From the Birkebeiner!

Welcome, grab your favorite morning beverage and join us for morning canolies with Jim Santel.

Sampling the news desserts of the week, here is your host, Jim Santel.

This is Jim Santel. And yes, I am your host for this hour and next hour here on the broadcast

stations of civic media, delighted to be with you this morning, delighted that you are with me on

what is going to turn out to be a very special, a special edition of our Saturday morning broadcast.

I will tell you all about that in just a few moments. As always, this is our weekly review,

our analysis, our description of the major events, those significant things happening in our lives,

locally in the state, in the nation. And yes, this morning also in the world that affect what,

that affect government and law and the aspiration for justice that we all have including right here

in our state and in our nation. As always, we have an ambitious but achievable agenda. Again,

add it on to today with something very special that we've never done before. Very excited about

that to tell you about that in just a few moments. As always, our questions, our questions are focused

on three principal things. And that is what happened. What do we know about the recent news

events of our lives? Why are they important? Why are they significant? That's our second major

question. And third, what should we do about them? If there are things that we should react to,

respond to, what should be be thinking about in terms of making our own decisions about the things

that have happened, understanding why there's significant material in our lives, and the things that

we should do in response to those. We're going to be asking and answering all of those questions

for you this morning in this first hour and our next hour as well. I am delighted to be with you

and also to be with my wonderful producer, Calvin, right here in the Civic Media Studios here in

downtown. Beautiful walk a shop, but we are broadcasting again throughout stations throughout

the state of Wisconsin. And yes, indeed, here's your teaser. We're actually going to be involving

some of my colleagues here in the Civic Media Network coming from cable Wisconsin. Yes, indeed,

we're going to be doing some cut-ins, some information, some conversation about the all-important

Brookabiner cross-country ski race. It is the largest cross-country ski race in North America.

And we'll be talking about it live to you as it's going on this morning. This has been a part of

the Civic Media presentation throughout this past week. I've got some great friends and guests.

We're going to be joining me on four occasions in the next couple of hours. Greg and Greg, I'll

introduce them shortly. I'm going to be talking with me and talking with all of us about the things that

they are perceiving, the things that they're experiencing there in cable, in Hayward. This

all-important sporting event affected this year by the weather, but not at all dampened in spirit

and enthusiasm. We'll be talking all about the Brookabiner. And yes, indeed, there is a connection,

a strong connection, which we'll get to in just a few moments between their work there in Hayward

and cable, the involvement of all of these sports enthusiasts, these cross-country skiers,

and rule of law issues, government, and the commitment that all of us should make

too good government, the focus, a lot of focus this morning on the involvement of human beings,

and making certain that government remains viable, and the significance of being out there to be

responsible for government. We're going to talk about some history that leads up to the Brookabiner

here in Wisconsin that goes back 825 years. Some rule of law history, some rule of law

perspective, this is also going to animate our discussions with my friends, Gray and Greg,

in just a few moments. Before we get to that, let me tell you about the other things that are

going to be on our important achievable syllabus this morning. You're necessarily going to be

talking once again about Supreme Court-related issues, and that has to do with things like firearms.

Just yesterday, we know that the head of the NRA and the NRA itself was on the receiving end of

a major jury verdict, and we're going to talk about that, the significance of that, inside our

larger discussion about firearms, and it's even going to go back and talk a little bit about this

Michigan case against the mother and ultimately the father as well of a young man who's already

pled guilty to an horrific shooting there in Michigan. We're going to talk about the consequences of

that inside our larger discussion about firearms in America. We're also, of course, going to talk

about this other major issue having to do with the embryos and whether or not embryos are human

beings. It's a decision by the Alabama Supreme Court that I suspect all of you have heard about.

I'm going to parse that, describe that, and talk there again about the consequences of that

major decision having to do with privacy rights and reproductive rights, the connection between

what the Alabama Supreme Court has done, and the things that are out there generally in our world.

Then we're going to also chat about academics. All these things somewhat related to the Supreme

Court. We're going to talk about a decision made by Yale University just this past week,

having to do with admissions. We're going to go back and figure out what has happened in the wake

of the June decision of last year by our United States Supreme Court having to do, having to do with

the decision about prohibiting schools from addressing race as one of the considerations when it

comes to admissions. We've got issues on firearms, on embryos, and reproductive life, and reproductive

issues. Academics are going to do some updates as well about these major cases involving Donald

Trump. The judgment entered against him just yesterday by the New York court, the decision that's

still pending in front of the Supreme Court having to do with his immunity defense in the federal case.

We're also going to go back and talk about something we haven't talked about in a while. That is

Florida case involving Mar-a-Lago, the documents case. What is Judge Eileen Cannon doing there?

What are the recent events and what can we anticipate this coming week and hearing the

cheese got scheduled on next best steps there? Finally, in the category generally of our focus

this week on things related to timing and on the world in which we live. We're going to talk more

about some of the international issues, including things going on in places like Brazil and Pakistan

and Germany. All of those also have lessons for us here in America, reverberating also for us

here in America when it comes to our own politics, our own government, and our own aspiration for

justice, all that. All of that on our agenda, our syllabus this morning, including, including

again, just right after our first break, we're going to be talking with my friends Gray and Greg

about the Brookabiner cross country. So let me do some history, some rule of law history as a predicate

for that discussion coming up in just about five or six minutes or so. It has to do with a young man,

a young man named Prince Hakan, H-A-K-O-N. He was born in the village of Fulkenberg in Norway,

and probably in the summer of 1204, maybe spring or so of that year. His father,

was a king, his name is Hakan Severson, and Inga had been with Hakan at the time of the birth

of young Hakan. So what happens is that Hakan Severson was a leader of something called the

yes, that's right, the Brookabiner faction, the Brookabiner faction in an ongoing civil war with a

a competing group called the Baglers, B-A-G-L-E-R. And Hakan, the king, was dead by the time his son,

young Hakan was born, and his mother's claim, Inga's claim was supported by several of Hakan

Severson's followers. She were again the remaining matriarch of the family. He was born young Hakan

into the Bagler-controlled territory in that area, and his mother's claim, his mother's position,

placed young Hakan at the time in a very serious apparelist position for his life.

And the Baglers, that is again the competing group there in the early part of the 13th century,

started hunting for young Hakan. A group of the Berkabiner's, again, interested in protecting

their government, their basis for their livelihood there, found the young child in the winter of

12.5, 12.6, and they picked him up to keep him from getting abducted and arguably even killed by

the Baglers, the competing faction there, and they headed for a king, Inga Bardson. He was the

new Berkabiner king in that area, and the party that would took him, especially two skiers in

particular, are bringing young Hakan across the land. They're stricken by a blizzard, and two of

those very best skiers carried on with the young child over the mountains, and they eventually arrive

at the location of the king. They bring young Hakan to safety with King Inga, and that event,

that event is commemorated even in modern day Norway by this popular skiing event known there

as the Berkabiner Renette, the Berkabiner Renette. That dramatic childhood incident, that is being

young, being the target of an attempted abduction, arguably even attempted homicide by the

competing faction, and the decision by these very brave Berkabiner's to take the young boy and

bring him through the through the winter on their cross-country skis, posing some great danger to

themselves. All of that, all of that gives rise not only to this great event that did happen,

that did happen in Norway, and again in 1205, 1206, the winter of that year. All of that gives rise,

not only to that great story here, but also to this rule of law notion that exists in Norway

to this day. That is the importance of understanding what your government is all about.

Again, even there, even there, there at the time, obviously they have got a monarchy,

as do many other countries in Europe at that time, even to this day. But they recognize the

importance of a legitimate government, and they recognize the significance of not engaging in violence

to upset or in any way to counterman or undermine that governmental authority issues that reverberate

even to us to this day in this nation when we think about the future of our nation. We don't have,

we don't have a monarchy, we all know that. 240 years, we have thrown that off from the

king in England. But one of the continuing messages of today's discussion on law and government,

the aspiration for justice is going to be all about this focus on what people themselves do

to preserve the government, at least the trappings of government, so that we've got those rights that

we do have here in America, other places, things like freedom of expression, freedom of assembly,

freedom of faith expression, all those kinds of things. That's what in many ways, this story about

young King Hocken is all about, and yes indeed, and yes indeed, it always is going to be important

as we understand right here in Wisconsin, that that event in Norway prompted the creation, the

creation of our own Berkabiner, which again is this ski race, this cross country ski race,

it is the largest, the largest cross country ski race in North America, right here in Wisconsin,

cable, Hayward, that part of our world, about five and a half, almost six hours from where I'm

direct broadcasting Calvin and I are this morning, would it be joining right after this break by

folks who are up there? Again, my colleagues, a Gray Gunderson and Greg Grisel can be joining me to

talk about what they're witnessing, what they've been involved in this past week in the Wisconsin

Berkabiner, the national Berkabiner, this important place in our state, this great sporting event,

that also I would offer to you this morning, in the context of our own Saturday morning broadcast,

is even in its sporting elaborateness, even in its exaltation of sporting and the great

thing is going on right there, is also an affirmation of the rule of law and of justice and of things

that government can and should do to make the country, make the locality, make the state better.

