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, was also a part of that initiative.

And so that morning, that morning, he went to an elementary school on the near south side of Milwaukee and had begun that particular assignment, that particular work there, reading, as was the president, again, in Florida, reading here in eastern Wisconsin, in the state of Wisconsin.

to some school children.

Now, that morning, knowing that the Attorney General would not be at the federal courthouse, although we had prepared for him and indeed had made arrangements for him to arrive.

shortly before noon time that day and spend the afternoon with us in the courthouse, meeting again with the public, meeting with representatives of federal agencies.

There were a lot of preparations underway, of course, when the Attorney General comes and we anticipated that, but I was not there that morning because knowing that the Attorney General would not be there for a number of hours, I also had a commitment in the community talking about outreach and the work that the Department of Justice does at a

community meeting on the near north side of Milwaukee.

And so I recall very well going into that meeting at about 7 30 that morning.

And as we began that meeting, it was just about eight o'clock central time, beginning to get reports about this curious and ultimately horrific thing involving a plane that had gone into the north tower in New York City.

And at the time, the initial reports were that this may or may not be something significant.

It was curious at best and, of course, tragic at worst.

That first plane went into the North Tower, as you all well know.

That was Flight 11 at 746.

our time central time and as our meeting began we still did not have clarity on exactly what had happened at 803 flight 175 the second plane went into the south tower again these are central district times and so by that time early on in the meeting we knew that something horrific as to the world as to the nation had happened in new york city by 837 that's when flight 77

went into the Pentagon.

We knew about that as well and of course at that time the meeting was being adjourned and I was making my way from that particular community location on the near north side of Milwaukee into the federal courthouse in downtown Milwaukee.

It was at about 8.59 just as I had come into the federal courthouse

that the South Tower was beginning to collapse.

And at 903 that the plane, the fourth plane of that day, was going into the field there in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

At 837, before that, the third plane had gone into the Pentagon.

That was Flight 77.

And at 928, the North Tower collapsed.

All of that, those more recent events of that day,

Happening while I was back in the office playing the at that time already in contact with the Attorney General staff Who was talking with me about plans for that day again?

He was not in the building at that time and actually in the end Was planning was planning because of the tragedy that was unfolding again these planes going into the buildings in New York into the Pentagon in Washington DC into Shanksville the collapse of the towers there at 859

and at 928 in New York City, the tragedy that was happening in America, much in communication, not only with others in the building, but in the community generally, and indeed with the Attorney General's staff himself, speaking with him and his staff about what their plans were.

The initial plan, of course, as we were trying to make sense of what was going on.

on the east coast was for him to come back to the federal courthouse.

He had never been there before, but he was going to come back from the south side of Milwaukee and establish his office in what was then my office in the corner there on the.

fifth floor of the federal courthouse and take up housekeeping, take up his office there, return that into the office of the Attorney General for whatever time he needed to stay there.

And of course, we began to accommodate that request very much in communication with him about all of that.

And as it turned out, as it turned out, the Attorney General in communication with me and my staff

Chose not to come back into the federal courthouse But instead even while all of the planes were being grounded throughout America including including those for an official capacity The attorney general was one among several flown back that morning late that morning to Washington DC Plainly making that decision not to come into the federal courthouse, but we were planning that morning

for him to be with us, not only plainly.

Plans for the day changed dramatically, but being with us plainly for a very, very different day than the one that we were anticipating that morning.

John Ashcroft was in Milwaukee, was in Wisconsin in the Eastern District of Wisconsin on the morning of September 11th, 2001 as a part of his duties as the chief federal law enforcement officer of the state.

And I should tell you as well that while we were plainly disappointed that he was not present there plainly, not only did we understand but completely supported and facilitated whatever we could do to ensure that he, of course, was safe and secure and that his return to Washington D.C.

was also very much a part of his plan for that day, which he did.

We all know about the stories and accounts that happened.

Indeed, the government reaction to all of those things happening in the minutes and hours and days after that, by the time of the second tower collapse at about 9.30 that morning, I was beginning to bring together the staff of the U.S.

