Gary Witt, president and CEO of the Pabst Theater Group, sits down with Dan Shafer for an extended conversation, backstage at the Riverside Theater for an exclusive video podcast.

Gary Witt is one of the most interesting people in Milwaukee to talk to. He always speaks his mind, he always has a lot to say, and he brings a perspective that exists outside of the typical circular conversations this city seems to be constantly having.

For the last 24 years, Witt has led what’s now called the Pabst Theater Group, helping oversee the transformation of the Pabst Theater, Riverside Theater, Turner Hall Ballroom, and so much more. He’s been one of the central figures in the revitalization of downtown Milwaukee in the 21st century, and for someone in his position, he is remarkably unguarded about what he has to say about … pretty much everything.

“I’m not here to keep things status quo,” he said. “I’m here to talk about how to make things better.”

Witt has been in the news recently because of his staunch opposition to a proposal that’s been out there to potentially tear down the Miller High Life Theatre to build a new convention center hotel. That concept was one of the conclusions drawn in a recent report from Hunden Partners put forth by the Wisconsin Center District. The Pabst Theater Group took over much of the booking and operations of the Miller High Life Theater in 2022, so perhaps some of that opposition is to be expected, but this goes well beyond that. Witt accuses Wisconsin Center District CEO Marty Brooks of having his “thumb on the scale” with this report, questioning the very validity of the “study,” saying it had a preferred outcome all along.

“Stop calling it a study. It was Marty Brooks’ request to get a hotel built because his ego is so large that in the final two years of his contract, instead of the board giving him the guidance of taking his final two years and hiring someone to take the baton from him and work toward the future, Marty has been entrusted with the next 20-30 years of $300-400 million of debt that hotel will cost us, that, long after he’s gone and sunning his buns in Florida, we’ll be stuck with taxpayer debt for building a hotel that will likely kill the hotel industry in the city.”

While we talk at length about this discussion around this concept of a plan and why it’s misguided — “We can’t afford errors in Milwaukee because we have too many things wrong,” he said — this conversation is about much more than Witt’s criticism of this particular proposal, or the High Life Theatre in general, or even the future of downtown at large.

“I’m tired of development downtown. Anyone will tell you we’re losing population in the city of Milwaukee, and we’re not losing population from a bunch of white people who are moving into The Couture, we are losing population from people in the poverty level who cannot find living in this city sustainable. I have distrust and disdain for our leaders of today who don’t take on the “p word” — poverty — and look at real world solutions.”

Along with talking about what’s happening with the Miller High Life Theatre, we talked about the bigger picture, and whether downtown Milwaukee has arrived at another inflection point. We also talked about the new venue downtown, Landmark Credit Union Live. We talked about independent music venues and helping form NIVA (National Independent Venue Association), dealing with Ticketmaster and Live Nation, the convention and hotel business in Milwaukee, the history of leadership at the Wisconsin Center District, and a whole lot more.

As the conversation unfolded, we also talked about things like regional transportation and its impact on the metro area’s economy, challenges with Mitchell Airport (other than the actual Recombobulation Area, of course), and Milwaukee leaders not focusing enough on fighting poverty.

Witt also had a few especially critical things to say about philanthropy from this generation of Milwaukee’s business leaders — “Get the f**k out there and start writing some f*****g history and stop putting your name on buildings and s**t,” he said — so be sure to stick around until the end of the podcast for that.

Witt has a whole lot to say about a great many things — takes on takes on takes, truly. But he is someone who cares deeply about Milwaukee and this city’s future, and his unique perspective is always genuinely thought-provoking.

I’ve had these longer conversations with Gary a number of times, and they always go in some unpredictable directions, and this is no different. So please enjoy this conversation with Gary Witt.

Let’s recombobulate.

Find the following topics throughout the podcast (times approximate):

* 2:00: Conversation begins: “I’m not here to keep things status quo. I’m here to talk about how to make things better.”

* 5:00: On the Wisconsin Center District-commissioned study and Witt’s opposition to the concept of tearing down the High Life Theatre for a convention center hotel

* 19:00: Digging in to the Hunden Partners report and the history of leadership at the Wisconsin Center District

* 33:00: Why the Miller High Life Theatre is unique in Milwaukee and Wisconsin’s live event landscape

* 44:00: Is downtown Milwaukee at another inflection point?

* 49:00: Regional transportation and the spatial mismatch of jobs in the Milwaukee metro area

* 56:00: How this generation of philanthropists in Milwaukee’s business community needs to step up

* 1:00:00: On Milwaukee’s newest music venue, Landmark Credit Union Live

* 1:05:00: On Ticketmaster and forming NIVA

The Recombobulation Area is a 19-time Milwaukee Press Club award-winning opinion column and online publication founded by longtime Milwaukee journalist Dan Shafer. The Recombobulation Area is now part of Civic Media.