All of those issues packed into our discussion coming up here on our Saturday morning broadcast,

right after this break going to be going to cable and talking about the Berkabiner and my good

friends, Gray and Greg, stay with me for that important discussion right here on our Saturday morning

broadcast, stay with us and join us as well.

We are back, and my name is Jimson, tell I'm your host this hour and next hour, right now,

a very special feature on our Saturday morning broadcast, delighted to have you participating with

Calvin and me and my good friends, Gray, Gunderson and Greg Grisel, both of them, Greg and

Gray are right now in cable, Wisconsin and they're participating, they're looking at, they're going

to be talking with us right now about the Berkabiner cross-country ski race, Greg and Greg, glad to have

you with me this morning on our Saturday morning broadcast. Happy to be here Jim, thank you so much

for letting us broadcast in on behalf of WBZH here out of Hayward, our civic media station,

in Hayward, of course, Big G and I are in cable, and if you don't mind, we'd like to just

immediately thank our sponsor cut in possible today. Please do just that, that's important.

I echo that, Jim, thank you very much for letting us come on your show today.

The first couple sponsors we'd like to thank are actually located right in Hayward,

they would be River and Rain, Wellness Boutique, and Advanced Printing of Hayward, and Big G's

got a couple as well. I want to thank the Lakewood Cafe on Railroad Street, great great burgers,

delicious pie, and also thank Lakeside Puppety Service, the Park Falls, Wisconsin,

for helping us get through this broadcast this afternoon from more broadcasts here at WBZH Radio,

the Buzz of the North, and our network of civic media stations.

And an extra special thank you to the Cable Natural History Museum,

based for the American Berkabiner. The number of people compared to the cell signal available

in a town of this size, I'm afraid we were forced into a Wi-Fi territory instead.

And that's a good thing, because you know what, we can hear you just fine, and let's do just the same,

just great, just great. So the two of you have been up there all week, yes?

Well, we actually were here, we started, our presence here began mostly yesterday.

There has been a civic media presence in the area all week beginning with Todd Alba,

who has been doing his live show from the WBZH offices in Hayward for most or all of this week.

And he was able to take in well as some of our other colleagues,

Catherine Lake was able to take in some Berky as well. We primarily have been witnessing

it firsthand as of yesterday, and we'll be seeing a little bit more of it today, today kind of

being the main event, or the main day of events among the five days that the Berky covers.

Yeah, that's an incredible atmosphere up there, Jim. When you go up there, it's like

Mother Nature didn't cooperate with us this year as far as snow conditions, and you know,

you drive up here, you see, you see brown, brown grass and the woods and stuff, and you drive

through the woods and all of a sudden there's this winter wonderland with all these, all these

cross-country skiers, the colors, big entertainment tent there, great stage there.

Just out of nowhere, it's quite incongruous. The drive compared to the destination,

it's amazing the discrepancy you see. And that's off to everybody that helped pull this thing off

this year. Absolutely. And so tell us about that. So we've got a manufactured snow

and looks spectacular. You mentioned before, it looks like a, almost like a Disney movie.

How did that happen? How did that come about? Well, actually, the decision on what the

Berky would be, and frankly, whether there would be a Berky this year given the Wisconsin

weather that we've had was not finalized until the 12th of February, just under two weeks ago.

And so the decision having been made at that time only allowed so much time for preparation

between decision and race day, and long story, no since January, and the amount of snow that has

been manufactured by far supersedes the amount that has fallen naturally. So I would estimate

a maximum natural snow content of 5% in what is being used as the track, which is over six miles

of one foot to three foot thick track. Again, these are my estimates, but the amount of snow

hauled, placed, groomed repeatedly is quite astounding. The human effort involved is a site to

behold all its own when you get to the track here. Incredible. The way they got it set up and they

got it graded so nice. And now the way they're able to keep the snow is amazing, just incredible.

And I'm going to guess that that effort also produced lots of human beings there participating

in the ski race. Tell me about that. Tell us all about the human beings were there.

The population that you show up for this major event. Yeah, you just, you just,

it's everybody is so excited. I mean, they got the cowbells going and everything going over there

and the colors and the skiers really have some colorful outfits and just walking around there

in the, in the, there, just walking and talking to some people there. And I can say there's people,

there's skiers from all over the world here. I mean, you're talking from all over the country here

from we're talking like from, I think I saw a winner from Florida yesterday. Yep.

UK. All around the world. They're representatives, Switzerland, Sweden. Yeah, if you,

if you look at the leaderboards for any given event, there's a pretty solid chance that there's

a Scandinavian at the top or somebody from Clam Lake, just a couple miles away from here. So it's

a fantastic international effort to cooperation in the participation as well as the,

the local left. I think it possible was, was nothing short of astonishing. It's,

it's quite evident. You walk up to this improvised 10 kilometer loop track with what is essentially

a concert space in the middle that they call the celebration areas that you can be right up close

to all of the action during all of the events there. They're, they're going right by you. You can't,

I mean, you're not encouraged to reach out and touch the skiers as they go by, but if a person

we're so, so, absolutely, these events are for all ages. And young people and older people as

well, before we break in this first segment, and you guys are going to come back later in the hour

too, right? You can make that commitment to me this morning. Yes, right? Absolutely, absolutely.

In the second hour as well, tell me about what's going on today. What is the, what is the schedule

today for what you're going to be seeing up there in cable and Hayward? Saturday is really the,

the main event day. It includes some of the, the more, the more popular or famous Berkey events.

So today, there's going to be the 30K American Berkey skate. There will also be the super

tour men and women's American Berkabiner. And then there's an event known as the Spirit of 35.

Some of these events actually had an alternate day on Thursday. So we'll really find out today

what the actual podium is going to look like. And then one special note, the women's, the USA women's

2018 cross-country Olympic team, the first US team to ever gain the gold medal in cross-country

half of that team. Jesse Diggins will be participating in the events today at the cable

telemark village as just as a normal world participant in the Berkabiner, like anybody else.

Terrific, fantastic. Say, gentlemen, thank you so much for this. All started way back in

12.5, 12.6 with the original Berkabiner events as we described them. Those rule of law events

way back in Norway, alive today in Wisconsin, alive today with you. You guys are going to join me again

at the end of this hour. Again, the second hour as well a couple of times. So we back in touch with

you. Thank you so much this morning for this information, this insight in what's going on there.

We'll be back in touch with the two of you very, very shortly. Thanks, Greg. Again, thanks. James Gray.

Thank you, Jim. Wonderful. And so, and so in connection with, in connection with this

international notion that we have this morning, this idea that we are all connected,

so I said at the end of our second hour, we're going to be spending some time talking about

other places in the world in which rule of law issues have been important, including places

like Brazil and Pakistan, even Germany. We're going to begin this morning, our rule of law,

exposition, our review, with things happening just yesterday in our own world right here in America.

It has to do with guns, regrettably once again, that issue in America, a continuing challenge for

legislators, for executives, and for all of us when it comes to keeping us safe and secure.

The two issues we're going to talk about this morning, the two events this morning,

related to firearms. We know that the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court this coming week is going

to be addressing another issue about whether or not bomb stocks, bomb stocks, these

advices that turn a semi-automatic weapon into one automatic weapon, whether those should be

subject to regulation by the ATF. That's coming up before our United States Supreme Court,

this coming week or argument on that. And we also know, we also know that just yesterday,

something significant happened with a major gun rights organization. When we come back when

to talk about what happened yesterday in a Manhattan jury courtroom, stay with us for that

all-important discussion.

We'll come back to our continuing discussion this morning. It is Saturday for very 24th,

2024, talking about all things law, government, and the aspiration for justice in America.