Attorney's Office, about 50 attorneys and professional staff together.

We got together in what's called the conference room on the sixth floor and it made the decision then plainly

to send them all home for reasons that I've explained in just a few moments from now.

We talked a bit about what we knew about what had happened, and the concern, of course, at that time, although not born out by history, was that this attack may be continuing on America.

We knew about what had happened in New York City, about what happened in

Washington D.C.

about what happened in Pennsylvania, but not certain at all about whether or not this was the end of it.

And so I had made the decision that to ensure the safety and security, yes, of the assistant U.S.

attorneys and the professional staff of the Department of Justice, that I would all send them home.

And that's exactly what I directed them to do.

Plainly, I communicated with the federal judiciary there.

Other federal agency heads

also encouraged them, given the fact that many of them are also in federal places that arguably could be the targets of future attacks, also encouraged them to take whatever actions they needed to take to ensure the safety and security of all of the people who were within their responsibilities.

I conferred at some length with the federal judges and magistrates there, and they also decided, with the exception of a couple that had to be addressed on an immediate basis,

to send all of the staff home to conclude things and to cancel any sentencing and any proceedings that were not of an emergency nature and conclude those on that day.

It was a Tuesday.

It was a Tuesday that is September 11th of 2001.

I sent home the staff and also then continued to stay there in the federal building.

I myself did decide to stay there and it is a clear recollection of mine.

that even in communication, not only with the Attorney General staff, but with the continuing communication with the Department of Justice staff.

And again, at this time, the Department of Homeland Security did not exist.

We know that that was created in the wake of all of this, the consolidation of agencies and other entities inside that department, but plenty talking a lot about safety and security and what we would do as a law enforcement unit still responsible.

Proposing the Constitution for ensuring that the rule of law was supported, that the administration of government continued to the extent it could, even in what was undeniably one of the worst crises in our 200-year history of America.

And so I stayed in the building that day, contrary to some of the advice both from professionals and also certainly from family members.

to ensure that that continuity happened.

Again, during the course of that day, there was no certainty.

And my colleagues around the nation, I was speaking to several of them, 91 other colleagues in places, again, on the East Coast, but also in other places.

across the nation, in the East, in the South, in the Midwest, in the West, out into the Pacific Ocean, as far as Guam and the Northern Marianas Islands, the District of Hawaii, obviously, California, other places around our nation also concerned about whether or not we had just seen the first of this and whether there would be continuing attacks on America, including other places of federal operation.

That included the federal cour as you know in 1896, built a very secure facility, but not too far from the a just south of the city.

Routinely from my window saw over like Michigan headed to land, but also to

that day.

And in the days that followed, continued to be concerned about what was going to happen next.

And so that day came and went, but we did not, as history would bear out, we did not have further attacks, even though on that day, as we all well remember at this time, 25 years later, 2,977 people, not including the terrorists themselves, perished.

on that day.

3,000 Americans lost their lives.

Many others are injured and we are today in this week, in this time, in these days remembering and mourning not only their losses in New York and in Washington, D.C.

and in Pennsylvania, but across our nation, all of those losses devastating to every single American in every single place.

of our lives and our livelihoods.

We recall as well the bravery as so many people are discussing these days of those law enforcement officers, those emergency responding professionals who also gave their lives and sacrificed their security to ensure that many people did survive the attacks in those locations.

We remember them and we honor them as a part of our genuine concern.

about not only the past, but also the present and the future for America, where yes indeed we rely upon people in government, good civil servants, which we often talk about on this broadcast, who show up every day to keep us safe and secure, to keep the integrity of our government going forward.

and to ensure that we do indeed have a government of which we can be proud that we can rely upon to keep us safe and secure.

I would offer to you as one of the many remembrance of September 11th, my own as well, that on that date, relying upon and depending upon the good work, a yes of civilians, but also of law enforcement, certainly of our military as well.

that we rely upon our government in all of its various iterations to keep us safe and secure.