Video filmed by Max Martinson. Editing and additional production by Jennie Brand.

Dan Shafer is a journalist from Milwaukee who writes and publishes The Recombobulation Area. In 2024, he and the publication joined Civic Media, where he is currently a Contributing Editor. He’s written for The New York Times, The Daily Beast, Heartland Signal, Belt Magazine, WisPolitics, and Milwaukee Record. He previously worked at Seattle Magazine, Seattle Business Magazine, the Milwaukee Business Journal, Milwaukee Magazine, and BizTimes Milwaukee. He’s won 23 Milwaukee Press Club Excellence in Journalism Awards. He’s on Twitter at @DanRShafer.

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This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.therecombobulationarea.news/subscribe

This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.therecombobulationarea.news/subscribe

The first Marquette University Law School Poll of 2026 was released this week, and this survey of political opinion of Wisconsin voters included a ton of information about our state’s ever-evolving political landscape.

Charles Franklin, the longtime executive director of the poll, joined The Recombobulation Area to talk about the results.

After the poll results release program, Franklin talked with the media about the poll, saying “It used to be that all politics was local. Now, all politics are national.”

All politics now being national is a major theme of this poll, where about two-thirds of voters are disconnected from major upcoming state elections and primaries, but have strong views on national political issues.

Franklin discussed this and many of the other results from this poll, including rapid shifts in public opinion on data center developments, how the details matter in questions on immigration and mass deportation, and so much more.

And if you missed it, my super-sized analysis of the latest poll is available here, with much available for free subscribers and the full breakdown available for paid subscribers.

The Recombobulation Area is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Dan Shafer is a journalist from Milwaukee who writes and publishes The Recombobulation Area. In 2024, he became the Political Editor of Civic Media. He’s written for The New York Times, The Daily Beast, Heartland Signal, Belt Magazine, WisPolitics, and Milwaukee Record. He previously worked at Seattle Magazine, Seattle Business Magazine, the Milwaukee Business Journal, Milwaukee Magazine, and BizTimes Milwaukee. He’s won 23 Milwaukee Press Club Excellence in Journalism Awards. He’s on Twitter at @DanRShafer.

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This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.therecombobulationarea.news/subscribe

Angela Lang is the co-executive director of Black Leaders Organizing for Communities (BLOC) and has been a longtime contributor at The Recombobulation Area, winning several Milwaukee Press Club awards for her work.

Angela and I haven’t had the chance to catch up in a while, so we got together for this podcast today to talk about a whole lot of things. We each brought three headlines or topics to talk about, so we could cover a lot of ground.

Topics discussed include:

* Tony Evers’ final State of the State address, and the governor’s legacy

* See: Wisconsin Watch: ‘As Tony Evers delivers his final State of the State, he remains crosswise with the GOP Legislature’

* The crisis around grocery stores closing in predominantly Black neighborhoods in Milwaukee (and whether “food apartheid” is the right way to describe this ongoing problem)

* See: MJS: ‘Milwaukee alders introduce resolution declaring food apartheid a public health emergency’

* The Republican-controlled state legislature advancing proposed amendments to the state constitution that are anti-DEI, and what those implications might mean

* The organizing win behind the Milwaukee Police Department’s decision to ban facial recognition software

* Democratic candidate for governor talking about ICE and immigration

* See: MJS: ‘Dem governor candidate Rodriguez says she ‘misspoke’ about aiding ICE’

The Recombobulation Area is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Dan Shafer is a journalist from Milwaukee who writes and publishes The Recombobulation Area. In 2024, he became the Political Editor of Civic Media. He’s written for The New York Times, The Daily Beast, Heartland Signal, Belt Magazine, WisPolitics, and Milwaukee Record. He previously worked at Seattle Magazine, Seattle Business Magazine, the Milwaukee Business Journal, Milwaukee Magazine, and BizTimes Milwaukee. He’s won 23 Milwaukee Press Club Excellence in Journalism Awards. He’s on Twitter at @DanRShafer.

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Mark Becker is the former chairman of the Brown County Republican Party, a party he has now left. In 2024, he was part of Wisconsin Republicans for Harris-Walz. He also hosts the radio show and podcast, “Rational Revolution,” which airs on Saturday and Sunday on the Civic Media network.

I always enjoy talking politics with Mark, who has a unique perspective and always has a lot to say. On this latest episode, we talked about looking ahead to the 2026 midterm elections, the race for governor (and the candidate forum I hosted in January), and whether or not Wisconsin is really a purple state.

We also talked about how this is Tony Evers’ last year as governor. He’ll be giving his final State of the State Address this week (Tuesday, Feb. 17, 7 p.m.). And in the state legislature, the Assembly and Senate are racing to their imaginary deadline to complete their session before going off to campaign for nine months (we’ve, uh, discussed this broken dynamic before). With all of that happening, is this the end of a certain era in Wisconsin state politics?