Significant news yesterday coming out of a New York courtroom, having to do with the NRA,

the National Rifle Association, and it's in battle leader Wayne Loppier. What does this come from?

What is the genesis for what happened just yesterday? A major case, a major case, a jury verdict,

is going to affect dramatically this major gun rights organization, certainly its leadership as well.

We know well that this particular lawsuit was brought way back in 2020, about almost three and a

half, almost four years ago. And initiated by the Attorney General of the state of New York,

her name is Latisha James. You've heard her before. Yes, this is the same government official,

the same civil prosecutor in the state of New York, responsible for enforcing New York state law,

who's also brought the most recent case involving Donald Trump, his sons, and that organization.

In that case involving valuations, we know that just yesterday the judge in that case,

Judge and Goran entered the final judgment, would have talked about that a little bit later on.

This is the same prosecutor, the same civil litigator, who brought this lawsuit,

discrete from apart from the case against the Trump organization and Donald Trump,

this one against the NRA. She charged that as a nonprofit group in New York since 1871,

responsible for following the rules and regulations of incorporation and of status during the state

of New York, identifying in the initial civil complaint a great number of financial troubles,

internal conflicts at all had led all had led to a year's long pattern of financial misconduct.

And even corruption, even corruption is what she has alleged during the course of this trial,

a week's long trial that just concluded yesterday, the jury, a jury, not a judge. In the other case,

Judge and Goran deciding the case, in this case, a jury after a week of deliberations,

found the group's former leader, Wayne LaPierre, you have heard of him in the past,

had in fact used NRA funds, funds as a part of the nonprofit group itself,

to do what to pay for some personal expenses, including things like vacations and luxury flights for

his relatives, rides on super yachts, jurors found that Wayne LaPierre and others involved with him

had misspent about $5.4 million, $5.4 million in organization funds. He's repaid some of that,

as he said during the course of the trial, but still is on the line for about $4.35 million.

Now, in addition to Wayne LaPierre, the leader, by the way, he resigned right before the start of

this trial. He's no longer in that position of responsibility, prompting their course of the trial

for the NRA lawyers, the lawyers for the company, for the association, to distance himself from

Mr. LaPierre. They were arguing that while he LaPierre had done some good things for the organization,

we talked a lot about second amendment issues here in this broadcast, his identity and his

extravagances, which I just described, including among other things, some Beverly Hills shopping

sprees was not, was not a part of the mission, the purpose of the NRA, not synonymous with the

group's mission and direction and focus. The lawyer for the group said the NRA is not Wayne LaPierre.

So right inside the trial itself, or the period of last couple of weeks, a division, if you will.

This is not a consolidated defense against the claims brought by the Attorney General.

This is a division among them. And sure enough, during the course of the trial, that became clear.

Beyond, beyond Wayne LaPierre in this major case, having been found responsible for his

mis-spending, his negligence, his purposeful misconduct, and even his corruption. Defendants

also included the former treasurer, his name is Wilson Phillips, and General Counsel's name is

John Frazier. They both also found by the jury to have failed in their duties to the organization,

blips among other things required to pay about $2 million. All of this, all of this coming out

of the case just yesterday, presented by Attorney General Letitia James, a great deal of very

specific information about the misuses of these funds, including things like the use of helicopters

to avoid traffic during trips to NASCAR races, showing that LaPierre sought reimbursement from

mosquito treatments, landscaping at his own house, all sorts of things like that during the

course of the trial. Why is this significant? Well, well, it plainly, plainly signals not only

the work and the function of an Attorney General responsible for enforcing state law,

that's we've talked about a lot on this broadcast in this and at least that other case involving

Donald Trump, but also also disclosed and revealed in this very public forum. Yes, that's right,

it's a public trial. The corruption, the fraud, the misconduct that that has been a part of this

association in recent years, an awful lot of people look at this and other difficulties inside

that organization. As the beginning of the end, if not the middle of the of the eventual demise

of the NRA, it still continues to be an entity that begins to be the subject of a lot of discussion

along the way. As the courtroom responded to all of this, of course, the NRA going to have to be

responsible for not only not only responding to the jury verdict, but also individuals, individuals

responsible for paying back the millions of dollars, millions of dollars misspent during the course

of this conduct by them for years and years and years. The senior vice president for law and policy

of a group called every town for gun safety said we're two months into 2024 and the NRA has already

managed to lose this trial, their long time leader and whatever political relevance it had left.

The verdict confirms what we've seen in recent elections in state legislatures and in

halls of Congress, the gun lobby, he said has never been weaker and indeed, indeed, to the extent

that we have, we have major issues with respect to guns in America, misuse, abuse of firearms,

the NRA's lobbying in Congress presumably has had a huge impact upon the failure of our federal

legislature, state legislatures as well to pass laws to impact, impact and address our gun problem

in America. We know as well that as much as that civil case going on and concluding just yesterday

in that Manhattan courtroom, we know that earlier in this month in February, there was another case,

another case, this is a criminal case pending in a Michigan courtroom and during the course of

this past month, Michigan jurors there in a criminal case, but 11 hours of deliberation in a

criminal case against woman named Jennifer Crumbly, C-R-U-M-B-L-E-Y, found guilty of involuntary

manslaughter for the gun rampage. The horrific event committed by her teenage son who carried out,

yes, that's right, the state's deadliest shooting more than two years ago. The trial unmistakably

since the time of his prosecution there by Michigan prosecutors and certainly since the time of

the return of this verdict, finding, convicting her in four counts of involuntary manslaughter,

one for each student her son killed in what once again is Michigan's deadliest school shooting ever.

Plainly, this is sort of a lightning rod for issues about parental responsibility in a time when

these cases all too frequent in our nation are involving guns and being carried out by minors.

It was perhaps the most high profile example of prosecutors seeking to hold parents responsible

for violent crimes committed by their children. There have been others, there have been others,

other charges of reckless conduct or neglect, kind of a larger push to identify accountability

inside these parents when they're suspected of enabling deadly violence by their children.

But the charges against Ms. Crumbly in particular were more serious and that's why this test case

is so very important along the way during the course of the trial, a lot of aggravating factors that

make this simply not a case involving indifference or or training ones back to what your son or

daughter is doing mostly sons in the history of our recent mass shootings by young people.

In the course of closing argument during the course of this case, the prosecutor emphasized the

severity of this charges and reflecting on the negligence, the horrific crime that resulted from

that incapacity, that decision made by the parents to not do anything when confronted with lots

and lots of indications. Ethan the son, I was already pled guilty to 24 charges, including first

to remurder. He was sentenced last year already. He is going to be standing the rest of his life

in prison without the possibility of parole, did not testify, did not testify in his mother's trial.

The father, James Crumbly, he is going to be tried separately in March. So his trial is still

coming up. But along the way, we know that in this trial of mother of of Jennifer Crumbly herself,

lots of indications that this was a not unique, but a case where an awful lot of facts indicated

they should have gotten not only signals about what their son was doing, his crisis situation,

but also their capacity to respond to it. The prosecutor has plainly presented a lot of evidence

that Miss Crumbly should have noticed that her son's distress was significant,

should have stopped him from committing this act of frankly just unspeakable violence there.

Said that the prosecutors along the way said that she and her husband

didn't do any one of a number of tragically small and easy things that they could have done

to prevent all this from happening. They focused in part upon Ethan's access to a firearm.

But Jerry's also had to wrestle with a lot of other information. They were shown messages that

Ethan sent to a friend in April of 2021, complaining of insomnia, some messages to this friend

paranoia hearing voices. They were also shown messages that as the jurors were that he sent to his

mother in March of 21, in which he suggested that their home was haunted by a demon. And his mother,

prosecutors pointed out during the course of the trial, didn't always respond to that.

Now in her testimony, Crumbly herself said that Ethan parents had joked for years about the house

being haunted, but there was even more beyond that. The government also showed messages,

exchanged between Crumbly and her husband, some colleagues, some friends also along the way,

suggested that Miss Crumbly had paid more attention to their two horses and an extra marital

fare than her son's needs and the attention that necessarily he should have been getting at the time.

Significantly, significantly, there was a meeting between Crumbly and school officials that took

place about two hours, just two hours before the attack, Crumbly and her husband

him to call to the high school after Ethan wrote troubling things on a math worksheet,

including the phrase, blood everywhere. Crumbly said that after a counselor shared concerns about

that event, those communications, they decided that her son could stay at school that day.