That is the role of government and to do those things in a way that does not discriminate based upon any immutable characteristics, does not discriminate based upon citizenship or residency, does not discriminate based upon familial status or economic status or healthcare status or any of the other things that are matters for diversity.

but also bring us all together.

And that was my strong recollection of that day and certainly of the time that followed.

For those of you, many of you who were not alive on September 11th of 2001 or have only the most fleeting recollection of it, it's those of you who perhaps are 35 years old at this time and maybe a little bit younger and certainly older, those of you who do not remember, those of you who do remember should recall.

that at that time there was a great unity among all of us, the sort of dissension and the sort of disagreement, sometimes violent in nature that we are experiencing in our history this day, was not a part of our experience.

And this horrific thing, the loss of 3,000 people in America, placed in danger by these horrific terrorist actions in our own land, that did bring us together.

and did focus all of us on a common mission of once again what America is all about, not just only in protecting ourselves and ensuring that this kind of thing is safeguarded against in the future, but that we join together in larger concerns and focuses and initiatives about what the Constitution is all about.

and what we'd put together 200 years earlier.

There was truly a sense of unity at that time that lasted for weeks, for months, I would dare say even years following that.

And inside the Department of Justice locally and around the country, we benefited from that when it comes to continuing to enforce the law, to ensure that the things that Americans expect us to do

The citizens and residents of Eastern Wisconsin and the other 92 districts around the country, expect of law enforcement, expect of prosecutors, expect of federal government officers to enforce the things that government should do.

There was a certain unity, even in supporting that all important work, that regrettably, regrettably time has to some extent, not completely, but to some extent erased.

And it is important to recollect

that this horrific event where we had 3,000 people who gave their lives, not in vain, not in vain at all, to promote and to ensure the future of America on that day.

We mourn their losses and we celebrate the lives that they gave to ensure the future of America.

Many accounts not only of what happened,

with respect to the planes that went into the towers in New York and the Pentagon, but also today, especially that plane going into Shanksville, the field there and the recollection by those people that they themselves were a part of something horrific that was about to happen.

And they made a decision.

Let's roll.

to sacrifice their own lives that day for the betterment of all of us.

That spirit of America and the unity that we recognize that day, that continued for a long period of time.

Now, there was more that also brings me to be very pensive and thoughtful on this time when we recognize the things that happened 25 years ago.

I finished my term as the interim U.S.

Attorney at that time, again, about a number of months later in April of 2002.

And yes, before that concluded, I invited John Ashcroft back.

And he did in fact come back to the federal courthouse, making good on his promise and my invitation that he was there.

And we did in that day in April, shortly before the conclusion of my interim term, before the presidentially appointed U.S.

Attorney took hold.

We did in fact do the many things, of course, reminiscing not only about what had happened months earlier, but about this continuing commission that was still alive in America to ensure that all of us are safe and secure.

John Ashcroft and his staff back in the Eastern District of Wisconsin in April of 2002.

I continued my work in the U.S.

Attorney's Office there as a criminal prosecutor, a civil litigator.

I spent a little over a year after that, taking on another assignment in Grand Rapids, Michigan, serving as a supervisor there for some civilization.

And I came back then to the Eastern District of Wisconsin.

And in late 2005, I accepted an appointment, a volunteer appointment.

I raised my hand to go to the Republic of Iraq, the emerging Republic of Iraq, that of course was a focus of the wartime effort.

and some comments about that in particular and about the reasons why I did that.

You know well, all of us know that in the wake of 9-11, 25 years ago, the decision was made to begin a war in Afghanistan, to punish the people who were responsible presumably for the violence and the terrorism in our nation, and then a second decision to go into Iraq.

also upon what turned out to be inaccurate and unjustified and unsupported information, intelligence, that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction that might also pose a risk to our nation.

And although we did not know it at that time, George Bush, the president, initiated that second war in Iraq at that time, again, under the umbrella, under the emphasis of ensuring our future

safety and security premised once again upon what turned out to be bad information, bad intelligence.

And I'd like to offer here a perspective that I often do, which is you can believe two things at one time.