You can watch the full conversation, which features a final segment with Becker’s take on the Super Bowl halftime show, in the video here, or listen in the official podcast feed embedded below.

Becker also recently wrote this column here at The Recombobulation Area, about Alex Pretti, fellow alum of the Green Bay Boys Choir.

One more thing: Last Friday, I joined my friend Greg Bach on the final episode of “Civic Media Mid-Mornings,” which has been broadcasting in the “Matenaer On Air” 9-11 a.m. timeslot since Jane’s retirement in December. But don’t worry, Greg will soon be back on the airwaves, and you’ll hear more about what’s in store in the coming days.

Listen to that episode with yours truly here, or watch the video below, at about the midway point.

“Rational Revolution” video edited by Dominic Lee.

The Recombobulation Area is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Dan Shafer is a journalist from Milwaukee who writes and publishes The Recombobulation Area. In 2024, he became the Political Editor of Civic Media. He’s written for The New York Times, The Daily Beast, Heartland Signal, Belt Magazine, WisPolitics, and Milwaukee Record. He previously worked at Seattle Magazine, Seattle Business Magazine, the Milwaukee Business Journal, Milwaukee Magazine, and BizTimes Milwaukee. He’s won 23 Milwaukee Press Club Excellence in Journalism Awards. He’s on Twitter at @DanRShafer.

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This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.therecombobulationarea.news/subscribe

So, we have something a little different for you today. There is, of course, a ton happening in the political universe in Milwaukee and Wisconsin and beyond, but as anyone who follows me on social media knows, I am a huge, huge Milwaukee Bucks fan. And we just endured a roller coaster of a week as Bucks fans, with Giannis Antetokounmpo being in trade rumors all the way leading up to the NBA trade deadline. But after all that, Giannis is still a member of the Milwaukee Bucks.

Here to recombobulate with us after a discombobulating week is Milwaukee sports radio legend Bart Winkler.

Bart hosts the “Into the Winklerverse” podcast and you can find the latest episode here.

Oh, and thank you, Giannis. Please never leave us.

The Recombobulation Area is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Join our all new subscriber group chat!

Dan Shafer is a journalist from Milwaukee who writes and publishes The Recombobulation Area. In 2024, he became the Political Editor of Civic Media. He’s written for The New York Times, The Daily Beast, Heartland Signal, Belt Magazine, WisPolitics, and Milwaukee Record. He previously worked at Seattle Magazine, Seattle Business Magazine, the Milwaukee Business Journal, Milwaukee Magazine, and BizTimes Milwaukee. He’s won 23 Milwaukee Press Club Excellence in Journalism Awards. He’s on Twitter at @DanRShafer.

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This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.therecombobulationarea.news/subscribe

After 44 years behind the microphone, legendary Milwaukee broadcaster Jane Matenaer is retiring.

She made the announcement on the show she hosts, “Matenaer On Air,” on Monday, Nov. 3, alongside co-host Greg Bach and producer Calvin Butenhoff.

“I really want to take this opportunity to say: thank you,” she said, making the announcement. “Thank you for four decades of welcoming me into your homes and your cars and your garages and your barns or wherever you listen to the radio. Thank you so very much. I have been so fortunate for the last 44 years…You grieved with me, you celebrated with me, you gave me words of comfort and encouragement and congratulations and well wishes.”

Her final show as host of the program will be on Dec. 12. A parade of guests will be appearing on “Matenaer On Air” over the next several weeks to celebrate her amazing career.

Along with that celebration is a little reflection — on more than four decades in radio. To do that, I sat down with Jane at our Radio Park studios in Racine to talk about her remarkable journey. We covered everything from her first time behind a microphone, to the decades she spent hosting morning shows in Milwaukee, to the global (and beyond!) sensation that was “The Packerena,” to her last three years at Civic Media, which she calls “the proudest of my 40-plus year career.”

Watch the full interview above, or see our special feature story, “Jane says farewell,” here.

Video edited by Tony Zimmerman, engineered by Calvin Butenhoff.

Listen to “Matenaer On Air” every weekday from 9-11 a.m. on the Civic Media network, and find podcasts from every show here.

You can find the episode where she announces her retirement embedded below.

Share a message with Jane and with “Matenaer On Air” by emailing JaneSays@civicmedia.us.

The Recombobulation Area is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

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This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.therecombobulationarea.news/subscribe

Every week, David Nir of The Downballot and Aaron Rupar of Public Notice talk politics in a live show on Substack, and this week, the spotlight turned to Wisconsin, so I was invited to join and discuss the latest in our discombobulating politics.