They did not search his backpack, which of course contained the pistol that he would eventually use

to effectuate this horrific mass shooting on his schoolmates. Beyond that, the teenager,

the young man, Ethan here had written about a plan to cause bloodshed. He had drawings of guns.

Please, for help regarding his mental health, all of that, all of that apart of the trial.

And why do I mention that? That's all grisly. It's all very, very graphic because it does underscore

the strength of this particular prosecution, and awful lot of people saying things like, well,

gee, does this open up responsibility liability in a criminal setting, maybe even a civil setting for

other parents? And the answer is, yes, it does indeed identify circumstances under which a

juror will find parents responsible, but I would offer that it does not open up the exposure

of parents if indeed there are some less significant, less significant events than the ones presented

in this particular trial. This is compelling evidence of parents, but an awful lot of information,

a lot of an indication that their son Ethan was not only in trouble, but planned to do exactly

what he did. And yes, indeed, the jurors, jurors in this case found that the parents will be held

responsible under these circumstances. More difficult cases will be situations where you don't have

this compelling, huge nature of information out there, huge information to support these four

counts of involuntary manslaughter guns in America, a lot of information, a lot of things going on in

our courts, the civil conviction, if you will, of the NRA and chief, it's chief Wayne La Pierre just

yesterday. This matter in Michigan, and we know once again that it's coming week on the 26th,

the Supreme Court is going to be determining whether or not bump stocks, bump stocks in America

should be regulated under federal law by the ATF bump stocks. Once again, these mechanisms that

turn semi-automatic weapons into machine guns, which are indeed, which are indeed in violation,

are illegal under federal law. A huge amount out there having to do with firearms in America,

just this past week, just this past month, we will see. If indeed all of this prompts our

legislature, as we have talked in the past, to do things, to remedy these things in a way that we

know will be effective. When we come back, when we talk more about other cases in our courts,

in America, stay with us for that all important discussion.

And we are back in this our final segment of our first hour here on Saturday morning,

February 24th, 2024. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for joining my producer Calvin,

who's right with me here in the studios of civic media here in downtown Waukesha.

We are once again as promised going to be bringing into our discussion my two good friends and

colleagues, Greg and Gray, who are right now in cable, Wisconsin. They're at the Berkabiner

cross-country ski race, the single largest cross-country ski race in North America,

talking with us in the next few moments here about what they're seeing, what they're experiencing

there. And also once again, as I said at the first time that we chatted with them this morning,

bringing together this notion that sports are a part of our lives. And this particular one,

having to the Berkabiner, the name of that coming out of some significant rule of law events,

some governance way back in 12.5, 12.6 in Norway, in Norway. But in 2024,

delighted that my friends, Greg and Gray are with me once again to join me in this segment to talk more

about what they're seeing on the ground right there in cable. Also in Hayward,

many, many people gathered together with this major sporting event that celebrates life

and the good things that America and the state of Wisconsin is all about. Gray,

Gray, glad to have you with me once again. Hey Mike, thank you. Thank you for coming on your show

today. Big G here with Gray here. And we're up in cable, Wisconsin. Thanks to the cable natural

history museum for providing us this broadcast venue this afternoon and representing WBZH

radio, the buzz of the north up here in Hayward. Thanks again, Jim. I really appreciate

letting us be on the show today. And man, boy, this event here tracks people worldwide. And I know

you were talking about how the history of the event and everything. So yeah, there's just

we're over to the trailhead yesterday at Montelmark area over there and right here.

Man, just all sorts of things going on. They got a great set up over there. Really a streamlined

event this year too. If you take Highway 63, I mean, there's no, they're busing everybody in.

They've really got it well organized. And you know, Mother Nature and where you're at,

Jim Don, and are you done at Waka Sharer, Madison, and where are you at? That's exactly right.

We are right here in Waka Sharer overcast, but no snow today. I guess no snow up there either,

but that highway between cable and Hayward in north, northwestern Wisconsin, just beautiful area

up there, passable, plainly, right, Greg, and also the support for this wonderful sporting event.

Yeah. Yeah. And there there is snow. I mean, it's amazing that you can be driving

three and then all of a sudden going by the trailhead there and they get a beautiful track. It's

one to three feet of manufactured snow. Amazing. And the temperature there, Greg, today for this

wonderful event is turning into a weather event for a moment here. Actually right around in the 30

degree mark, 30 low 30s today. So it's pretty decent condition to melt the snow today. The

participants will be comfortable. Very good. Yesterday I was in the 20s. So about, I mean, the

week has been 40s and 40s and mid 40s. So I mean, hats off to the people that manufactured

the snow and able to keep the snow conditions over there. So and Greg and Greg, you know, I know

we've got these major events going on today and we're going to have you back again. If you stay

with me next hour for a couple more discussions, talk with me a little bit about the children,

also youth involved in some of the activities this past week. This is a sport for the entire family

and certainly that's true of the Berkabiner there in northwestern Wisconsin there as well.

That's exactly right, Jim. They have events for the for the youth.

Any under 18. They've got an event called the the Barney Berkey. Yeah, the Barney Berkey is

traditionally has been a youth short and circuit this year. They had to do it as a fun run event.

But there's actually even under 10 waves that depart as part of the there's there's there's

junior Berkies that are still ski events this year. All of them for eight. There's 10 and under

and there's some pretty some pretty impressive skiers that that can claim the age of eight and

nine years old. I'm kind of blown away. Yeah, I don't think I mean, I don't think the track or

the conditions are any different than if we had a regular snowfall, nobody was really everybody

was really I think pretty satisfied with the track conditions and everything out there. So

why do that? I can say it tracks and part of the world. That's great. And part of the celebration

is to understand it's also I think you mentioned this before, Greg and Greg, the customing and also we've

got some canine involvement. Is that right? There's some dogs there as well. Also a huge part of

the celebration. Yeah, I'll actually be weighing in at the at the beginning of the next hour here

to talk about some of the crazy Thursday. But one of those is traditionally a ski jur event. Of

course, for those not familiar with ski jur that refers to a single cross country skier attached

to a single dog in kind of a cross between cross country skiing and sled dog racing. That this

year has turned into just a fun run event with your dog. But yeah, that would be the

little can across this year canine cross event as opposed to the normal the normal ski jur event

it would have been in years past. So is that the barker binder? That would be the barker binder. Exactly.

Perfect. Perfect. And again, reference to history, but also also an affirmation of

of the great involvement of our pets as well. And this this terrific event going on right now.

Totally up in the area. That sounds just great.

Table, you two guys, you'll stay with me again for next hour. I'd like to get back to a

couple of times next hour as well. Champ more about some of the local color there, the celebration.

And this important event again, not only in our history, but in world history as well.

Will you come back again next hour and chat with more about all this?

Absolutely, Jim. Thank you, Jim. Thanks again for having us on your show and thank you to our

sponsors Lakewood Cafe and Hayward on on Railroad Street. We've got the Lakeside Property Service,

the park falls Wisconsin, Advanced Printing and Hayward Wisconsin and River and Raines,

Wilderness Boltique in Hayward, Wisconsin. And spring to broadcast.

And another special thank you to the Cable Natural History Museum for hosting this media space

for us to broadcast from today. All good people, all good entities and all supporting what we're

doing here on the civic media radio stations and what you're broadcasting all about. They are

from Cable and Hayward in this wonderful part of our state. Thanks so much, gentlemen. We'll be back

and touch again very soon. Thank you, Jim. Wonderful. Good. Good. So, you know, as a part of our

our discussion every single Saturday morning, we also solicit calls. And that number, of course,

is 844-967-2789-844-967-278 and we've got just a minute or so. But we do have a color already

on the line, perhaps responding to some of our rule of law-related information. This morning,

I'm going to take the call from Rico. Rico, if you don't have a complete chance to discuss with you,

your issue, we'll do it at the top of the second hour. But Rico, glad to have you with me this morning

on our broadcast.

Am I on? You are on, Rico. Absolutely. Glad to have you with me. Go right, go to it.

My question now, do you want me to ask my question now, or should I wait to laugh at the top?

We've got about a minute or so, Calvin's telling me, so why don't you post your question now,

and I can ponder it then over the top of the hour. Okay, I'll close it. Go ahead.