As I do to this day, I can believe with all of my heart and soul and mind that the decision to go in was premised upon bad information.

And yes, indeed, the war itself would not have happened had we had more accurate information.

When I volunteered to go there, not in a warring capacity, I wasn't a part of the military.

I went there as something called the Justice Attache, and ultimately the rule of law, where I needed to do three things, to work with the courts, to develop their system, even as the war was going on in the wake of Saddam Hussein, to reestablish the rule of law there, to work with prisons and

corrections officials there to get to reestablish a system of rule of law that respected the dignity of human beings there in Iraq, inside a penal system, a correction system, and also working with police to ensure that they also understood their duties and responsibilities.

So the three aspects of the stool of justice, the courts, the prisons and police, that was my role among a small group.

of other assistant U.S.

attorneys from around the country who had also volunteered, again, continuing our jobs, but volunteered to serve in these special capacities that the Attorney General at that time, I guess that was Alberto Gonzalez, had asked us to do as a part of the initiative.

The focus of that was not to engage in the war, although plainly the war was going on.

And again, right outside the United States Embassy there in Baghdad, where I was most centrally located, but also at the same time to recreate a nation in the wake of the autocratic and dictatorial regime of Saddam Hussein, to put together the appurtenances, the structures of the rule of law, again, prisons and police, and especially the courts.

And that's what I did from 2006.

to 2008, two years there with some breaks back in America, back home in the Republic of Iraq, the emerging Republic of Iraq.

I mentioned before that it is possible to believe two things at one time.

When I was there, it became very clear to me that there was simply no way that Saddam Hussein had any weapons of mass destruction.

And to this day, I scratched my head about these findings of the monitors, the people who were there that suggested that he might

He was not that sophisticated, just the opposite.

He did not have the operations to put together any of this.

And so my own admittedly somewhat limited exposure to that reconfirmed for me that the information, the intelligence that our intelligence communities provided to the president in support of this decision to go in and begin this war in Iraq was unfounded and unsupported.

Even so, and this is the second thing which I can believe, which you can believe at the same time, even acknowledging the impropriety of that intelligence and therefore the wrongness of the decision to go in to begin that war, I can also believe that once the war was underway, we had a role to pursue.

We had made the decision as a country, cannot turn back time, cannot turn back history to try to make some sense of

what we had done and admittedly the war was going very badly by the time i arrived there we had gone in 2003 that's when saddam was toppled i went in in early 2006 by that time the country was in uproar and was in disarray as various groups identifying the absence of clear authority began to war not only against us but against others as well it was in the midst of that that people like ambassador brian crocker

And before him, Zalmay Khalilzad, and yes, other civilians like me from other agencies were attempting to restore and recreate a nation there of the rule of law, a republic ultimately of Iraq.

Even as the war was going on, even as what would turn out to be 4,500 members of our own military lost their lives, thousands more injured in that war.

that lasted well beyond 2008.

4,500 of our military lost their lives.

Just as earlier, 3,000 Americans, civilians had lost their lives in 9-11.

Many others of our coalition forces, hundreds others, had also lost their lives.

And it's significant to note as well, the tragedy that is war, again, I can believe,

in both the illegitimacy of the initial decision to go in, but also honoring those people who died, plainly hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and others in the wake of that war died.

Estimates of between 460 and 600,000 people died in that war.

That is a tragedy of untold dimension.

And that tragedy continues to this day, even so, even so, the second thing that I can believe.

Recognizing the horrors of war, the losses of our military, the losses that go along with any war is that we have an obligation as a nation to not only make good on our commitment to Iraqis, but to the world to try to restore some sense of balance.

And that's the reason why I, and yes, a small number of others inside the Department of Justice raised our hands and said, yes, let's see what we can do in our small part.

to recreate a government there, post war, post Saddam, a republic of Iraq.

And I will not be so bold and so arrogant as to say that that's exactly what I and others accomplished.