Among those topics we discussed was Tony Evers’ looming decision over whether or not he is going to run for a third term as governor (and my opinion column on the matter), who might be running for Republicans, the post-Gerrymander elections happening in the Wisconsin State Legislature (and the chance for a trifecta in 2026), and what’s ahead for elections in the Wisconsin Supreme Court.

Be sure to subscribe to The Downballot and Public notice for all of their fine work.

Check out a clip from the conversation — on Evers and passing the torch, and reflecting on what happened with Joe Biden in 2024 — below:

Thank you Howie Noel, Ray Grosch, and many others for tuning into my live video with Aaron Rupar and David Nir! Join me for my next live video in the app.

ICYMI…

The Recombobulation Area is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Dan Shafer is a journalist from Milwaukee who writes and publishes The Recombobulation Area. In 2024, he became the Political Editor of Civic Media. He’s also written for The New York Times, The Daily Beast, Heartland Signal, Belt Magazine, WisPolitics, and Milwaukee Record. He previously worked at Seattle Magazine, Seattle Business Magazine, the Milwaukee Business Journal, Milwaukee Magazine, and BizTimes Milwaukee. He’s won 23 Milwaukee Press Club Excellence in Journalism Awards. He’s on Twitter at @DanRShafer.

Subscribe to The Recombobulation newsletter here and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at @ therecombobulationarea.

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This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.therecombobulationarea.news/subscribe

For the last six years, the Democratic Party of Wisconsin has been run by Ben Wikler. In that time as chair of the party, Democrats and Democratic-aligned candidates have won seven of ten statewide races, including flipping the balance of power on the Wisconsin Supreme Court. 

But in April, after yet another win in a pivotal Wisconsin Supreme Court race, Wikler announced he’d be stepping down as chair. The party will be electing its next chair in less than a month, at their upcoming convention on June 14 and 15 in Wisconsin Dells.

Wikler sat down with The Recombobulation Area for an extended interview on the latest news around Elon Musk and his political spending, Wikler’s run for DNC chair, and his surprise endorsement in the race for WisDems chair. We also talked about where the Democratic Party needs to go from here, how the party can do a better job communicating with voters, whether the Democrats have a credibility problem with regards to Joe Biden’s age, whether more people from Wisconsin should be working on campaigns, and much more.

You can also listen to the interview as a podcast on Civic Media here, on Apple Podcasts here, or embedded below from Spotify.

You can also watch this interview on YouTube.

Production and engineering by Aaron Zommers of Civic Media.

The Recombobulation Area is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Dan Shafer is a journalist from Milwaukee who writes and publishes The Recombobulation Area. In 2024, he became the Political Editor of Civic Media. He’s also written for The New York Times, The Daily Beast, Heartland Signal, Belt Magazine, WisPolitics, and Milwaukee Record. He previously worked at Seattle Magazine, Seattle Business Magazine, the Milwaukee Business Journal, Milwaukee Magazine, and BizTimes Milwaukee. He’s won 23 Milwaukee Press Club Excellence in Journalism Awards. He’s on Twitter at @DanRShafer.

Subscribe to The Recombobulation newsletter here and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at @ therecombobulationarea.

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Follow Dan Shafer on Twitter at @DanRShafer and at BlueSky at @danshafer.bsky.social.

This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.therecombobulationarea.news/subscribe

To learn more about this show and all of the programming across the Civic Media network, head over to https://civicmedia.us/shows to see the entire broadcast line up. Follow the network on Facebook, BlueSky, YouTube, X, and Instagram to keep up with Civic Media!

In the final half hour of the show, Emily Tseffos joins Dan and Angela to highlight the GOP's 'quiet war' on public education in Wisconsin, critiquing inadequate funding and legislative neglect. On a lighter note to end the show, Dan and Angela hold a spirited debate over the best Girl Scout cookies, revealing stark differences in their cookie preferences.

To learn more about this show and all of the programming across the Civic Media network, head over to https://civicmedia.us/shows to see the entire broadcast line up. Follow the network on Facebook, BlueSky, YouTube, X, and Instagram to keep up with Civic Media!

In the second half hour, Joe Zepecki joins Dan and Angela to discuss his candidacy for Democratic Party of Wisconsin Chair. Joe shares what his vision would be as chair, advocating for bold leadership and urgent reforms, particularly in immigration and communication strategies. Joe also urges Democrats to stand firm on their values.

To learn more about this show and all of the programming across the Civic Media network, head over to https://civicmedia.us/shows to see the entire broadcast line up. Follow the network on Facebook, BlueSky, YouTube, X, and Instagram to keep up with Civic Media!

There’s been a whole lot happening in recent months as Donald Trump has returned to office as president, and Elon Musk and the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has begun to take a wrecking ball to various federal agencies, making drastic cuts to the federal workforce. 