Okay, I'll get to it quickly, Jim, because it does fall in line with what you were talking about

earlier. But I want to go to an earlier case that took place in Kenosha, Wisconsin,

over here, in particular, the Rittenhouse case. Yes. And what has baffled me, Jim, about this,

maybe you could help me understand, I've often wondered how did the judge Schroeder, I believe,

and I believe it was Mark Richards with Kyle's attorney, how did they beat that under 18 possession

of a fire arm for someone that was underneath 18 years old, because he was 17 years old,

and I've often wondered this. Sure, and you know what, great, great question, Rico. You know what,

I am going to take that up and we're going to talk a little bit more of the Kyle Rittenhouse matter

when we come back at the top of the next hour. Rico, thank you for your question this morning.

We'll chat about that at the top of our next stop.

Welcome. Grab your favorite morning beverage and join us for Morning Canolies with Jim Santel.

Sampling the news desserts of the week, here is your host, Jim Santel.

Welcome to this our second hour of our Saturday morning broadcast, Saturday, February 24th, 2024.

My name is Jim Santel. And along with my wonderful producer, Calvin, I'm here in the studios of WAUK

in downtown Waukesha, also taking your phone calls this morning at 844-967-2789. Delighted

to have you with me again this morning as we talk about great numbers of things having to do with

America and the aspiration for justice that all of us had from the state of Wisconsin throughout

our nation and deep throughout our world. Right before the break, we took a good phone call from

Rico, Rico calling in in connection with our discussion this morning about firearms, specifically

this finding earlier this month that Jennifer Crumbly, the mother of Ethan Crumbly, who has already

pled guilty to 24 counts of first degree murder in this horrific event in Michigan, found guilty

yourself for involuntary manslaughter for counts, one for each student that her son killed in

Michigan's deadly school shooting also talking yesterday about this verdict coming out of New York,

finding that the NRA and indeed Wayne Lapierre is former leader responsible for a huge amount of

misconduct and corruption, specifically in the area of financial integrity and the lack of

it. Rico asking about Kyle Rittenhouse, Kyle Rittenhouse, this case that we all recall well here in

Wisconsin and throughout our nation. Kyle Rittenhouse, of course, all this stemming from his killing two

men and wounding another with an assault weapon during the civil unrest that happened in Kenosha

following that 2020 police shooting of Jacob Blake. Lots of things to discuss here,

lots of things to unpack here related to the possession of the weapon, the acquisition of it,

where his parents were, those kinds of things, but along the way Rico asking how it is that

that Rittenhouse at the time, a juvenile, not at 18 years old, 17 was responsible for responding to

the charges against him in an adult court and indeed his lawyer during the course of the closing

arguments said my client was 17 years old, his actions should be charged and should be judged

as a 17 year old, although the narrow answer, although not the complete answer certainly is

at Wisconsin, is one of about three states, including Georgia, Texas, perhaps others out there,

where the law does require that the justice system or court system treat 17 year olds as adults

and a lot of disagreement about that, lots of legislation introduced to increase that again to

18, obviously we know that many, many things attend to one when you achieve that age of 18.

This is not one of them, and so Kyle Rittenhouse charged and brought into the adult court

facing those charges there in Kenosha. Lots of other issues, obviously related to Kyle Rittenhouse,

that we will not be addressing this morning, but can in fact a review down the road when we continue

as we always do to address this larger issue related to firearms in America and their impact,

the deaths that are caused by firearms when the First Amendment permits you to express your views

and to articulate those publicly. The Supreme Court now saying the Second Amendment permits you

not only to carry and use in your own home or weapon, but also now to go out into public,

that's the brewing case from just last year or so, finding that you do have a constitutional right

to carry a weapon in public and subject to some regulations around the edges, but not completely.

Lots and lots of firearms related issues to discuss not only the wake of the Kyle Rittenhouse

prosecution, but all of these other matters and the Supreme Court case coming up for oral argument,

just this coming week. We are going to turn now to another another matter also much in the public

attention just this past week. It comes out of the Alabama Supreme Court. You have seen the headlines,

you read the news about all of this as well. A new front, a new front in the legal debate about when

human life begins. The Supreme Court there in Alabama says that embryos created and stored in a

medical facility have to be considered under the constitution of the state's laws governing harmful

death as children. The ruling that happened just this past week obviously refocuses attention on

issues of privacy rights, reproductive rights. We know well that in the wake of the Supreme Court's

decision in dobs and opinion issued by Ritten by Sam Alito. A lot of focus now upon what's going on

in state courts, including Alabama, huge amount having to do with what the legislators around our

nation are doing. And indeed referendums as well in many states as well, determining what in fact

the scope of the Second Amendment rights are. The Supreme Court in Bruins saying that in order to

justify, justify all these kinds of things that privacy rights no longer implicit in the constitution

and that they are matters for just position by other courts, presumably including, including

Alabama. I know this is not specifically in Alabama and abortion rights case, but it certainly has

tendrils and connections directly back and forth to it, undeniably coming in the wake of the dobs

decision, finding once again that with respect to reproductive rights, privacy rights and the

constitution no longer there, the decision in Roe versus Wade way back in 1973 no longer the

law of this land. So what are the ruling say? Well, the ruling itself somewhat narrow lies to three

couples who sued the Center for Reproductive Medicine. That's a fertility clinic in mobile

Alabama for inadvertently destroying their embryos. The plaintiffs in that case arguing that they

were entitled to punitive damages under 1872 law and 1872 law in Alabama called the wrongful death

of a minor act. A two-lorist state courts had disagreed with the notion that that covers embryos.

And they said that embryos were in fact neither people nor children. Those are the lower court

decisions coming out of Alabama. Guess to the state Supreme Court? They reversed these rulings

just this past week saying that the embryos fall squarely within the Alabama definition of minors

and the negligence lawsuits brought by these plaintiffs could proceed. This is not now a determination

that the plaintiffs are entitled to judgment in their favor, but simply that they have reached

the threshold, they've gone beyond the threshold to enable them to litigate this further in the

state district court. On Wednesday, of course, as you know as well, lots of clinics including the

IVF, the clinic at the University of Alabama, Birmingham, announced it because of this because of

the finding that now embryos are people and children who are presumably subject to statutory protection,

arguably constitutional protection as well. The IVF clinic at the University of Alabama

announced its pausing fertility treatments to explore the implications of the courts ruling,

many other clinics also doing the same. The significance of that is, of course, that no one knows exactly

how broadly this will pass in the nation in Alabama, but freezing embryos we know is a fairly widespread

practice and lots of things having to do with standard cycle of in vitro fertilization, hormones

and sperm ejected into them with the goal of creating viable embryos for implantation. The process

itself, much on the docket of the Supreme Court and of lower courts as well. If the laws now prevent

providers in Alabama from freezing embryos, patients may face the medically challenging,

and frankly the financially draining prospect of many more of these cycles of working with

the embryos and working with the sperm implantation, all those kinds of things. A lot of

a lot of people say that it will disproportionately affect lower income people, people of color,

people in the LGBT community. The ruling may therefore also restrict ways that reproductive

medicine is practiced in Alabama. Again, I'll write away, it may in fact criminalize or set a

very high civil penalty for standard procedures that many of the doctors there do every day. That's

the reason why doctors and clinics around Alabama are now pulling back and no longer offering

these services and determining that maybe, maybe the decision by the Alabama Supreme Court

prohibits them from engaging this practice at all. Now, the question of course is when we think

about reproductive rights and reproductive options here, the question, will this go back to the

Supreme Court? We know it on the Constitution. Yes, there's a mechanism for a highest court in the

state of any state to have its decision appealed and reviewed arguably by the Supreme Court. If it

decides to grant such a rare eye, unlikely this will happen in this case, probably a kind of a

narrow option for that. It's because the case hinges on the state Supreme Court's interpretation

of a state statute. Again, very much related plainly to what the Supreme Court said in

Dobbs in the past, but nonetheless, a focus on the state Supreme Court and its determination

both the state statute says. The state Supreme Court, again, directed the parties to go back to

the lower court to litigate this case, including the suggestion that other legal avenues be explored.

The Supreme Court decision obviously seeking to establish in many of its language as well,

some directive, some mechanisms for addressing this issue generally. The Supreme Court holding the

text of the wrongful death of a minor act is clear, applies to all pre-born children, including

again the plaintiffs embryonic pre-born children. The legal status of embryo is human persons

now in the part of our national debate along the way, along the way, in addition to this

finding by the Alabama Supreme Court, having these implications for not only privacy rights,

but the very identification of when life begins, what is a human being? What does that mean in terms

of how we understand life and how the law will respond to all those things now back on the table?