But I will tell you that I'm very proud of the fact that for two years, I and others worked with prison officers and worked with police officers and worked with the courts in particular in judges establishing new courts.

and new corrections facilities and retraining our police and judges and corrections officers in the ways that civilized societies, unlike Saddam's, would act for a rational and reasonable group of people.

I'm very proud.

I'm very proud of the work that we did at that time.

A new constitution in place in the wake of what was done by my predecessors and the people who followed me as well.

And the reality is that as

talking about this notion that you can indeed believe two things at the same time the impropriety of the decision to go in but the need as Americans to ensure that a new republic is established there at the same time and most importantly most importantly when people to this day say that the war in Iraq produced nothing good and that the lives lost there 4,500 Americans

many other coalition forces and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and others that those lives were lost, I will say out loud that their lives were not lost in vain, that today as a result, not so much of what I did, but as a result of what Americans did there and continue to do there for a long period of time under groups like the USAID and other initiatives of a former state department, a former justice department.

All the things that we did at that time created what we know today, which is no longer an authoritarian government.

It is no longer a country led by a despot.

It is a place that has elections on a regular basis.

They have a parliament that is elected.

There are representatives from the various provinces around that nation.

There are courts that are acting responsibly.

There are police officers that again, imperfect to be sure,

as our all police officers on the face of the planet, but doing an outstanding job under difficult circumstances that was not there when Saddam was in place.

We have prisons that are now providing at least some modicum of livelihood and support for

the people who are necessarily incarcerated in those jails and prisons in Iraq, a rational and reasonable prison system is also there.

And so while, once again, it is understandable that people will look to the war in Iraq and dismiss it as being a complete loss and dismiss it, frankly, politically.

On one side of the aisle or another, my own view is not to adopt that and to say those two things that I believe.

Decision to go in was not supported and was wrong, but once we were there, we have created today a republic there in the Middle East that is an ally of ours.

We still have a strong presence there, both military and yes diplomatic.

It is the largest embassy on the face of the planet right there along the Tigris River.

We still have diplomatic relations, obviously, with this country that we did not previously have diplomatic relations with.

And most important, there is a republic of Iraq.

Is it imperfect?

Absolutely.

Is our own nation still struggling with achieving what we anticipated would be a more perfect union, again, 239 years ago?

Yes, they're doing the same.

years after the recreation of their own republic.

It is in Mesopotamia, the birthplace of civilization, that this new republic is now emerging.

Again, the lives lost there, those military folks, the civilian folks, lives not lost in vain because their lives, their lives were laid down to create a nation

struggling to this day, absolutely, imperfect to this day, absolutely, but still, still going forward in a way that we can identify, again, through elections, through the work of government and the operations of all the things that we talk about on this broadcast, the rule of law, the administration of a reasonably responsible government, and all of that, all of that supported

because we were there as Americans.

I recognize that my statements about Iraq are not common to many people in America.

And I recognize as well that they're the reasons for debate.

And that is also going on today in Iraq because they too have freedom of expression and freedom of debate.

That's the reason why we were there.

That did not exist under Saddam Hussein.

That was not the situation.

when the war began.

And so I offer all of that on a day when we think pensively about September 11th that put all of this in motion, including a huge amount of legislation that came out of September 11th, 2001, that too controversial in terms of law enforcement and the ways that our government operates, the ways that our military operates in place, the kinds of things that we do on a routine basis,

inside and outside government, the impact of 9-11, both with respect to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and other places around the nation, cannot be overstated.

We think once again, and this time and this day, about the losses that were suffered, the possibilities of those 3,000 people, husbands, wives, children,

Others who would have gone on to change the ways in which America lives and breathes, the losses are profound, from which we will never recover.

I would offer once again that while we mourn their deaths and we mourn their absences as we do, anyone who puts down their lives in service of their nation, military and civilian alike, that those lives are not in vain.

And in fact, their citizenship, their residency, their commitment to our nation is to be heralded today, even when we bemoan the tragic, horrific events of September 11th and mourn their losses and feel their absences once again today.

In future broadcasts, it's premised upon that commitment, that recommitment here in America and in other places like Iraq.

that embrace the rule of law, the administration, justice, the aspiration for justice, that this broadcast, this podcast continues.