We’re beginning to see the effects of this at the state level here in Wisconsin, and recent reports have indicated that mass layoffs are happening at agencies within the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), which has a significant presence in the state. 

Former Lt. Gov. Mandela Barnes is helping tell the stories of real people directly impacted by these layoffs. 

“The moment calls for important conversations with people who’ve been impacted by devastating cuts by the Trump administration, aided by Elon Musk,” said Barnes. “I just wanted you to hear what is going on in the lives of everyday folks who are taking this challenge head on, but are not taking it lying down.”

One of those Wisconsinites impacted by these cuts is Katia Wanish, who until recently was a wetlands engineer at the Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS), which is part of the USDA. She shared her story with Barnes in this special edition of The Recombobulation Area podcast.

“I really feel like there’s a lack of dignity,” she said of the experience. “I just felt like I was completely erased from the system one day. I essentially received a blank email — nothing written in the message, nothing saying “Hi Katia” or anything like that — a blank email with an attachment telling me that I was terminated. Just that shock of not even feeling like I was a person in that moment, that they couldn’t take a second to write something in the body of that email really stunk. And I was terminated for performance. Which, I’m still trying to figure out why exactly. I received multiple awards in my time as an engineer; I was nominated for junior engineer of the year. It’s just kind of confusing why I was terminated for performance.”

She was treated, as Barnes put it, as a “pawn in a billionaire’s game.” 

Wanish had been hired to the position at the beginning of 2025, and was part of the round of DOGE firings on “probationary employees,” which included both new hires and people recently promoted — the latter, essentially, in her case.

In her conversation with Barnes, she talked about how this role she was hired for was a “dream job,” and that this experience has made her feel “helpless.”

Barnes said that’s the purpose of the way DOGE and the Trump administration are carrying out these actions, saying he “fundamentally disagrees” that there’s nothing you can do in these moments.

“I know you can feel like you’re powerless, but that’s the purpose of this all,” said Barnes. “It is to make you feel powerless. And if you submit — as many people feel that leaders in Congress are doing right now, submitting to the will — then there’s no hope for anybody. And so I just want you to understand that there is still power that you do have even if it seems like you don’t.”

Watch the full video above, or listen to the episode as a podcast here on Civic Media, or embedded below.

The Recombobulation Area is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Subscribe to The Recombobulation newsletter here and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at @ therecombobulationarea.

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This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.therecombobulationarea.news/subscribe

Former Lt. Gov. Mandela Barnes is helping tell the stories of real people directly impacted by these layoffs. Barnes sat down with Katia Wanish, who until recently was a wetlands engineer at the Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS), which is part of the USDA. She shared her story with Barnes in this special edition of The Recombobulation Area podcast.

Listen to the episode as a podcast, or watch the full video of their conversation here.

To learn more about The Recombobulation Area and all of the programming across the Civic Media network, head over to https://civicmedia.us/shows to see the entire broadcast line up. Follow the network on Facebook, BlueSky, YouTube, X, and Instagram to keep up with Civic Media!

Regular Recombobulation Area contributor and Marquette University professor Phil Rocco, who has written and researched extensively on the relationship between different levels of government, joins the podcast to help make sense of what happened and what might be next.

Let's recombobulate.

Subscribe to The Recombobulation Area.

Donald Trump was sworn into office as the 47th president last week, and with that inauguration came a flurry of activity, perhaps most notably on the issue of immigration. One report said Donald Trump characterized immigration as his No. 1 issue in his 2024 campaign, ahead of even the economy. 

So, we want to talk more about immigration. But part of having this conversation means separating some of the rhetoric from the reality, and talking about what is actually happening on this issue. Because on balance, this can all be pretty discombobulating. 

Joining us to help us recombobulate and make sense of the issues are our guests for this episode, Gabriela Parra and Kevin Layde, managing partners at the Layde & Parra immigration law firm. Angela Lang, executive director of Black Leaders Organizing for Communities, joins as co-host.

Topics discussed include:

• Changes on immigration policy, from Trump's first term, through the Biden presidency, to now
• Making sense of Trump's actions on immigration and birthright citizenship
• Legal immigration: How can people come to America and follow the rules (and why is that more complicated than it seems)?
• What should people know about ICE in Milwaukee?

Watch the full episode as a video here.

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What really happened in Wisconsin in the 2024 Presidential Election?

Besides discussing the closeness of the Presidential Election, Mark also asks Dan about the difference between the 3rd Congressional District and the 8th. What's next for Wisconsin in 2026? And how will Tony Evers do if he runs for re-election? Mark muses in the last segment about the CEO Assassin and his thoughts on the situation that is brewing.

Rational Revolution with Mark Becker is a part of the Civic Media radio network and airs Saturdays at 2 across the network. . Subscribe to the podcast to be sure not to miss out on a single episode! To learn more about the show and all of the programming across the Civic Media network, head over to https://civicmedia.us/shows to see the entire broadcast line up. Follow the show on Facebook and X to keep up with Rational Revolution with Mark Becker.