They've never left. Along the way, we have the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court also

writing what's called a concurrence, and along the way, the Supreme Court Chief Justice Tom Parker

cites verses from the Bible and Christian theologians in this concurring opinion. Again, he agrees

with the result in this case, but he says this. He says, human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed

without incurring the wrath of a holy God, who views the destruction of his image as an affront

to himself, as an affront to himself. The concurring opinion, of course, doesn't carry the force

of law. This is a concurrence. It's not the judgment in and of itself, but the language of the judge,

Chief Judge Parker used is significant. He argued in his opinion that the court was merely enforcing

the Alabama State Constitution, which according to all the reporting there, amended in 2018,

to recognize the sanctity of unborn life. And so he makes reference to that. He also says that the

principal is deep roots that reach back to the creation of man in the image of God. He quotes the

book of Genesis. And he sprinkles his opinion with a litany of religious sources. Those include

Christian theologians, Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin, and others, including including the prophet Jeremiah.

All of that, all of that, a part of the discussion now going forward, coming out of this major decision,

coming out of the Supreme Court of the State of Alabama just this past week. We will discuss

that again as the Supreme Court itself, the Federal Supreme Court addresses these issues down the

road as well. The debate about privacy rights, about embryos, about when life begins,

legislatively, in our courts and in our public discourse continues in our nation. Stay with us.

When we are back here in our Saturday morning broadcast, we are also especially honored today

to have my friends and colleagues in cable, Wisconsin, in that part of the nation and also our state

in Hayward. They're at the Berkabiner cross-country ski race. And yes, there is a connection, as we've

always said, between the Berkabiner historically, this event we described at the start of our first hour,

a number of minutes, moments ago, involving Prince and then King Hakan, this amazing historical

event where the members of the royal guard, if you will, ensure that the young Prince was

scurried away from the rival tribe and lived to survive. And focusing upon their commitment to their

government and the possibility, the possibility of the rule of law coming forward. And indeed,

we also know here's the other connection with this sporting event happening right now in cable

in Hayward. And that is at King Hakan from Prince Hakan, it goes on. And it becomes one of the most

significant kings in Norway's history, consolidates this position in 1240s, obviously, and adult at

this time. And yes, he focuses on the supremacy of the kingship, but also identifies along the way

the things that a leader should do in terms of establishing the rule of law in his country.

He initiated Prince then King Hakan, a number of legal reforms, which were crucial, really very

important for the development of justice in Norway as we know it to this day. His new law,

as it was called, written about 1260, a breakthrough, a breakthrough, according to all historians for

both the idea and the practice of public justice, this notion that you're accountable to the community

and should in fact be viewed through the community and through the public light as opposed to

traditional concepts that it occurred in Norway and many other countries, virtually all countries

probably, having it with feuds and revenge. And that's kind of violence as a way of promoting

some sense, imperfect, incomplete, and just downright wrong justice. The influence of the of

the reforms that judge that the judges there under King Hakan established could not be overstated.

He writes something called the king's mirror. It's an educational text. It was tended for his son

Magnus and it codifies many of these legal reforms that he put into place when he was the king of

Norway that last in many ways to this day into 2024. And I dare say my friends in cable that the

tradition of King Hakan continues right now where you are in our state where we have got not only

the capacity under a rule of law, under our system of justice, but also to enjoy life, liberty,

the pursuit of happiness. And that's what's going on right now in cable and Hayward. I'm delighted

to be joined once again by my colleagues here in civic media. Greg Anderson and Greg Grisel,

Greg and Gray, thanks for being with me once again. Thank you so much for having us Jim.

Happy to be here broadcasting on behalf of WBZA for the civic media network. And I agree. I can't

imagine that Skervald and Torstein had a recreational skiing event in mind as the eventuality when they

when they rescued the would be king Hakan, but it is perhaps the perfect expression of what they

had hoped for. Of course, they couldn't have imagined he would be codifying a whole system of

as much of a philosopher as a king talking about what rule meant rather than just doing it the way

that so many kings and perhaps failures of kings did. He actually thought about the job.

Like I said, perhaps a recreational skiing event wasn't what they had in mind, but I think it

serves as an excellent expression of exactly what they were hoping for when they made that desperate

flight to save that print. Absolutely. So we think all the time about the ways in which we build

on history, right? Even right here in Wisconsin. I know as well, and Gray, perhaps you can talk to

this somewhat as well, that it was based upon that history, that initial saving of the young

prince and again his work to establish the rule of law there in Norway. That was the inspiration

many years ago. It was back in the 1970s for the creation of Arbrookabiner here in the state of

Wisconsin. Indeed. Go ahead and tell me more about that. Well, it was it was it would have been

roughly 1974. There have been pauses, I believe. I might be off by about a year or two on that,

but of course, this being the 50th, the math, the math works out quite well. Like like Skervald and

Torstein, they had a rather a rather tangible and definitive reason to be skiing the way they

skied across the the the mountains, the snowy mountains of Norway in in Birchbark leggings.

Honestly, as I sit here and think about it and you're taking the area and the type of people,

both myself and Greg are from this area near cable, perhaps, but the type of people who occupy

these areas and the type of people who would gather for something like a ski event.

Frankly, it's the kind of place that any reason to express that sort of camaraderie togetherness,

that sense of community, you look for any excuse you can possibly find to engage in that sort of

event and engage in that sort of togetherness. So something isn't a flight through that sort of

forest and this sort of forest that we have here. The fact that it was at all possible to recreate

that sort of event is more than enough reason to gather around such a small area with so many people

and triple quadruple, even more than that, the population of the area, just to enjoy that people

agree that it's worth celebrating. Gatherings of people, especially in your life, are usually for

only the best and the worst of reasons. So something as as celebratable, if you will, as this event,

it makes a great reason for the town like this small as it may be to explode and to become such a

positive place to be. Absolutely. And speaking of that, again, we celebrate, we revel in the

sportsmanship. Yes, we revel in the history of you and I and I think all of our listeners do as well.

But there is an economic consequence, right? I believe that both Hayward and cable wonderful places,

beautiful parts of our state, both under regularly a thousand people in population, right? Even

I think cable is even perhaps even smaller than that. Now we've got descended on this wonderful area,

as you said before, you and Greg said before, the people from around the world, not just around

their nation coming in. It has a certain economic impact as well, correct? And one could assume that

any time you see a participant on the track, there's likely between one and as many as four

support personnel, you know, not necessarily holding water bottles and everybody's not bringing

their trainer, but those children, these are a lot of normal area residents. So when you see one

person, that speaks to the presence of two to maybe even five people are more in the Hayward area.

And of course, this makes it the single most important economic event in the cycle of the year,

especially in a year like this when there's been no snowmobiling economy to speak of, which

snowmobiling economy is really half the months and for the non snowy months, it's the ATVs and

UTVs. So this event has come at a perfect time. I'm kind of sad to a little bit anxious to consider

what the economy of the area might have looked like had the Bergerbiner not been possible,

which is just another accolade for all of the people who moved and made the snow.

It's definitely a huge. It's done the hotels, all the businesses, and they basically planned

for this event months in advance. So if you want to get a motel room up here, you've got to call

probably around that six to 12 months before to get a motel room up in this area for this event.

To the economic impact specifically, actually, it would be, boy, it's really the maker break.

It's actually Wisconsin just approved applications for disaster relief in counties affected by the

weather like we've had this winter because of how drastically affected those economies are by a lack of

snow. So that if anything is quite indicative of how important it is that snowmobiling and events

like the Bergerbiner be possible, we are extraordinarily thankful to all the efforts of everybody

involved. The American Bergerbiner ski foundation, all of the groom or crew and everybody else involved,

it really, it's impossible for us to know for sure what it would look like without this event,

but we're very glad we don't. And what it would have looked like this year without a Bergerbiner.

And plainly, for those folks who are thinking about going up next year,

51st is plainly 2025 and you folks, the two of you are going to be back again a little bit later

in this hour to tell me more about what you're seeing in there in cable and Hayward, this wonderful

event and we'll look forward to that for the discussion my friends. Come back right after this brief break.

And we are back in our continuing discussion of all things law and government and the aspiration

for justice in America. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for joining Calvin. All of us here

on the broadcast stations of civic media, including those at WBZH in the Hayward area. We're going to

be returning at the end of this hour to my friends and colleagues, Gray and Greg up to the Bergerbiner

for some final thoughts about these connections between justice and America and sporting in America.