We'll be returning next week to our more regular format talking about the ways in which those all important principles, that yes, I believe are alive and well in America, even in the midst of our challenges of this day, that are alive and well in many other nations around our planet, including the Republic of Iraq, is in furtherance of those concepts.

that this broadcast on the stations of civic media is put together every single week for your consumption.

We'll continue with that mission even as this day, this time, this week, this era, we never forget.

We never forget about the history of 9-11 and the importance of this day for all of us who continue to live in this place called the United States of America.

I thank you for joining me on this special edition of Amica Solar Review and look forward to your joining me again in future editions of our broadcast.

This is Amicus, a lot of you on the broadcast and podcast stations of Civic Media.

My name is Jim Santel and I'm once again honored that you've chosen to spend some portion of this next hour or so in exploration with me of frankly a special topic this week and that is going to be our 25th

recognition, our observance of the tragedy, the attack on America on September 11th of 2001.

So while we are going to be chatting along the way about rule of law issues and justice issues and administration of government issues, I'm going to spend most of the next 40 minutes or so talking with you about some of my own experiences, not only on September 11, but also in the wake of that.

my involvement in the war in Iraq that followed that a number of years later and bringing together some of the common themes in the areas of rule of law.

It is undeniably a personal story, it's a professional story, but also an account that on this day when we were thinking back to the horrific events of September 11th, 25 years ago, these days, this day, this week, this time,

It's important for all of us to think not only about where we were, but also about the lessons that we have gathered from that day, that time, and the ways in which those events of that day and the days afterwards have animated and changed our very lives as an American population, as a worldwide population, and so a special addition.

this week of Amicus a Lot Review, and I thank you once again for participating with me in making that happen.

Let me begin by telling you what I was doing on September 11th of 2001.

I had just returned from a two-year assignment at the Department of Justice Building, the main justice building known now as the RFK Building in Washington, D.C.

I was working for Janet Reno, who at that time was the Attorney General, in particular working inside an agency, a unit of the Department of Justice called the Executive Office for United States Attorneys, sort of the interim, the liaison office between U.S.

attorneys around the country, 92 of them,

and the Department of Justice and its many units in Washington, D.C.

And I had gone out there, again, even as I was an assistant U.S.

Attorney in the Eastern District of Wisconsin on a two-year assignment.

It was a temporary location and a temporary set of responsibilities there at the main Justice Building right there along Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington, D.C., working again for Janet Reno and others that are responsible for the administration of justice.

At the end of that term in March and April of 2001, the decision was made that I should return to the United States Attorney's Office in Eastern Wisconsin and should go back with an appointment from the Attorney General from Jen Artmino as the Interim United States Attorney.

And although I was somewhat surprised, I was also honored by that decision that she had made.

And so at the end of two years at the Department of Justice returned home.

here to eastern Wisconsin to Milwaukee in particular and to the federal courthouse at 517 east wisconsin avenue to take up the role as the chief federal law enforcement officer both civil cases criminal cases the chief law enforcement officer for the eastern district of Wisconsin which is the responsibility

of the U.S.

Attorney.

Now, this was one of those interim appointments.

We've heard a lot about those in recent times in connection with our current President's appointments of various U.S.

Attorneys.

And my initial appointment from the Attorney General, Waffle, was for a term of weeks and months.

And at the end of that period, it was clear that there had not yet been identified a nomination, a nominee from the President for the permanent position there.

And so as we have talked before in other settings,

The law is that after an attorney general appointment of 120 days, the courts, the federal district judges in the particular district are responsible for identifying and naming a U.S.

attorney again in an interim status.

And so I was very honored after the attorney general's appointment to also get the appointment of the federal judiciary in Eastern Wisconsin.

And that continued my assignment then for what turned out to be a full year.

until April of 2002 as the interim United States Attorney.

Again, not Senate confirmed, not presidentially appointed, but nonetheless exercising all the duties and responsibilities of the U.S.