Greta Neubauer, the state representative from the 66th Assembly District and the Assembly's Democratic Minority Leader, joined The Recombobulation Area podcast for a discussion on the 2024 election and a look ahead to what's to come in state government in 2025.

In August, Neubauer predicted that Democrats would win 52 seats. They ended up winning 45. 

“We are always going to be ambitious,” said Neubauer. “I think we had a real shot in all of those 52 seats. We had a number of places where we came up just short, really close, in some really close elections — in the Milwaukee suburbs, in Green Bay — and those are places where we’ll be competing in future years. And so, we are really pleased that, in a tough year for Democrats, we were able to pick up 10 seats. We were able to narrow the margins quite a bit. We have five more to go to get that majority.”

In our conversation, we also discussed some of the reflecting that Democrats are doing after this election, the issue of messaging on issues and priorities, what she learned in the first election under new and more competitive maps, the power of incumbency in Wisconsin elections, immigration policy, priorities for 2025, what to expect with a legislature with smaller majorities, and more. 

Looking ahead to 2025, Neubauer said “there’s going to be a lot more room for bipartisan work” with smaller Republican majorities in 2025. She said she is hopeful for compromise on issues like education funding and tax policy.

“Of course, Republicans are out the gate talking about another tax cut,” she said. “We’re open to that, but it has to be focused on helping those people who are having a difficult time make ends meet. It can’t be focused on more giveaways to the rich and to big corporations like we’ve seen from our Republican colleagues in the past.”

Listen here, or at The Recombobulation Area.

For the Civic Media special broadcast, Making Your Vote Count 2024, I talked to Scott Krug, a Republican state representative from Nekoosa who currently serves as Chair of the Assembly Committee on Campaigns and Elections, and Paulina Gutierrez, the newly appointed director of the Milwaukee Elections Commission. 

Clips from both of those interviews appear in the special broadcast, and also in bonus content at The Recombobulation Area, where I produced a segment breaking down the late night ballot dump that occurs in Milwaukee. Find that segment here.

In addition, we’re publishing both of those interviews in their entirety here, as a podcast. First, you’ll hear from representative Krug, and then from director Gutierrez. 

Be sure to make your voice heard and vote by Nov. 5. Let’s recombobulate. 

At Civic Media, we put together a special broadcast called “Making Your Vote Count 2024” and as part of that show, we worked with election officials and leaders from both parties to talk about top issues, address misinformation about voting, and much more. 

That broadcast airs live at 6 p.m., Tuesday, Oct. 22, across the Civic Media network. It will be available as a video and podcast online after it airs. Find more information about the show here.

Here at The Recombobulation Area, we’re bringing you BONUS CONTENT from this broadcast to address one of the biggest sources of election misinformation in recent years in Wisconsin — the late night “ballot dump” coming from the city of Milwaukee.

Listen here to our 10-minute audio segment breaking down what’s happening when Milwaukee reports results late into the night, the state legislature’s bipartisan efforts to address the perception problem surrounding this reporting, and what to expect on election night on Nov. 5 (and possibly into Nov. 6). 

This segment features interviews with Republican State Rep. Scott Krug, who serves as the Chair of the Assembly’s Committee on Campaigns and Elections, and with Paulina Gutierrez, the newly appointed director of the Milwaukee Elections Commission, and is narrated by yours truly. 

Listen to the segment as a podcast here. You can also see a full transcript of this segment below. 

One of the most pervasive conspiracy theories surrounding Wisconsin’s elections in recent years has involved what’s often been referred to as a late night “ballot dump.” 

What this has mostly referred to is the reporting of election results from the city of Milwaukee. More specifically, this is about the reporting of election results from absentee ballots in the city of Milwaukee.

Confusion and accusations of fraudulent behavior over this “ballot dump” or “ballot drop” has been around for a while, but reached new heights after the 2020 presidential election. Conspiracy theories about this have raged on in the years since, often in false or misleading ways on social media. Visually, people can see red and blue lines going up concurrently along an arc as votes are tabulated, and then there’s a point where the blue line indicating votes for Joe Biden goes vertical and overtakes the red line for Donald Trump. This is the “ballot dump.”

What’s happening here is actually quite simple. It’s the city of Milwaukee reporting the results of all of its absentee ballots, all at once, in accordance with state law. In the 2020 election, because of the larger number of absentee ballots that were used during the covid-19 pandemic, these results were not counted and reported until after 3 a.m. local time. 