It is not, it is not an attenuated or distant connection. We celebrate life. We celebrate liberty

and the pursuit of happiness in the state of Wisconsin and in our nation. We have spoken this morning

about a number of very serious issues. We're talking about firearms in America, this NRA verdict in

Manhattan, just this past week, the Michigan prosecution. We had a caller about Kyle Rittenhouse

also talking just before the break about this major Alabama decision. We have not yet fully

digested the impact of that finding that embryos are in fact people, part of the overall position

there by those who would advocate those kinds of things, plainly definition of life all important.

Significant, of course, that in that Alabama case, a court concluding that conception

is in fact, can in fact take place in the laboratory. The strongest and presumably most immediate

of impact of the decision will be on fertility patients, however, trying to get pregnant,

not, not on women seeking to end their pregnancy. So that among the other

incongruities, if you will, the consequences of the decision that may or may not be consistent

with the advocacy that are out there generally, we also know in the wake of that decision of just

this past week that the attorney general of the state of Alabama has said that the attorney general's

office has no intention of prosecuting providers of in vitro fertilization IVF or their families

who use frozen embryos that are now are now considered children. That may provide some solace,

some comfort to medical clinics and doctors, others out there. But once again, it raises issues

that we have not been thinking about before all of this again in the wake of a dobs in the wake

of our national debate now about what is life, about what privacy rights are all about, the right

of women and I would offer men as well to control their bodies and to make decisions premised upon

the privacy rights that have been in part of this nation. At least since 1973, actually going

back way to 1965, arguably even before that, before that in our constitution. Supreme Court has

also been speaking as you know well a lot about academics and that's our third area from major

focus this morning. Some significant issues coming out of the decision last year. This case finding

that it is no longer legal, it is no longer constitutional for admissions councils and mission

officers to assess race in terms of deciding who's going to be a part of their incoming classes.

We know those cases coming out of Harvard and North Carolina, students for very admissions,

the plaintiffs in those cases, but applying again to private universities and colleges and public

alike and changing, changing the atmosphere, the geography of the way in which our education

system works. One of the questions, of course, as we are now in the midst of high school students

applying for college, what is the impact of that on their applications? This is the first class.

It is going to be working in the wake of that all-important decision. We predicted that time that

although this decision was important, significant, changing, changing more than a quarter century of

tradition and practice in our nation, that maybe in the end it would not have a huge, huge impact,

but we're still waiting to see what the incoming class of 2024, the class, if you will, of 2028,

when they graduate, perhaps beyond, what that will have, what kind of impact that case will have

upon them. Certainly some important notes along the way, some anecdotal support for the notion

that students and their counselors are appropriately invoking this determination, this statement by

the Supreme Court in June of last year, that indeed while you can't address race overtly, students

who are applying can, in fact, submit essays and submit statements that reflect their own experience

as people of, of immutable characteristics, including particular races, and so an awful lot of

increasing evidence, anecdotal, that there are students out there taking the Supreme Court at its

word as they should, announcing the law of the land and finding, finding ways in which they will

not only present their applications in the strong and affirmative way in which they should be

presented, but they will also identify for those officials ways in which we can continue the

all-important work of establishing diversity on our college and university campuses. So here are

some stories about there, Astrid Delgado. First wrote her college application essay about a death

and her family. In the wake of the Supreme Court decision, knowing that what they said, but they said,

she reshaped it around a Spanish book that she read as a way to connect to her Dominican heritage.

A great story that is, DeShane Curley wanted to leave his indigenous background out of his essay

for his applications to college, but he reworked it to focus on an heirloom necklace that reminded him

in his account of his home on the Navajo reservation. The first draft of Jail Hollingsworth's essay

explored her love for chess, appropriate in an essay. The final draft of Ms. Hollingsworth's essay

focusing on the prejudice between her Korean and Black American families and the financial hardships

that she overcame. All three of those students, again, anecdotally, finding ways, appropriate ways,

legal ways, lawful ways, significant ways to ensure that they have access to our nation's

colleges and universities. We know as well Sophie Desmoulins, who is Guatemalan, lives in Sedona,

Arizona, wrote her college essay with a court's ruling specifically in mind. She said her personal

statement explored among the things how her indigenous features affected her self-esteem,

but a great affirmation that is for all of this. And our experience volunteering with the Mayan

people helped her build her confidence and embrace her heritage. That's what it's all about in

America. Julia Nguyen, a child of Vietnamese immigrants in Blocsy, Mississippi, rewrote her essay

making her more aware of how her family's upbringing shaped her. She said she felt more proud

to have this personal statement because of the affirmative action case. And so some anecdotal

support there for the notion that while the law has changed, changing the ways of which officers

on our college campuses can address students wisely, thoughtfully, appropriately in an affirmation

of who they are and this focus not only upon diversity in our campuses, but the good and wonderful

education that they can in fact and should get should not be deprived of them or to anyone

based upon immutable characteristics in those applications. We also know just this past week,

some additional language coming out of Yale this time following in the tradition of Dartmouth

in February that the admissions officers there had found that hundreds of students from

lower socioeconomic backgrounds who had solid scores on the SATs and other entrance exams

had declined to submit them because they felt they felt they fell far too below some perfect scores

and Dartmouth now going back in the opposite direction. This past week, Yale University will once

again require standardized test scores for admission for students applying to enter in the fall of 2025

becoming again the second Ivy League school to abandon the test optional policies that have been

widely embraced during COVID and other situations. This Remcord decision, last year banning this race

conscious admission, many of people experts predicted that those test optional policies would

become even more widespread. In fact, in fact, in an unpredictable turn of events, Yale, Dartmouth,

other places, recent research questioning whether these test optional policies actually hurt the

very students they were meant to help fascinating, fascinating events in the air of academics all

in the wake of the Supreme Court decision of just last June, presumably more universities and

colleges looking to these kinds of experiences that Dartmouth and the officials at Yale are now

re-embracing requiring standardized test scores for admission as a way of ensuring

once again diversity on our college campuses. Lots of things happening to do with academics there

as we continue our discussion. Delighted as always to have callers calling into our Saturday

Morning broadcast, Joe, delighted to have you with me once again this morning. Your comment,

your question, your observation. Thank you, Jim. I think a fascinating discussion. I would like

to see if you had talked at all about the world of legacy admissions, particularly to the highly

desirable Ivy League colleges and the number of students there who daddy donated and so they've

gotten in. I would also like to hear what your reaction is to colleges and I've heard of this

out of Tulane and Stanford I suspect it's in other schools where if your mother or father is a

professor at that campus, you, there you go, you got an end to Stanford or Tulane and I know that

there are, for example, professors. I know from Tulane that are making the decision to stay in

in New Orleans, even though things are rocky with climate change, they're simply because of

what an incredible deal it will be for their sons when their sons are of college age. So would

you like to talk a little bit about, you know, the, I mean, when we think about diversity,

jeez, if your dad donated to the school, why should that give you a leg up? Why don't they just

donate out of the goodness of their heart rather than to smooth an entrance for their children?

Thanks a lot, Jim. Absolutely, Jim. You're getting your reaction. Absolutely. Always appreciate

your comments, your observations, and yes, indeed, let's go back to this decision coming out of

the Supreme Court just last year that talked in many ways and they invoked the words of

Sandra Day O'Connor who said way back when, when they reaffirmed the capacity of school officials

to incorporate race into considerations, Sandra Day O'Connor written, well, maybe 25 years from

now, we will no longer be in that situation. Maybe there will be a circumstance in America where

we no longer will have to look at race, a concept that the Chief Justice has sometimes rearticulated

in the voting rights area. I think many of us, most of us, presumably not all of us would recognize

that race continues to be a significant issue in our nation and that yes, indeed, for the purpose

of diversity, for the purpose of diversity, all those factors should be considered why and lots

of invocations here. Brown versus Board of Education says, what says, I am a better student.