Attorney until the newly elected president, and that of course was George Bush.

would be identifying and nominating for review by the Senate, a presidentially confirmed and presented United States Attorney.

And so it was that in that connection beginning in April of 2001, I was serving in that capacity back home, back in Milwaukee at five to 17 East Wisconsin Avenue in the federal courthouse.

Many of you may know that that's the sort of castle-like looking building built in about 1895, 1896.

a number of additions to it in the early 20th century but that building right on Wisconsin Avenue that has been the location of the Department of Justice and many other federal agencies ever since the late 19th century and so that's where I was again responsible for the basically the eastern most counties in the state of Wisconsin

And the administration of justice throughout all of that period of time, that is between April of 2001 and April of 2002.

And so it was that in the context of my serving in that capacity.

I invited to the Eastern District of Wisconsin the then Attorney General, his name is John Ashcroft.

You may remember him well.

He was by that time confirmed as the Attorney General.

He followed Janet Reno in that position.

And I invited John Ashcroft to the Eastern District of Wisconsin to visit the office here, to be with federal agents and otherwise make a visit.

to Eastern Wisconsin as a part of his duties and responsibilities as the Attorney General, and he accepted that invitation.

And we planned for his arrival on, yes, that's right, September 11th, 2001, to be with us at the federal courthouse in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

You may recall part of the history, part of the reminiscence going on even right now that virtually all of the cabinet members on that day were sent out to various locations throughout the nation.

And their responsibility on that day was remote reading in our schools, our public schools.

And so you may recall that the president himself, George Bush, was in Florida that day and he was reading to a group of school children, young school children at the time that his chief of staff interrupted him very famously in that photograph.

and whispered in his ear that America had been attacked, and that there was at least one at that time and soon after two planes that had gone into the trade towers, the World Trade Towers in New York City.

And it was a part of that initiative, not only the president, but all the other cabinet members, and you can disperse throughout the nation to read to children as a part of the government's effort

to encourage reading and courage education in our nation.

John Ashcroft, again, accepting my invitation to come here to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, was also a part of that initiative.

And so that morning, that morning, he went to an elementary school on the near south side of Milwaukee and had begun that particular assignment, that particular work there, reading, as was the president again in Florida, reading here in eastern Wisconsin, in the state of Wisconsin.

to some school children.

Now, that morning, knowing that the Attorney General would not be at the federal courthouse, although we had prepared for him and indeed had made arrangements for him to arrive.

shortly before noon time that day and spend the afternoon with us in the courthouse, meeting again with the public, meeting with representatives of federal agencies.

There were a lot of preparations underway, of course, when the Attorney General comes and we anticipated that, but I was not there that morning because knowing that the Attorney General would not be there for a number of hours, I also had a commitment in the community talking about outreach and the work that the Department of Justice does at a

community meeting on the near north side of Milwaukee.

And so I recall very well going into that meeting at about 7 30 that morning.

And as we began that meeting, it was just about eight o'clock central time beginning to get reports about this curious and ultimately horrific thing involving a plane that had gone into the north tower in New York City.

And at the time, the initial reports were that this may or may not be something significant.

It was curious at best and, of course, tragic at worst.

That first plane went into the North Tower, as you all well know.

That was Flight 11 at 746.

our time, central time.

And as our meeting began, we still did not have clarity on exactly what had happened.

At 8.03, like 1.75, the second plane went into the South Tower.

Again, these are central district times.

And so by that time, early on in the meeting, we knew that something horrific, as to the world, as to the nation, had happened in New York City.

By 8.37, that's when Flight 77

went into the Pentagon.

We knew about that as well and of course at that time the meeting was being adjourned and I was making my way from that particular community location on the near north side of Milwaukee into the federal courthouse in downtown Milwaukee.

It was at about 8.59 just as I had come into the federal courthouse

that the south tower was beginning to collapse.

And at 903 that the plane, the fourth plane of that day, was going into the field there in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

At 837, before that, the third plane had gone into the Pentagon.

That was Flight 77.

And at 928, the north tower collapsed.