Milwaukee is the most populous city in Wisconsin by a significant margin, with more than 550,000 residents. It has nearly twice the population of Madison, the second largest city, and therefore, there are a whole lot of votes to count there. Milwaukee uses a process called “Central Count” where all of the ballots are tabulated and counted all in one location. But because of decisions made by lawmakers at the state capitol in Madison, election workers at Central Count in Milwaukee are not allowed to begin counting those absentee ballots until the morning of Election Day. This is not how things work in most states. 

Here’s how Paulina Gutierrez, the new executive director of the Milwaukee Elections Commission, describes the process:

“So basically what happens is all of those absentee ballots — the ones that go by mail, the ones that go to the long term facility, the ones that are used to vote at our early voting centers – all get collected into our operation center, where they are stored in our secure ballot room. And in that room we have specially trained staff who make sure that the ballot is legitimate, make sure that it's eligible. And then we start to sort them by ward and by last name, alphabetized by last name. We get them all organized as much as we can. We are one of only two states in the country that are not allowed to pre-process or open or touch the ballot until 7 a.m. on election day. So when we walk into our central count, we have all of the absentee ballots that have been coming to us since mid-September. And so for the presidential, it's tens of thousands of ballots, and we cannot touch them until Election Day.”

So, because of its sheer size, Milwaukee will almost certainly be the last jurisdiction to report its results on election night in Wisconsin. The city of Green Bay also uses central count, as do a few dozen other municipalities across the state and the results from absentee ballots in those communities are also reported all at once. 

And if you’re wondering, the other state where election workers are not allowed to pre-process those absentee ballots that Gutierrez was referring to is Pennsylvania. Of course, another closely contested swing state. That’s another factor to be aware of on election night as results are reported. 

Other states don’t have that problem. Florida is one such state. Following reforms put in place after the 2000 election, Florida is one of the fastest states in the nation to report its results. And in an effort to address the issue of these late night ballot dumps, one Republican member of the State Assembly — Scott Krug — spent some time in Florida with the people who run their elections to learn about how the process works there. Here’s what he told me. 

“So when an absentee ballot comes in in the state of Florida, it is opened, it's processed, it's prepared, it's stored in the machine. The voter gets a ballot number. So basically, by the time you hit 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock, eastern standard time in Florida, you've got all the early votes processed and tallied and ready to be released for results. And the in person vote is not very far behind it. So a state that's got three or four times the voting population that Wisconsin does, it's in the books, the elections in bed by midnight, right? I mean, it just kind of seemed like a gold standard after what we saw in 2020 come out of Milwaukee. You know, obviously, it was the covid election — tons and tons of absentee ballots slowed down the process till about three o'clock in the morning. A lot of people had gone to bed, you know, 11, 12, one o'clock with one guy leading. We wake up the next morning, the other guy took the lead, and an explosion occurs in conspiracy theories.”

Krug took over as Chair of the Assembly Committee on Campaigns and Elections in 2023, and sought to address this in a bipartisan way, working with the ranking Democrat on the Committee, and with members of both parties in the Assembly and Senate. Krug said 90% of the problems we face in elections in Wisconsin are from this perception surrounding these late night ballot dumps and he made addressing this perception problem a top priority. So, the bill that was introduced in 2023, Assembly Bill 567, would have allowed clerks to process absentee ballots the Monday before Election Day.

That bill eventually passed unanimously out of committee and passed in the Assembly on a voice vote in late November of 2023. The governor signaled that he would sign it if that was the bill that reached his desk. But it never got there. Even though it was crafted in a bipartisan manner, passed overwhelmingly in the Assembly with bipartisan votes, and became the rare bill that had the support of Republican Assembly Speaker Robin Vos and Democratic Governor Tony Evers, the bill stalled in the State Senate. The Senate’s elections committee, chaired by Republican Dan Knodl, never allowed a vote on the bill. Krug said there were some political reasons that the bill might not have passed, but that’s a story for another time (and you can listen to our full conversation as a separate podcast). But here’s what Krug said about where this bill ended for this session when it finished this past spring.

“So this is a very long process, and in the end, unfortunately, didn't get through the State Senate. But I think we kind of laid the groundwork really well for what an early processing ballot could be. And I think, you know, in the future, it's probably going to be a little bit more than a Monday process that we can get to the point where, maybe closer to what Florida and 40 some other states do, where they process them a little bit earlier even than Monday. Whereas if an absentee ballot comes in, we open it, secure it, store it in the machine, everybody knows it's safe and secure. I think the only thing that's going to get us to that point, though, is an election that is non controversial. So we're hoping, whichever way this one goes, it'll be a one or 2% difference to 10,000 vote difference. So that'll help build some trust in that process, too.”

Meanwhile in Milwaukee, because the Wisconsin State Legislature did not make this change in the last four years, Gutierrez and the Milwaukee Elections Commission are planning for another late night. She said they have scaled up their staff from between 70 and 90 people for a typical election to about 300 people for this year, and they will have 13 high speed tabulator machines put to use. But she still thinks that it will again be after midnight when these results are ultimately reported. I asked her what her expectations are for the number of absentee ballots cast in Milwaukee this year, and what time they might be reported on election night. Here's what she said. 