The atmosphere is better. If indeed, I'm sitting next to, I'm in a class, I'm in a study group

of someone who doesn't look like me, whose background is different than mine, whose experience

economically, socially, politically is different. All that diversity is very, very good to your point,

Joe, when there is a decision that's premise not upon that, that melting pot, if you will, which

was what America is all about, what our universities and colleges should be all about,

is premise upon a leg up. That is the legacy admissions. We'll focus on those in particular

that I will get into that university or college because I have a member of my family, a mother,

father, and uncles, somebody else out there who's already been there. Maybe this donations issue

also very significant. That is not consistent, right, with the notion that we're looking for

ultimate diversity. And even the decision by the Supreme Court said, we're still committed to that

fundamental notion, Brown versus Board of Education. It certainly would seem. It certainly

would seem that if one of the considerations, if whether or not you have a relative who is

previously attended, whether that relative may or may not have dominated for a library or an

extension of a building, that sort of thing, that's not one of the immutable characteristics that

promote that Brown versus Board of Education broad sense of community and the kind of thing that

we would envision for an academic setting that is raucous and it is testing ideas that are

controversial and good and offensive and not offensive. All those kinds of things that an

academic institution should be all about, all those kinds of things are promoted when you've

got people who are there in the class because of the diversity they bring. I would offer, I think,

to your good point, Joe, implicit in your question or comment that legacy is not one of those

immutable characteristics. I don't pretend to know all about how provost and economic advisors

and officials on college campuses deal with all those issues. There may be great pressures to do

that, but it certainly is at least seemingly, superficially inconsistent with the Supreme Court's

decision, even of just last year. Great comment, great question as we think more about education

in America. When we continue with our discussion this morning, we're now going to do a few updates,

do a few updates on things we've talked about recently. We know from just this past week the

discussion that we had on the Saturday morning broadcast to that. Donald Trump, Donald Trump imposed

a judgment against him by a judge in Goran just yesterday, finally entering the formal judgment

in the wake of his determination of earlier last week, finding a, an overall assessment of about

$450 million significantly. A lot of people looking at the economics of that right now.

The amount is going up by $87,502 each day until he pays. We talked last week about the bond

option. We talked last week about other things and also the time is significant here.

And we also know from just some reporting this past week, the Latisha James. Yes,

the same Latisha James who prosecuted the NRA case is also stating just this past week that she

may all go after his physical assets there in New York, buildings, other properties as a way of

executing on this judgment. We've got more coming up here on our Saturday morning broadcast including

going back to Hayward and Cable for the Brookabiner. Stay with us for that additional discussion this morning.

We are back here in our Saturday morning broadcast. Thank you for joining me and my wonderful

producer Calvin. We are here in Waukeshaw but we are broadcasting throughout the state of

Wisconsin and a special feature of our broadcast this Saturday morning. I'm joined by my two

colleagues and friends Gray and Greg who are there in Cable and they're reporting to us and providing

us with information about this wonderful Brookabiner cross country ski race, the largest cross

country ski race in North America. Gray, Greg, glad to have you with me once again for yet another

report on the significant things going on there. Sporting and also affirming the good things that we

do here in America, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I suspect there's a good deal of

happiness there in your area this morning and throughout the week. Yes indeed thanks so much for

having us on today Jim and I did want to just shout out a special series of thank yous to advanced

printing of Hayward, River and Rain, Wellness, Boutique of Hayward, Lakewoods Cafe of Hayward,

and Lakeside Property Management Services of Park Falls making this broadcast possible,

allowing us to be here to talk to you today and an extra special thank you to the Cable Natural

History Museum to use their spaces of media broadcasting area today. Yeah thank you to you Jim

for letting us come on your show today. Delighted to have you both here with me and again what a

what a tremendous event this is for the state of Wisconsin. Lots of lots of really neat cultural

things going on there. We talked already about the diversity of people who are there, all ages,

all national origins, races, skiers from 49 states, the District of Columbia, 20 countries I believe

you told me and perhaps even more than that. What a great affirmation we are. It's incredible

that this event is even going on this year. Last year at this time we had a hundred inches of snow

on the ground and this year is no mother nature hasn't been kind to us with the

they've actually manufactured a beautiful loop track here right in cable here at the

Tellmark right at the trailhead there. That has been just wonderful and now today's

tradition is usually the big ski from the trailhead from Tellmark cable with scots and all the way

to here with Wisconsin. It's about a 30 file, about 34 cuts. So but we'll be on the loop track

there and there's still a lot of events going on. Isn't that right Greg? Throughout the day yes

indeed and I mentioned the the 2018 American Olympic gold medalist from the 2018 Winter Olympics

will be participating today. Jesse Diggins will be on the track making it look easier up up here

in cable. So I want to ask the two of you as you're there throughout the day. I'm jealous. I

suspect many of our listeners are as well. You are plainly broadcasting as you said from this

wonderful facility. It's hosting us today. Are you out there? Are you participating in the events

yourselves? Oh certainly not. There may have been a time in my life when such a thing would have

been possible but I was not interested in that sort of athletics and I'm not I was kind of inspired

but you know that was way back in my younger years. I'm in my high fifties now so I figured well

but although you see skiers of all ages out there. I see some people that are 75 years old all the

way down to probably what 14, 15 years old. Younger than that even eight or nine but suffice to say

well we well we wouldn't stand out on necessarily confident enough in that fact to test our theories.

Good and and again never never never ever too old to be out there sporting and a very young

person you are and we'll look for it maybe in 2024 we'll do this again next year again. I

delighted to have you with me on this broadcast. Let's make plans do this again and I'm going to

expect that the two of you will get your equipment there and be out there maybe doing some

reliable most Calvin others there will be able to put this together such a way that we can actually

hear you as you're participating. How's that for an aspiration? If I've got if I've got to put

this equipment on and ski with it I'm going to bring you with me so you bet we'll be on your show

next year if that's happening. That's great gentlemen any further comments as we conclude

your wonderful reporting and coverage there from cable. I think I think we've done quite well

enough today for for what we had planned. I think you've done fantastically to allow us to broadcast

your fantastic listenership about what's happening here in cable and in Hayward Wisconsin today.

I would just ask that anybody who sounds like interested in participating or attending the event

quite frankly with how much skiing is taking place. If you're within a civic media listening range

right now you could probably make your way to Hayward today and get here before the skiing is finished

so if you're curious make your way on up to Hayward make a weekend trek of it it would be a great

time for anybody to occur or to happen upon the city of Hayward town of Hayward this weekend.

These events started seven in the morning go all day and yeah it's great to see the great

to see how excited the winners are when they're up on the podium there and announcing the awards

and stuff so a great event come on out they get a they get streamlined parking they can bust you

right up to the site so it's a great great setup and great part of the American worker

buy-in or cut-edge cross-country ski race. There you go not too far to travel I know and I've

been up in that part of the our wonderful state before I think it's about five and a half hours

or so from where we are kind of in southeastern Wisconsin it is doable so get up there to see not

only Gray and Greg but all the other wonderful people there part of the Berkabiner gentlemen thanks

so much for joining me this morning looking forward to being in touch with you before before next

year at this time but certainly next year we'll do this again. Yes sir. Thank you so much Jim it's

been a pleasure to be here here at the cable Berkabiner media space and on your show this morning

thank you so much for having us. Luke was take care gentlemen have a good day and in our final

minutes again consistent with our theme this morning of the ways in which we participate in life

and liberty and the pursuit of happiness here we're also going to talk again about a couple more

things just some updates in our remaining minutes here what's going on in the courts of America

we're still waiting we're still waiting for the United States Supreme Court to tell us

what it's going to do with this application by Donald Trump presently running for the presidency

of the United States of America he has requested actually 14 days ago this coming Monday two weeks now

pending before the Supreme Court his review of the decision that finds that he is not immune from

prosecution decisions made by the lower courts at DC Court of Appeals the district court as well

that decision is not a difficult one. I own assessment is the longer this takes two things happen

one is it's probably worst news for Donald Trump because what it means is that there probably

is some discussion going on inside the Supreme Court maybe they're really writing concurrences denying

his application and that's what's going on but it does take more time and as we've said previously

every day that passes is a day before Tanya Chutkin can reschedule this matter and get this case

again the major theme of 2024 timing tiktok and so we're still waiting for that decision

Supreme Court again going to be entertaining some oral arguments this coming week as I said before

in the bumpstack issue many more cases nine more oral arguments coming up in March got about 60

cases pending before it right now and we also know that in the coming week or so other attention

is going to be focused upon the other case the other federal case that's the one pending in Florida

they can't be being presided over by judge ilean can and she's got a couple of things in front of

her that are not yet before the court of appeals having to do with the names of witnesses having

to do with secret government filings she's going to be having a hearing having a hearing this coming

week to determine what is going to be happening there including including a trial date there as well

next week we're going to be talking more about some more international issues that we

preface today Brazil Pakistan Germany and yes indeed England come back next week for that

discussion about those international rule of law issues including including as we did today

references to Norway history and the aspiration for justice across our planet thanks for joining me

this morning everybody