“It's hard to say. I am a risk averse person, so it's hard for me to estimate, especially being newly appointed. However, what I can tell you is that prior to 2020, absentee voting was there, it's been trending upward, right? And then we had the giant blip, and during the pandemic, and the numbers have come down, but there's, there's still trending upward. And so based upon what we're seeing now, we're making a high estimate of about 80,000 ballots for this election. So you know that the governor's race was about 66,000 and the pandemic presidential was about 176,000 we're kind of doing it in the middle.”

So on Nov. 5, or into the wee hours on Nov. 6, you should know two things. First, you should know that the results from tens of thousands of absentee ballots from Milwaukee will be reported all at once. This is the process that state lawmakers have allowed for, election workers will begin counting the ballots at 7 a.m. on Election Day, and the results will be reported once all the votes are counted. Second, you should know that the Wisconsin State Legislature had every opportunity to reform this process over the last four years and even passed a bipartisan bill through the Assembly to do so about a year ago, but it did not pass and become law because of a few Republicans in the State Senate. 

So now, we’re back to the same process we had four years ago. Hopefully, for this year, there will be a better understanding of how this all works and there won’t be as many conspiracy-laden accusations leveled at the city of Milwaukee and on election workers who are just doing their job in accordance with state law. And for future years, let’s hope we can build on the level of bipartisan cooperation established, and get something done to improve this process. But for now, we can expect another late night of reporting election results from absentee ballots in the city of Milwaukee. 

The Marquette University Law School Poll is the gold standard poll for elections and public policy in the state of Wisconsin, and the latest poll was released just yesterday.

You can find the full results here and the full breakdown at The Recombobulation Area here.

After every new poll in this election year, poll director Charles Franklin is joining Dan Shafer for a conversation about the latest results.

Among topics discussed:

• Harris vs. Trump
• The importance of enthusiasm
• How Marquette measures the likelihood that people will vote
• The first round of polling on Tim Walz
• The Hovde-Baldwin race

This event was called the “Reverse Coattails Roundtable”, and featured several state legislative leaders from swing states, including Sen. Mallory McMorrow from Michigan, State Rep. Sam Park from Georgia, and Greta Neubauer, the Democratic leader in the Wisconsin State Assembly.

After the event, I had the chance to sit down for a conversation with Neubauer. We talked about reverse coattails, and how races at the bottom of the ticket might help candidates at the top. We talked about the changing enthusiasm for Democrats, with Kamala Harris as the nominee, and we talked about Tim Walz and what he and Democrats have been able to do with a one-seat legislative majority in Minnesota. We also talked about new maps, and the chances for Democrats to win the majority in the Assembly. She thinks it can happen. She even predicted they’d win 52 seats. 

We also talked about Republicans like Robin Vos advancing more constitutional amendment referendums. We talked about what legislative Democrats have done in Wisconsin to protect the governor’s veto. We talked about a lot more, too.

I hope you enjoy this conversation with Democratic Assembly Leader, Greta Neubauer. 

Joining us to talk about this race is Anthony Chergosky, political science professor at University of Wisconsin - La Crosse.

We discussed the big picture of the campaign, the geographic divide in the race, some bad blood surfacing in the final weeks before the primary, and more.

You can also read the column I wrote about the experience here.

After each new poll in 2024, we’re going to be sitting down with Charles Franklin, executive director of the (top ranked!) Marquette University Law School Poll, to discuss the results.

For this podcast, Franklin and I sat down to discuss the results from the new poll (available in full here!), the presidential race between Joe Biden and Donald Trump in this incredibly important battleground state, state-level polling on the governor, legislature and state Supreme Court, and much more.

A couple months ago, Omar Shaikh and I got in a bit of a disagreement on Twitter. So, this week, we got together at 3rd Street Market Hall for a one-on-one interview to talk about the “Beer District” concept.

Listen to our conversation, and read more about it here.

The issue of marijuana legalization has come into focus in Wisconsin as of late, as many of our neighboring states have been implementing new recreational legalization policies. Democrats in Wisconsin have repeatedly proposed legalization efforts, only for them to stall in the Republican-controlled Wisconsin State Legislature. 

One of those Democrats who has championed this issue for years is State Senator Melissa Agard of Madison. I interviewed here about the issue for a podcast here at The Recombobulation Area.

“The most dangerous thing about weed in Wisconsin is that it's illegal,” said Agard. “And by having a thoughtful, comprehensive policy that doesn't pick winners and losers in our state, we will be more safe, more prosperous, and people's personal liberties will be honored in a more true way.”